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[SwordsmanDreamer]

Hello all
I hope this is the correct part of the forum for this - apologies if not.
I'm considering my next build.
I was interested in building from plans, but having started pricing up the wood involved in say making the 34 inch crash tender, the cost of the wood was such that it seems to me that i might as well buy a kit (and my pricing exercise was last year or the year before, so no doubt the prices have only got worse what with the recent commodities price boom etc).
Anyway, following my diversion / side-track into model aeroplanes, back to the boats.
I greatly enjoy making things in wood.

I live near the sea (well, Chichester harbour), so I am interested in making something that would be suitable to put afloat in less than flat-calm conditions.
The boat kits that have caught my eye include the SLEC Crash Tender, the SLEC Huntsman 47, the Aeronaut Queen.
I also very much like the look of the SLEC fast patrol launch, but unfortunately it's just too small I think.
I appreciate that there is the SLEC 23 inch Huntsman, but I already have a 24 inch Swordsman nearing completion, so that doesn't appeal, being too close if only in size (I appreciate that their hulls have significant differences). I assume that, in general , the larger the hull, the more seaworthy, though of course, the more expensive to power etc.
With the Huntsman, I loathe the look of the aft cabin, so if i bought the 47 inch kit, I would have to modify it to make it aft cockpit, a la "707" (Fordsport). Not impossible, just some more wood and some more work.
The Aeronauts Queen is a very nice shape, in plan. However I don't care for the dark colour (mahogany) - I would have to paint that - far too "Victorian", and depressing, for me, and also it appears to have a deep fore-foot, which I don't like. But then again, it is 39 inches long, so that would help it cope with chop etc.

One thing that I have noticed just recently was a video of the SLEC Crash Tender afloat, which seemed to suggest that it had an unfortunate tendency to rather "lurch" to the side in turns, ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAIB2rRYsyk ). But perhaps that was just that particular model. I suppose that over the years, a lot of these boats have been built (it would appear that the SLEC kit is based on the Aerokits version), and so presumably if there was some generic, inherent instability, this would be commonly known by now.
I did also wonder about the SLEC Arrow, guess that's a kind of middle-ground, in terms of size, between my 24 inch Swordsman, and the Crash Tender, or the Huntsman or Queen.
So, if anyone would like to make any (helpful) suggestions / offer any advice, e.g alternative kits, it would all be very gratefully received.
Thanks
Best regards
SD

[derekwarner]

I see & understand the nervous top hammer displayed     by the SLEC Fire Tender in the video, however question if an incorrect positioning of batteries [or ballast] could be the contributor?

It is clearly a 'point of balance issue, as the vessel leans both in, and out in the same turn

Why not post a note to the manufacturer questioning this, and even include a link to the video

I think that SLEC would be pretty quick to offer an explanation as to the possible cause & so allay the fears you have


https://www.slecuk.com/contact


Derek

[canabus]

Hi SwordsmanDreamer


I have all these boats, as for the Crash Tender (mine is the 46" one) and the Queen both require the batteries in the stern.


In the crash Tender I have a pair of batteries each side of the rudder.


In the Queen I can only get one battery in plus some lead as well.


I did add spray rails the Queen.


Both boats work well in choppy waters.


The Huntsman(mine is a Precedent) I have the battery between the oiler tube and the rudder.


Works great and turns great !!!!


If you can pickup a Spearfish/ Spear these have the best hulls with super great turning and straight line performance with the right setup.


Canabus

[Rich griff]

I have a huntsman ( the large one ) in need of some TLC...any interest ?


It's too big and heavy for me to get to the lake...


I also have a merco 61 marine that would sit this boat well...


PM me if interested...

[ChrisF]

Hi SD

The aft cabin Huntsman 31 doesn't show off the sleek hull to the best advantage and I started building the full open cockpit Sport version at a scale of 1:12 - see side view from my drawings. I changed my mind though as I'm ending up with a number of full open cockpit Faireys and decided that I wanted the more common aft cabin version in the fleet, especially as I sold my big 47" one for the same reasons as Rich.

I only scratch build but know what you mean about the cost of the ply and other timber, particularly if like me you buy more than required for the one build. Building from plans does give you more options though.

Chris

[SwordsmanDreamer]

Hello Derek, Canabus, Rich Griff and Chris
Thank you for your various comments, advice and suggestions, they are all much appreciated.

Best regards
SD

[Rich griff]

Hi SD, pm sent...

[Capt Podge]

Whichever boat you choose, you're sure to get a lot of satisfaction from building and sailing it - Enjoy!


Ray.

[zooma]

The Aerokits Swordsman (33") has a superb rough water performance, but the slightly larger LesRo Rapier (39") could be an even better bet for your use as it is slightly bigger.


I have run both of these designs for extended periods in all conditions and both have been more than capable of handling our Great British weather!


Both have a deep Vee hull shape that is good in rough weather - I have even raced my Swordsman in one of the early offshore events in the open sea and it not only survived but performed well too.


Unfortunately both of these models are no longer available in new kit form, but plenty have been built from plans,  or can restored from used examples that do come up for sale now and again on certain online sites.


Restoring a used example can be even more satisfying than building a new kit and saving an old model to give it a new lease of life is very rewarding.


Original unmade kits also come up for sale now and again!


Whatever design you choose to build, I strongly suggest that you do not build one with a "lift-off" superstructure as they are not the best choice for use in the sea or in rough weather inland as the tops can be easily "washed-off" of the deck if hit by a wave or a heavy wash etc. leaving the hull open and easily flooded.


The Aerokits Swordsman and the LesRo Rapier designs are both good in rough weather and do not have "lift-off" superstructures. 


Other Aerokits designs that are also quite seaworthy include the classic Sea Commander and the larger version Sea Queen (neither of these have "lift-off" superstructures either) and these are still available as new kits from different manufacturers who now make these original Aerokits designs.

[Circlip]

Lot to be said for chine spray rails in helping to prevent corner 'Dig In'


  Regards  Ian.

[Colin Bishop]

Whatever design you choose to build, I strongly suggest that you do not build one with a "lift-off" superstructure as they are not the best choice for use in the sea or in rough weather inland as the tops can be easily "washed-off" of the deck if hit by a wave or a heavy wash etc. leaving the hull open and easily flooded.

Unsecured cabins can certainly be easily dislodged but it is easy enough to fit some sort of securing device such as pins that extend through the lower cabin sides and through the deck coaming.

In the photo of my Fairey Huntsman below, the brass 'barometer' on the starboard side of the cockpit is actually a bolt which secures the cabin unit to an internal hull bulkhead.

Colin

[ChrisF]

This thread is about 18 months old chaps! And SD hasn't posted much since then.

Chris

[zooma]

Unsecured cabins can certainly be easily dislodged but it is easy enough to fit some sort of securing device such as pins that extend through the lower cabin sides and through the deck coaming.

In the photo of my Fairey Huntsman below, the brass 'barometer' on the starboard side of the cockpit is actually a bolt which secures the cabin unit to an internal hull bulkhead.

Colin

.


Keeping the superstructure locked onto the hull when being battered by waves needs to be done very securely, but lift-off superstructures will inevitably allow any "deck-wash" to leak down into the hull.


Not everyone intends running their r/c boats in the open sea, or even in rough weather,  but for those that do, I strongly recommend NOT running any hull that has a "lift-off" superstructure as the power of a wave crashing over the decks can easily blow away any lift-off top - sometimes  tearing any fixings off with it !


Hulls with integrated superstructures such as the Aerokits Swordsman and Lesro Rapier will fare much better, but will still need good secure cabin tops - although loosing a cabin top is often not anything like as disastrous as loosing the entire superstructure that can result in a total loss.

[Backerther]

My experience of sailing on the very rough water by 1m class cabin cruiser with a lift-off cabin structure does not necessarily
coincide with what you have mentioned though......
My cabin cruiser as seen in the pics below has 3 roller-catches to lock the cabin onto the deck simply set on both sides of hull
and stern. The 3 roller-catches well have retained the cabin very well even on the very choppy lake so far....
1; The roller-catches on both sides of the hull
2; One in the stern
3/4; The boat did well on the rough water with no damage to the hull nor water inside of the boat. 
  Attention to the awful scenes(especially NO.3) for the front hull to have gone into the water momentarily.....
  But she suffered from such awful experience several times in one cruise this day...pity for her....
She returned to me safely after the cruise as if nothing special took place during the sailing except fully soaked with water.

   "Seeing is believing"  froｍ one of my experience !!!

[zooma]

Nice to see another "all weather" sailor Backerther 

The action shots of your boat out in slightly choppy weather look really good and you must have a nice water-tight seal between your deck and superstructure (no gaps) that is good enough to stop any leakage into your hull.

I don't have any pictures to share of my friends Swordsman that was fortunately rescued just before it was sunk.

His Swordsman was superbly built from the Phil Conolley plans and differ's from the Aerokits Swordsman insomuch that it is built with a lift-off superstructure.  Other than that, both boats looked the same when they were alongside each other.

My friends professional craftsmanship was always admired and the fit and finish of his models were always to a higher standard that most of us could ever hope to achieve but when were were running together at speed on the River Avon near Bristol both boats were hit and engulfed by a wave that passed over them both.

The complete superstructure of my friends Swordsman was torn off of the deck, the hull was filled with water and it sunk. My Aerokits Swordsman survived and was able to return safely to shore.

Fortunately (back in the 1960's) we always filled the bows area of our boats with two part expanding foam so the bow of the boat could be seen bobbing up and down in the water (like a float) as the cabin floated away.

A motor launch in the area kindly chased after the superstructure and then returned to pull the hull out of the water so nothing was lost, but we were lucky.

We had an off-shore race the following week in the sea just off of the coast near Torquay.  I entered my Aerokits Swordsman and it survived and performed well.  My friend wisely chose not to enter his boat as we were running in a 6 ft swell (!) with waves crashing over the boats as soon as they left the safety of the harbour walls.

Another friend of mine ran his Piranha hull based boat with a lift-off superstructure that same day,  and his boat was sunk and lost after a wave tore the cabin off.

The power and weight of an angry sea or heavy wake waves from large fast moving full size boats should never be underestimated as they can easily cause a model boat to capsize and rip off anything that is not securely fastened down.

[Backerther]

Oh, you must be joking to say that this level of weather is "slightly choppy"?,...Zooma
My boat is 1/15 scale and ran in 1/1 scale rough waves and was battered by the 1/1 waves frequently resulted into going under the water as seen in the pics....
 Nevertheless, the lift-off style cabin could be kept in place in such a terrific conditions with 3 simple roller-catch retainers.
Therefore, I think even the lift-off style of cabin could be OK on the rough water if adequately built in the hull for the sake of rough water sailing.

Essentially this is "the battle" of (1/15) model boat against 1/1 rough wave, isn't it ?? 
How about your RC boats battling against the rough wave..?  I'd like to see some pics of the boats sailing on the rough water if you have some.


Kiyo

[zooma]

Hi Backerther,

Compared to a 6 ft swell in the open sea (a 6ft swell is a wall of water 12 feet high from top to bottom), the water condition that you have pictured would be described by myself as "slightly choppy", and certainly nothing like you could encounter on the open sea on a rough weather day with heavy waves crashing down on top of your boat.

Your comparison to scale is interesting, but in real life (12" = 1 foot scale), the water pictured would be described as  "slightly choppy",  but it would still be enough to make for an "interesting" sail with your model power boat, but not enough to generate high waves that could crash down on top of your model and pound it with enough power to cause actual structural damage - and probably not enough to wash away the superstructure on your "lift-off" cabin either - especially one like yours that is well constructed and held down with three clips.

I love sailing my own powerboats in weather conditions like your pictures show because it looks exciting and causes the boat to move about enough to give a really scale like thrill, but it is never likely to threaten the build integrity of your model - unless something is loose or poorly secured.

Running on slightly choppy water (or even choppy water)  is much nicer that running on a "flat calm" with most model power boats IMO - especially those with a deep V hull that thrive in comparatively scale like sea conditions, but I am assuming that the boats are around 30" - 40" or bigger (like yours) and is of a type that would be put to sea in real life.

Model canal boats would not fare quite so well (for example), and small length vessels would need be checked closer to shore to make certain that they were capable of sailing in what would be quite rough conditions for a small model before venturing out further.

If you get the chance to run your model on the open sea on a windy day you will see just how much the conditions differ from running on comparatively sheltered waters.

The original contributor to this thread mentioned living by the sea and wanting to build a model that would be capable of being put to sea in "less than flat calm conditions".

My answers have been given in relation to the original thread as I do have experience of running models like he suggests in the open sea, and I have learnt what works and what does not work as well in these "non scale like" conditions that can be brutal for a model power boat.

I know this thread is quite old now, but I have learnt a lot by studying some of the old Mayhem threads as they still include valuable information that I find useful and it is with that in mind that I first answered this old thread as it will still be getting read by some that may not have seen it at the time but are contemplating building a model power boat to possibly run in the open sea.

Stay safe Blackerther, and keep posting those super pictures of your power boats out on your local water. 

[Ralph]

Think this thread has stayed a bit from the original (old) starting point but on the topic of boats in rough weather there's a short video on our club Facebook of my Yorkshireman tug getting very wet (my 13 y.o. grandson was driving it, not sure if I should let him near my models again!).  I've no idea how to post a link to it but it if you head to Dundee Model Boat Club on facebook it was posted on 17th December. There's a second video clip posted on 20th December in slightly calmer conditions. Lots of other videos of club members boats as well if you fancy a browse.


Ralph