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[Nordlys]

I do agree with you. My model shop is selling hugely expensive models and rc equipment. Way beyond what I would be prepared to pay anyway.

[TomHugill]

The money goes elswhere. The latest must have iPhones are over £800. Even mid range phones are £500 and then there is the cost of computer games and the equipment to play them.

Youngsters have different priorities these days.

Colin

No one's (well very few) are going out and dropping £800 or even £500 on a smart phone though. Maybe will be parents cast ofs and many will be on contract and paid monthly.

[sabre]

There's a lot of things competing for your money these days and that's before all the recent increases.   The little darlings are way too interested in the content of their  phones and video gaming so I dare say that anything rc whether planes or boats is boring to them.   One thing i've noticed is that certain hobby magazines like RCM&E and Model Boats are hard to find on the shelves these days.   Still seems to be plenty of railway stuff though.   

[Colin Bishop]

I’m afraid that I don’t agree that model boating has to be expensive for beginners. Dodgy Geezer’s Ezebilt range is exactly that, plans are free and all you need is a bit of balsa and small motor & running gear.

http://eezebilt.tk/index.html

There is currently a Triton build log on the Model Boats website.

https://www.modelboats.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=183653&p=1

Glynn Guest has published dozens of plans of a wide variety of subjects and just about all of them feature simple construction, basic materials (balsa, card sanding sealer etc.). It’s usually possible to track down the original build article and purchase a magazine issue secondhand or members of the model boating websites are often happy to scan these and email them to you if asked nicely.

Model Boats magazine publishes free plans in every other issue and again, most of these are straightforward to construct, the January 2023 issue features Ray Wood’s Eventide yacht and recent issues have included a small tug from Glynn and a ‘bumper boat’ from Ashley Needham.

Radio control needn’t cost an arm and a leg either whether bought new or secondhand.

People have been bemoaning the lack of youngsters coming into the hobby for at least 20 years to my knowledge. If it didn’t happen then when there were far more model boaters around, then we have to face the fact that it is unlikely to happen now. Over the last five years, before Covid the numbers have fallen off a cliff, most of the big shows vanished almost overnight and we are left with just Blackpool this year plus efforts from manufacturers such as Deans and events put on by some of the larger clubs. Hopefully Warwick will return next year but otherwise there are few signs of any of the other shows being revived in their old form although there are some overdue moves towards multi model shows.

Given the problems of finding suitable water in many areas it seems to me that the continuance of the hobby as a social activity lies with those remaining clubs which still have healthy memberships although most of those members are probably in or approaching the ‘grandad zone’

Colin

[Colin Bishop]

One thing i've noticed is that certain hobby magazines like RCM&E and Model Boats are hard to find on the shelves these days. 

I'm afraid that is a chicken and egg situation. Once sales fall below a certain level in a branch, probably about 5 per month, W H Smith stop stocking them. Just another indication of falling boater numbers.

Colin

[Subculture]

That's if you still have a local WH Smiths. Most have bitten the dust. The majority consume media via phones days.

[Circlip]

Sorry Colin you're too late with twenty years, you need to go back to Tele Tennis and the original Space Invader game to herald the change, far earlier than twenty.


  Regards  Ian.

[Colin Bishop]

Quite right Ian but for some years before the 20 I was taking a break from model boating in favour of the full size version (and that WAS expensive!)

Funilly enough, beforethat I was happily juggling between the MPBA regatta circuit and writing stuff on my Sinclair Spectrum which was also expensive - I bought a 15 inch colour portable TV for £250 to display the results. You can buy a 43 inch smart TV for that now!

MAP who used to publish Model Boats published two of my games.

Based on the Battle of the River Plate
https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/entry/15611/ZX-Spectrum/Raider_41

Based on The Channel Dash
https://spectrumcomputing.co.uk/entry/17510/ZX-Spectrum/Operation_Cerberus

Happy days and I was no computer whizz kid either just an interested 36 year old with two young kids.

Colin

[Circlip]

' The moving pen writes and having writ moves on' Nostalgia ain't what it used to be and the days of Aerokits, Rip-Max, ED etc. are LONG gone so get over it. S*d all to do with lack of waterways, the stupid kids can still manage to find cold ponds in hot weather to drown themselves. The old Farts, and I readily class myself as one, had a period of time where, as kids, we pressed our noses at the shop windows with a sense of wonderment at all the toys, from Dinkys to Aerokits and Eddie Keils offerings displayed, hoping for a 'Surprise' round Christmas or Birthdays. From the mid forties until the mid sixties we still had the 'Mend' and 'Adapt' attitude and disposable income would to the many be an unknown term. Bought my Lathe when I was forty but used one in the works for the previous fifteen.
   
   I hope that I will be able to teach my grandson and great grandson when old enough to APPRECIATE how to interfere with the intricacies of flight of my airforce and boat fleet but I know darned well it will be a transitory experience.


   This is not a pessimistic attitude, It's realism.


   Regards  Ian.

[dodgy geezer]

I’m afraid that I don’t agree that model boating has to be expensive for beginners. Dodgy Geezer’s Ezebilt range is exactly that, plans are free and all you need is a bit of balsa and small motor & running gear.....

Colin

The main reason I put up the EeZeBilt website was to stop these little starter boats becoming completely extinct. Left alone, the few remaining kits would have passed through Ebay for £100 or more, and disappeared into personal collections, never to be seen again.

I reckoned that the best way to preserve them was to make them available over the Web for free, so that lots of people would download them. Spreading them about in this way seems to have been successful - quite a few people liked revisiting their childhood and building them again (often double-sized!) but the main aim was to create thousands of backup copies on disks all over the world... at no extra cost to me. I am still surprised at how widely the plans have spread.

Might the Model Boat website consider a similar exercise? I am sure Glyn Guest could turn out a very good 'starter' design suitable for small stretches of water - perhaps even a short series of boats. If plans for these, with a build log and advice on the purchase/acquisition of materials, running gear, motor and radio were put out on the site - as a free, one-off exercise - you could get a lot more new hits on the web site and, crucially, get the attention of people who are not sufficiently interested in the hobby to fork out for a magazine (at the moment!).

'Free!' has a lot to commend it as an advertising technique, particularly for those who have not thought about the product before. I have seen a number of gyms, golf ranges, etc offering 'Free!' initial trials, and you would be providing the same service for model boating...

[SailorGreg]

Not sure why there is so much opprobrium aimed at the use of mobile phones (an activity not age-restricted in my experience).  Everyone here is sitting in front of some form of communication device and using it for a host of things beyond reading MBM.  How is that any different?  Times have changed folks - and so have we!

Greg

[Colin Bishop]

I am sure Glynn Guest could turn out a very good 'starter' design suitable for small stretches of water

Basically Glynn has done exactly that in the current Christmas issue with his 15 inch US Army tug pull out plan and building instructions.

Colin

[Andyn]

I fear most looking at the eezibilt kits and GG designs are missing the point. Yes they’re easy to to build, but how many beginners start with one? Most younger people now start with plastic rtr fast electrics and don’t stick with it because of how overpriced and disappointing they are. A lot of young people have no desire to build things anymore, which is not their fault, it’s the way the world was directed by the previous generations. Bill Gates is one of the leading lights in the modernisation of our world, and he’s a right at the tail end of being a baby boomer


The answer for getting more people into the hobby is not the young generation, the majority would not be interested (I speak as one of the forum’s youngest members). The answer for getting more people into the hobby is aiming at the 30+ who have young kids, though how best to do this is not my area of experience. Our club has seen a significant rise in members over the last three years, the youngest is 42, not counting my fiancé who is 26.

[me3]

This has come up a few times, last time I commented I was 21, now I'm 25. Have a read of what has been said about the younger generation over the few pages. Then imagine you are a little 'un reading about the hobby and read this thread. Would you continue? Absolutely not...

[Colin Bishop]

Andy,

You have highlighted the split between those who want to simply run boats on the water, hence the attraction of RTR, and those who actually want to be creative in making things which work.

Many younger people do still want to be creative whether it is in physically making things or in designing them - another area where there is a split. Creating computer games is very different from playing them just as building model boats adds another dimension to those who simply want to buy something to sail.

So, as has been said previously, there is an underlying split between makers and consumers. People take pleasure in different things and there can be variants in different areas. Some people like to design or provide tools, physical or virtual, as an end in its own right. Others like to take those tools and create things with them. Fewer people do both.

I use Photoshop Elements to help improve the images I take in my hobby of photography. To me that is just a tool to be used. Others are more interested in developing the capabilities of the software to provide additional options and get their satisfaction from that. There is room for everyone who wants to be creative although it has to be said that a large chunk of the population are not much interested in either these days and are happy to buy a 50 inch TV and consume whatever content is available to it. These people are essentially just passive consumers although they may be creative and active in their day jobs. It takes all sorts.

Colin

[Colin Bishop]

Have a read of what has been said about the younger generation over the few pages. Then imagine you are a little 'un reading about the hobby and read this thread. Would you continue? Absolutely not...

To be perfectly honest, if I were 25 years old again (sigh!), model boating would certainly not be my first choice of a hobby unless I was already particularly hooked on the subject. There are so many other attractive options these days to explore and exploit for those with a bit of imagination and drive. The truth is that model boating is now an old man's hobby and we should not be expecting younger generations to find it especially attractive considering what else is on offer. It all comes down to the individual and the extent to which they are prepared to explore and develop their particular interests. I don't have any quarrel with that. I am on the side of the creative people rather than the passive consumers as that is where the real satisfaction lies.

Colin

[citroenzxdriver]

I came back to modeling boats in particular 20 odd years ago with being off work for a month with of all things Chicken Pox. I now find myself the Chairman of our Model boat club. While I have built and do have rc boats in the pipeline I build quite a lot of static plastic kits ( I tend to build while away in the caravan) one reason is when displaying at shows it's to show you don't have to just build RC to be in the club. Back to Juniors when our daughter was 7 we'd been watching a program about the Titanic, the next visit to our local model shop she picked up a fairly big box up (probably looked bigger than it was with a 7 yr old holding it) "dad can you build this one next!"......"No!", it was quickly and carefully put back on the shelf and placed in her hands was a 1:1200 Revel Titanic "you can build it!" so I set about showing her how to build & paint it and make it into a little diarama including a polystyrene iceburg. This was entered as a last minute entry into the juniors section of the Harrogate Model Engineers exhibition, which she won and got a 1st but criticised for no build log. From this acorn.... the following year she followed up with a 1:1200 QE2 and again entered in the junior section at Harrogate build log and all and won a 2nd place. Yes I thought, she's got the modeling bug. Her 3rd build a:1200 QM2. the build was going great, and then we entered her QE2 into the Model Boat Convention at Haydock park. Unfortunately that was the year the Russians came to town! They practically won everything including the juniors, yes they were fantastic models, but the juniors didn't even attend the show! That was it, the rot had set in and it was all we could do to get here to finish the QM2. Now she's 18 still a member of our model boat club and studying Art at Uni so I can only assume somthing has sunk in with her.

[Barney Magrew]

It would appear that RC Helicopters are a "sport" but RC Boats are not.  From the Houses of Parliament.

[ChrisF]

Sport to me would indicate a competitive element, so yacht and power boat racing yes, but leisure boating no.

Chris

[dodgy geezer]

Basically Glynn has done exactly that in the current Christmas issue with his 15 inch US Army tug pull out plan and building instructions.

Colin

I think this rather missed the point I was trying to make.  This very attractive plan is ONLY available to those who buy the magazine - in other words, those who are already interested in and following the hobby. If we want to attract new blood, we need to make such things available to people who are currently OUTSIDE the hobby. 


I don't have the benefit of the sort of professional advertising and reach as Model Boats does, but over the years several people have messaged me to say that they have seen the EeZeBilt plans and have started to make one as their first model boat. The initial attraction seems to have been browsing the web and finding a free set of plans and support. That was why I suggested that the Model Boats web site might consider putting up such a service for a single plan and seeing how many people downloaded it...

[Colin Bishop]

Fair enough DG, I suggest you contact the Editor, Lindsey Amrani, with your suggestion. The advertising content on the website is paid for so she would need to pass it on to her bosses to decide.

As moderator of the website I would be quite happy for you to set up a dedicated topic and give it prominence by making it a 'sticky'. The initial post could describe EzEbilt models and give the download link. I know a lot of this is already on there in various places but bringing the EzEbilt material together under one heading would be more likely to catch the eye of casual visitors to the Forum.

Colin

[Subculture]

Have model boats considered making a selection of electronic versions of past free plans available for download? Plenty of content out there already, probably much that isn't respecting copyright, but it may raise some interest.

[Colin Bishop]

Model Boats haven't been involved with the plans service for some years now. It was sold off to Sarik Hobbies who of course are in the business of selling plans rather than giving them away. Prior to this many of the magazine free plans were incorporated into the plans range for sale but that apparently no longer happens. The magazine used to publish feature plan articles where you ordered the plan after reading the article but this seems to have been discontinued after the transfer of the plans service to Sarik.

As I have posted elsewhere, the free plans will be available to digital subscribers with effect from the January 2023 issue. This is clearly aimed at promoting digital subscriptions.

I don't know the ins and outs of it but it would seem that MyTimeMedia decided that maintaining the plans range was simply no longer worth their while as as a commercial proposition. Actual turnover of plans has been very low for years now as most modellers  buy RTR boats or build kits and the more serious scale modellers do their research elsewhere.The magazine these days runs on around 50% of it's former budget and contributor payments have been lowered pro rata with little indication of a return to former levels. Regular contributors do it for love, not money, and in the interests of keeping the magazine afloat. It's a better situation than for Marine Modelling which simply went bust due to low circulation figures.

The Plans Service is logically a better fit for Sarik who produce and sell things rather than publish them. If you look up their company details they are essentially just a small family business much like other model boating suppliers.

Colin

[dodgy geezer]

Model Boats haven't been involved with the plans service for some years now. It was sold off to Sarik Hobbies who of course are in the business of selling plans rather than giving them away. Prior to this many of the magazine free plans were incorporated into the plans range for sale but that apparently no longer happens. The magazine used to publish feature plan articles where you ordered the plan after reading the article but this seems to have been discontinued after the transfer of the plans service to Sarik.

Colin

This illustrates a classic problem that model boating (and model flying) is falling into.


During the 1960s, for example, copies of plans commanded considerable prices - they were essential for most people to create a model vehicle - and so a collection was a profitable item. Small companies used to produce their own ranges of models - again, the Intellectual Property invested in these was a valuable asset of the company. If such a company was bought up, the plans and die-cutting tools were essentially what was being bought, and so they appeared on the accountant's books as profit-making property.


Gradually, as the plans became old-fashioned, and the hobby moved on, these items (which held considerable historical value) became less and less valuable in the commercial sense.  Although the accountants had defined them as valuable, they were not bringing in money, cost a lot to maintain, and, of course, no one was willing to buy them at the price the accountants had determined that they were worth.   But because they were on the books as assets they could not just be 'given away'. In many cases they were just forgotten or written off and destroyed - I guess this is what happened to the Model Aerodrome 'Marinecraft' range, or the 'Felstra' boats.  Phil Smith took the Veron range and kept them going for a while - I think some of his aircraft are still available from a company - and the Aerokits range seems to be clinging on.  Outer Zone is doing a marvelous job of retaining aircraft plans, but they don't do boats...


It would be nice if there was some form of archive available, like the Public Records Office at Kew, but I don't suppose we can interest the historians at Greenwich in spending money on model plans...

[ChrisF]

At least nowadays a number of plans have been saved by individuals by having them as PDFs rather than the original paper copies disappearing by disintegration or being thrown out.

And now and again someone posts asking for identification of a model which has lead to an interesting search to hunt down the mystery model and even better plans. One such turned out to be a kit from Modav for a nice little boat the Sea Vixen which was finally tracked down and a nice addition. Plans courtesy of Canabus/Harry Smith and cleaned up by Ian/Circlip. An internet search threw up nothing about Modav, apart from the Fairey Huntsman 31 kit, which I already knew about and Modav being Model Avionics, later to become Precedent etc.

Chris