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[17-09]

Hi All,
Does anyone have any detailed photos of the Type 21 area in front of the mainmast/funnel please? I have the Jecobin drawings and some photos but cannot work out how the area by the aft compass? platform actually looks, it is a complicated area and has an elevated platform with a screen and railings, braced above some ventilators I believe. I took some pics of Tippu Sultan some time ago but she seems to be differently configurated than HMS Active. Many thanks...17-09

[Allnightin]

The attached are the best I can find at the moment for the T21 Emergency Control Position (ECP) at the moment, all of Active.  I remember it as a fairly cluttered (especially when the SCOT satellite comms were embarked) and noisy area.  One solution might be to have a generous quantity of fenders stowed there as in the two shots from the beam as they will cover any cable and pipework on the decking .

[17-09]

Hi Allnightin,
Thanks for these they will compliment the shots I already have, Nice also to know it's the Emergency Control Position. I have some time before I start the construction of this feature so continue to gather information. My mainmast in the drawings is shorter than those in your photos, does that make mine an earlier version? Any other pics would be appreciated.
 Thanks again
17-09

[Allnightin]

Have you decided what date the model of  Active should represent?  The changed main mast, along with several other modifications were carried out in the mid 1980s on all the surviving T21s after the Falklands in 1982.  The other changes were plating in the open sections either side of the hangar, adding a strengthening girder each side of the hull at 1 Deck level, adding 2 20mm Oerlikons on the Flight Deck and fitting Type 670 ECM on each side aft of the SCOT domes in at least some ships but can't remember if Active was one of them.

[17-09]

Hi Allnightin,
 Thanks again for your reply, I am building Active from the Jecobin plans which I believe are for the early version of the T21's.
 I bought the hull minus the superstructure and am scratch building it from the plans that I have. It has no strengthening plates and any other of the mods you mention so must be the early version. she is at 1/72 so quite a large model, the hull has been built with slightly extra draft, I know they are a bit unstable if the superstructure is built heavy. I have a friend with a 1/64th version which is very unstable as the superstructure has been moulded in fibreglass which is very heavy.
 Thanks for your help.
  Alan 17-09

[mudway]

Does this help?

[17-09]

Hi Mudway,
That is a really useful shot, many thanks, it shows details that I had not seen before, I see it's also HMS Active, perfect !
cheeky, but if you have more like that I would love to see them.
 Regards
 Alan 17-09

[mudway]

I'll do some scanning of it in parts, comes from a Clive Taylor photo probably the 1977 Review.

[17-09]

Thanks again Mudway for your time and effort to help,
I was at the Fleet Review in 1977 but sitting on a beach in Gosport watching it.
 Many thanks
 Alan 17-09

[Allnightin]

The paintwork on that last shot certainly looks to be in a well above average condition!  Also the complete lack of any clutter or loose gear on the upper deck so provides a useful reference on which to build.


Have you a source for 1/72nd fittings?

[17-09]

Hi Allnightin,
 Yes she does look shipshape and with the Union Jack flying, she is certainly at the fleet review. I have spotted that Mudways photo has Active on the JPEG files but she is F174 which is HMS Alacrity. Still fantastic information which is appreciated. I am scratch building the bridge at the moment and have noticed the bridge roof and windows have an angle down toward the bow when viewed from the side, the drawings show this but it looked wrong when constructing it, looking at some side views I have, it does seem to be correct, however, would you know anything about this? I have always used the adage, "if it looks right, it probably is" but who am I to argue with the well respected plans from Jecobin?
I have a few 1/72nd parts on order from Fleetscale, already have the funnel moulding.
Regards again
 Alan 17-09
 

[Allnightin]

Virtually every RN ship has downward sloping bridge windows to avoid reflections.  Here are a couple of shots taken onboard Alacrity in 1988/9 which hopefully show this better.  Not sure what you mean about the roof sloping - it was pretty well flat and level when I went on it.

[17-09]

Hi Allnightin,
I may of confused what I was trying to describe, yes I agree with the window downward angles reducing reflections, I have studied the drawing again and believe it is the sheer of the main deck that makes the bridge look out of alignment. The perpendicular frames in side elevation are obviously at an angle in relation to the sheer of the main deck. The sheer on the hull I have and which I am scratch building the superstructure to, is probably not quite as much as the drawing which is throwing out my measurements. I can adjust this now and if "it looks right it probably is" will apply
Did you serve on T21's?
 Regards
 Alan  17-09

[Allnightin]

Hi Alan


Agreed that the upward sweep of the foc'sle and the side decks can be deceptive and if your 1/72nd hull is like the one I have in 1/96th where you have to build the sides up from main deck level it will need some care to get the sheer line correct but definitely worth giving it a lot of attention early on as it will not be easy to correct later.


I spent most of my time afloat in (or on for Active)  T21s - Active, Ambuscade and Alacrity mainly.  They were all very similar inside and  out.

[17-09]

Hi Allnightin,
So your just the one to ask about the details of T21's then. I won't overdo it, I promise!
I should have taken detailed photographs of them when I had a chance, a digital camera was almost unheard of in those early days, I remember sending rolls of film to a relation to take shots of his ship HMS Anglesey when I was building her. Took a few of Tippu Sultan when she was at the 2005 Trafalgar celebrations in Pompey but they were differently configured from the RN even then.
 Thanks  Alan 17-09
 

[Allnightin]

Hi Alan


I took a lot of onboard photos in 88/89 while in Alacrity (but missed the ECP) as I wanted detail info for the 1/96th model ( still to be finished ) and also have a fair bit I have collected over the years on other T21s and generally available at the time.  Did you know that you can look through all the old Navy News magazines on line at


https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-latest-activity/navy-news/archive

That may give you some help too although the pictures in the older issues are a bit blurred at times.

Feel free to pm me if you have more specific wants.

Incidentally, when I was with Active in 1978 I am fairly sure that she had a Wasp helo rather than a Lynx - have you allowed for that if building her as first commissioned?

[mudway]

Some more of Alacrity.


Look at all those anti slip treads on her.

[17-09]

Hi Mudway,
Thanks for the pictures, it is surprising how much information is contained in photos such as these. I can see the anti slip treads in the pictures and I assume Active would have been similar as Allnightin says they were all very much the same. I can already see some minor differences, the extended deck forward over the triangular housing aft by the ships boats is not so pronounced as in Active, what is the purpose of this triangular shaped construction? Also noted how far the Exocet deflectors on the bridge front go to the deck edge which needed the extra piece to be added to the hull for access. All these questions but it must bring back memories for you guys who served on them.
VMT Alan 17-09

[Allnightin]

the triangular housing aft by the ships boats is not so pronounced as in Active, what is the purpose of this triangular shaped construction?

I think that is part of the air intake system for the Tyne cruising engines.

[frogman3]

HI ARE YOU thinkin of building a type 21 ? with all these pics if you are be warned  they are a very unstable ship an need a good underside counter balance wheight as i have had an built the hydrafirfibe 1/64 scale HMS AMAZON F169 an it was terrible until the above mention fitted same as my freinds as he build HMS AVENGER with the same effect  on the water an i built as light as possible on the top S/S
chris

[GG]

Humm...!!!


I built a 1/144 scale model of HMS Ambuscade sometime ago, still sail it occasionally and never had a problem with stability.
There again, the hull and superstructure were built from balsa sheets, light but more than strong enough.  But I didn't cover it with metal/ resin fittings and made sure the internal ballast was as low as possible.  Which meant it could survive my stability test of rolling it until water was at the edge of the deck, release and it springs back upright!
Glynn Guest 

[frogman3]

Humm...!!!


I built a 1/144 scale model of HMS Ambuscade sometime ago, still sail it occasionally and never had a problem with stability.
There again, the hull and superstructure were built from balsa sheets, light but more than strong enough.  But I didn't cover it with metal/ resin fittings and made sure the internal ballast was as low as possible.  Which meant it could survive my stability test of rolling it until water was at the edge of the deck, release and it springs back upright!
Glynn Guest

HI Glynn oh 1/144 scale must have been small how big was it in lenght an beam ?
chris

[GG]

frogman3


Not at home at the moment so I can't get a tape measure out to measure the model.  But the length and beam must be 1/144th of the full-size vessels.


Glynn Guest

[Rob47]

Glynn going on ful size and converting I would say a length of 32" and beam of 3.5"
Bob

[17-09]

Hi All
This thread has provoked some thought on the T21 regarding stability generally, the info sent to me with the superb photos has enabled the build to progress well however the question of stability has been in the back of my mind for a while now. I am not sure why the T21 as a model seems to be unstable but I do have a friend who has a 1/64th Hydra fibre one that was also very unstable, my 1/64^th Leander from the same stable is absolutely fine and rock solid. I tend to blame the superstructure on the T21 as it has a very tall foremast with a lot of top hamper and as the Hydra fibre one has a robust fibreglass superstructure including the mast which is also moulded in a rather heavy layup, it does make her top heavy. The answer is of course is to build all upper works as light as possible, I am using balsa for the main structure clad in thin plasticard, this appears to be working well as, so far, it is fairly light. Most warships are unstable in model form if constructed with heavy materials for the superstructure, thanks for pointing this out to all builders of T21’s especially. Glynn's models do tend to be constructed with a hull form that appears to add a bit of extra draught which certainly helps with stability.
Regards 17-09 Alan....