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Author Topic: Steam Driven Boat  (Read 6737 times)

CERES

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Steam Driven Boat
« on: July 30, 2007, 09:25:05 pm »

 :) :)Hi,
I am on a learning curve in building up one of those simple static steam engines with a view of eventually having one power a model boat.
I have seem to have adopted two left hands or something like that because my problem is now soldering copper tube to brass.
The model is on final assembly and quite a bit of soldering has so been achieved, but this one is giving me a headache.
Parts are spottessly clean and flux plus lead solder is being used. A soldering iron by Hilka with a 25w output. The solder softens correctly to melting but then runs off. Has anybody got a clue?
My solder is fairly old about 30 years the same with the flux paste. Many thanks Bernard. ??? ???
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Tug-Kenny RIP

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Re: Steam Driven Boat
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2007, 09:54:16 pm »


Hi Ceres

My first reaction is that the Soldering Iron is not hot enough. The copper or Brass has to be the temperature of the lead or else it will not 'Flow' at all, but run off, as you describe. You may have to try a larger Iron or maybee a blowlamp !!

There are several ways of heating this up, but I am not qualified enough to help you with Boat soldering. There have been articles about it on Mayhem, so perhaps others may be able to help you.

Cheers...Ken
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Colin H

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Re: Steam Driven Boat
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2007, 10:23:42 pm »

Hi Ceres,

Age will not matter with solder providing you clean the solder first other wise it will have oxydisation (not the correct spelling) on the outer surface and this will transfer to the metals to be soldered. Age can affect flux though this is unusual.

At 25 watts I think your iron is to small, are you appling the heat correctly, should be as follows.

The brass will take longer to heat up but the copper will transfer heat quicker. So Apply the heat source to the brass not to the solder or copper. If your iron is big enough after a few minutes the solder will melt by heat transference and the copper will be already hot enough.

If using this method the solder does not melt you require a larger heat source.

One word of warning once the solder has run remember that the three metals will cool at different rates. Therefore do not disturb the joint or it will crack.

Let me know how you get on.

Yours Colin H.
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RickF

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Re: Steam Driven Boat
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2007, 11:20:03 pm »

I would agree with the above - not enough heat. Buy yourself a gas blowlamp.

Rick
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Bee

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Re: Steam Driven Boat
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2007, 01:35:48 pm »

blowlamp is too fierce. First try one of those gun shaped 100W trigger controlled irons.
http://www.tool-up.co.uk/shop/diy/WEL9200UD.html?id=QCyyuqcI
This will handle eg 3inch sqare rudder.
If this is not enough you can apply bacground heat with paint stripper gun or blowlamp.
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sheerline

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Re: Steam Driven Boat
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2007, 04:05:06 pm »

Sounds like the other chaps have hit the nail on the head.... insufficient heat. If a blowtorch is too large and fierce either get a larger iron or if you can get help, try two soldering irons on the job at the same time! I personally swear by the temperature controlled irons and mine is a 48W variable temp type. They are not too expensive if you look around and will solder anthing from an IC electronic chip to the small bore pipework of my recently built oscillating engine. Temperature range is adjustable from 150oC to 420oC and they last for years.
Well worththe investment if you want to do more of this kind of thing.
Chris
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Colin H

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Re: Steam Driven Boat
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2007, 05:20:18 pm »

Bernard,

Whilst I agree with most of the above I would like to piont out that B&Q Depot do a minature refillable gas blow lamp that comes complete with different soldering iron heads in one package for less than £20 and if you are over 60 years you can get a further 10% off an a Weds.

This make a very versitile package and whilst a little more skill is needed than when using a temperature controlled iron I find it worth while for the many different jobs it can do.

Many people find soldering difficult but if you follow basic rules it really is one of the most simple of tasks.

If you continue to have problems let me know and I will see what I can do to help.

Colin H.
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Bunkerbarge

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Re: Steam Driven Boat
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2007, 06:24:28 pm »

A blowlamp is not too fierce.  It depends on the lamp and the way in which you use it, either way it is far more controllable for the majority of soft and silver soldering jobs.

I have now put together my plany of boiler, engine, gas tank, seperator, water pump and all pipework and it has all been assembled with silver solder and a blowlamp.  The most important factor is control and to give you that control you need a good working area that will maintain the temperature.

I use a number of small, very lightweight bricks, obtainable from most shows and suppliers, and arrange them into a small hearth.  You have to think for each job how the heat is going to dissipate and then prevent it from doing so.  If you put your copper pipe in the vice for instance the heat will go straight into the vice and you will never get it hot enough.  If you put it into a little drilled hole in your fire brick the brick will prevent the heat loss and the pipe will heat up and stay hot considerably easier.  If you put another brick behind it to prevent any radiation losses as well you will transform the whole process.

All my brass fittings were silver soldered to the copper pipe using these type of techniques.  For very small work I use a very small petrol blow lamp, which is very handy and for anything bigger I use the B&Q type of blow torch with the appropriate nozzle fitted.  You can easily control the flame to suit the job and after a bit of practise you will be turning the flame up and down as you need while you are applying the rod with the other hand.  I usually aim the flame at the brass fitting to get the heat into that in the knowledge that the copper pipe will be already up to temperature as soon as the brass is.  If you aim the flame at the copper pipe the brass fitting will never get up to temperature.

If you want to use an iron you will not be able to use silver solder and even for soft solder it is more of a struggle to get the temperature into the parts evenly.  For a steam plant I would highly recommend a blowtorch and silver solder rods with a flux coating as this will give you a much stronger and higher heat resisting joint.

Colin hit the nail on the head when he said that soldering is really very simple if you think about what is happening and apply a few very basic laws of physics. When you get it right all you have to do is rub off the flux with a bit of wet and dry, polish with a bit of brasso and you will amaze yourself at what a neat proffessional job you can achieve.
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CERES

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Re: Steam Driven Boat
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2007, 07:03:07 pm »

 :D :D :DMany thanks to you all for this valued information. Following your advice a got hold of a small gas blow torch and "Hey Presto" it did the trick, thanks again. What would I have done without Modelboatmayhem.
I have also taken on board details of the varying wattage of irons in particular the 45w variable. Bernard.
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