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[Sonar]

I have no model making skills whatsoever.
But I enjoy what I do   Looks a bit rough when finished but that’s another topic.


But I have noticed some skills are now computer based like a 3 d printer


Just read a post saying I have a 3 d printer and access to files.
So assume the sill now is gluing the bits together.


There are without doubt a lot of modellers that still make all their parts by hand. 
So are the model making skills now changing  and the best is 3 d printing.  ..

[JimG]

The basic modelmaking skills are still there and being used by many people. Some may be used less while others are more popular. Fewer modellers use lathes and machine tools to make steam engines but this part of the hobby still goes on. Some make hulls from scratch while others buy ready made ones. Some will make all of the fittings themselves while others rely on bought ones.Some now use 3D printers to make parts while others still start from scratch, make moulds and cast them. 3D printers are now becoming reasonably trouble free but for some time they took a lot of work to get good results.Go back 40 years and I bet the older modellers of the time were saying that the newcomers were not using the skills they had learned when they were young. The old methods will still go on while new ones will develop.
Jim

[Martin (Admin)]

 Hi Jim,

Ah, there is a long and passionate debate about 3D modelling, design & and the decline of 'traditional' model boating ....

 See:   https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,67812.0.html

[Andyn]

3d printing is undeniably the future of modelmaking. That said, there will always be people who like to hack bits of wood to build their models, and people (like me) who like to make everything out of metal and composites. at the end of the day, how you make your models is your own personal choice

[roycv]

I echo a lot of what Andy says and over the years I have accumulated so much wood the last 2 boats were using some of this wood.  Pleased though that commercial skills are transferring across to do hobby related things.  There was that great source of  metal workers who started building raiway engines and marine steam engines etc.
All sounds good for the future.
Roy
 

[Colin Bishop]

3d printing is undeniably the future of modelmaking.

I think that is rather a sweeping statement.  3D printing is a very useful tool to add to the modelmaker's armoury but it can't do everything. It won't build you a clinker plank on frame hull or a strong tapered mast for example. It does come into its own when making fittings and can produce results that would make traditional scratch builders weep! (See photo below).

It is another very useful string to our bows in producing the model we want.

But 3D printing is only the output really. It's not too difficult to buy a decent printer for a reasonable price but you still need the template files to produce the item you need. There are a lot of free files online which can be tweaked to ouput at the desired scales but to produce those base files you need CAD design skills which is OK for the technically qualified amongst us but an obstacle to those that are not. The gun below was produced with commercial help and quite a bit of money! Many of us prefer DiY!

Then there are the materials used. The filaments used in 3D printing are of plastic/nylon type materiials and do the job if you gert the print resolution right but not all of us like that although we are often happy to compromise when it comes to fittings. There is probably not much to chose between 3D printed items and traditional injection or resin moulded fittings except that the 3D printed items can be of far better quality when top spec printers and materials are used which can mean going commercial.  I think that white metal has passed its sell by date now as being too heavy and often poorly cast.

Andy refers to hacking bits of wood but that is an unfair description. Carpentry in  miniature is a valuable skill on its own and personally I much prefer working with traditional materials like wood than various types pf plastic but it all comes down to personal preference. My current project is a Greek Fishing Boat. No need for 3D printing, everything 'au naturel'.

It's a hobby, lots of ways to do things and whatever suits you is the right way.

Colin

[Andyn]

While I agree with you Colin, I think you’re looking very short term. Give it 10 to 20 years and most people won’t be doing anything with wood anymore - if it’s even still available in the form we currently use it in as modellers.

[Colin Bishop]

Andy,

I agree it might be difficult to get wood in the options we have now in the future but working with natural materials in craft applications is very unliklely to cease. The Ancient Egyptians made model boats 4,000 years ago and they still exist in museums. Anything built from petro chemical material today is lilkely to disintegrate within 100 years at best. These materials are not chemically stable which  is why Museums don't like them.

Modelmaking is a craft and in it's basics involve a person with tools fashioning an item in natural materials. It is a direct relationship and has been so for thousands of years. That will not change.

There is also the physical pleasure of actually converting organic material (wood) into items such as model boats by using manipulative skills, whereas simply printing something out in plastic can never come close! I prefer working with wood than plastic as do many others. It's just nicer to work with.

Each to their own of course but I prefer actually crafting and making something that will last to creating a computer file and printing it out in an ultimately unstable material which  will self destruct in a realtively short time.

10-20 years comes nowhere.  Think about 4,000 years for the Egyptian models. We still carve wood as they did. True craftspeople will always favour natural materials that will last as they always have.

In the short term by all means use 3D printing and plastic as it may still outlast you and if you enjoy it then why not. Horses for courses as always.

So I'm looking very long term not short term!

Colin

[JimG]

 Hi Jim,

Ah, there is a long and passionate debate about 3D modelling, design & and the decline of 'traditional' model boating ....

 See:   https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,67812.0.html

I'm sure there also would have been a passionate debate about how resin casting was the end of traditional modelling. At least there might have been if modern social media was about, letters to the editor doesn't lead to great debating.  The advent of moulded glassfibre hulls must have had the older club members bemoaning the loss of skills needed to make bread and butter hulls. With these mylar sails who needs the skills for making oiled/varnished linen ones. There will always be new modelling methods being developed but the old ones will still go on, especially where the old ones are better. Could Mark T's Le Rochefort be made by 3D printing? Possibly with a lot of work in CAD drawing a CNC mill might make the parts from wood.
Jim

[Colin Bishop]

Yes Jim,

3D printing is just another tool. Very useful for some things such as as fittings but not a game changer for construction generally.

Colin

[ChrisF]

CAD and 3D printing allows the roughest and unskilled of "modellers" to produce first class models!

Chris

[ballastanksian]

My industry (Military modelling and wargames kits/figurines) is seeing the increase in 3D printing echoing that in this hobby. In discussion with companies and individuals, and seeing what goes on the social media, it is popular, it allows those with no hand skills or who are not confident in kit assembly to make their own parts and miniatures.


An issue that I worry threatens the medium term popularity (say five years from now?) is that the resins used for printing do not stop curing. The printers and post print curing systems use UV light to cure the resin, which is akin to the damaging part of sunlight. You can slow it down by storing the part/parts in a box or in the dark, but it will continue to get harder and thus more brittle. Wargames pieces and small model parts will eventually become too brittle to handle risking the loss of hard work and time spent cleaning and painting.


Plastic also loses it's flexibility over time and will become easy to break even when painted, and some companies mix recycled plastic into their mix which also makes it more brittle to start with as can be found in Esci and Italeri kits and can possibly still, so the issue isn't cut and dried.


I like to make my own bits, and I also cast a few like many folk on this forum from pewter and resin. I have a Rip-rap and a resin printer which I will dabble with once I have room to set them up, but I like the feel of cutting, checking, measuring and shaping. Soldering and working lots of different materials to get the best benefit from each.

[dodgy geezer]

I have no model making skills whatsoever.
But I enjoy what I do   Looks a bit rough when finished but that’s another topic.

But I have noticed some skills are now computer based like a 3 d printer

Just read a post saying I have a 3 d printer and access to files.
So assume the sill now is gluing the bits together.

There are without doubt a lot of modellers that still make all their parts by hand. 
So are the model making skills now changing  and the best is 3 d printing.  ..

One aim that I have had is recreating, as closely as possible, the experience of building an early beginner's kit from the 1950s, which I believe was a formative experience in developing the love of this hobby which fewer and fewer of us are taking up. To that end I have made the early EeZeBilt templates, box art and instructions available, and generated a few new examples more suitable for modern radio control.
As well as making the basic hulls, kids would save up to buy plastic fittings for their craft, so I have started to create a range of ship's fittings for this purpose - all free downloads, for resin printers. A month ago I announced that I had put up a couple of sample 'virtual kits' including these - http://eezebilt.tk/Seakit.html and http://eezebilt.tk/OSAkit.html refer...
There was reasonable interest - within a day over 100 people went to download sets of plans.  But only 2 people downloaded the .STL files for printing out the resin fittings. This surprised me - there had been a lot of discussion about 3-D printing and I had assumed that quite a few people would have these printers and would appreciate free files for cleats, fairleads, sirens, etc. But it appears not. Or perhaps I am not putting out what the market wants....? 
 

[Circlip]

Whereas 3D printing can create wonderful shapes they do compromise modelling skills. They have certainly changed the 'How do I make?' to 'Where can I buy?' To state they will take over skills is hogwash, Lasers, waterjet, photo-etch processes all have their parts to play  to make life 'easier' but will never replace traditional methods. In the event of a power cut - - - - - . In the recent u-tub posted by Martin, the amount of scrap plastic produced as supports for the chassis on the Tug on Wheels ensures the tree huggers have plenty of ammunition for waste.
  Having said that, the three 'Minions' 'Created' to a specific size for me on eldests new 'Toy' save a lot of searching. Just like Asbestos, answers looking for problems.


 Regards  Ian.

[Andyn]

the amount of scrap plastic produced as supports for the chassis on the Tug on Wheels ensures the tree huggers have plenty of ammunition for waste.

Guess you’ve never heard of recycling filament 

Long term, do you really think people will be using traditional skills? I certainly don’t. The real hogwash here is you thinking 3d modelling doesn’t involve skill…

[chas]

Years ago a club member berated me for getting an electric fretsaw, you're losing skills he said. Around 80 models on from that I'm considering a resin printer to make some of the fittings that give my old hands a problem. I won't be losing skills, just getting another tool to make life easier. I still love working with wood and metal best, but I find new tools and methods great fun too. Maybe I'm wrong but the idea of people stopping using wood etc seems ludicrous, I can't see that happening.
   I have a question about the resin used, does anyone have any facts about how long they will last? I've seen and heard some opinions,  but not found a study about the lifespan.
Charles

[dodgy geezer]

I suspect that a distinction should be made here between someone who wants a model boat so pushes a button to get one, and someone who is making an Elco PT boat, and decides that those odd-shaped cowls over the engine room are best modelled by drawing them up from the original pattern in a 3-D CAD package before printing them to a precise scale as a one-off.
The first example is closer to the boater who prefers sailing, and buys his boats from Amazon, while the second is simply taking advantage of a modern tool to create a specific shape. 

Mind you, I suspect that not very many people are actually creating, or, indeed, using these 3-D print files as opposed to discussing them. So modelling skills are safe enough for the moment. 3-D printing is mainly used for fittings currently, and I never heard people complaining that the 1950s 'Mersey Marine' range of plastic fittings was stifling true craftsmanship...
 

[Circlip]

"To state they will take over skills" is hogwash,

  Doesn't state what you think you read Andyn? and yes, I have heard of recycling filament but I wonder how many do? and what is the material degradation with respect to 'Proper' injection molding as once cooked, only a small percentage of regrind can be used. Despite the two systems may SEEM to be different, they both rely on fusing molten plastic to itself.

     Regards  Ian.