Topic: Electronic controllers in Steam (Read 6089 times)

Dainesh · « **on:** August 09, 2021, 02:52:50 pm »

Hi Gents,

What do you think, what sort of electronic controller would be useful for a steam engine?

I know there was the Cheddar controller, but .....

Mark T · « **Reply #1 on:** August 09, 2021, 04:06:11 pm »

Hi - I'm not sure that its either needed or wanted by the type of modeller that makes steam boats. I looked into the possibility of this when I built my steam Anteo and decided the only benefit would be something that reduced the burn once the boiler pressure had been achieved.

For this purpose I used a Forrester gas regulator which is mechanical and works great.

I think the only thing that could maybe sway me is if there was a way of controlling the output of a boiler water pump that calculated the most efficient boiler water refill against the heat required to keep the boat going for longer. That would save a lot of experiments in the bath!

Bunkerbarge · « **Reply #2 on:** August 09, 2021, 07:24:18 pm »

Refer to Model Boats Magazine July 2021, Vol.71 No. 848, page 56 where exactly the unit you are asking about is reviewed.

Dainesh · « **Reply #3 on:** August 10, 2021, 09:12:32 am »

Hi,

Do you think asbout this?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324742920176?hash=item4b9c2fb7f0:g:ctIAAOSw~h9hDDtT

Bunkerbarge · « **Reply #4 on:** August 10, 2021, 12:17:26 pm »

That is the same unit and the article I was referring to. You will find it interesting reading the article.

Dainesh · « **Reply #5 on:** August 10, 2021, 12:25:41 pm »

Hi Bunkerbarge,

I know that article and ABC unit, I'm the designer :).

I was just interested in are any other controller exist, or any other aspect of controling a stem engine with an eletronic solution.
Just collecting ideas what else can I design next time, or can be useful for you :)

Kind Regards
Denes Design

KNO3 · « **Reply #6 on:** August 27, 2021, 09:59:20 am »

Looks like the Denes unit is out of stock? Does it come with water gauge sensor and pressure sensor included?

In terms of usefulness, I would like to see a unit that combines monitoring the water level (to operate the bypass valve and an alarm) with boiler pressure / gas burner automatic control. But it should include all sensors.

KNO3 · « **Reply #7 on:** August 27, 2021, 10:05:57 am »

Does anybody have the entire article of which one page is shown in the Ebay listing of the Denes Design controller?

Dainesh · « **Reply #8 on:** August 27, 2021, 10:11:53 am »

Dear Gents,

I'm working on other projects.
I didn't thought that I will run out of the ABCs so quickly.
I already ordered some more boards, and will build some new units ASAP.
I will let you know when the next lot is ready.

Denes

Dainesh · « **Reply #9 on:** September 10, 2021, 05:22:21 pm »

Dear Gents,

The new ABC units are almost ready, I'm just waiting for the labels.
I stick them on and I will put them on the ebay again.

Denes

Dainesh · « **Reply #10 on:** November 09, 2021, 11:50:47 am »

Dear Gents,

Good news.
We finished the validation of the ABC unit, Mr Richard Simpson helped me a lot.

During the validation we recognized an issue, so I will supply the pressure sensor with the ABC units, that is the reason why the price will be higher, but this let me to check all aspects of the units.

I will put together a batch of units and I will place them on ebay.

Next to the ABC I developed other products.
One of them is in Richards model and in this thread you can find a video about it. [size=78%]https://www.modelboats.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=174114&p=10[/size]
It is controlling the Throttle servo and the Forward/Reverse servos.
I will anounce it a little bit later, where to buy etc..

Denes Design

Circlip · « **Reply #11 on:** November 10, 2021, 11:15:06 am »

By Jove, our Dick strikes again, have you convinced Denes to supply a Yorkshire version???

Regards Ian.

Dainesh · « **Reply #12 on:** November 10, 2021, 11:59:25 am »

Dear Gents,

Would any of you interestedin a side glass sensor for the old Cheddar ABC?

My friend has a couple of them but his original sensors are dead.
I'm thinking on to build a gauge sensor for him, with water debouncer system on it.

If you would interested on them I would create a product from them later on.
The connection to the ABC unit would be same as the old one.

What do you think?

KNO3 · « **Reply #13 on:** November 10, 2021, 06:56:26 pm »

I think it is a good idea to offer the system with all necessary sensors (maybe as options). Most of us wouldn't know where to buy them otherwise.

What is the water debouncer system you mentioned in relation to the water gauge sensor for Cheddar ABC?

Bunkerbarge · « **Reply #14 on:** November 10, 2021, 07:23:50 pm »

There is an adjustable delay in the operation of the water valve when it reads a change in water level. This prevents the valve from operating instantaneously as the level in the glass bounces up and down with the boat's movement.

The sensor created for the Cheddar ABC unit has this feature built into it.

KNO3 · « **Reply #15 on:** November 10, 2021, 07:35:14 pm »

Thanks, sounds like a very useful feature. Did the original Cheddar sensor also have it?

Bunkerbarge · « **Reply #16 on:** November 10, 2021, 10:35:34 pm »

No it didn't, the additional electronics are built into the sensor head to add the function to the existing Cheddar ABC.

DBS88 · « **Reply #17 on:** November 12, 2021, 09:36:39 am »

A replacement sensor for the cheddar system would be both welcome and useful. I have a more than one cheddar ABC system and have experienced a fault with the sensor. The sensor works exactly as it should when cold, however when hot, it fails, then when cold works perfectly. Now it is possible for someone who knows electronics to source replacement light emitters and receivers and to then muck about setting it up so the light passes through a slot onto the sensor when no water is present and does not reach the sensor when water is present, due to the way water bends light. So a sensor that also has electronics on board to stop false readings or bouncing would be welcome and `I for one would definitely buy at least one

Bunkerbarge · « **Reply #18 on:** November 12, 2021, 09:42:55 am »

Something else that I haven't mentioned yet is the fact that the new sensor produced by Denes Designs both for its own ABC and the sensor designed to replace the Cheddar one have temperature compensation built into the unit.

DBS88 · « **Reply #19 on:** November 12, 2021, 10:03:30 am »

A friend and electronics wiz at the boat club I belong to took the time and trouble to remake my faulty sensor for which I am grateful, it was an interesting exercise for him, so have attached photo of it under going tests and calibration. I have also attached a photo of a trial version of the replacement sensor from Denes that is seen here working perfectly on a Cheddar Proteus set up. The sensor feels more robust than the original and has been said has both temperature compensation and debouncing added via the electronics, Denes has both listened to what is needed and has worked hard to develop and produce it.

Bunkerbarge · « **Reply #20 on:** November 12, 2021, 12:28:31 pm »

A full review is in Model Boats Magazine July 2021 edition.

DBS88 · « **Reply #21 on:** November 12, 2021, 08:09:36 pm »

Here is a link to a video of the replacement sensor being tested. You will notice two optical sensors, the top one is the replacement sensor, which is live and on test, the bottom one is a working original sensor, all `I did was swap the wires over into the control box when `I switched between the two. I was also setting up the bypass valve from the pump for flow rates. The video shows the sensor operating the water valve to allow water into the boiler rather than just flowing round a loop. The boiler pressure is also being regulated by the Cheddar ABC system. The proteus boiler is set at 60 psi and proteus engine is running at a reasonable speed. After a bit of balancing the engine ran faster with the boiler keeping at 60 psi while water is pumped into the boiler. https://youtu.be/WChbnop659c
Hope this is helpful

KNO3 · « **Reply #22 on:** November 13, 2021, 07:55:27 am »

Thanks for the video Dave! Looks like it works very well.

Dainesh · « **Reply #23 on:** November 13, 2021, 06:46:26 pm »

Hi,

Dear Dave and Bunkerbarge, thank you for the explanation.
So sorry for the late answer, I had a smaller Covid issue, but the whole family is OK by now.

I built only 3 units and the first of them is at Mr Richard Simpson for test, the second one got to Dave (this is which you can see on the youtube video), the third one is at Denmark for test.

Water bouncing: when the water in the glass tube going up and down quickly (above and below the sensor level), and this causing the water servo unnecessary opening and closing.

The connection of the sensor will be the same as the old Cheddar sensor had
Red - connection 3 (+Water Gauge Sensor)
Blue - connection 5 (Water Gauge Level Sensor)
Black - connection 4 (-Water Gauge Sensor)

This unit makes a bit more advanced the Old Cheddar ABC.
Extra things:
1. Water bouncing protection
2. As the temperature goes up the sensor is able to compensate the measured value changes, at high temperature the chance of the missreading is very very small.
3. Tested up to 150 degress celsius

If you interested in I will build some units together, and I hope you will like it.

KNO3 · « **Reply #24 on:** November 13, 2021, 11:52:53 pm »

Hello, I'm interested.

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Author Topic: Electronic controllers in Steam (Read 6089 times)

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