Technical, Techniques, Hints, and Tips => Painting, Finishing and Care. => Topic started by: wrasse on October 02, 2020, 02:17:40 am
Title: Recommendation for airbrush acrylic paint brands please
Post by: wrasse on October 02, 2020, 02:17:40 am
For years now I have been a devout Humbrol enamel paint fan. Always brush painted my models. I have decided that I would like to take up airbrushing and start using acrylics to avoid the fumes from the oil based paints as I would be doing it indoors as winters here are very cold and spraying enamel outdoors is not feasible.. I am looking for recommendations on which brands people prefer and why. I am currently doing builds of Mountfeelts Boston Typhoon and Mountfleets St. Nectan. There is a variety on material in the kits, wood, GRP, white metal, and so on. I have read very good things on the Stynylrex primers and will them a go. Any recommendation for acrylic paints that would be good for airbrushing as well has hand painting these kit would be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Opinions wanted on switching from oil based enamels to water based acrylics
Post by: Martin (Admin) on October 02, 2020, 12:38:15 pm
Have a look at: Re: Oldiron's Airbrush Tutorial - https://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,27859.0.htm
Title: Re: Opinions wanted on switching from oil based enamels to water based acrylics
Post by: dougal99 on October 02, 2020, 12:48:51 pm
I use Tamiya acrylics as well as car paint aerosols. However, I find they don't brush very well needing at least two coats to get an acceptable finish. I also think their colour range is a bit limited but I've yet to try other brands. You probably know this but, as acrylics dry quickly one needs to clean the airbrush as soon as spraying is complete.
Title: Re: Opinions wanted on switching from oil based enamels to water based acrylics
Post by: Akira on October 02, 2020, 01:39:26 pm
I know that this does not answer your question, directly, but I'll throw it out anyhow. not long ago a friend, who builds beautiful scratch wood boats, told me of going to Home Depot and Lowes ( 2 large "box" stores over here) and buying and using sample paints on his builds. I was skeptical but though to try it myself. I borrowed a color chart from another gent and took it in, had it scanned by the machines in the paint departments and they mixed up samples of t paints I requested. I came away with four samples, two from each store, and tried them when I got home. I found that as acrylics they covered very well, perhaps even too thick. But, that was solved with a few drops of water, to my taste. Brushed on they leveled beautifully. They are exterior acrylics and I will seal them when I am done. All told I spent about $25 US and have enough paint for many boats. Just another way to skin the cat...poor cat.
Title: Re: Opinions wanted on switching from oil based enamels to water based acrylics
Post by: Tug Fanatic on October 02, 2020, 02:11:09 pm
I am probably 100% wrong but this is a suitable place to air of problem that I can see might be true as it relates to using either solvent based or water based paints.
Solvent paints & enamels might have the ability to soften the surface of any previously applied paint and thus create a chemical bond between the layers. This might also be true of a primer and final lacquer layer.
Water based paints, including acrylics, hopefully do not soften the surface when the next layer of water based paint is applied so any bonding between the layers would be mechanical only even if the mating surface is carefully prepared. This would also apply to any solvent based lacquer that is added as a final coat.
This, together with a nasty feeling about water based paint in a pond of water, are the reasons that I have only used water based paints on the superstructure of models preferring to rely on traditional enamels for hulls.
I am aware that the solvents that can be used these days are different to those that were used and are, I suspect, a compromise.
Is there anything in this or am I just being excessively cautious?
Title: Re: Opinions wanted on switching from oil based enamels to water based acrylics
Post by: rsm on October 02, 2020, 02:20:25 pm
Tamiya acrylics spray well, but don't go on on well with a brush. Humbrol and Revell are the only other acrylics I've used and they both spray and brush paint fine. I've only used the manufacturer recommended thinners for these paints which seem to be propanol based for Tamiya and water based for the other two. To make sure they are completely waterproof I sprayed them with several coats of Halfords satin lacquer, this gives a nice finish and is unaffected by water.
Title: Re: Opinions wanted on switching from oil based enamels to water based acrylics
Post by: Mark T on October 02, 2020, 02:29:06 pm
I use Vallejo acrylics through my airbrush. They cover well and it’s an easy clean up. I then give it a coat of Matt polyurethane from a rattle can. Looks nice and lasts.
Title: Re: Opinions wanted on switching from oil based enamels to water based acrylics
Post by: Akira on October 02, 2020, 02:35:43 pm
Acrylics on my hulls hold up fine, especially considering how long the hulls remain in the water. To address the concern of acrylics exposed to water, an over spray sealant solves most issues there, while at the same time applying a nice matt or satin or gloss finish.
Title: Re: Opinions wanted on switching from oil based enamels to water based acrylics
Post by: tonyH on October 02, 2020, 03:56:03 pm
I'm with Mark. Vallejo work very well for me for brushing, even for a 4ft hull, over Halfords primer (as long as you use the right primer). I tend to use their own thinning medium rather than water and coats seem to lose their brush marks very well. Great colour range as well. Tony
Title: Re: Opinions wanted on switching from oil based enamels to water based acrylics
Post by: Martin (Admin) on October 02, 2020, 04:50:10 pm
Before you go a bundle on Vallejo paints, especially their primers, watch this, very useful I found!
A primer on primers:
Title: Re: Opinions wanted on switching from oil based enamels to water based acrylics
Post by: wrasse on October 02, 2020, 06:49:54 pm
Yes, I have tried the Vallejo primers in the past and found they did not adhere properly to most surfaces as well as other primers. I have not however tried any of their paint lines.. only the primers
Title: Re: Opinions wanted on switching from oil based enamels to water based acrylics
Post by: RST on October 02, 2020, 11:34:22 pm
I can't help much apart from saying I gave up on Humbrol and now almost always use Revell enamels. Difference is night and day, Revell is much better.
As for airbrushing I pretty much only ever used Tamiya with an 0.5 nozzle on my Iwata (I think, maybe 0.6mm), the cheap 0.3mm chinese airbrush I started with was just a a disaster and a waste of money apart from the compressor it came with. I use only the Tamiya thinner which isn't expenisive but these paints are solvent based and a bit unlike other acrylics. They brush well in very small areas but not over bigger ones as they dry so fast.
...I can't comment too much on paint choices but just to say with airbruishing it's not quite like rattle cans, you really need good extraction. Also, a good half face respirator is a total must and not expensive, both need sorting first. Airbrush aerosols are so much smaller and hang in the air a lot longer whether you notice the smell or not. You absolutely need a proper half face respirator unless you're totally sre you have big fume extraction -and that usually draws paint away towards the vent(s).
Title: Re: Opinions wanted on switching from oil based enamels to water based acrylics
Post by: RST on October 02, 2020, 11:40:45 pm
...Sorry, meant to say but as for cleaning the airbrush I made my own cleaner pot from a u/s "barista" coffe tin, a bit of cooker extraction hood filter medium and a small plastic funnel. It seems to work OK as a run-through for airbrush and a dump for cleaner. You can look-up how to make these things for a few pence, or just buy one for a good few bucks.
Title: Re: Opinions wanted on switching from oil based enamels to water based acrylics
Post by: wrasse on October 02, 2020, 11:45:20 pm
...Sorry, meant to say but as for cleaning the airbrush I made my own cleaner pot from a u/s "barista" coffe tin, a bit of cooker extraction hood filter medium and a small plastic funnel. It seems to work OK as a run-through for airbrush and a dump for cleaner. You can look-up how to make these things for a few pence, or just buy one for a good few bucks.
I do have a spray booth that I constructed for airbrushing. Are you referring to the Tamiya acrylic paints or the Oil based paints?
Title: Re: Opinions wanted on switching from oil based enamels to water based acrylics
Post by: RST on October 03, 2020, 12:21:53 am
I do have a spray booth that I constructed for airbrushing. Are you referring to the Tamiya acrylic paints or the Oil based paints?
...I made no distinction between paint types, just a "run through" pot at the end of spraying then putting cleaner through -whatever paint you use. You can buy pots for running through sprays for upwards of 40 quid, or I think just make them yourself DIY style as long as you have a decent exhaust and capture the liquid. I found it much easier to use one for getting rid of lats few drops in the cup and cleaning afterwards -youtube is full of airbrushing tips like this.
Title: Re: Opinions wanted on switching from oil based enamels to water based acrylics
Post by: tonyH on October 03, 2020, 10:05:08 am
I've, fortunately it appears, never tried the Vallejo primer -thanks for the film Martin - because I've normally got a selection of car spray primers. I just decant the right, etch, plastic etc, one into the lid for brushing. Tony
Title: Re: Opinions wanted on switching from oil based enamels to water based acrylics
Post by: Akira on October 03, 2020, 02:01:04 pm
A very informative video. Thanks for posting it. One thing that I did not see addressed and this thread seems to have missed as well is the issue of paints and 3D printed parts. As they are becoming prevalent the need to address it become more important. I have seen mixed reports on what types of paint CAN be used in #D parts, but it also depends upon what type of plastic the part is printed from. Some not accept anything but Acrylic while others seem to tolerate enamels and maybe laquer, although I have never tried the latter. Having been a advocate of FloQuil paints for years I was very resist to using acrylics, but when I finally tried them I was pleasantly surprised. I have used Vellajo primer, but I tend to brush it on. large areas I spray. I found it to be similar to the Model Master acrylic which I liked. Sadly the latter is no long being made. I do remember an early lesson when I sprayed Floquil on the styrene gun shields of a battleship. I came back hours later to find that they had wonderful bends and curves in the plastic....where there were NOT suppose to be any. Nothing says that we can not use different paints on different parts, either.
Title: Re: Opinions wanted on switching from oil based enamels to water based acrylics
Post by: Mark T on October 03, 2020, 04:30:57 pm
I must be honest when I'm using Vallejo acrylic I don't use any primer at all. I've found that if I degrease and clean what ever's being airbrushed the paint sticks extremely well. I'm talking about parts here as I've never tried it on a hull.
Title: Re: Opinions wanted on switching from oil based enamels to water based acrylics
Post by: wrasse on October 03, 2020, 06:37:45 pm
Thank-you for the information on Vallejo.
Title: Recommendation for airbrush acrylic paint brands please
Post by: wrasse on October 08, 2020, 09:11:05 pm
Would like to find out what brands of acrylic paints people are having success with using an air brush. Will want to use them on multiple surfaces. Will of course be using a primer first...
Title: Re: Recommendation for airbrush acrylic paint brands please
Post by: phil_parker on October 09, 2020, 10:11:55 am
The paints from Airbrushes.com are all good quality - https://airbrushes.com/ - and they are always good for helpful advice too.
Title: Re: Recommendation for airbrush acrylic paint brands please
Post by: morley bill 1 on October 09, 2020, 11:29:43 am
hi ive been using tamiya paints for many years use tamiya thinners they spray very well...Bill
Title: Re: Recommendation for airbrush acrylic paint brands please
Post by: red181 on October 12, 2020, 11:24:18 pm
b&q tester pots, and for larger areas, for a couple of quid, they will supply a small pot of any colour you want, just take the paint swatch to the mixing counter, or take a sample of what you want and they scan it. Thin with screenwash or window cleaner, I use screenwash, and use a clear matt, satin or gloss clear laquer, depending on the finish you want. I spray at 30 to 40psi, and clean the airbrush a lot! It also brushes on nice, depending on the surface. Im more planes now, but used same method on some of the boats, here are examples, the catalina was brush painted, with an airbrush to get the feathering effect, the zero was airbrushed, and the YAK jet was airbrushed, all using these paints
Title: Re: Recommendation for airbrush acrylic paint brands please
Post by: Mike S on October 14, 2020, 07:53:40 pm
Excellent advice from Red161. Personally I use Dulux tester pots from B&Q. There are a good range of colours and are for kitchen and bathroom, so tough, hard-wearing, and waterproof. The kitchen range are matt, and the bathroom range satin. I thin them with window and glass cleaner, (Windolene or Mr Muscle, other brands are available!), 10 -15% for brush application, 40 - 50% for airbrushing. We have to think 'outside the box' these days with the sad demise of the local model shop.
Title: Re: Recommendation for airbrush acrylic paint brands please
Post by: Martin (Admin) on October 15, 2020, 01:55:22 am
Topics merged :-)
Title: Re: Recommendation for airbrush acrylic paint brands please
Post by: Tug Fanatic on October 15, 2020, 09:42:40 am
...................................... I thin them with window and glass cleaner, (Windolene or Mr Muscle, other brands are available!), 10 -15% for brush application, 40 - 50% for airbrushing......................
There are lots of anti grease chemicals including the white vinegar and water mix that we use.
What is the ingredient that you are looking for in your window cleaner and what are you looking for it to achieve that deionised water would not?
Title: Re: Recommendation for airbrush acrylic paint brands please
Post by: Mike S on October 16, 2020, 07:41:00 pm
Hi Tug Fanatic,
I am just using window/glass cleaning stuff because I've got it in the kitchen cupboard and it works.
Next time I'm in Halfords stocking up on modelling basics, P38 / 40, Wet'n Dry, rattle-can primers, tack rags, etc. I'll get some de-ionised water as well.
Thanks for the tip!
Mike
Title: Re: Recommendation for airbrush acrylic paint brands please
Post by: Martin (Admin) on October 16, 2020, 11:53:47 pm
I've heard Alloy wheel cleaner works well as a de-greaser....
Title: Re: Recommendation for airbrush acrylic paint brands please
Post by: Tug Fanatic on October 17, 2020, 08:41:49 am
Mike S I am not recommending de ionised water. I have always painted with enamels so have had no reason to try it. I just thought that if water cleans your brushes then it should dilute the paint!
I just would like to know what it is about window cleaner that makes it desirable as a dilutant.
Martin Brake cleaner is widely used as a degreaser.
Title: Re: Recommendation for airbrush acrylic paint brands please
Post by: Mark T on October 17, 2020, 01:31:20 pm
Mike S I am not recommending de ionised water. I have always painted with enamels so have had no reason to try it. I just thought that if water cleans your brushes then it should dilute the paint!
I just would like to know what it is about window cleaner that makes it desirable as a dilutant.
Martin Brake cleaner is widely used as a degreaser.
I know that if you can get it some people use Windex. It has ammonia and isopropyl in it both of which are degreasers as far as I know. I have to be honest though......I just buy Vallejo thinners, cleaner and flow improver. I think I've replaced them once in 4 years. It works great and does what it says on the tin and when you work out how little you use its not actually that expensive.
Title: Re: Recommendation for airbrush acrylic paint brands please
Post by: Railbob on October 30, 2020, 05:57:55 pm
I’m currently using Valspar wood and metal satin for my HMS Javelin, I was using Halfords Ford Polar Grey but it was expensive at £7.50 a go.A 1l tin from B&Q is around £21 and will last me quite a few models. If anyone wants to buy some just go to the Valspar paint desk in any B&Q store and ask for “Royal Navy Grey NARN 22” as the mix is stored online 👍