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[rhavrane]

Bonjour,

I have always wanted to install a "Petit Cheval/donkey" pump in a boat and my Stuart was too big and heavy.
A very skilled colleague equipped with numerical control machines made a prototype, JMC improved it, industrialized it and I was able to acquire its first copy. Tests to follow, and already the manufacturing quality is there 
https://youtu.be/yQCd3EHaDbk

[SteamboatPhil]

Très Bon 

[ooyah/2]

Raphael.
It looks like a copy of a Southworth 3"pump, does it start first time in any position.


George

[rhavrane]

Bonjour George,
Everything already exists in our domain, I guess your are right and never mind, this is the first one ever built in France by a littler and possibly isntalled in a boat isn't it 

Already tested on air, video coming soon, yes, it starts in any position, to be confirmed by the steam test and the boiler filling.

[rhavrane]

Bonjour,
Air test of this pump (with subtitles I hope    ) :
https://youtu.be/fS3cN5nSVlo

[KBIO]

Hello George !
Yes , it is a 3 '' Southwork. i have a few of them and the drawing is the same passing from hand to hand since a long time ,already. I installed one about 10 years ago in my « KURUN » (Steam whaler) . At this time it was very tricky to understand and set properly. It didn’t restart . So we made a steam jacket around the steam chest of the donkey pump , to keep it warm. the steam coming from the boiler toward the D10 is permanently passing around the donkey pump jacket. The D10 runs permanently as the boat has a variable pitch propeller.
Can't put no pic tonight ???

The train’s people were the first to operate this kind of « tricky » little thing. It is easier when you ride a train and you help by hand.For a boat , it is different . As soon as ther boat is in the water she behaves like a young dog and ignores you !The donkey pump is very easy to understand but the setting need to be perfect . The engineer who invented it was  probably another Scottish smart devil ! ;-))
I did some measurements of the water I can supply to my boiler , when I had fun with it. I do not have no note about it , but it can fill any boiler at any rate and it can eventually flow three, four time more that what it is needed ! It was when You tube didn’t exist yet !So no worries !

There was a long time since I used them and Rhavrane’s post was a good opportunity to check how they behave after so many years on the shelf ! i have been surprised by the performance . A bit of pressure = 1/2 b and it runs.It runs so good that I bursted my pressure gauge..
https://youtu.be/gtIjoifO7S0

No need for by-pass and other scrap ! Only adjusting  the needle valve is sufficient .A few minutes after I moved the gauge out , I open the boiler main valve to bleed off pressure through the Donkey pump and ,... that’s it .
https://youtu.be/1yrMi7Lndu0

The following video show the steam test of the Stuart one after so many yeras on the shelf . Right on ! A blow of steam and … That’s it ! It runs.
https://youtu.be/RUkQE59ejn8


The double Southwork was a bit lazy to wake up. The packings  were dry & stiff. That was better after a few drop of oil on the shafts.Test with air is OK.It is alway OK with air !Have you notice ?
https://youtu.be/ldK9x5q0iRQ

https://youtu.be/ldK9x5q0iRQ


Sorry for polluting your post Rahavranne , I know that this is not very elegant but once will not hurt ! ;-))

[rhavrane]

Bonjour Yves,
No problem, we talk about the same product

Lucky man who have several ones, incuding a Stuart one, I note that your pumps are vertical but you are right, I guess the plans have a similar origin.

The double one is quite uncommon, I just saw one once, quite larger : https://youtu.be/mW212BFmE4o
My air test confirms the power of the pump, and, as you say, everything goes well on air, so, let's wait and see the steam one,., coming soon 

[rhavrane]

Bonjour,
For my English speaking followers https://youtu.be/7a1CjanK5Pc 

[rhavrane]

Bonjour,

Test on steam, pump connected to the boiler : https://youtu.be/ECWJJIMAVeg 

[KBIO]

Well done ! 

[rhavrane]

Bonjour Yves,
still a few settings to tweak and I know you are helping 

[ooyah/2]

Bonjour,

Test on steam, pump connected to the boiler : https://youtu.be/

Raphael
,Thanks for the video of the steam pump it really pumps well and runs very smooth. The reason that it hesitated to start is when you inserted hot steam on hitting cold metal is that it caused the pump to hydraulic lock as to much hot steam hit the cold pump and you had to flick it to start. This is a common fault on the small 3" vertical pumps, to stop this I made a Taper screw down needle valve / combined hydraulic lubricator which was screwed into the steam chest of the pump. This gave very much more finer control of the steam going into the pump instead of coming directly from the boiler which cured the hydraulic locking .

As I don't have any pics of the 3" pump which recently gave to a friend  so if he reads this perhaps he will post a pic of the 3" pump and the needle control valve. Here is one of a Stuart pump with the control valve fitted to give a better idea of what I am talking about. I also did this for a 6" Southworth vertical and it also cured the hydraulic locking unfortunately the 6" pump has a straight lubricator shown .This may be of interest to Yves also.
George.

[DBS88]

Here are the Photos of the lovely 3 inch Southworth Pump and the needle valve as described by George. This pump runs beautifully and is destined to be installed in a steam boat soon. Here is a link to a test run, the pump is running nicely on 10 psi from an airbrush compressor https://youtu.be/MIlcBOad-DQ


I know George spent a good deal of time and effort in constructing this pump, its mesmerising to watch it running, its a lovely pump which I had planned to put in my Black Swan Sloop, but there it would have been hidden from view, so now plan to install it in an open style launch so that engineering can be seen working.


Raphael and KBIO its a pleasure to see those pumps in action, well done

[rhavrane]

Bonjour David,
Lovely pump indeed, and very good pictures (I have to learn how to insert them in my messages, haven't I Jim  )

I just note there is no stop for the free valve/piston, would a risk of disruption occur ? And the water part of the pump is horizontal, are there springs to hold onto balls to guarantee its tightness?

I like the idea to install it in an open launch because, hidden in the Mersey trawler I filmed, you just heared a strange knock knock sound.

Besides this, I would kindly suggest you to test it on steam, connected to your boiler because in my case, I noticed that its behaviour changed after several minutes of constant use at about 30 PSI. Of course, uou will also share a video 

I am happy to share this new experience for me because it is VERY uncommon to see one of them installed in a boat. The Stuart one is too large and heavy, and, before JMC, I had never seen one to purchase.

That said, if there is an opportunity to get another one, I am interested 

[ooyah/2]

Bonjour David,
Lovely pump indeed, and very good pictures (I have to learn how to insert them in my messages, haven't I Jim  )

I just note there is no stop for the free valve/piston, would a risk of disruption occur ? And the water part of the pump is horizontal, are there springs to hold onto balls to guarantee its tightness?

I like the idea to install it in an open launch because, hidden in the Mersey trawler I filmed, you just heared a strange knock knock sound.

Besides this, I would kindly suggest you to test it on steam, connected to your boiler because in my case, I noticed that its behaviour changed after several minutes of constant use at about 30 PSI. Of course, uou will also share a video 

I am happy to share this new experience for me because it is VERY uncommon to see one of them installed in a boat. The Stuart one is too large and heavy, and, before JMC, I had never seen one to purchase.

That said, if there is an opportunity to get another one, I am interested 

Raphael,


I don't understand your question  ( no stop for the valve/piston ) the only valve in the pump is the slide valve on 1/16" actuating rod with the 2- dia stops on it which is operated by the arm on the pump ram, this valve stops at TDC and BDC. the other is a free moving bobbin valve which diverts the steam to the top  and bottom of the piston to actuate the working of the pump.


There are no ball bearings in the water pump but butterfly valves with small springs holding the valves to the body in place of ball bearings ( see pic )
The pump will operate either in the vertical or the horizontal position if on making you wish to install ball bearings instead.


If yo have problems with the suction and delivery using ball bearings with the pump in a horizontal position it means that the clearance above the balls is too great, the clearance should be no more than  ( .o30" )


I hope this answers your questions.


George.


     

[DBS88]

Raphael, thank you. Re testing the pump on steam I don't have a spare boiler on the bench at the moment to do so, but I do know it runs very well on steam, pumping water into a boiler and overcoming a steam pressure of 50 psi. I look forward to setting it up and test running it alongside the boiler and engine combination that I have ready to go in an open launch. Will share videos of the tests and the final set up, but it won't be for a while.

[rhavrane]

Bonjour,

George, the JMC pump has also butterfly valves but without small springs, thats' why it is used vertical. Thanks to your message, I understand how your one can be horizontal and I confirm, this sealing is quite better than with balls to be confimed in a few years

David, I have had an opportunity to buy a good spare boiler for a very low price, this is why I have what I call my workshop boiler :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=go4IbVXTtZs

[ooyah/2]

Bonjour,

George, the JMC pump has also butterfly valves but without small springs, thats' why it is used vertical. Thanks to your message, I understand how your one can be horizontal and I confirm, this sealing is quite better than with balls to be confimed in a few years

David, I have had an opportunity to buy a good spare boiler for a very low price, this is why I have what I call my workshop boiler :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=go4IbVXTtZs

Raphael.


I must point out to you that you can have pumps that have St/St balls and can work in a horizontal position.
I have made several pumps with St/St balls for some members of the forum and they work very well.


The reason for having the pump in a horizontal position is that in some cases if installed vertical the bottom suction side fowls the curve of the hull and has to be turned horizontally.
Also being so low in the boat below the waterline it creates a positive head of water and the pump then self primes.


Look at your video of your pump made by JMC and the suction side has a very sharp 90deg bend and not the best for the operation of the pump although it still operate very well.


Here is a pic of a pump in a horizontal position on a Reeves Marcher engine that I made and because it is mounted so high and is above the waterline it has to be primed to start pumping and once started it will pump away fine all day


George

[rhavrane]

Bonjour George,

Many thanks for sharing this information. I have asked JMC if I could install my pump horizontally, there is no problem because the butterfly valves are adjusted to let the water flow without risking to get them in the way.

I fully agree with you, the lower the pump is the better it is but currently, I don't know yet in which hull I will install it. As previously said, I would like it visible.

Otherwise, what a nice Reeves machine, not common in France at all, I just have a Warrior MK3, the brass cousin of the Stuart D10   

[rhavrane]

Bonjour,
Esthetic enhancements and debit test :
https://youtu.be/hSwG2p45iGY