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[dillinger 04]

Hello




Does anyone know of a good option to try in lead-free solder that flows close to 60/40 lead solder
 lower temperature that adheres well to copper, and brass .  Any help would be appreciated

[Circlip]

Nowt wrong with  60/40. DON'T be coaxed to the dark side, just don't suck the finished job. Leadless gives a brittle joint.


  Regards  Ian.

[dillinger 04]

Hello


Ian thank you for the information appreciated I was prepared for criticism when I thought of asking on here
as I am sure quite a few are big fans of the leaded solder understand. I am trying to build a small diaphragm type steam boat that
could used in a bathtub or swimming pool so my concerns are of the lead in the solder? Brittle joint for lead-free you speak from experience I take it
but there most be some lower temp lead free solders that do not cause brittle joints ? how far as newer formulated solders come along these days .

[roycv]

Hi another approach is to have fan type filter made for the job which sucks in the 'smoke' and puts it through a filter.

 I was making rather a lot of circuit bords at home and had one of these close to the work area and it took the fumes away.  Not part of avoiding the use of solder, but stops it from getting into your body.

regards
Roy

[Circlip]

Sadly, the (anti)social do gooders seem intent on treating every one as having the inability to use what used to be called common sense. Having said that, the gene pool seems to have become a damp patch in many cases. Experience of brittle joints? There must be thousands of electrical goods in the local dump that would spark back into life with a few applications of 60/40.


 As an aside, the Military don't believe they should change from the 'Old' stuff.


  Sounds like (sic) you're building a Pop Pop boat so resilience is important.


  Regards   Ian.

[dillinger 04]

Yes a pop pop steam boat plans are for a double pop pop engine


My brother has some lead free that says 4% silver along with copper and tin. I thought of using the ultimate lower temp silver solder but am afraid
of burning up the shim stock made diaphragm silver you must use high heat of course bright red vs softer standard plumbers solder. Or anyone know how to solder thin gauge sheet brass with silver solder ? tips or tricks from the experts or is it quite difficult to do . 

[Geoff]

To be honest I've always found the lead free solder to be far worse than leaded solder. At one time it was almost impossible to purchase leaded solder but it seems to have made a comeback as its wetting properties (at least to me) are far superior and the joints better, I suspect leadfree solder is showing its weaknesses!


I doubt there is any real danger from using leaded solder unless its your job where its slightly hazardous nature would be an issue for long exposure. For the modelmaker I think its quite harmless enough.




Cheers


Geoff

[tonyH]

The one with 5% silver is probably the same as Cupalloy sell. If you look on David's Riva thread he's tried it for the wheel. Melting should be about 320 which is a bit more than 60/40 but not unduly.
Tony

[dillinger 04]

Hello TonyH


Thank you for responding to my post appreciated  5% silver which one from Cup alloy are you referring to, and are you referring to celsius at 320 as the one my brother has Dutch boy silver says 440 F  Thanks

[tonyH]

I reckon what he's got is the 2/36/62 "free flowing silver soft solder" which goes at 180/190C, possibly a bit more silver which would up the melt. In fact there's another at 221C. 440F equates to about 230C. Have a look through these if anything fits what you want (You'll have to scroll down towards the bottom of the page) https://www.cupalloys.co.uk/for-model-engineers
Tony

[RST]

We're talking "pop-pop" boats here.? Struggling to understand what's wrong with the principle of putting somehing togeher and setting it off in the bath or the sink with a window open?

[Circlip]

Probably that in the land of litigation (LOL) any excuse for the insurance legal eagles to wriggle out of a claim for whatever, Lead is poisonous. 


  Regards  Ian.

[JimG]

The amount of lead that might leach out of the solder in use would be minute, normal testing would probably fail to detect any. Most tapwater is treated to neutralise any acidity to stop lead leaching from old lead pipes. There is a much greater danger from lead still in the environment from when leaded petrol was used than any from using leaded solder in this case.
Jim

[derekwarner]

Jim...


I am pretty sure the World health organizations placed pressure & so clamped down on the famous Yorkshire copper tube fittings with the deformed capillary ring of soft solder in each tube joint


Been [edit] 50 years since I built a house, and I know the Scandavian use of plastic tubing for both hot & cold water displaced copper tubing 30 years ago, however I understand copper water tubing is back in favour for domestic housing & probably with silver soldered joints


[I know the MM Kembla Tube production suffered a huge reduction in copper tube production for the Australian housing industry for maybe 15 years] 

It appears that the 50 year warranty of the particular plastic with mains & hot water provided a lot of leaky tube work in wall cavities 


Derek

[Circlip]

Don't forget the far worse 'Lancashire' variety where the "Plumber" had to feed solder into the fitting to ensure a leak free joint and achieve more of a risk of Lead going into the water system. No problem with a correctly fitted either type but Yorkshire needed no extra. Sadly, as in many other trades, the DIY brigade and 'Instant' tradesmen created havoc. Even the push fit plastic varieties suffer from fools.
  Strangely enough when I worked in electronic manufacturing industry, the birds nest trial circuits "created" by many design Ingineers exhibited blobs of solder joining the components together rather than flowed smooth joints.



  Regards  Ian

[warspite]

My father, being a heating engineer (plumber) used yorkshires but being the type of plumber he was - old school - didn't trust the one hit wonder and always ran a run of solder round the outside edges - to be certain

[Baldrick]

    I used to be a City and Guilds qualified plumber and in the apprenticeship one of our crafts was to  perform "wiped " solder joints on lead piping. 
 this was not with a blowlamp but pot wiped. A large cast iron pot of molten solder over a paraffin furnace , using a ladle for pouring the molten solder onto a wiping cloth (folded moleskin cloth) held under and around the joint to finish the joint off with a sweep of the cloth.  this was both on water supply pipework of 1/2 to 1" and soil up to 6"..  One of the things you learnt very quickly was not to wear any gold or silver rings when doing the jointing because if you spilled any of the molten solder onto your hand, instead of it running off it would weld onto your ring and give you a hell of a burn.

[sabre]

Back in the day I spent quite a bit of time soldering these things and a lot of time soldering joints in cables plus lead plumbing using a gas torch and sticks of solder.    Fumes by the bucket load and I particularly liked the smell of multicore solder often filling my lungs with a good healthy sniff.   Forty fags a day and more sometimes plus around twenty years of town centre diesel fumes so I wouldn't worry about an occasional whiff.

[Circlip]

Don't you just luv the smell of 'Ersin' first thing on a morning. 


  Regards  Ian.