Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Steam => Topic started by: Jerry C on February 17, 2014, 07:06:19 pm
-
OK, I'm back and feel the need for steam, so here's the plan. I want to scratch build a 4 1/2" to 5 1/2" Scotch return flue boiler, all the fittings, where possible, and an up-scaled version (loose crib) of the TVR1A engine. Finally put the lot in another Launch half as big again as S.L.Wear. However to speed things up I intend to use a GRP hull of some sort.
I have been kindly lent a Taig/Peatol lathe and with the assistance of some Christmases and birthdays I've kitted it out with all it's accessories including the milling attachment.
Over the last year I've been watching MRPETE222/Tubalcain on youtube learning as much as I can suck in.
As with my steam launch build I will put as much on the forum as I'm able and hope it will be of use to you.
Watch this space.
Jerry.
-
Just a thought Jerry, did you see the Piston valve engine that "Bogstandard" built, pretty powerful and made from bar stock???, drawing are provided I believe on Paddleducks site.
Mike
-
Thanks Mike. I'll look into it.
Jerry.
-
http://www.machinistblog.com/bogstandards-paddleduck-engine-plans/ (http://www.machinistblog.com/bogstandards-paddleduck-engine-plans/)
Its moved, plus a video of it running
Mike
-
Hi Jerry I also have a taig lathe and has great potential .I built this 5/8 " x 3/4" mostly brass stainless steel and cast iron and have run on steam plenty grunt so far and will be turning 85mm prop on my clinker launch
Cheers
John
-
Great news! Jerry's back in the building business :-))
Looking forward to this one.
Greg
-
I have a peatol lathe, it is surprisingly competent for its size.
I used it for the turning required for the engines pictured. These are paddleduck engines.
Build log here:
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,22541.0.html
Ian
-
Thanks for the input guys, it's good to know the lathe's up to the job. Hopefully here's a pic of the Taig lathe in my arrangement. We threw out an old nest of tables so I wizzed the legs off the biggest and mounted Lathe, motor and switchgear on the top. I drilled numerous holes in the base to put the most used tools in handy places to help keep me tidy when working. As I seem to be unable to put my pics in a post where I would like them to be in relation to the text. I'm going to do one pic per post.
Jerry.
-
Could do with a cover between the lathe and the motor slots Jerry. It saves the next question.
Regards Ian.
-
Do you have to stretch over a spinning lathe to reach the on/off switch?
Ned
-
Isn't a stretch, but as the basic material to be turned is hard brass, it's surprising how far the "Spray" of turnings travels, so the type of switch used and its position means it possibly won't last long. Brass is an excellent conductor and gravity acts downwards.
Regards Ian.
-
I started off by making some ferrule nuts in 1/4" x 40tpi 5/16" A/F. I copied some that I bought for my previous plant on Wear.
Safety first:- taped up my jacket cuffs with duct tape. Remove all rings and donned rubber gloves, (contact dermatitis), and put on safety specks. Lathe cleaned and lubed.
Please note this lathe is imperial so it's fractions and thou from now on but I'll include the odd mm when it helps.
First problem, the 5/16"A/F bar is too thick to feed through the headstock and into the chuck. This means I had to cut the bar to what will go in the chuck plus 1 1/2" overhang. This means waste as the bit left over when I'd made enough was 3/4".
So what size will go through? A quick check says maximum is 8.5mm,or 11/32" or 0.340".
I was working with 5/16" A/F or 8mm.
1)put stock in chuck with 4x diameter max overhang(got this figure from TUBALCAIN)
2)attached tool holder to cross slide.
3)put tool in holder with minimum overhang.
4)faced off the end of the bar.(noted the little tail in the middle disappeared so tool tip very near to axis)
5)brought up tailstock chuck fitted with 1/4" shank center drill and drilled a center in the end off the hex bar.
6)replaced center drill with 11/64" drill and drilled through for about 4 nuts worth. (this is the clearance hole for 5/32" OD pipe as will be using collets not ferrules).
7)drill 7/32" x 0.220" deep.
8)put 1/4" x 40tpi M.E. taper tap in chuck. This keeps tap square to the work.
9)turning the 3 jaw chuck by hand(unplug motor) gently feed tap into work until thread well started, back out and replace with plug tap and finish thread to 7 1/2 turns.
10)measure depth of hole and add 24thou for depth of nut.
11)turn away the hexagon on the end of the nut for 75thou, leaving a 45deg slope on the hex. Make note of depth setting on cross slide wheel.
12)then mirror cut on other end
13)cut or file small chamfer on sharp edges/ holes before finally parting off holding a toothpick in the finished nut so it doesn't get lost.
14)quick polish on buffing station.
repeat until stock too short for chuck.
Simples.
Hopefully here come the pics.
Jerry.
-
Thanks Ian and Ned, all well received re switch and motor vents.
Here's the finished article. The turning I did dry with no cutting fluid. For drilling and tapping I used the last of my Rocol RTD left over from a previous life.
Jerry.
-
Next I made some collets.
1)fed 12" x 1/4" round bar through the chuck with 1" overhang. (too much overhang and things get noisy and juddery as tool force bends the stock off its axis). Faced off the end.
2) center drill the end.
3) drilled 5/32" for pipe.
4)turned down from 1/4" to 7/32" diameter.
5)Part off at 45deg for 1st one.
6)part off at 90deg for 2nd one
repeat as required.
I understand that this may be teaching lots of nanas to suck eggs but the idea is to show peeps, who may think they can't do it, my thought process and how I find things out and learn myself. Any constructive criticism, advice or safety comments are welcome.
I hope this thread will give peeps the push they need to get started.
I'm using a tiny, imperial, American lathe.I know it's not a Myford, or an Atlas etc. but it's what I've got.
Jerry.
-
Nice work.
I made a cheap simple dro for my peatol. Its a digital tyre depth guage with magnets fitted to the base to hold it on the bedplate and a socket turned to hold a magnet on the depth spindle - easy, cheap and v effective.
I would also recommend you look at a rear parting tool for this lathe, it makes a world of difference!
Ian
-
Next I tried my hand at making a complete, 90deg valve, using some drawings obtained from a friend.
This is as far as I got before breaking the last tip on my only center drill. I meant to order 6 from Tracy Tools (also from a previous life) when I ordered my taps & dies but left them off the list, doh! Moral, order before getting down to last one.
Jerry.
ps. Ian, ref back tool. I got the back tool holder and you're right, its brilliant. I didn't know what it was at first until I put it alongside the original tool holder and saw it was a bit taller. A good while later I twigged I needed to put the tool in inverted.
A pic of your dro in situ would be great. Digital Read Out ( I had to look that up too!) but that's what this is all about.
-
Here you go.
I have also included a pic of the diamond tool holder, another great bit of kit, easy to use, sharpen and set up. I now use it almost exclusively for straight turning, it gives great results.
Got mine here:
http://www.eccentricengineering.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2&Itemid=17
Ian
-
Just to clarify, "Spray" I referred to was the shower of fine swarf that's thrown off when turning Brass. Brass is also one of the few materials that don't need a coolant or lubrication when being turned, drilled, tapped or milled and NO top rake on cutting tools.
Regards Circlip (tother Ian.)
-
Thanks again Ian and Circlip. put a sheet of plasticard stuck to the motor and keeps the motor clean. As for the switch it seems to stay clean itself. Now I've seen the depth gauge in place I understand. Simple but as you say cheap but effective.
I ordered half a dozen center drills, should be here tomorrow so in the meantime carried on and made the spindle.
1) put a foot of 3/16" stainless steel in the chuck and faced off the end.
2) turned the first 1/4" down to 0.0865".
3) cut an 8 BA thread in it.
4) turned 2nd diameter down to 0.115" for 5/8".
5) turned 3rd diameter down to 5/32" for 3/8".
6) cut 5/32" x 40tpi thread.
7) parted off leaving a 90deg point on the end.
Nearly there.
Jerry.
-
Yes I noted the Tracey tools ( 6 mile from me ) catalogue in one of your photos. Although I use my lathe most days I am always looking for new tips, so I will be watching your excellent post. One of my projects below. Hammer
-
Yes Gerry C :-))....watching with interest from afar......... O0
hammar.....that's a funny looking paddle wheel arrangement :D.......Derek
-
You should know me by now Derek, try any thing once. %%
-
I love tinterweb. 6 center drills and (Cos I'm having issues with wandering drills and a little eccentricity) some stub drills arrived this a.m.
So started on the valve wheel.
1)Faced off some 9/16 bar.
2)Turned 5/8" down to 1/2"
3)Center drill (spot only)
4)Drill for 8BA.
5)Tap hole 8BA.
6)Put Knurling tool into tool holder,offered wheels to c/l, wound them down until in contact with work, backed out slide, wound down 1 turn. wound the slide back in until left end of wheels made contact with work 1/8" from end of work. Switched on lathe on slowest speed, put plenty oil about. fed the slide in to c/l. wheels turning OK so fed the knurls up the work slowly until made contact with step, then backed out.
7) switched off and gave the work a wipe and RESULT, my first knurl.
I should add that while I was in the shed a'knurlin', I missed GB(Scotland) win the bronze a'curlin'!!! BZ Ladies!!!!
8) chamfered end with file.
9) removed top center with boring tool.
10)used parting tool to remove underneath to 3/16".
11) parted off leaving a 1/16" depth boss.
Final job on lathe was to make the separate outlet male union but forgot to take pics.
boiled the body and nozzle in washing up liquid, rinsed, dried fluxed and silver soldered in position. Again forgot to take a pic before I put it in to pickle. Tomorrow, OK?
Jerry.
-
Next I made some collets.
1)fed 12" x 1/4" round bar through the chuck with 1" overhang. (too much overhang and things get noisy and juddery as tool force bends the stock off its axis). Faced off the end.
2) center drill the end.
3) drilled 5/32" for pipe.
4)turned down from 1/4" to 7/32" diameter.
5)Part off at 45deg for 1st one.
6)part off at 90deg for 2nd one
repeat as required.
I understand that this may be teaching lots of nanas to suck eggs but the idea is to show peeps, who may think they can't do it, my thought process and how I find things out and learn myself. Any constructive criticism, advice or safety comments are welcome.
I hope this thread will give peeps the push they need to get started.
I'm using a tiny, imperial, American lathe.I know it's not a Myford, or an Atlas etc. but it's what I've got.
Jerry.
Jerry,
As Ian has said ,machine brass dry, it saves having to clean and degrease before Silver soldering.
When you are making the ferules cut them at 30deg ( 60 deg included ) not 45 deg, as the center drills have a 30 deg angle and when you drill into the female part to take your pipe it is a better fit.
Also machine the O/All dia of the ferules to a tad under 7/32" as when tapping the holes in the nut the thread becomes a little proud and the ferule will not fit into the nut.
Well done with your little lathe.
George.
-
I had a great time with my daughter in Cardiff and at the Millennium Stadium watching Wales play France in the Six Nations series. Terrific atmosphere both inside and outside the stadium. Man those French guys know how to party!
Anyway, back to the valve. I finished it last week but it leaked, so this morning I stripped it down, marked the pointy end of the spindle with magic marker, (I don't have marking blue) and then reassembled it and screwed the valve down before stripping it again and looking at the mark made in the ink. It's the eccentricity problem so I shipped the compound top slide and machined a more pointy point on the seating end of the spindle then using one of my new stub drills, re-cut the seat in the valve body. Then I put the body in the 3 jaw chuck and the spindle in the Jacobs chuck with a dab of fine grinding past on the seat of the spindle and gave the seat a quick grinding by hand. I gave everything a good clean, re-assembled valve and it's now tight and not passing.
Back to the eccentricity problem, I suspect the tail stock or top slide is not quite right, so with this in mind I've ordered an imperial dial gauge and magnetic stand kit from Chronos because he's been very helpful to me over the phone in the past. I should have got one earlier I know but put it off. I'll have to get a small parallel test bar and also, for the milling vice, some small parallels.
Any way, after a long time and a quick polish using a 4" multi-metal polishing kit from Metal Polishing Supplies UK Ltd mounted on one end of my Aldi/Lidl Parkside 300watt 6" bench grinder, Its finished.
I've also noticed I've got 4 thou backlash on the cross slide. I don't think it's a problem but can't see a way of removing the slop. The thread runs in a slotted brass bush attached to the underside of the slide. The slot gives the impression that it's possible to squeeze the block and thus tighten it up. That goes against the grain with me so, if anyone out there knows better, I'd be obliged if they'd tell me. Remember it's a Taig/Peatol lathe.
Jerry.
-
The thread runs in a slotted brass bush attached to the underside of the slide. The slot gives the impression that it's possible to squeeze the block and thus tighten it up. That goes against the grain with me so, if anyone out there knows better, I'd be obliged if they'd tell me. Remember it's a Taig/Peatol lathe.
Jerry.
Is it not possible to make your own replacement? with a tighter tolerance.
-
4 thou back lash I wouldn't worry.Just wait till its an 1/8 then buy a new nut
cheers
-
Just make sure you wind the cross slide well back and wind back in to eliminate the backlash.
:-)) Ian
Nice valve by the way
-
4 thou back lash I wouldn't worry.Just wait till its an 1/8 then buy a new nut
cheers
You're close to the mark as it happens. I stripped down the cross slide mechanism to clean and lube it. Turns out that the dome nut on the graduated wheel is a lock nut which locks the wheel on to the threaded bar. By slackening the locknut I could screw the wheel a little more onto the screw before locking the nut. A bit like adjusting cones on a bicycle wheel hub. So backlash now 1 thou.
Jerry.
-
That is good news. A nice fix at no cost
Good luck
-
So, dial gauge arrived on time. It's a bit bigger than expected and will take some getting used to articulating the arm. First job was to strip and clean the 3 jaw chuck. I put 1, 2 & 3 spots on each jaw and on the body nearby for ease of re-assembly. Once stripped down I gave all a good clean in petrol, dried, greased and put it back together again. There was a small ding on the centre rear face in way of the mounting screw. I removed it with a file. Then cleaned and lubed the thread.
Next job was to true up the gripping faces of the soft jaws in the chuck. To do this I put a 1P coin in the chuck and gripped it with the hard part of the jaws. This ensured the chuck is loaded up. I then marked the gripping faces of the soft jaws with magic marker before running the boring tool through and removing the smallest amount from the jaws as shown by the marker. Put a 3/8" tap in the chuck and dial gauged the ground shank and got half a thou run out. I don't have a parallel test bar so I shipped the Jacobs chuck on the tail stock sliding centre, loaded the tap in it then put the dial gauge articulated arm in the 3jaw so that I could run the tip of the gauge around the taps shank. This showed that the tailstock was 5 thou out horizontally. I reset it but was unable to measure vertically as the gauge won't fit underneath the tap. To try and check it I turned a one off centre, left it in the 3 jaw without disturbing it then brought the tailstock centre up to it and visually it's a tiny bit high which means I need to shim the headstock but I'll see how I get on with the next valve.
Today I made a 180 deg inline valve. The spindle, sleeve, nut and wheel are exactly the same as for the 90 deg valve so I'll just write about the main body work.
1) drill a 1/4" hole through some 3/8" hex bar across the flats, centred 5/8" from the end. Measure, mark and centre punch the hole centre then drill through. (I used a large ish pillar drill and started with a small pilot hole and worked my way up to 1/4". It still ended up off centre a bit and I think I need a Taig milling vice to fit the milling attachment as the drill is too big)
2) turn down the hex to 3/8" dia. for 3/4"
3)centre drill the face then drill a 5/64" hole through to the 1/4" hole.
4)drill a 7/32" hole, 3/8" deep and finish hole with a D bit to 1/2" (I don't have a D bit so I used an end mill to get the bottom flat)
5)tap the hole 1/4" x 40 tpi 1/4" deep.
Put the body to one side now and turn to the inlet/outlet tube.
6)put some 1/4" round in the chuck, centre drill, cut a 1/4" x 40tpi thread in the end.
7)drill a hole 3/32" to a depth of 1/2". (this is the inlet side).
8)part off at 1"
9)reverse the part in the chuck and repeat the threading.
10)drill hole 3/32" to a depth of 13/32" (this is the discharge side).
11) degrease, wire wool and flux both pipe and body.
12)drive the 1/4" pipe through hole across the body, even each side.
13)solder together. (I used soft solder not silver, your choice.)
14)re-drill the 5/64" hole in the body, through into the centre of the inlet pipe.
15)freehand drill an angled 5/64" hole adjacent to but clear of the centre hole into the discharge side of the pipe. (Be careful doing this. The original dimensions specified a 3/32" hole in the body centre and into the discharge pipe. When I free handed the last little hole, It wandered into the centre hole and I ruined the piece!!).
The rest is as stated, the same as the previous valve.
I don't use graphite string in the top gland but instead found that the smallest imperial O ring in the last set that Lidl sold is perfik.
Jerry.
-
Nice work Jerry :-))
-
Watching with keen interest ,nice work O0
John
-
Thanks guys. I'm really enjoying myself. Lots of experimentation and puzzles. It's really satisfying when all things come right and the bad noises stop and everything comes together and metal starts flying sweetly. Am even getting engineering type aromas in the workshop. Makes a nice change from woodwork. I've always resented the fact that I was never allowed to do woodwork AND metalwork at school. Kind like cowboys fighting over sheep and cows. I did three years woodwork at school and really, all we ever made was a bedside lamp. If I'd done the same amount of metalwork probably would have ended up with an ashtray. If I think back the only thing I did at grammar school that's been any use to me was Latin and I was crap at that! Nautical school was different all together.
Glad your watching and interested.
Jerry.
-
I also did woodwork at grammar school, it didn't do me much good either.
The only thing that helped me in my chosen career was maths - and I failed that! So, I ran away to sea at 16 and learnt to be an engineer, never looked back since! Learnt that maths much later!
-
I had the same choice at my Grammar school, they could not schedule woodwork metalwork and technical drawing on one timetable, any 2 but not all 3, so I did woodwork, and technical drawing, I did make a table loom for my mum in woodwork, and I have had a full career as a draughtsman. but I still enjoy doing metalwork, and using my little unimat 3 lathe to make stuff. woodwork I did to O levels, but took my technical drawing to A level.
One of the best things my woodwork teacher ever did was when I messed around in class I got detention - lunchtime s spent in the woodwork shop, sanding work. after a weeks worth of lunchtime detentions, I never stopped going to the woodwork shop at lunch times, turning wood bowls, and making stuff right through, I do remember we made wooden boxes with strings to make some sort of musical instrument, though I don't think we got to bring them home.
I was lucky in that for 3 years the school didn't teach latin, so I missed that - a good thing because I am hopeless with languages.
Grendel
-
I only went to a secondary school, They didn't have dyslexia in those days only stupidity. So I was put to the back of the class & forgotten, bottom of my class when I left. But in woodwork I did make a mahogany piano stool with a box under for the music, still have it today 61 years later. Starting work as an apprentice carpenter I was sent on day release to technical collage & was immediately top of the class. Completing my city & guilds in 1957 (when is was a proper qualification), & higher national certificate the following year. Never used these certificates as I was self employed at 18 &retired at 55. Still can't sppel when I get tired. Never had any metal working until 3 years ago. My latest project & the paddle engine top left.
-
Over the weekend I've been making a displacement oiler. I started off on the main body of the oiler made from 1/2" round.
1) cut a piece 1 7/8" long.
2) drill 1/4" hole through from side to side, centred 3/16" from end.
3) put in £ jaw chuck and centre drill, then drill 11/32" hole to a depth of 1 1/2". (Original design called for a 7/16" hole but don't have the taps and dies for that, only got 3/8" x 40 tpi).
4) with boring tool remove as much of the inside of the body as possible down from 1/4" from the top.
5) tap 3/8" x 40 tpi in the top 1/4".
6) turn piece round in chuck and centre drill.
7) drill 5/64" hole through to cavity.
8 drill a 1/4" hole 3/16" x 40 tpi. for drain hole.
9) turn down end to 0.300" for 5/16".
10) used compound slide to put 30 dreg chamfer on the step.
11) used ball turning tool to radius the transition ( could have used a file but wanted to try it out). Had to put the piece in the Jacobs chuck to avoid fouling 3 jaw.
That completes the body.
Jerry.
-
Next piece is the cross pipe.
1) using 1/4" round 1 3/16" long, centre dill and leave a cone.
2) drill and tap a hole 5/32" x 40 tpi 5/8" deep. This is the needle end.
3) drill through 5/64" hole.
4) turn down end to 0.244" for 1/4".
5) cut 1/4" x 40 tpi thread for 3/16".
6) reverse piece in chuck and turn down to 0.244" for 5/16".
7) cut 1/4" x 40 tpi thread for 5/16"
That completes the cross pipe for the moment.
Jerry.
-
Next is the filler cap.
1) Used a short length of 9/16" round and turned it down to 1/2" for a length of 1 3/16".
2) drilled a 2mm hole across the bar centred 1/8" from the end. I used the milling vice in the milling attachment for this operation.
3) put the piece back in the 3 jaw and turned it down to 1/4" for 0.200"
4) chamfered the sharp edges.
5 ) turned down to 3/8" below lip for 3/16" and part off. Turned piece round and put in Jacobs chuck then cut 3/8" x 40 tpi thread the chamfered edge with file.
That completes the cap for now.
Jerry.
-
I'm sorry for the delay in writing this up but other , non-modelling type things cropped up.
There are just the needle(metering) screw, the drain screw and some tidying up to do. So, for the metering screw:-
1) load 1/4" round in 3 jaw.
2) turn down end to7/64" for a length of 3/16".
3) taper end 30 deg using the compound slide.
4) turn down remainder to 0.154 for a length of 3/4".
5) cut 3/32" x 40 tpi for length of 3/8".
6) allow 0.200" for the screw head and part off.
7) drill a 2mm hole through head and solder 2 mm brass rod in head.
Jerry.
-
And finally, the drain screw.
1) from 1/2" round, knurl end for 1/2" length.
2) turn down end to 1/4" for length of 1/4"
3) drill blind hole 5/64" to depth of 21/32" (0.655").
4) leave 3/32" of knurling and turn down to 3/16" for 7/8" length and part off at 0.761".
5) turn piece round and put in Jacobs chuck, ( only 1/4" to get hold of and I have found small work slips in 3 jaw when cutting a thread).
6) turn down end to 1/8" for 3/16" length.
7) cut 50 deg taper using compound slide.
8 mount in milling attachment and drill 5/64" hole through tip, clear of taper and making contact with centre blind hole.
That's all the parts made and all that remains is to solder the cross tube into the body then drill a 1/6" hole through the cross tube, in centre of body. I used a center drill to put a small countersink in the top of this hole. Fit gland nut and o-ring onto metering screw and install into cross tube. Put a fibre washer on cap and screw it and the drain screw on. I also made up a locknut for the other end of the cross tube. A quick polish and voila:-
Jerry.
-
Jerry,
Well done , but please issue a warning that dark glasses are required to view your images.
George;.
-
Looks great but still have concern with the use of soft solder
Cheers
John
-
I made up some sight glass fittings for 5mm glass but wasn't happy with them and have decided to remake them and go for 8mm which I hope will make a more reliable level indicator.
I ordered all the stuff to make the boiler from Blackgates Eng. the other day. The very savvy lady called me back to say they'd run out of all the big tube and cast phosphor bronze round that I need and I'll have to wait 2-4 weeks for it to come in. There must be a lot of boiler makers out there eh? Still, the rest of the stuff is here so I've plenty to get on with. I got some 8mm 20g tube from a plumber for the fire tubes. It's in a coil but no problem to get straight again. Somebody tipped me off about some 3ltr bins in Tesco but when I got there I found the only ones near were brushed aluminium but then the Memsahib spotted some s/s desktop swing-bins in Home Bargains for 3 quid each so she got two. They look to be a perfik fit and are seamless. Will make very nice smoke boxes. Joy!
Nephew, Ben lent me some V blocks, drill vice and marking tools. A friend at the lake gave me a marking out plate? They are apprentice pieces made in the mists of time by a friend of his and are really nice. The large blocks were still covered in thick wax preservative. They will inspire me to perfection every time I look at them. There were also several pairs of parallels. There is some surface rust on most of them so I've rigged up an electrolytic de-ruster out of the battery charger and a solution of washing soda with a couple of old sds drills and chisels for anodes. The first bit has been cooking at <1 amp for 24hrs and is nearly done. The beauty of this process is that it doesn't harm the object.
I've also made a start on the regulator for the steam plant. Picture shows the top half. I don't have an index device yet so drilled by eye in the 4 jaw chuck drilling through to what will be the bottom half so at least the screws will line up. It's a bit of a Horlicks really and unfortunately this means I wont be able to rotate the halves to make 180deg or 90deg outlets but I haven't drilled for the inlet and outlet pipes yet so may be ok. There will be two inlets in the top half, one for steam from the boiler and one for the oiler thereby cutting out a fair bit of pipe work and making a composite unit. Can't see why I didn't think of it before for the first plant.
That's me for a bit, Thanks for watching.
Jerry.
-
Flippin eck Jem, you move quick!
With the electrolysis, is it the strength of the electrolyte that determines the current draw?
Ben
-
Hi Ben, I'm not sure but I think it's more to do with surface area of the piece and the anode. Probably the build up of gas bubbles restricts current flow as it did in the old Leclanché cells.
Jerry.
-
I continued machining the parts for the regulator. After parting off the top I faced off the bottom without removing it from the chuck. Then I used a 1/8" centre drill to make a 1/16" blind hole to locate the head of the valve spindle and finally turned the locating boss. I parted off the bottom and mounted it in the milling attachment and drilled the steam outlet hole and then drilled the counter-bore for the outlet pipe before soldering it in. The final job on the bottom piece was to drill four small holes through the boss, into the steam outlet pipe. The first hole the valve will uncover is 0,75mm dia., followed by a 1.2mm dia. then a 1.4mm dia and lastly a 1.6mm dia. The total cross sectional area of the holes is a little larger then the x sectional area of the bore of the steam pipes. The idea is to get more progression/control then I have on the single hole I presently have on S.L. Wears regulator. The keen eyed amongst you will notice that holes 3 and 4 ran into each other but when the valve faces are lapped together, it shouldn't be a problem.
Next I turned my attention to the valve spindle. I used a length of 1/4" round and turned down the main shaft, then the head, parted off and turned it round in the chuck, before turning it to 3 diameters. I removed it from the 3 jaw and put it in the 1/4" Jacobs chuck which I put in the jaws of the milling vice,( the flat on the back of the chuck ensured the spindle was perpendicular). I then milled two flats on the second diameter which will locate in a corresponding slot in the valve itself. I placed the valve I'm copying on top of a blank I had previously, (not shown here), milled the slot in, and scribed round it. Using the bench grinder and a dremel I ground it down to shape.
Back to the top, bored it out to a good fit on the boss of the bottom leaving a small boss around the spindle hole to locate the wide part of the conical pressure spring. I've yet to source the spring. It forces the floating valve face onto the face of the bottom boss.
I loosely assembled all the parts and added the oiler. It's more compact and does away with some pipe, unions and lagging. Anybody know any reason it won't work?
Jerry.
-
Looks great Jem. Will you be able to test it on the wear plant?
Ben
-
Hi Jerry following your regulator build as I like the lubricator and steam control in one but can you please give me some more detail on the valve and also what retains the spindle in the slot I realize there is a spring to hold the valve against the face so I am assuming the spring will be a larger diameter than the spindle maybe I've missed something if so please excuse
Cheers
John
-
Hi John, the spring is a small, conical coil. It sits between the top body and the widest diameter of the spindle, widest part to the inside of the top, narrowest part to the spindle. It is co-axial to the spindle and it forces the spindle onto the valve keeping it lightly pressed onto the face. When steam enters the top chamber the pressure forces the valve against the face. The cam shaped valve covers the small steam holes. When the spindle is rotated by hand or servo, via the lever I've yet to make it rotates the valve via the slot thus progressively uncovering the holes from small to large. There will be a small peg in the face to limit rotation to 90°. I didn't do a drawing cos I'm copying a complete regulator. If that's still not clear let me know and I'll sketch it for you. Thanks for watching,
Jerry.
-
Got the picture thanks Jerry I have the parts made excluding the spindle so now I can proceed :-))
Thanks
John
-
Hi Jerry,
Excellent work on your new regulator.
Why did you need to copy an original, are they not made any more?
Who supplied the S.L Wear regulator?
Best regards.
AlexC. :-)
-
Hi Alex, can't remember where I got the original. I'm only making a new one cos 1) I want to modify/improve? the type and 2) for satisfaction. If time was money I wouldn't save a penny but I've got plenty of time(God willing)! The original's steam delivery was "all or nothing". I hope this one will have more control. I may square it off later. I particularly liked Derek Decoy's in Oz.
Anybody know where I can get the spring from?
Jerry.
-
Jerry......this is a really vexing question.......spring steel by nature is martensitic so will rust.....the light compression springs from Biro style retractable pens are manufactured from either black phosphated or galvanised wire ....possibly the steam oil carry over would inhibit this rust
Printer cartridges have myriads of smallish austenitic springs with legs....but they are designed to provide longitudinal tension........
The only miniature rust free compression springs I have been involved with were wound from an aluminium bronze wire.........which has mechanical properties similar to spring steel
I trailed my ACS steam regulator a number of years back & it provided very smooth near totally linear steam volume from zero to max...... :-))............
The only problem I have is one night shift....the 1:20 scale Irish laggers put the top face wooden lagging on the regulator atwart ships >>:-( instead of fwd & aft.........
Happy St Patricks day to all {-)...........Derek
-
Thanks Derek, the one in my bought regulator is rust free after two seasons but I've no idea what it's made of. Even if I could remember where I got it from they probably wouldn't be over the moon about me making my own. I'll have to start taking things apart until I find one. Though now I think about it maybe a piece of silicone tube a bit longer than the spindle would be enough to keep the disc on the face until the steam pressure takes over. I'll give that a try.
The next thing on the agenda is a petrol/gasoline blow lamp for a burner. I got one today for £3 at a car boot sale. I'll have to make a new fuel reservoir to take the wick but have no idea what the pressure in the reservoir is if any. I notice the original has a relief valve in the filler cap. I'll repair/restore this one and make a new filler cap to take a pressure gauge and suck it and see. Ideally I would like a low, flat bow shaped tank in order to get the burner nozzle as low down in the hull as possible. If pressure turns out to be high I'll need a long horizontal cylindrical tank.
Jerry.
-
Not sure what size springs you are looking for .The likes of Blackgates sell them by the length
Its not difficult to make youre own and M-Machine sell the wire
Dean W has a good write up on making springs and Marv has a good little prog on his site that calcs the former dia
http://www.deansphotographica.com/machining/projects/projects.html (http://www.deansphotographica.com/machining/projects/projects.html)
cheers
-
Thanks Frazer, that looks the way to go and looks simple enough. Watch this space.
Jerry.
-
Hi Jerry,
The spring in Dereks regulator is made from 24swg Phosphor bronze spring wire.
The spindle is retained by the centre bearing in the top half of the body, so needs no spring.
The spring is fitted between top of the recess in the top body and the valve plate, and only serves to keep the valve plate against the the valve face when no steam, or very low steam pressure, is present... thereafter the steam pressure keeps it in place.
This was done so that the regulator could be mounted vertically, or even upside down.
The spring was 1/4" ID and approx 1" long with around 8 - 10 turns... depending on version/size.
The single steam port in the valve face was equal in size to the bore of the steam pipe (size dependant) and the cam profile was very carefully designed to provide almost linear steam progression over the 90 deg range of movement.
The regulator should be fitted after the lubricator to ensure the moving parts get sufficient lubrication.
How do I know all this... well I designed it back in 2003/4 and manufactured it until I closed ACS Engineering.
Others have copied it since <*< , but it would seem they got the cam profile wrong {-) ... and, by the sound of it, the spindle retention method as well.
Hope this helps.
Best regards.
AlexC. :-))
-
Just thinking Jerry.... :o 20 years ago.... domestic steam irons used a non rusting compression spring of about 20 mm long x 6 mm OD and a wire size close to 24# in the steam dome which was depressed to spray steamy water on the item being ironed
Not sure how Mrs C....would take to you opening her pride & joy of irons {-)
I stand corrected Sandy :o......my previous spring manufacturing experience was with phosphor bronze wire & not aluminium bronze ........... Derek
-
Hi again Alex, all noted. I didn't make provision to retain the spindle by the top bush but I hope it will be OK. If I pull the spindle upwards the spring bottoms out before the spindle dislocates from the valve plate. Thanks for the info though.
Jerry.
-
Hi Guys just browsing around and found this interesting design that works in real size http://schubert-salzer.co.uk/index.php?id=119 might be worth a go :-)
Cheers
John
-
I remember buying a box of assorted springs from a local fixings supplier, they were bright steel - so probably galvanised or plated.
Grendel
-
I've started building up a bit of stock and offcuts so I been a'tidyin' an a'rearangin' of the workshop. I've got metal working type stuff I never had before and it all needs a place to sit naturally and logically. I bought a set of imperial step drills the other day and I put them somewhere that made sense at the time but when I come to look for them I couldn't remember where. Turns out I'd put them in the imperial jobber drill box.
I had a go at the petrol/gasoline, (for them across the pond), blowlamp. Stripped it down, cleaned it, replaced all seals and washers, put in a new wick, filled it and flashed it up. Not a flicker! No fuel getting past the needle to the jet. Removed bottom plug and wick and did a bit of probing up the top of the wick tube where I think there should be a passage into the metering chamber to the jet. No joy there but on top of the metering block is a stub with a threaded but blind hole with a screw in it doing apparently nothing so I ran a drill through into the wick tube then plugged the stub. So now we can get fuel to the jet. Lit it up again and when hot opened the valve and got a medium sized yellow smoky flame but no roar or anything blue. The jet is far too big. Its a "illigitimate" thread size so can't make a new one, so made up a small pin punch and peened/caulked the hole closed then put the smallest drill my chuck will grip (0.3mm) through and gave it another go. A modicum of success, a good blue flame, a nice roar but stopped after a minute. Jet blocked, but also a fuel leak underneath near the wick plug. Repaired soft soldered bottom of reservoir but still seems to have a leak but can't fix it's source. Still we're on the right track.
At a bit of a loose end so decided to mark up the boiler end plates. I gave the 3mm/10swg copper plate a good scrub in detergent, then used a magic marker on half of it, before marking all the centres for pipes, bushes and stays. I bought one of those automatic centre pops. It's ok but you don't half have to give a crack with the hammer to get it to click! (tic)
Problem, all the holes to be drilled are normally imperial but cos I've only got 8mm pipe for the fire tubes and it's not close enough to 5/16" I'm going to have to buy a metric step drill set as well. Bonaparte has got a lot to answer for!! I can't do much more without the rest of the pipe. The big holes for the main fire tube I'm going to have to do the hard way by drilling lots of holes all the way round then filling to the line. At £48 a plate I daren't risk a hole saw. Mine are too wobbly.
Jerry.
-
Jerry,
Don't mark off and drill before you have formed the end plates as you then have a job to line things up if the holes are bored.
I don't see any need to buy step drills, as you have 8 mm copper pipe ( .314" dia ) all that is required is to bore the holes 5/16" dia ( .312" ) at slow speed, then open out with a round file.
As you have already marked everything out, cut the 10 swg plate and when forming put the markings to the inside and then mark off after plates are formed, you will find this the easiest option.
Regarding your auto center punch , any that I have used are only for popping the marks and should never need to be hit with a hammer, after marking with the auto punch you then increase the pop mark with a standard center punch and hammer.
George.
-
Hi George, all received. Was planning to to drill 1/16" centre hole to line up the plate with the centre of the former, then clamp the plate securely to the former before forming, trimming and skimming to size. Can't do the latter in my lathe but I know a man who can. From your experience will this work? Ref the centre punch, tic = tongue in cheek.
Jerry.
-
Hi George, all received. Was planning to to drill 1/16" centre hole to line up the plate with the centre of the former, then clamp the plate securely to the former before forming, trimming and skimming to size. Can't do the latter in my lathe but I know a man who can. From your experience will this work? Ref the centre punch, tic = tongue in cheek.
Jerry.
Jerry,
Do not drill any holes before the end plates are formed as you will never keep the plates central to a drill mark.
Waite until your friend has the end plates on the lathe for skimming and and when skimmed at this point a center can be drilled using a small center drill but not thro' this will give a center for your dividers to scribe all your holes.
George.
-
Keep an eye open in Aldi as they often have metric step drill sets for much cheapness and they are good.
I find the step drills make a neater hole in copper.
Dont scrub the copper get some citric acid it saves the hard work of cleaning up .
Back to the wee guy cycling ok2
Good luck
-
Keep an eye open in Aldi as they often have metric step drill sets for much cheapness and they are good.
I find the step drills make a neater hole in copper.
Dont scrub the copper get some citric acid it saves the hard work of cleaning up .
Back to the wee guy cycling ok2
Good luck
Frazer,
You should be out earning the penny's not playing with wee men cycling .
George.
-
I'm missing something here. Do I make an oak cylinder the same shape as the required inside of the finished end plate? Then bash a piece of copper plate over the end till it takes up the shape of the former. Is it a square plate or a round plate? What diameter should it be? How do I keep the plate centred? I'm beginning to think I've got totally the wrong idea about this procedure.
Jerry.
-
Hi , George I was out earning pennies whilst you were snoring
Measure the Internal dia of youre tube deduct twice the thickness of the flange plate material.Turn the former to that dimension.
Rough cut a disc to the boiler dia plus the flange thickness and a bit for luck
Anneal the plate and start gently tapping the copper over when it starts to become stiff re anneal and restart tapping it over the former repeat until you have formed the plate.
Dont drill any holes or mark out until you are very happy with the flanged plates
I reconise those drawings :-))
Im sure George will elaborate further
Good luck and welcome to the dark art of copper bashing O0
-
Hi , George I was out earning pennies whilst you were snoring
Measure the Internal dia of youre tube deduct twice the thickness of the flange plate material.Turn the former to that dimension.
Rough cut a disc to the boiler dia plus the flange thickness and a bit for luck
Anneal the plate and start gently tapping the copper over when it starts to become stiff re anneal and restart tapping it over the former repeat until you have formed the plate.
Dont drill any holes or mark out until you are very happy with the flanged plates
I recognise those drawings :-))
Im sure George will elaborate further
Good luck and welcome to the dark art of copper bashing O0
As Frazer has described,
Cut your former from oak or any other hard material, turn it to the inside dia of your tube less 2 x thickness of end plate + 1/16" which will allow you to have some meat on the copper end plate for machining to size.
One edge of the former to have approx 3/8" radius to allow the copper to bend.
Make another former the same and sandwich the plate between them and bend over with hammer annealing as required.
Mark off the dia on your plate , inside dia of tube less 2 x thickness of plate, mark another circle to give you 1/2" overlap
then cut out the plates as discs, I use a jig saw with a fine metal blade and clamp the plate down on my workmate.
All that is required is for you to center the plate by eye and go round bending the plate on the former with the radiused edge.
It's a very easy method, I have just made 2- off end plates today in about 1 hr, the secret is to keep heating the copper to above cherry red, plunge in cold water and start bending.
I love it ,it gets rid of a lot of aggression knocking lumps out of the copper.
I would post you some pics but I can't post them since the change over.
Best of luck.
George.
-
Thankyou Frazer and George. I'll give it a go when the pipes arrive and I can confirm the final size.
Jerry.
-
Because of the recent outage of the forum, I have been unable to get anything done, but now it's returned, the shakes have died down so I made a start on the fire tubes. I got a coil of 8mm 20g tube which was coiled by a one armed Orangutang I believe. Straightened it out and cut 19 pieces 5 1/8 long with a pipe cutter. As they were not perfectly straight I annealed them and rolled them straight with a heavy steel plate on a marking out plate. The pipe cutter squashes the ends in a bit and the cut also has a taper to it. This was why I cut them oversize so I could grind the ends to 5" on the sanding station. I rigged up a positioning jig on the table from some scrap. After sizing the ends need de-burring and, as I don't own a proper tool, I started off with a countersink bit in the power drill and trimmed out the insides and finished off with a half round rat tail file. this was a bit laborious but then I remembered I'd got a Dremel for crimbo and finished the rest with that. After de-burring I ran a length of 6mm threaded bar through the tubes to clear any coils of copper trapped inside. They're having a quick soak in citric acid.
I decided that for this steam plant I would upgrade to a steam driven Weir type feed pump so I've ordered the castings and plans from Blackgates and this will keep me occupied until the main boiler tubes arrive.
Jerry.
-
You should have seen the tube before I recoiled it! Like the plate method for straightening.
Ben
-
I'll deal with you later Ben.
Jerry.
-
Lol :o
-
The 3" feed pump kit arrived yesterday together with the 4 1/2" boiler tube and the tube for the funnel, so I'm only waiting on the burner tube and the cast phosphor bronze for the bushes. The boiler tube as supplied was rough cut with a saw and approximately 1/2" over size. Those with a nervous disposition, look away now. What follows is almost certainly inadvisable but I did recognize the fact and wore my crash helmet and worked at arms length. I shipped the 4 jaw chuck and mounted the tube over the jaws then used the dial gauge to centre the chuck end of the pipe. I used my little folding rule as a feeler gauge between the tube and the lathe bed to get the tube roughly straight then dial gauged the tail end of the tube. Then I nipped up the chuck and did a final check. Max run out 2mm with 1/16" clearance from the bed and 3 1/2" overhang. I switched the motor to slow speed and set the drive belt to slowest speed. I ran the lathe and all seemed ok with just a gentle wobble on the table, (it's not very rigid at the best of times). Then, with my sharpest tool in the tool holder, I started taking 2 thou cuts working from inside to out. No problem at all, kept my patience and didn't try to rush it and after 1 1/2 hours the end was squared and finally smoothed off and de-burred with a file. I reversed the tube on the chuck and dialled it in again. Turning the chuck by hand and using the pointy bit of the tool I scribed a line to mark the 5" length. I then ran the lathe and cut a shallow groove to guide the hacksaw when I finally cut the tube to length. I transferred the tube to the vice with the jaws at max opening and clamped the tube with a clamp using the jaws as a sort of V block. Then began cutting in the groove with a hacksaw, long, slow strokes, with minimal pressure, using the tip of my thumb as a fence to protect the tube should the blade jump the groove. I rotated the tube in the vice often and after about 30 mins the end came off quite neatly. Back in the lathe again to dress up the cut end. Please don't shout at me, I know I took the lathe to its limits but it did the job and I'm safe and sound. There was a little puckering but thankfully not on the work piece.
Now to the feed pump kit. It comes with 6 castings in, I guess, bronze, with comprehensive drawings, O-rings and valve springs. I'm going to need a couple of number drills and a few reamers. I've probably got enough s/s round to get it done. The drawings are third angle projection, which if memory serves me well I was taught as "American Projection". At the time (Grammar School), it fitted in my head easier than first angle. A bit of Googleing to brush up I think.
The picture shows the castings and, reading from left to right, no 1 is obviously the cylinder, no 2 the valve chest, no 3 the water cylinder, no 4, I think is the water cylinder top cover and no 5, I think, is the cylinder bottom cover, and finally no 6 is for odds and sods.
I'm not sure in my head how to mount rough castings in lathe or mill and the order of making good faces etc, I would appreciate some tips which would add to the thread for others watching.
Jerry.
-
Wrapping (not the talky thing) an overlong straight edged strip of paper around the tube will give a straight edge to cut to.
Regards Ian.
-
Nice one Ian. Thanks,
Jerry.
-
I ordered some number drills, reamers, a slot drill, a cutter and a D bit which should come tomorrow. Today I made a start on the cylinder casting. I checked that the milling attachment was mounted square in the slide then, using the fly cutter, I cleaned off the valve chest side. Putting this side down on the fixed jaw face of the milling vice and, using a square to set the cylinder axis at a right angle to the milling table, I cleaned off the top of the cylinder. I transferred the piece to the vice and removed the excess length with a hacksaw, intending to use this piece to make the top cover out of. I replaced the piece in the milling vice valve side down and the top face against the table, then milled the bottom face until clean, then took it down to length of 0.900". When I measured the width of the casting, to get an idea how much I would need to remove each side to get it to size I found that the casting was less than the finished width in the rough! I cleaned both sides off and the width ended up 45 thou under size. All faces were however perfectly square and the width is not a problem as there is still enough metal outside the stud holes and the nuts won't hang over the edge. Phew! The 5 holes in the cylinder for the valve chest studs are copied from the valve plate, so the plate has to be right. I put the piece I cut off the end of the cylinder in the milling vice backed up by parallels and attempted to mill it flat. Failure as not much to get hold of and it distorted and was ruined. I have some thin aluminium plate so I cut a piece on my scroll saw over sized a bit. At the same time I cut a piece for the valve plate. I marked out for all the holes, (13). As shown in the picture below, using double sided sticky tape, I attached it to a block of oak which is parallel, and put it in the milling vice. Looking at the marking out I decided it wasn't going to be good enough. I put the Jacobs chuck on the spindle with a 1/16" centre drill loaded and used this, together with the graduated wheels on the mill and the slide,to find the centre of the plate I zeroed the wheel markers and then used the graduations to navigate the drill around the plate and marked out the 5 securing stud holes with the centre drill. Finally I replaced the centre drill with a No. 50 drill and drilled the final holes. I will use this method to do as many holes as possible as transferring holes from one piece to another doesn't look the "right" way to me when I can put a hole exactly in the right place like this.
I noticed when looking at the plans that the 4 holes in item 6 ( the top cylinder cover) are not drawn the same way as they are in item 1, (the cylinder). If the datum mark in item 6 is the centre of the cylinder, what is the significance of the 45 deg angle and 0.325" radius if the holes form a square of side 0.5"???
Also missing on the drawings for item 2, (the valve chest), is the depth of the recess for the valve rod O-ring.
Any way all stopped now awaiting kit.
Jerry.
-
Jerry...it happens especially with pre CAD drawings..........having said this, it can be perplexing >>:-(....but it does happen & is usually the result of the Drawing not being checked by a second person
You may find in the title block the notation NTS [not to scale]
Having said all of this it can go from the sublime to the ridiculous....that same Mudgun hydraulic cylinder Drawing I mentioned in the 'political correctness' thread shows port connections in the endcap with nominated radians in........ degrees, minutes & seconds %%
Some very diligent junior drafts person in Luxemburg had picked a scanned copy of a hand drawn drawing & in CAD nominated such ridiculous positioning's.........unfortunately this was checked & signed off by a senior engineer from Paul Wurth O0.....
Another issue is metrication of imperial Drawings.......eg., we see the original dimension as 7/8" or a whole number & by convention only toleranced to the general tolerancing table on the Drawing.......however when this whole number is metricated it becomes 22.225 mm
Some genius may take this further & nominate the new dimension as 22.20 +0.02/-0.00........ <*< ....
If you have a dilemma with an o-ring cavity....just yell out.......or refer to your BS Standards .........Derek
-
Thanks Derek, I think all the O-rings are the same thickness, just different sizes so one recess depth fits all?
The rest of my order arrived first thing so continued with the cylinder. I marked the centre of the bore then loaded the casting in the 4 jaw chuck, found the centre by eye and magnifying glass then used progressively larger drills until I was 2 drills below 1/2". I thought that as the drills got bigger I'd need to slow the piece down but actually the opposite seemed to be the case. Too slow and the drill juddered and crabbed stalling the motor. Still, on the big drill, things were getting a bit violent hence stopping 2 short. I put the piece in the vice and reamed to size. This was not without it's problems. After each pass I moved the blades up a turn on the threads. At first this was OK but as I progressed the reamer started to judder causing ripples in the bore. I reduced the adjustments to 1/4 turn added a dash of cutting fluid and gently removed the marks. The bore is 10 thou oversize as a result. Hey ho. I put a slit in a piece wooden dowel, put a short length of emery tape in the slot and lapped the bore. It is the last bit of a roll of tape I bought 30 years ago in my motor bike building life. I need some more.
Loaded the piece in the milling attachment valve side to the chuck, found the centre of the face and using my northing and easting method, drilled all the stud holes and tapped them 10BA, then drilled the No55 ports before repositioning the piece and drilling and tapping the exhaust gallery and union ports 5/32"x 40 tpi. Then repositioned finally and drilled the inlet and exhaust galleries top and bottom before replacing the drill with a 1/16" slot cutter and opening the ports into the bore. I gave all faces a good lapping on a lapping plate made from a pane of greenhouse glass with strips of waterproof self adhesive abrasive from 800 to 2500 lines. All that remains now on the valve plate is to cut the channels for delivering steam to the shuttle ends on the reverse face.
That was a hard days work with plenty of opportunities for foolish mistakes and impatience. I think my plan to base all measurements on the centre axis of the bore is a good one. where the drawings indicate positions by radius or PCD (Pitch Circle Diameter) (I looked it up), it's a simple r x sine 45deg to get N & E. I believe that using the graduations on the wheels will always be better than I can do it. Digital readouts are starting to look desirous. Will continue with valve chest and covers tomorrow. Thanks for watching,
Jerry.
-
Jerry you can still re chuck the cylinder and finish with a round nose finely honed O0 boring bar to prevent possible tapering of the bore
Cheers
John
-
With drilling, I was always taught "reduce the speed, increase the feed" with the diameter of drill increasing. At 1/2" I would imagine you've reached beyond the capabilities of the taig, so bring on the boring bar.
That said, the 1/4" boring bars are good for the lightest of cuts only as they flex and chatter like mad. I expect you will need to make a tool post with a 3/8" hole and clamping slit to give you more rigidity. But that's a project for another day. It was something that appealed to me about the taig, that because of t slot fitting and small size,you could have a shelf full of toolposts all set to the correct height, ready to go. Abit like router bits.
Anyway, lovin your work, I shuttup now.
Ben.
-
Hi Jerry you don't need numerous toolposts the one in the attached picture does me fine and as mentioned previous sharp tools are essential at least on the taig lathe to help eliminate chatter and with your skills would take very little time and be the best mod for any lathe as it is easy height adjustable and can hold larger size bits ,keep up the good work as I am still battling with the regulator easier to buy one lol also waiting for your boiler build update
Cheers
John
-
Also have plans and video of the toolpost if you are interested
John
-
Thanks John, I only have two tool posts one front and one back. I like the look of yours especially the height adjustment. Would love the plans and video. If your willing, put them on here, if not PM me.
Jerry.
-
Thanks Jerry I made mine on the taig and you can also mill the tool slot in situ O0 video here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJHDSY7tZ8c
Cheers
John
-
That certainly is a nice piece of kit.
I think the main cause of chatter for me was thinking the taig was a Colchester. I got there in the end but always preferred the 3/8" boring bar.
John, do you have a quick method of centring the tools once mounted on the post? Obviously the centre in the tail stock and I know about the steel rule on the workpiece. 'Twas always a bain to me, changing the tool.
Jem, getting new shed this week, so whilst sorting, have come across some odds and sods for your pile.
Looking forward to next update.
Ben
-
The 3" feed pump kit arrived yesterday together with the 4 1/2" boiler tube and the tube for the funnel, so I'm only waiting on the burner tube and the cast phosphor bronze for the bushes. The boiler tube as supplied was rough cut with a saw and approximately 1/2" over size. Those with a nervous disposition, look away now. What follows is almost certainly inadvisable but I did recognize the fact and wore my crash helmet and worked at arms length. I shipped the 4 jaw chuck and mounted the tube over the jaws then used the dial gauge to centre the chuck end of the pipe. I used my little folding rule as a feeler gauge between the tube and the lathe bed to get the tube roughly straight then dial gauged the tail end of the tube. Then I nipped up the chuck and did a final check. Max run out 2mm with 1/16" clearance from the bed and 3 1/2" overhang. I switched the motor to slow speed and set the drive belt to slowest speed. I ran the lathe and all seemed ok with just a gentle wobble on the table, (it's not very rigid at the best of times). Then, with my sharpest tool in the tool holder, I started taking 2 thou cuts working from inside to out. No problem at all, kept my patience and didn't try to rush it and after 1 1/2 hours the end was squared and finally smoothed off and de-burred with a file. I reversed the tube on the chuck and dialled it in again. Turning the chuck by hand and using the pointy bit of the tool I scribed a line to mark the 5" length. I then ran the lathe and cut a shallow groove to guide the hacksaw when I finally cut the tube to length. I transferred the tube to the vice with the jaws at max opening and clamped the tube with a clamp using the jaws as a sort of V block. Then began cutting in the groove with a hacksaw, long, slow strokes, with minimal pressure, using the tip of my thumb as a fence to protect the tube should the blade jump the groove. I rotated the tube in the vice often and after about 30 mins the end came off quite neatly. Back in the lathe again to dress up the cut end. Please don't shout at me, I know I took the lathe to its limits but it did the job and I'm safe and sound. There was a little puckering but thankfully not on the work piece.
Now to the feed pump kit. It comes with 6 castings in, I guess, bronze, with comprehensive drawings, O-rings and valve springs. I'm going to need a couple of number drills and a few reamers. I've probably got enough s/s round to get it done. The drawings are third angle projection, which if memory serves me well I was taught as "American Projection". At the time (Grammar School), it fitted in my head easier than first angle. A bit of Googleing to brush up I think.
The picture shows the castings and, reading from left to right, no 1 is obviously the cylinder, no 2 the valve chest, no 3 the water cylinder, no 4, I think is the water cylinder top cover and no 5, I think, is the cylinder bottom cover, and finally no 6 is for odds and sods.
I'm not sure in my head how to mount rough castings in lathe or mill and the order of making good faces etc, I would appreciate some tips which would add to the thread for others watching.
Jerry.
Jerry,
Just been reading your post on cutting your boiler tube,.
You must have some IRISH blood in your genes as you are one LUCKY LUCKY Dude.
Machining copper is one of the most fraught procedures on the lathe, one little dig of the tool and you could have had a major incident, the tube being unsupported at the end could have jumped out of the chuck, distorted the tube and possibly wrenched the lathe head on such a small lathe.
If you have no steady you could have plugged the tube end with a piece of timber, trued the tube up with a D.T.I. and then brought the tail stock revolving center into the timber to support the end of the tube before machining.
In fact there was no need for you to machine the tube as once cut around the mark you could have cleaned the end up with a file as there is no need in the boiler design for the end to be machined as there is going to be a smoke box at one end and a fire box at the other which go over the tube and pinned on.
I know that its academic now as you have managed to get away with no problem but I write this in the hope that somebody else reading your build who may try your method and not be so lucky.
As it happens I am at present building a boiler from the same drawing and have used the method suggested by Ian ( Circlip ) that is wrapping a straight edge piece of paper around the boiler marking with a pencil and cutting with a fine toothed hack saw blade and then cleaning up the edge with a file.
I would post some pics of this build but unfortunately since the forum change I can't post pics, I will however mail them to you and perhaps you could post them on the forum.
Please don't take this as criticism, rather as a suggestion that somebody may try the old paper wrapper method and cut with a hacksaw.
George.
-
Hi George, if you remember, you taught me the paper trick when I made my de-oiler for Wear's plant. I didn't have a piece of paper big enough to go around this one. I didn't want to mention it in case Circlip thought I was being a smartarse. I fully acknowledge that it was a risky procedure, but alls well that ends well.
I'll be putting some more on the pump cylinder machining maybe tomorrow so will gladly post your pics at the same time. Have you got a thread for your boiler build or shall I just include it on mine?
No offence taken on criticism if it's to keep me and others safe, I appreciate it. It's a canny wee lathe all the same.
John, thanks for the drawing, I'll certainly have a go at the tool holder.
Jerry.
-
Hi Ben I usually do a small face cut and line the tool with the knob in center of the work or the center in the tailstock chuck
Cheers
John
-
Hi George, if you remember, you taught me the paper trick when I made my de-oiler for Wear's plant. I didn't have a piece of paper big enough to go around this one. I didn't want to mention it in case Circlip thought I was being a smartarse. I fully acknowledge that it was a risky procedure, but alls well that ends well.
I'll be putting some more on the pump cylinder machining maybe tomorrow so will gladly post your pics at the same time. Have you got a thread for your boiler build or shall I just include it on mine?
No offence taken on criticism if it's to keep me and others safe, I appreciate it. It's a canny wee lathe all the same.
John, thanks for the drawing, I'll certainly have a go at the tool holder.
Jerry.
Jerry,
As it's only a one off to point out the dangers of machining copper just post the pics on your thread,.
Your doing a good job, keep it up.
George.
-
Thanks john. Sorry Jem thread hijack over.
Ben
-
Ben, and anybody else watching, if it's pertinent to the thread and contains info helpful to me and any body else put it on here and don't worry about hijacking thread. There are all kinds of skills on here from total amateurs to professional engineers. Also people that think they can never do this type of thing. My purpose is to show how I work it out and how I learn. One of my biggest beefs about school was that they taught us a whole load of stuff but never actually taught us how to learn.
Jerry.
-
George (ooyah2) asked me to put pics of his project, similar to mine) because he can't.
Jerry.
-
more.
-
more more
-
and finally
proper job!
-
Now my bit. I finished the cylinder, valve plate and covers, then made the bottom cover/cylinder support and lastly the O-ring retainer. I assembled the cylinder assembly, then used the sanding station to reduce the size of the covers to almost perfect and finished them all on the dressing plate. Seeing how close everything was got me thinking about packing. The drawing (there are no instructions) mentions 1/64" thick Hallite or Dixel. I don't know what this is and a quick search on tinterweb wasn't very helpful. Except for the worry of excess foofoo getting where it shouldn't I would prefer to use my (very expensive) BMW Dri-bond but it's getting a bit thicker now than when I built the TVR1ABB engine. So now I'm thinking of the brown paper that he supplies with his kits. But has anyone got any views on using simple greaseproof paper?
Anyway here's some pics, the fastenings are temporary only to prove all the holes line up.
Jerry.
-
Lovely work all round. Inspiring.
-
Jerry...Paper Gaskets?
An acquaintance [92 years young ex steam engineer] from a model steam group....has suggested to stay away from silicone coated 'Glad Bake' type baking paper as whilst it may be good for say 220 degrees C...it is too thin @ 0.001" thick and because of the silicone coating, oils will not penetrate & soften the cellulose fibres ...instead he suggests good quality brown paper ...approx. 0.004" thick and with a liberal brushing of caster oil [on both sides]
The beauty here is the course texture of the brown paper will adsorb the caster oil and swell the thickness of the material...& thus filling the voids between the mating surfaces
This natural oil has some interesting properties....as noted by the WIKI people.........just don't drink it... {-)....Derek
"Castor oil is a colorless to very pale yellow liquid with a distinct taste and odor once first ingested. Its boiling point is 313 °C"
-
I use this one with no problems so far LOCTITE R T V 5920 copper high performance silicone also George what thickness are your endplates on your boiler ? ps nice work
John
-
Hi Derek, sorry for the delay in replying but the forum's been down until just now. I like the sound of the castor oil and brown paper. I'll get the blow lamp on a bit. I adore the smell of hot castor oil (Castrol R). FYI BMW Drei Bond is used on the K100's oil/water pump assembly. Keeps hot water away from hot, high pressure oil. I used it on the TVR and it been great. It glues it together and when it's gone off I can remove the screws from the valve chest covers and it still runs! Only trouble is it's £17 for a little tube. It's too thick to use now on this pump.
John is your Loctite ok to get on very thinly as I don't want it to creep into the ports and galleries as they are all in very close proximity.
I've nearly finished the pump section Will finish it and post tomorrow.
Jerry.
-
I use this one with no problems so far LOCTITE R T V 5920 copper high performance silicone also George what thickness are your endplates on your boiler ? ps nice work
John
John,
Boiler end plates are 10 s.w.g. ( 1/8" thk ) all the boilers made in the last 10 years are 10 s.w.g. as I had a 4 ft x 4 ft sheet.
This is a boiler that I am making for a friend who supplied me with the tube 4.25" dia x .109" thk ( 12 s.w.g.)
I have never made a boiler with such a thk shell and was a bit taken aback by the amount of heat required to melt the S/Solder.
I had to take the jet out of my Bullfinch burner which was a No 30 ( Microns ) and drill it out to .030 and increase the air intake before I could get enough heat to get the solder running, I tell you it was like Dante's inferno in the shop.
So Jerry and anybody else contemplating making a boiler with such a thk shell don't try it with plumbers blow lamps as it just will not work, you will not get enough heat to melt the solder.
The boiler is in the pickle bath at present so if you wish I can ask Jerry to post some pics.
Thanks for the P.S.
If I can post a warning on paper gaskets, I use nothing else other than brown paper from large brown envelopes coated each side with steam oil.
Do not use brown packing paper that has stripes thro' it as when under steam pressure and heat they leach out a sticky black tar type substance and nearly impossible to clean, be warned.
George
-
Nice work Jerry and George.
Water colour paper is also good for gaskets as it has a higher rag content.
Must build one of these steam engine thingys again soon.
At least theres no scorthched flowers this time eh
OK I will go quietly before <*< [size=78%] [/size]
-
Hi Jerry I have found that a very thin layer of loktite apply with small brush is ok and have had no problems with blockages yet , it is amazing stuff :-))
Cheers
John
-
Nice work Jerry and George.
Water colour paper is also good for gaskets as it has a higher rag content.
Must build one of these steam engine thingys again soon.
At least theres no scorthched flowers this time eh
OK I will go quietly before <*<
Frazer,
Is your spil chek wurking.
Geo
-
Yesterday and today spent on pump section. Cleaned up the casting in the three jaw, faced off the ends of the inlet and outlet stubs to length, then after centre drilling, drilled a 1/8" hole in to the middle of the pump. Drilled a hole for 1/4" x 40 tpi thread then finished off to depth with a 3/16" D-bit giving a nice flat bottom to the valve chamber. Tapped the 1/4" x 40 tpi thread for union. Turned the piece round in the chuck and repeated process. Finally I ran a 1/8" reamer through both pipes giving a sharp edge for the valve seats.
Next I turned my attention to the pump cylinder. The drawing shows the total height of the pump body from the base but gives no measure to say where the pipes exit. Of course it doesn't actually matter as far as function is concerned but I wanted it to look like in the drawing, so faced off the bottom so the pipes are a little above the base ensuring first there was enough metal on the top to machine to height. This wasn't clever! I should have done the top first! As it was I didn't have enough for the three jaw to get hold of when it came to facing off the top so had to load it in the four jaw. Next I drilled the top ram hole and reamed to 1/4". Returned the piece to the three jaw and drilled out the body to size. Shipped the milling attachment with the piece in it and drilled and tapped the top and bottom cover plate securing stud holes. These are of similar pattern and size.
Next came the top and bottom covers. I thought I could get both out of the one casting and save time by making them more or less together at least until both had been turned down to their major sizes. I then parted off the bottom cover, then drilled the 1/4" hole through the top cover before boring out for the o-ring recess. I parted off the piece only to find that there was not as much metal as appearance suggested and I blew through the 0-ring securing lip. Curses!! So, I had to make the top cover again but out of the cast bar supplied. I cut a piece off and milled it to thickness, then drilled and bored the o-ring retainer, drilled the securing stud holes and finally drilled the 6BA clearance holes for the Tie Bar threads. All that remained was to mill the outline roughly to shape before final shaping on the sanding station. Burny finger time, but it does a lovely job. The same procedure for the bottom cover then both parts dressed up on the plate.
Made and threaded the tie bars from 3/16" s/steel stock. Married the steam bit to the water bit and called it a day.
Jerry.
-
I've been beavering away at the internals. It's been pretty straight forward really, no marking out just letting the lathe do the sums. Only thing of possible interest was the sequence of making the piston and the ram. I made the ram first from 1/4" s/steel stock. I machine the piston thread and shoulder and parted of to length. Next I made the piston 20th oversize but didn't cut the o-ring groove. I threaded the piston onto the ram and got a good fit on the shoulder. I put the ram in the 3 jaw and turned the piston down to size, checking for fit in the cylinder bore until it went in the bore. Finally, I cut the ring groove. I did it this way to avoid any run-out caused when cutting the threads.
I slackened the tie bar nuts and installed the ram and piston assembly in the pump and cylinder, then little by little, re-tightened the nuts while moving the piston up and down so that everything lined up with the bore and pump axis. There is no binding.
I've only got the valves and joints left to do.
Jerry.
-
Cot blimey you don't half move. Looks great Jem. Really enjoying following the thread. Did you do the pump as a practice for the engine?
Ben
-
No Ben, it's just to fill in while I wait for the balance of materials arrive. Also I don't want the new plant to be just a bigger version of Wear's.
Jerry.
-
Except for the studding to secure the valve chest cover plate the pump is finished. It took me four tries at making a pump valve cos I couldn't hold on to it in the milling vice. I eventually found the small Jacobs chuck would hold the tiny valves and I could put the chuck in the vice squarely. The orientation of the chuck jaws also helped to index (by eye) for the three cuts.
I'm still waiting on stock for the boiler so used some of the time to go digital, measuring feed distance as suggested by Ian (thanks matey) it works a treat. Today I made a couple of boiler bushes out of phosphor bronze cast round. These are for the safety valve and filler plug. Then I made a start on nuts for the boiler stays. Will finish of tomorrow.
Jerry.
-
Forgot this pic.
Jerry.
-
I got an old oak chimney lintel and cut 9" off one end and rough cut it on the Kity. It's with the wood turner guy. While waiting I made up three boiler stays and their nuts from 3/16 phosphor bronze round with 2BA threads. Will cut the end plate blanks tomorrow. Still waiting for the fire tube and cast for the bushes. I've made the two 5/8" bushes out of a 3" piece that was in stock. Still, no rush.
Jerry.
-
And the stays.
-
That's a fair chunk of oak there Jerry. Is the plan to transform some of it into parts of a boat?
Nice metal work. I hope all your materials arrive soon - some of us are getting impatient! {-)
Greg
-
Thanks Greg. Fortunately, patience is something I've acquired in later life. I wish it had come a lot sooner. As a seaman I have no real conception of holidays as we worked on all days so I'm constantly getting caught out by them. I phoned Blackgates this morning to chase them up only to realise it's Good Friday. To be fair the fact that we've been scoffing hot cross buns should have been a clue. They're not open til Tuesday. I'm collecting the former this pm and this morning I rough cut the end plates with a hand held jigsaw fitted with a steel cutting blade with no problem. I did try first an aluminium cutting blade but it chucked a lot and wasn't very good. I'll grind them to a circle on the sanding station. I know a lot of engineers look down on wood working tools but the circular sanding disk fitted with 120 grit sand paper seems to cut anything.
As to the use of the oak for a boat, it's nearly turned to stone. It took me an hour to cut the end off with a decent crosscut hand saw. It's nine inches thick and until I cut it down a bit was too big for Kity. However you've sown a seed. I've also got a 3' x7"x2" piece of beautiful mahogany left over from Wear so it looks like I'm sorted. All the best,
Jerry.
-
Got the former back. Turned on a hundred year old South Bend lathe brought over during WW2 on the lend lease programme. Used metal cutting tool. I've set the first end plate up central in these clamps at 120° just to get it started. Will anneal the plate and set it up again to do the missed parts and carry on the same until it's finished.
-
The clamps have smooth cast iron jaws with a large area of contact they don't mark timber so they won't mark the copper. My vice is too small and the bench is just a canteen table which just serves to keep things off the ground. It won't take a good hammering. I made a start using quite a small hammer which was perfectly adequate for the job. After belting seven bells out of the copper I could feel it hardening so I repositioned the clamps by 60° and carried on. In all it took 4 annealings before it was finished. Repeated the process on the other plate using the other end of the former. Put one on the lathe and turned it down to a good fit in the tube, skimmed the face which gave me a centre for marking out. There was no way I could part it off with a parting tool as it's too big to get at so I used a disk in the dremel. Cut it with no problems. Weill finish the other tomorrow. The pics are in order of work.
Jerry.
-
Hi Jerry I am amazed you are accomplishing this on the taig lathe ,do you have a speed control as I can imagine in the standard setup even on the lowest speed the boiler end would resemble a ufo also what thickness are the end plates?(tip a little kerosine helps cutting copper O0
Cheers
John
-
Hi John, the lathe has a two speed motor which I've called slow and fast. In general cutting the copper has been easy but of necessity very slow. I found sometimes it cut like butter and made large fluffy Brillo pads and then on the same pass would become noisy and difficult. I tried a little
Rocol which made me feel better. I like the idea of kerosene but it's £10 a gallon and difficult to get here. I've got a load of brushwood to burn soon and I'll need keep for that. I did hear somewhere that milk is also a good cutting fluid but is it full cream, semi or skimmed? I wasn't falling for that one, imagine the smell in a hot shed a few days later.
I think my gas torch on Butane is going to be up to the job for the soldering. It takes just under 3 minutes to get an end plate up to cherry red. It certainly puts colour back in my cheeks! I have to wear thick welders gloves or I'd never be able to hold the torch.
End plates are 3mm thick.
Jerry.
-
You are right about the smelly milk also 3mm is quite thick as my first boiler was 2mm and that took some bashing but I did not silver solder mine it was done by an old hand with oxy gear so this one will be my first to solder so watching very close,I have the fire bricks ready and about to form the ends so not far behind.
Cheers
John
-
I got collared for garden duties but managed to slope off after lunch. I finished the last end plate and marked them both up for drilling. I'm not going to drill them until I have the fire tube in my hand as knowing my luck after waiting two months I'll get told that size is now unavailable and will 30mm do. I might have to reposition some of the return tubes. Next I set up the shell on V blocks on the marking plate and marked top, bottom left and right to help align everything prior to soldering. Also marked out positions of clack valve, steam manifold/dome,safety valve, filler, pressure gauge and sight glass fittings.
Jerry.
-
Forgot the pics.
Jerry.
-
Yesterday and today spent on pump section. Cleaned up the casting in the three jaw, faced off the ends of the inlet and outlet stubs to length, then after centre drilling, drilled a 1/8" hole in to the middle of the pump. Drilled a hole for 1/4" x 40 tpi thread then finished off to depth with a 3/16" D-bit giving a nice flat bottom to the valve chamber. Tapped the 1/4" x 40 tpi thread for union. Turned the piece round in the chuck and repeated process. Finally I ran a 1/8" reamer through both pipes giving a sharp edge for the valve seats.
Next I turned my attention to the pump cylinder. The drawing shows the total height of the pump body from the base but gives no measure to say where the pipes exit. Of course it doesn't actually matter as far as function is concerned but I wanted it to look like in the drawing, so faced off the bottom so the pipes are a little above the base ensuring first there was enough metal on the top to machine to height. This wasn't clever! I should have done the top first! As it was I didn't have enough for the three jaw to get hold of when it came to facing off the top so had to load it in the four jaw. Next I drilled the top ram hole and reamed to 1/4". Returned the piece to the three jaw and drilled out the body to size. Shipped the milling attachment with the piece in it and drilled and tapped the top and bottom cover plate securing stud holes. These are of similar pattern and size.
Next came the top and bottom covers. I thought I could get both out of the one casting and save time by making them more or less together at least until both had been turned down to their major sizes. I then parted off the bottom cover, then drilled the 1/4" hole through the top cover before boring out for the o-ring recess. I parted off the piece only to find that there was not as much metal as appearance suggested and I blew through the 0-ring securing lip. Curses!! So, I had to make the top cover again but out of the cast bar supplied. I cut a piece off and milled it to thickness, then drilled and bored the o-ring retainer, drilled the securing stud holes and finally drilled the 6BA clearance holes for the Tie Bar threads. All that remained was to mill the outline roughly to shape before final shaping on the sanding station. Burny finger time, but it does a lovely job. The same procedure for the bottom cover then both parts dressed up on the plate.
Made and threaded the tie bars from 3/16" s/steel stock. Married the steam bit to the water bit and called it a day.
Jerry.
Jerry,
Just been having another look at your 3" Weir type pump and must congraulste you on your workmanship, well done.
My question is , why have you used steel on the construction of the steam transfer plate and the steam chest cover and the other parts when Southworth supply a strip of Gunmetal to make these parts, any reason for this.
I made one some time ago and made all the parts with the Gunmetal supplied.
Here is a pic of that pump ( hopefully it will post )
George.
-
Thanks George. I didn't use steel I used duralumin sheet. I did try to use the stuff supplied but when I came to mill the other side, without me noticing, the part warped in the jaws and was spoiled. I had some dural(HP30) left over from my bike building days. I live quite close to the factory in Dolgarrog where the works manager was very kind and let me have a load of stuff. My TVR uses aluminium valves so I've tried the same.
Today I drilled the end plates and boiler shell. I used both imperial and metric step drills and the drill press. I supported the end plates with the cut off formers drilling through the plates into the formers which kept the drills clear of the vice. The remaining cylinder of oak I put inside the shell to support it while drilling for the bushes. Drilling was a dream, if you've never used step drills give them a try, they do exactly what they are meant to. Perfect round parallel holes that the return tubes are a good sliding fit in and the same for the bushes. Well pleased.
That's as far as I can go. The PB for the rest of the bushes is on it's way but still no chance for the remaining fire tube or 10BA brass studding. If anyone has 5 1/2" of 1 1/4" I/D 16SWG copper pipe and 10BA brass or steel studding I could buy I would be eternally grateful.
Jerry.
-
Thanks George. I didn't use steel I used duralumin sheet. I did try to use the stuff supplied but when I came to mill the other side, without me noticing, the part warped in the jaws and was spoiled. I had some dural(HP30) left over from my bike building days. I live quite close to the factory in Dolgarrog where the works manager was very kind and let me have a load of stuff. My TVR uses aluminium valves so I've tried the same.
Today I drilled the end plates and boiler shell. I used both imperial and metric step drills and the drill press. I supported the end plates with the cut off formers drilling through the plates into the formers which kept the drills clear of the vice. The remaining cylinder of oak I put inside the shell to support it while drilling for the bushes. Drilling was a dream, if you've never used step drills give them a try, they do exactly what they are meant to. Perfect round parallel holes that the return tubes are a good sliding fit in and the same for the bushes. Well pleased.
That's as far as I can go. The PB for the rest of the bushes is on it's way but still no chance for the remaining fire tube or 10BA brass studding. If anyone has 5 1/2" of 1 1/4" I/D 16SWG copper pipe and 10BA brass or steel studding I could buy I would be eternally grateful.
Jerry.
Jerry,
Blackgates engineering list 1.25" o/d copper tube x 16 swg, why not use that ?
E.K.P. Supplies stock 10 b.a. brass studding in 12" lengths. tel/fax 01598 710892.
George.
-
Hi Jerry,
Whilst not the cheapest source on the block... 1.375" OD x 16swg is available from stock here: -
http://www.ajreeves.com/copper-tube--1-38-x-16-swg-8656-p.asp (http://www.ajreeves.com/copper-tube--1-38-x-16-swg-8656-p.asp)
George has given you a feasible alternative with the 1.25" OD x 16swg and a very good source for the 10BA studding. :-))
Hope this helps.
Best regards.
AlexC. :D
-
Thankyou Alex C and George. I phoned Blackgates first thing and the tube is arriving shortly. I ordered the studding from E K P and a safety valve from Maccsteam. I spent the rest of the day on the bushes and extensions for pressure gauge and lower sight glass fitting. I've just got the blanking plugs and steam dome/manifold to do then I can start on the fire and smoke boxes.
Jerry.
-
Got a bit of a rash on my hands and cutting my fingers to ribbons so off to screwfix store for latex gloves and barrier cream. Get a hundred pairs of gloves for £8, forget all about the barrier cream and on my way out spot a Chinese set of number, letter and imperial drills for £28, so grabbed em and went back to the till. "Do you mind telling me what they are cos nobody here knows?", so I tell her best as I can and shoot off home totally forgetting to call in at Tesco and get the shopping.
Today I made a manifold come screw in steam dome. I'd just finished when in comes the missus with an Anzac biscuit, delicious the best she's ever made. A few minutes later she comes back with a little cooking measure that the spot welds have failed and th'andle fell off. "Can you fix this cos I use it a lot?". " No chance", says I. A little later I think " what about rivets?", I've got 100 1/16" copper rivets cos I needed six to hold the boiler together when I solder it. So gets my one and only 1/16" bit, load it in the dremel and try to drill through the handle. Hard as nails, melts drill bit. Then remember chinese set, give it a go and Perfick, cuts like butter. Riveted one hole then drilled tother and job done. She wouldn't give me another biscuit though.
Jerry.
-
The fire tube arrived on Saturday but forgot to look in the parcel box and didn't find it until the evening. Sunday morning I took S. L. Wear to the lake for the first steam of the year. All went well and good weather for it too. PM went for a bike ride in training for the Etape Eryri in June so only managed to mark out for the fire tube holes in the end plates. Ring drilled them today. I broke two of my new drills before using parafin as a cutting lubricant and then all went well. I used a Dremel parallel burr tool in the drill press on highest speed and tidied up the edge before using a grit drum to take the hole out to size, fitting the pipe and twisting it in the hole to mark the high spots on the edge and grinding the marks off until I got a good sliding fit. Next I made up rings of silver solder using a spare return tube as a mandrel and the flaring tool and mole grips to hold the coils tight and then warmed up the solder to anneal it and set the coils. I cut the rings off with side cutters. I repeated the process with the hex stock I made the stay nuts out of and ditto with the stays themselves. Finally made rings for the bushes. The solder coils down neatly into the drum for the end plates. I'm trying for a neat soldering job first go so made up some flux applicators out of dowel turned down in the the lathe cos I'm rubbish with a paintbrush so this way the flux and thus the solder will only go where I want it. I'll put a few short straight pieces of solder in pin vices in case I get any gaps. Easier to hold and aim the solder when wearing thick welding gloves. I'm waiting on a set of 5/16" 32tpi taps and die for the safety valve bush and then I can do the soldering job. I must admit I've lost a fair bit of sleep mulling over this job cos I've never done anything like it before. Wish me luck.
Jerry.
-
What are you using for pickle ? been trying to get some citric acid but seems very scarce here locally so far, best of luck just keep it clean clean clean and right heat and should be ok ,helps in low light so you can see the colour moroon and your getting close don,try to do too much in one go :-))
John
-
Hi John, you get citric acid from people that sell all the gear for home brewed beer. Mine is supplied by Young's Ubrew, Bilston, West Mids, WV14 8DL. I got it at local garden centre that has a brewing section. £1.19 per 100 grams. I put all my bits in the dishwasher and now they're in the pickle bath at the moment. I won't touch anything without clean gloves on.
Jerry.
-
Hi Jerry are you using this neat or watered down if so what % also works out at about $20 per litre our money
John
-
John, here in New Zealand I can buy Citric Acid in the supermarket in the cooking ingrediants section. It is in powder form and is very cheap. I dissolve it in warm water and have experimented with very strong mixtures and quite weak ones. It does not seem to make much difference except that very weak does not do as good a job so now I just put a couple of spoon fulls in a 1 litre container and almost fill it with the warm water. I use it more than once before eventually throwing it out. Main thing seems to be that the parts are still good and hot when dropped in the acid and you should wear goggles and gloves. Hope this helps. Cheers, Ian.
-
That said, I've just been to the store (Stermat) and they've run out. "Oh, we've changed our supplier and so we're running our stocks down". Yes, it's in powder form and I've no idea of the mixture but it seems to work whatever I do. It stops working when it turns green. I had the bits overnight in green stuff and it didn't clean, hence trip to store. As Ian says, a decent supermarket will also stock it for cooking purposes. I'll let you know.
Jerry.
-
I use citric acid in powder form for bread making, health shops or Asian shops - at a pinch you can use vitamin c tablets and crush them (citric acid powder = vitamin c powder). failing that fresh lemon juice would do the job too.
Grendel
-
If your losing sleep, your not training hard enough! :}
Plus, we all know it's going to be a super job, so get on with it!
Looking forward to the pics
All the best
Ben
-
Hi Guy's
Citric acid powder/granules is easily obtained from 'Amazon'
http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=citric+acid+powder&tag=mh0a9-21&index=aps&hvadid=2978661215&ref=pd_sl_4ilnx3ofwh_ee (http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=citric+acid+powder&tag=mh0a9-21&index=aps&hvadid=2978661215&ref=pd_sl_4ilnx3ofwh_ee)
It should be mixed with luke warm clean water until no more will dissolve... Saturated mix.
Copper joint areas should be mechanically cleaned to remove surface oxide layer before placing in the pickle.
Hope this helps.
Best regards.
AlexC. :-))
-
Jerry have you tried Cnfn/Bangor and Gaerwen Stermats as I would find it strange that all 3 have run out and there is also one in Colwyn Bay
Dave
-
Hi Stav, girl in Treborth says they are the only ones doing the brewing gear, I know Caernarfon haven't got it. So I ordered a kilo off tinterweb for £6 inc postage. One kilo of white powder through the post. That'll get the scuffers going.
Jerry.
-
Girl in Treborth is telling Porky pies LOL Gwen defo got brewing gear.........but you sorted anyway
Dave
-
Hi Jerry,
Message to follow
-
Hi Jerry,
On your post No 132 you sounded a bit apprehensive on the brazing up of your boiler so I thought that I would give some suggestions on setting it up for brazing.
I had to post the pics first as I have to send them from my Mac to a lap top and then post the pics from there and then do the write up on the Mac so here I am
In pic No 1 can I suggest that you counter sink the holes in the end plate as it lets the solder flow that little bit deeper
Pic No2 is of a vertical boiler that I made and have always found that it's better to have everything set up before brazing.
If you fix the ends in with copper rivets to hold them in place and then put the return tubes in and spread the ends , I use a piece of 1/4" dia brass rod rounded at the end, inserted into the 5/16" tubes and spread the ends that is sufficient to hold every thing in place.
Pic No 3. I wrap the boiler shell with ceramic wool and do one end at a time, placing the boiler in the pickle bath after each procedure.
My brazing box is like a large shoe box with one long side removed, I had to stand the box upright with one end acting like a hood to keep the heat in, you can just see the top of the box in the pic.
My first try with a boiler to the same design as yours with the end sticking up above the box edge was a failure as so much heat was lost to atmosphere but when I turned the box upright with the end like a hood it was much easier and the solder flowed.
Don't know what type of burner you have but mine is a 1" dia Bullfinch with a .030" dia hole in the jet working off of a 4.5 kg bottle of Butane.
Don't lose too much sleep, you are doing a good job, hope this is of help.
George.
-
Great post George, thankyou. Having a small hiatus at the moment. My mother fell over during a hospital visit and fractured her arm. She was going on a cruise to the Faeroe Islands on Saturday taking my missus as her helper and has had to cancel. I was going to drive them to Hull to join the vessel. It would have been quite a reversal me seeing her off on a ship she's done it for me countless times!
Back to the boiler. If I build it up with flux and solder rings then solder one end then pickle, what happens to the flux on the in unsoldered end. Do I have to do it again and if so how do I get the flux back into the joints prior to second soldering?
I've been reading through the bogstandard engine build PDF file and noticed a lot of wasted space in the cylinder block between the bores. Is it feasible to put a displacement oiler in this space and would it work? I seem to recollect a Bayliss engine with this arrangement. Would there be too much heat to allow condensation to take place? Any one tried this?
Jerry.
-
Great post George, thankyou. Having a small hiatus at the moment. My mother fell over during a hospital visit and fractured her arm. She was going on a cruise to the Faeroe Islands on Saturday taking my missus as her helper and has had to cancel. I was going to drive them to Hull to join the vessel. It would have been quite a reversal me seeing her off on a ship she's done it for me countless times!
Back to the boiler. If I build it up with flux and solder rings then solder one end then pickle, what happens to the flux on the in unsoldered end. Do I have to do it again and if so how do I get the flux back into the joints prior to second soldering?
I've been reading through the bogstandard engine build PDF file and noticed a lot of wasted space in the cylinder block between the bores. Is it feasible to put a displacement oiler in this space and would it work? I seem to recollect a Bayliss engine with this arrangement. Would there be too much heat to allow condensation to take place? Any one tried this?
Jerry.
Hi Jerry,
If you lag the boiler sufficiently and keep the heat as far as possible from the unbrazed end the flux will melt to an extent and protect the already prepared end but it will turn quite black and full of bubbles.
Turn it over when cool and braze the other end,when the boiler turns red all the flux will turn to a watery like fluid and if you have the rings in they will all melt into the joints.
You may be able to hit the take of and the safety valve boss at this time when the boiler still has all that heat in it.
I have also brazed one end, let it cool leave over night in pickle bath which cleans all the joints for brazing, insulate it all up again and braze the other end but then I don't use solder rings .I use the rods fed into the joints, it's my opinion that too much solder is used when rings are made, so feeding in the rods is my preference..
Regarding your query on the engine lubricator I can't comment as I have never tried this method which I have my doubts as to whether the lubricator will be cool enough to condense the steam in the lubricator barrel.
Hopefully I have been successful in sending a pic of the vertical boiler that I built showing how black it becomes when brazing.
George.
-
Hi Jerry.
Here is a pic of my finished Scotch boiler, the smoke box and fire box have still to be made.
This one was brazed, then turned over when cool and the other end brazed.
George
-
Good to see you've cracked the picture posting George - now we can all enjoy your great work to the full :-))
Good luck with the boiler Jerry - fortune favours the brave. Fire up the torch! (Of course, I speak as someone who thinks getting a nipple soldered onto a pipe is something of an achievement :embarrassed:)
Greg
-
I have asked this question before with no answer. Has any one else used Rothenburger- Rolot S2, this is brazing rod containing only 0.5% silver. Needs no flux for copper to copper, will braze copper to bronze (curtain types of bronze will become porous if to much heat is applied) with Tenacity or Easy Flow flux. I get mine free but it only cost £0.70 a stick & with a slightly higher melting temperature than Easy Flow it can be very useful.
-
Hi Hammer, I can't comment as I have no experience of this kit.
On with the boiler. I has an incident while cleaning up the bench prior to assembly. While running the vacuum cleaner nozzle over the bench I failed to pay attention to what the hose was doing behind me and knocked the boiler shell onto the floor. Result, a slightly deformed rear rim. It wasn't a bad one but it did show it's effects later on. I assembled it all out of the pickle bath, cleaning with wire wool and applying flux as I went. Applied 1mm thick solder rings as required and carefully fluxed over the solder. Wrapped the boiler in insulation matting from bottom to top, securing with copper wire. Put the wrapped boiler in the hearth with the matting tucked underneath and made a hood out of two sheets of insulation. On with the goggles, hat, thick coat and welders gloves, a deep breath and flashed up the torch (1", jet unknown and using butane) and off we go. Kept the nozzle moving and got up to temperature. The flux didn't behave as expected but turned to like dirty slush on the side of the road in winter, however finally it started to clear, everything came clean, a quick look without the torch showed a dull red glow, replaced the flame and then one after the other the small rings melted followed by the firetube ring then the shell ring and the last bit between the firetube bottom and the shell (good heatsink here methinks). Kept the torch moving until sure everthing taken then shut off. See video here, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYxXb7u45Fg&list=UUbagXHeyf-nZGj-QE8latEQ&feature=share (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYxXb7u45Fg&list=UUbagXHeyf-nZGj-QE8latEQ&feature=share)
Total time taken 13 minutes. It seemed like an hour and panic would have occurred if I hadn't actually kept my eye on the clock. Removed most of the insulation and let everything cool down, Takes a long time to cool enough to turn over to do other end. When I did I found that the back end flux had run off into the matting, the peeling off of which gave the appearance of a boiler with a violent fungal infection!! It took me a goodly while to clean all that lot off until, praying that the flux had stayed in the joins, I applied more flux, re-seated the rings and repeated the process with similar results. Repositioned for top bushes and finished the job, or so I thought.......
After pickling and cleaning off I found that one return tube on both ends hadn't run into the joint and the tube was loose, the pressure gauge bush on the front plate had soldered but not dropped into the hole when the solder melted and finally the solder on the backplate rim between the rim and the bottom of the fire tube in way of the aforementioned ding had run but was showing no sign of a fillet for 1 ". Apart from this all looked neat and tidy with no excess of solder all over the place. I resoldered the back plate with another ring of solder but there was still a small gap so did it a gain after straightening the left over bits of solder putting them in the gap This time backplate all ok. Re-did the front plate giving the offending bush a little encouragement with my little hammer. Result. I'm pleased. Used 12feet of 1mm Silverflow55 wire, 50gms of flux and best part of 4Kg Gas. Suntan's coming on well though!
Thankyou all for your advice, pictures and encouragement.
Next job, rig up an hydraulic test rig.
Jerry.
-
Looks good Jerry could hear the sigh of relief over here any eyebrows left , my turn shortly and after watching your video I must revise my heating arrangement as mentioned in another post my first boiler was done with oxy gear and now I have propane also found citric acid in local woolworths thanks for your posts have been a great help
Cheers
John
-
Jerry,
Congratulations on your first boiler build, it's not one of the easiest boilers to braze up with the thickness of the copper, but you have done it now and any others will be a doddle, well done.
If you don't wish to make a full hydraulic test kit a quick way is to get a pressure gauge about 3 x the test pressure required, make a fitting to suit the gauge , which is usually 1/4 B.S.P and to suit one of the bushes in your boiler.
Totally fill the boiler with cold water and screw the gauge on with all other outlets plugged, gently heat the side of the boiler with a plumbers blow lamp, and I mean gently, watch the pressure rise in 20 p.s.i stages to what ever your W.P. will be, letting it sit between stages and when it starts to drop gently heat again to take the pressure up in 20 p.s.i. i stages to eventually you reach 2 x the W.P.
Do this in very easy stages as the copper is still very soft in its annealed state and if pressure is applied to quickly you can blow out the boiler into a barrel shape.
Be care full as you get near the test pressure as if you hold the burner on to the boiler it can very quickly whip the pressure up.
Make sure that the boiler and surrounding area is completely dry and if there are any leaks you will see the pressure dropping rapidly and water will be coming from the leaking joint.
If you have a pressure gauge but not the tap to make an adapter let me know and if it's 1/4 B.S.P. I can make you one.
George.
-
That looks great. I would have been shutting the torch down about the four minute mark and looking for more torches. I usually use two or three, with one provideiing what I call kick over heat and the others background heat, but to each there own if it gets the job done.
Regards,
Gerald.
-
Gerald, I've only got one big torch so needs must. Thanks George, did test before I got your post. I made a test rig out of old car tyre pump. Filled the boiler and bike pump with water and took her up to 60psi. Found a couple of the blanking plugs leaking past the new copper washers. Re sealed all the plugs with dreibond and checked again. Took her up to 120 psi in stages and left it for an hour with no loss of pressure. My gauge compared with pump gauge checked against. My best Bluepoint gauge. Will check the little gauge tomorrow when I make a siphon fitting.
Jerry.
-
As I said what ever gets the job done, I do not have a large torch so must use a number of smaller ones
Regards,
Gerald.
-
Made up a siphon tube and fitting for the miniature gauge then did another
pressure test to compare gauge with standard. All ok.
Made a start on the smoke box made from a desk swing bin from Home and Bargains. Marked off for the cut then cut can to size with shears. Tidied up the cut edge with an emery drum in the dremel. Marked out and cut the holes for the extensions for gauge and sight glass lower fitting. Cut the hole for the burner by drilling a big hole with a step drill then finishing with shears and dremel. Use some of the waste metal to make an internal flame shroud to keep flame in the fire tube. Used a couple of 1/16" copper revers to hold in place until brazed. Used same method to cut hole for chimney. Drilled 3x 2mm holes through smoke box and end of shell at 120° and attached smoke box with self tapping screws. Will do fire box tomorrow.
Jerry.
-
Spent all today making fittings for super heater and economiser to pass through and be supported by the fire and smoke boxes. Started to consider where everything's going to go on this plant. Funnel and burner/gas tank forward. Gauge and sight glass front oiler and regulator aft starboard. Feed pump mid length starboard, suction aft, delivery to economiser forward. Whistle on top of dome. Looks like the de-oiler will go port side. This boat will probably have a pair of feedwater tanks with the option of a sea suction for Llanberis. Anyone got a drawing for a gas attenuator?
I thought I'd try brazing the copper funnel to the smoke box so bought a couple of fluxes rod in the Go System from B&Q. Said they were for copper and stainless steel. 650° to 700° melting. Got both copper and s/s red hot, applied rod to work and the flux liquified and ran off, rod curled up and dropped off and no way could I melt it again. Copper showed signs of melting/blistering. Cleaned everything again and with the last little bit of silver solder managed to tack flue in place. Riveted the burner hole guide in place before dinner. Will add a couple more rivets tomorrow.
Jerry.
-
Made up the economiser. It started out just like George's but had a mind of its own and this is where it wanted to be so who am I to disagree. All is nearly complete just the extension banjo for the top sight glass fitting, cladding and banding to do. Am sticking with the cream radiator paint but got to find some etch primer for the stainless steel first.
Jerry.
-
Jerry has Cnfn suddenly been turned sideways to the world HA HA HA HA ......Your pics are suddenly on their side O0
Dave
-
Jerry .
It doesn't matter what shape the economiser is as long as the residue heat going up the chimney gets all around the coil.
I may suggest however that if you intend to stick the exhaust up the funnel I would not lag the inside of the smoke box with ceramic insulation as there will be quite a bit of moisture from the exhaust even tho' you have an oil trap and the wool will get saturated in steam oil.
I stick my exhaust up the funnel after the oil trap and the inside of the smoke box gets very wet with a sticky oil residue, this hasn't created any problems over the 15 years that my boiler has been like that as it will dry out but if ceramic wool is inside it will become a gooey mess.
George.
-
Hi again Stav, since the 300Kb experiment my pictures post laterally distorted. If you click on the title they come up ok.
George, totally agree, will have external exhaust. I need to think about a burner. Can you recommend a brand new burner to run off squat round camping disposable cylinders that you know will suit this boiler/bogstandard combo so I can start the adaptation. Out with Kity this weekend to cut the mahogany for the cladding. Hopefully, brass banding arrives tomorrow.
Did a 30mile bike ride today up to Llanberis on to and through Bangor and back home via Felinheli. Some stiff climbs and only a month till Etape Eryri.
Thanks for the advice.
Jerry.
-
Hi again Stav, since the 300Kb experiment my pictures post laterally distorted. If you click on the title they come up ok.
George, totally agree, will have external exhaust. I need to think about a burner. Can you recommend a brand new burner to run off squat round camping disposable cylinders that you know will suit this boiler/bogstandard combo so I can start the adaptation. Out with Kity this weekend to cut the mahogany for the cladding. Hopefully, brass banding arrives tomorrow.
Did a 30mile bike ride today up to Llanberis on to and through Bangor and back home via Felinheli. Some stiff climbs and only a month till Etape Eryri.
Thanks for the advice.
Jerry.
Jerry.
I use a head from a standard plumbers blow lamp on a swan neck fitted to the screw on top from the blowlamp, the one in the pic is a very old one but the modern ones work as well.
Patternmaker when he built his boiler used this method.
Good to hear that you are still pedaling, my Neuralgia is much better so I hope to get started again when the weather up here gets a bit warmer and better.
George.
-
Ok, I need some help on the burner. I want to use EN 417 gas canisters as they are very common. I've had a good look and keep coming up with Sievert 2293 torch which has a suitable valve and head and a connection between the two easily modified to a swan neck. It's rated at 2.3KW. Is this enough for my boiler?
Jerry.
-
Jerry, What is the boiler volume? Maybe I missed it somewhere?
-
Boiler volume max= 750cc..
Jerry.
-
Really nice boiler work Jerry! I think you may just get by with the torch size you have given your return design. Depends on steam usage as you know. You might consider the parallel gas can set-up to keep gas expansion , cooling, and pressure drop to a minimum....
-
My electric kettle is 3 KW and boils 2 litres plus in 5 minutes so I'm hoping 2.3KW will have heat to spare. I don't know the output of my blowtorch used to solder the boiler but the flame is a foot long and 1 1/2" wide but it wouldn't fit in the hole!
Jerry.
-
the brass torch head I made will melt silver solder 1/16 wire in 5-10 seconds. The issue is how much heat is transferred by the boiler/torch design into the water.
I would suspect that in a good 60-70% transfer system (your boiler and torch), you might see boil at 5 min and steam at pressure 10 min.
I think But/pro mix has higher heat output than regular propane.
-
I think the purpose of the propane in the mix is to lower the temperature the LPG evaporates. Butane is pretty useless at 0°C. As you say there will also be a small gain in heat due to the addition of propane. The torch should arrive tomorrow and if the sight glass, O rings and solder arrive too I should be able to do a steam test. I took the bezel off the pressure gauge and marked the dial with a red line at 66psi. The bezel came off first tap which was a surprise. I held the square section where the siphon fits in a hand vice, put the hand vice in the bench vice dial down and used a piece of brass sheet and a very small hammer to drive the bezel off. The tinware is painted and back on. All unions, plugs etc have annealed copper washers and loctite RTV applied. The steam valve is connected to the superheater and the outlet connected to the regulator/oiler. And the output pipe blanked off. I removed the ball from the clack valve and will connect the economiser to the clack and blank the end to check for leaks. The wood is cut for the cladding. So hanging fire at the moment.
Jerry.
-
The first picture shows on the left my pencil flame torch and on the right the intended (after modification) torch. It appeared quite small at first sight but gives a goodly roaring flame. A funny thing, I was using my pencil torch and accidentally laid it on its side and was surprised that it didn't flare. Thinking it was nearly empty I turned it upside down and it still didn't flare. Mindful of the Chinese burner thread I wondered if there was a pickup device inside to prevent liquid pickup and was going to open up the can when empty and have a shuffty. Before I could the new burner arrived and on reading the instructions (sorry but I can't help it) discovered that the Sievert burner transfers heat to the valve head and acts as a vaporiser and will happily work upside down once warmed up. Interesting.
Finally the sight glass tube, O rings and silver solder arrived so I was able to box off the boiler and today performed the first steam test. 1st problem, the sight glass is 8mm o/d and the gland nut is threaded 3/8 ME which didn't leave me enough room to get the 1 mm section O rings in. 2nd problem, I had to ease open the 8mm holes to get a sliding fit for the glass. Sorted that with the dremel and sorted the O ring problem by assembling the sight glass with loctite RTV and forming O rings. Left it overnight to cure and did the test this morning.
1st test.
Ambient temp= 15°C
Level = 1/2 way up the glass
Time to safety lifting = 10 minutes.
Safety leaked a small amount of steam when pressure rising and lifted at 60 psi.
Safety re-seated at 30psi. Not good. Will check using "Wear's" safety valve which just pops off.
2nd test.
Boiler warm after refilling
Level at 5/8 full
Time to safety lifting 8 minutes
Tapping safety after lifting re-seats valve but without it vents down to 30 psi.
Minor discolouration of fire box paint, chimney and smoke box paint unaffected.
Gas canister ice cold but flame ok.
Safety valve performance excepted I am a very happy bunny.
Onwards to lagging and wood cladding.
Jerry.
-
I make my own "O" rings. Just slice a piece off the end of an end of appropriate size silicon tube.
-
Still following with muchos interestos. Looks great.
Ben
-
Well it's been a while since my last post but the boiler is finished. I made up 40 or so 10mm x 3mm strips of mahogany a little longer than the boiler. Approximate number required was 36 so each one was 10° to the next so put a 5° chamfer on each plank edges with a small block plane, (I guessed the 5°). Starting at the top, I used a small drum sanding tool in the dremel to cut the planks to fit around all the bushes and stuck the planks on with superglue. When complete I put pencil marks all around the drum to act as indicators when planing the strips to circular, planed away the bulk with the block plane, before finishing off with a bit of a sand. Three coats of satin varnish with a light sanding between each coat finished it off nicely. When I marked out for the bushes at the start off the build I made sure I would be able to use five equally spaced 1/4" wide brass banding to secure the cladding. The front and rear bands are right at the ends of the boiler. I'm not a fan of wood sticking out past the bands. On my previous banding of the Maccsteam boiler in "Wear" I used 12" lengths of banding which were too short so I had to solder in a lap joint to get them to fit around the cladding with enough left over to make tabs to be able to tighten them. I just bent over by 90° a 1/4" long tab, drilled them for 10 BA nuts and bolts. It always looked amateurish to me but I never had a better idea until I saw a recent post on here showing how it should be done. I can't find it now but whoever it was, thanks. Very profeshnial!
So there she is, all done and tested and only awaiting the safety valve to be sorted, will have to chase that up.
I photo'd both boilers together to give a better idea of the size of the Scotch boiler. Both have the same water capacity (750cc) but the new one makes a lot more steam.
Will make a start on the engine (Bogstandard) soon.
Thanks for watching.
Jerry.
-
Those containments on the 1/4" brass bands are superb Jerry :-)) ........ they also make my standard 'just bent over by 90° a 1/4" long tab, drilled them for 10 BA nuts and bolts look amateurish & pale in comparison .............Derek
-
Cut the burner pipe in half, cut 5/16" x 40 ME threads on each cut end then made up a pair of hex fittings and the pipe so that's the burner sorted.
Right then, started on the engine. First job, print out the instructions. No paper so down toTesco, buy a ream of paper. Start printing, after 13 pages printer ink runs out, b&w and colour. Back to Tesco. Buy 2 cartridges. £22. Set up the print run then off in the car to look for scrap to build engine out of. We've only got two that deal in non ferrous. No joy but put me on to a machining business that makes scientific stuff, all CAD and stainless steel. Struck gold, help yourself any time. Wouldn't even let me buy him a pint. What's even better it's only 2minutes walk from the lake and I never even knew it was there. I got the aluminium plate off a friend. So got enough to build 2 engines and more.
Jerry.
-
Jerry,
If you fell into the lake you would come out with a salmon in your pocket.
George.
-
Looking forward to watching. I will have a nice shiny lathe soon, so I may follow you, and do one myself.....
-
At the moment I don't have any suitable brass stock to make the cylinder blocks and the two pieces of s/a round I have are too large to fit in the milling vice. I may have some coming so decided to make the bearing block blanks first.
The instructions say to make a couple of spares of each part in case any get spoiled in future operation so I am making twice as many and if I don't Horlicks any parts will build two engines.
I began by cutting a round bar into manageable pieces in the lathe set at minimum speed and using a junior hacksaw. This method used for neatness as I'm crap with a hacksaw. I put each of thee pieces in the three jaw using a stop on the tail stock to set the required length befor tarting off slightly oversize. This way I got two pieces out of each length. I then faced off each piece to final length of 20mm.
I shipped the milling attachment and dialled it in using a parallel gripped in the jaws, hard up against the vertical face to set the fixed jaw parallel to the bed and square to the spindle.
Now I was ready to start milling. Shipped the Jacobs chuck on the spindle loaded with my largest cutter (6mm). Loaded one of the blanks in the centre of the vice jaws hard up against the vertical face and tightens the jaws. Using 2nd gear and high motor speed I cut a face until it was just a little over 10mm wide. With the saddle locked in this position I set up a saddle stop to allow me to repeat this operation without further measuring. The operation required several passes at increasing depths and is quite time consuming. After completing the first face I remove the piece from the vice and cleaned up all the swarf around and inside the jaws, before loading the next piece. I did this for every piece. The instructions warn that a single chip will throw the measurements out. I managed to cut all eight pieces. This is the "first datum face" 20mmx10mm. And is marked with red magic marker. Finally as stressed in the instructions I used a couple of strokes with the file to de-burr the edges. Failure to do this has the same effect as loose swarf.
Today I started on the the "second datum face", 20mmx15mm. at right angles to the first. I put the piece in the milling vice with the first datum face to the fixed jaw and milled the second face until it reached the first face then set up the saddle stop. The second face I marked with blue magic marker. After de-burring I used an angle plate to check the two faces and the round end were all square then repeated this process with the remaining seven pieces without further measurement. This second cut removes a lot more metal than the first and I found I could only do three pieces before the motor got too hot to continue. It needed two hours to cool. Thank God for GP practice and qualifying. NW200 was good too. Just the Lightweight TT tonight and I will be half way to eight bearing block blanks.
Jerry.
-
Jerry,
"At the moment I don't have any suitable brass stock to make the cylinder blocks." The original design used scrap cast iron for the cylinder block. Was it a matter of availability of material or something else that changed you mind to use brass?
Regards,
Barry M
-
Hi Barry, instructions say you can use anything except aluminium. I chose brass to avoid any possible corrosion problems. My TVR1A is brass and I take no precautions between runs and over winter layup. No other reason though. I haven't got any cast iron either. I'm led to believe it machines easily. Only experience I have is reboring Triumph cylinder barrels and had no problems with them.
Jerry.
-
Jerry,
Aye, I made my version of Bogstandard's engine from a handy bit of cast iron with no machining problems but, as you say, brass eliminates the corrosion possibility.
The most awkward bit I found was getting the crankshaft components lined up, for which a third hand comes in useful. Good luck!
Barry M
-
Barry, a question. There's a fair bit of meat in the cylinder block. Do you know of any reason not to increase the bore dimensions to 12mm?
Jerry.
-
Jerry,
I think you should be OK but I will have a look at my engine to see if it would throw up any problems. You could also try contacting John Bogstandard via the Paddleducks Forum if he still posts there. I have an email address for him but I'm not sure if it is still current. I did find him very helpful during my build. (PM me if you want to try this route.)
I'll get back to you.
Barry M
-
Jerry,
Bogstandard writes that he chose the 10 x 20 route because it was used for a previous engine and permitted him to use some parts of its design. As long as you remember to steer clear of the steam ports when drilling for the cover securing studs, I don't see why you could not increase the bore to 12mm.
Regards,
Barry M
-
Barry, so kind, much obliged to you. The only problem I can see would be top cover and bottom cover/ gland studs and valve chests studs. I'll have a good look through the instructions to confirm. The only problem I'm having is my head and my lathe are imperial and the engine is metric. Intend keeping the build metric where possible and using imperial if it means I have to buy new taps and dies. Thank god for digital calipers! The metric/imperial button makes a huge contribution.
Thanks for watching.
Jerry.
-
Hi Jerry,
I am very familiar with John's engine since I designed the valve gear for it.
Be careful, if you increase the bore to 12mm you will need to increase the diameter of the top and bottom covers or you will have very little room for the cover fixing screws.
The standard covers have a 4mm wide land with 2.2mm holes for the screws... a 12mm bore will reduce the land size to 3mm... this would give you about 0.015" clearance on the mounting screws, after you increase the PCD of the fixing screws... I.E. not enough... so the covers would need to increase in outside dia by at least 1.5mm, better with an extra 2mm.
This presents several problems.
1. The covers would overhang the cylinder block, which is 18mm wide.
2. The extra diameter will give you problems with the entabulature plate... where the clearance holes for the bottom cover will again be larger in dia then the cylinder block and the additional diameter will mean that you will need to re-locate the 6 x cylinder block mounting screws... these will need careful re-location or you could run into problems with the valve chest fixing screws... they are already pretty close to each other.
If you really want to increase the bore then I would suggest you make the cylinder block 20mm wide rather than 18mm and increase the width of the valve chests to suit, which will give you a little more room for adjustment and will eliminate the overhang of the top and bottom covers.
If you are going to use BRASS for the cylinder block, then I would suggest you use Stainless Steel for the pistons... don't use Brass or you will end up with Galling.
Why are you considering increasing the Bore size?
I wish you every success with the build, it is a great engine.
Best regards.
AlexC aka Sandy. :-)) :}
EDIT... if you wish to use imperial measurements where possible... you could increase the bore to 7/16" with little issue other than minor PCD change on the cover screws.
You can substitute 8BA for 2mm screws and 6BA for 3mm screws, both are available with one size smaller Hex Heads, which look much nicer.
-
Jerry,
As soon as I pressed 'Post', I wondered if I should have included 'errors and omissions excepted' in it somewhere and I bow to obviously superior knowledge.
As far as measuring systems are concerned, I machined in metric but threaded in BA as I did not have small metric taps at the time and this solved the problem. I also added a few tweaks such as oil cups on the main bearings.
To insulate the block, I made a dummy cover complete with dummy cylinder/valve covers which was lined with ceramic insulating material and ended up with this. The steam pipes had still to be insulated at the time of the photo and the drain plug in the oiler is to be changed for a drain cock.
Barry M
-
Sandy and Barry, great input guys, food for thought. Reason for increased bore, I've got a lot of steam and a proper superheater not a drier. However unlike I/C I have no idea about the relationship between bore and stroke as it applies to steam engines. The bogstandard has a smaller bore than the TVR1A but a larger stroke. I guessed that if I made the bore similar that I would be able to swing a larger prop with more pitch. I may be wrong though.
I agree about making the piston out of s/steel. Expansion coefficient of my s/s is less than the brass cylinder so see no probs there. I do have some phosphor bronze which I believe is more compatible. Will experiment with both. Thanks for the tip about switching to BA threads. I have all the kit for that and today I kind friend at the lake gave me a whole load f BA set screws. Lovely engine Barry, the wooden jacket really sets it off.
I might not get much done this week as I've got to get our bikes ready for the Etape Eryri next Sunday, 47miles with three stiff climbs. Should be a great event with over a thousand entrants. The next week may be in recovery mode.
Jerry.
-
Jerry C posted: -
Reason for increased bore, I've got a lot of steam and a proper superheater not a drier. However unlike I/C I have no idea about the relationship between bore and stroke as it applies to steam engines. The bogstandard has a smaller bore than the TVR1A but a larger stroke. I guessed that if I made the bore similar that I would be able to swing a larger prop with more pitch.
Hi Jerry,
The torque produced is a function of force x radius (force being working pressure x piston area and Radius being half the stroke), therefore a longer stroke engine will produce more torque than an engine having the same bore but shorter stroke at the same working pressure.
The shorter stroke engine will have the higher speed(rpm) band.
For driving a large prop the slower long stroke engine will be the best solution.
Increasing the working pressure will have the same effect as increasing the bore whilst keeping the stroke the same... providing the boiler can deliver the steam required at the increased pressure.
A stroke of 2 x bore is probably about as High as is generally feasible for small model engines... any higher and condensation losses begin to have a huge effect... unlike full size, where stroke can be 4 or 5 times the bore... as with Mississippi sternwheelers, however, these generally used wet steam at relatively low pressure and relied on the wet steam for lubrication... you can't get away with this using superheated steam.
Go easy on using super heat...
1, displacement lubricators don't work very well with even mild superheated steam.
2, Brass and Bronze are more prone to galling at the higher temperatures... especially if the lubricator is compromised.
Superheating is completely unnecessary for this type of engine as it is effectively a non expansion design... the piston valve does not have any lap and is designed to allow simple reversing by swapping the inlet an exhaust pipes, in the same way as an oscillating engine... a mild steam drying would be more than adequate.
To make use of steam expansion you need to cutoff the steam input at part stroke, say 55% or less, and allow the steam to expand for the remainder of the stroke... but, even this would not be the best use of superheated steam if both cylinders were the same dimensions.
Superheating only comes into it's own when used with a double, triple or quadruple expansion engine having early cutoff at say 45%, and with the exhaust from each cylinder passing to the input of the next, with the final cylinder exhausting into a partial vacuum... usually combined with a true condenser.
I would not recommend using superheated steam with this engine... it serves no real purpose and can compromise lubrication... it will also increase the wear factor of your piston o-rings.
If you must use superheat, make it mild, and even then a good mechanical injection lubricator would be a better, and Safer, solution... as used on model steam locomotives and traction engines.
Have a good bike race and enjoy the outdoor exercises.
Best regards.
AlexC aka Sandy. :-)) :}
-
Hi Barry,
A very nice example of Bog's engine... I particularly like the cylinder cladding and the dummy cylinder and valve covers... gives it an air of reality. :-))
Well done.
Best regards.
AlexC aka Sandy. :}
-
Sandy, that's all very clear and understood. Will leave the superheater coils out of the circuit and save it for another engine maybe a compound. I'll make the pistons out of stainless steel. Thanks for the advice.
Jerry.
-
Right, I've decided to make no changes to bore size and will keep it at 10mm.
I carried on and finally after 4 days and various interruptions completed the blanks for the bearing blocks for two engines. I numbered the first set 1-4 with centre punch and second set with 1-4 with number punch set. The colours red blue and black are datum faces from which all measurements will made and guide me in positioning pieces in the milling vice.
Jerry.
-
Now I'm going to drill/ream the 5mm crankshaft holes in the bearing blocks. Look at the photo, a block is in the vice roughly central. The first datum face is sitting on the fixed jaw. The second datum face is sitting on the vertical base of the vice and the third datum face is lying against the top jaw of a clamp on the fixed jaw of the vice. To find the centre of the hole I put a broken 1/4" straight shank milling tool in the chuck with the non tool end sticking out. I brought the third datum face using the cross slide and the milling slide I rested the tool on the datum face then zeroed the top slide wheel graduations(imperial). I moved the milling attachment clear of the tool. I then turned the cross slide wheel 2 1/2 times so moving the work 1/8" or 0.125". Now the axis of the chuck is in line with the datum side of the bearing block. I set 10mm on the digital calipers then pressed the mm/thou button to convert to thou. This figure is the amount I must further move the cross slide to get the chuck axis Central to the block. Once in position I locked the top slide. I found the height of the hole(8mm) using a similar method then locked the vertical slide. I swapped the tool for a centre drill and started the hole. Swapped the centre drill for a 4.5mm drill and drilled the hole. I'm not sure how close to 5mm I should drill the hole before reaming so when the reamer arrives tomorrow I will use a number drill just under 5mm diameter then ream the hole. If this is successful it is now a simple matter to remove the piece, deburr the hole, clean the vice thoroughly and place the next block in the vise without further measuring and centre drilling, drilling and reaming. All the pieces will be the same. The position of the oil cups and feed hole are not critical so just rotating the pieces 90° in the vice and findin the new vertical position will allow all the oil cups to be quickly drilled. Rotate them 180° and find the centres of the holding down screws and drilling them will only leave a bit of shaping for visual appeal and turning small shallow bosses around the crankshaft holes on each side of the blocks to reduce friction. Finally a small chamfer in the mounting holes will ensure each block sits fair on the base plate with all holes in line. Famous last words !! Well we'll see how I get on.
I locked the slides because I noticed one of the wheels turning merrily away powered by the vibrations of milling. Fortunately I was only practicing at the time but it's worth noting with the Taig lathe. I also marked the graduations with magic marker so I can see at a glance if any things moved.
Jerry.
-
Still awaiting tools so made this. It's courtesy of Tubalcain and holds and dispenses cutting fluid or what have you. Cut hole in base of salmon/tuna can. Apply magnet on a stick to remove any filings. Remove salmon/tuna with improvised scoop. Clean out the can. Solder copper tube halfway to bottom of can. Put slightly less than 1/2 a can of oil. Dispense with paint brush. If you knock it over or it falls off bench or drill stand it won't spill. Simples.
Make salmon/tuna sandwich and give it to the wife. She'll never know.
Jerry.
-
Hi Jerry just a little tip face off your columns and countersink so they sit dead flat on the base and cylinder surround ;)
Cheers
John
-
Over the past few days been busy with other things. Etape Eryri Bach completed. It was an absolute swine. Three vicious climbs which I walked up most of. 47 miles, elapsed time 5 hours dead, moving time 4hrs 34mins. Not threatening Sir Bradley but heyho. We all finished that's the main thing. Thoroughly enjoyed the whole experience. Next is Tour de Môn Canol 76 miles in August.
Today I finished off 2 sets of bearing blocks. I used a 1/4" end mill to cut a quadrant out of the shoulders of each block using another stop to enable quick change over without measuring, slides locked throughout, before turning a 6thou boss on each face. See how in pic. I will dress them on the dressing plate when I have turned the material for the crankshaft journals.
Made two baseplates out of scrap 1/8" aluminium plate kindly donated by John at the lake. I marked out the outside dimensions and rough cut them on the scroll saw using ordinary wood cutting blade. Tidied them up on sander before dressing on the plate. I marked the centreline datum, stuck both together with double sided tape and mounted them in the milling vise using a parallel to protect vice. All measurements done on the slides. Converted mm to inches first. The range of the slides means I couldn't do it all in one go so when I'd drilled the last hole before the limit I reversed the drill in the chuck with a short length sticking out. I put the stub of the drill back in the hole, slacked off the vise then wound the cross slide to the other end, clamped the pieces back in the vice and continued. I Nick, I'm sure dolls house gear is an ok scale for A Q. Last pic shows my bypass overboard discharge skin fitting. Sea suction is similar. That pipe looks a bit vulnerable as it is. Epoxy a brass washer over it and crop it off.
Jerry. using a #34 drill for 6BA. Again the range of the vertical slide prevented me drilling the other side so I reversed one plate, bolted them together via the bearing block hole then drilled the remaining holes through the previous holes on the drill stand
Finally mounted the blocks and the 5mm reamer goes through ok.
Jerry.
-
Hi Jerry, nice work so far, I will be starting my Alpha soon, much bigger than yours, bus less complicated. You seem to have a bit of mixed threads, part of your post on my AQ build has appeared in this thread, the wee sprites in your computer have got a little mixed up perhaps....
-
No idea how that happened Nick. What's an Alpha?
Jerry.
-
Alpha is a largish oscillator from Brunel Models, comes as a set of castings and will be the first project for my new lathe. It may seem like a strange choice, but, it is a relatively simple job, and the parts are quite big, easier for my Mr Magoo eyes to see and will get me back into using a lathe, I sold my last one about 20 years ago when, I think, a new washing machine or some other domestic hardware was required.
http://www.brunell.com/popuplargeimage.asp?strImage=121.jpg&strImageType=product&strPageTitle=apostrophemarkALPHAapostrophemark%20TWIN%20MARINE%20ENGINE
-
Hi Jerry,
Looking at your post with the bearing blocks set up I ask the question?
How are you going to get the shaft in as the bearings are not split ?
I see from Barry's pic that the main shaft is made up in pieces and bolted to the shaft which will allow the shaft to be assembled in pieces on the base with the solid bearing blocks and hopefully it will all line up, but what happens if you ever require the shaft to come back out?
Perhaps Barry could comment on how he managed to make and fit the main shaft.
I have never been a fan of shafts with the webs bolted and bearings that were not split.
George.
-
Hi George, I'm sure it'll be alright, there's a fair few around by now. I've no real problems with a built up crankshaft motorcycles have been using them for yonks. I've added a photo of a photo to clarify. There is a pinch bolt between the main and big end journal holes. The third, smaller hole is to stress relieve the slot. I suppose it comes out easier than it goes in.
Jerry.
-
Same idea as the Duval wobbler :-))
-
Hi Jerry,
Looking at your post with the bearing blocks set up I ask the question?
How are you going to get the shaft in as the bearings are not split ?
I see from Barry's pic that the main shaft is made up in pieces and bolted to the shaft which will allow the shaft to be assembled in pieces on the base with the solid bearing blocks and hopefully it will all line up, but what happens if you ever require the shaft to come back out?
Perhaps Barry could comment on how he managed to make and fit the main shaft.
I have never been a fan of shafts with the webs bolted and bearings that were not split.
George.
George,
All the pins forming the crankshaft are secured in the webs by the clamping screws running through the latter. It's a case of building it up section by section between the main bearings and checking the alignment and offset as you go. (This is accompanied by many words which cannot be repeated on the Forum as sections slip out of alignment - frequently.) Not easy and a third set of fingers would be useful but it works in the end.
Barry
-
George,
All the pins forming the crankshaft are secured in the webs by the clamping screws running through the latter. It's a case of building it up section by section between the main bearings and checking the alignment and offset as you go. (This is accompanied by many words which cannot be repeated on the Forum as sections slip out of alignment - frequently.) Not easy and a third set of fingers would be useful but it works in the end.
Barry
Hi Barry,
Just as I thought, I think that it,s a bad design to make the shaft as the drawing and it must be a real pest to get them all in line.
Please don't think that I am down crying BOG'S design as I do like it very much but every thing can be improved on hindsight.
I shall stick with fabricating my crankshafts by glueing withn Loctite 603 and then taper pin the joints.
All as per the pics of a Stuart Launch engine recently completed, also the bearings changed as I think that the method employed by Stuart in that they use the base plate as the bottom half of thebearings which mean you must have a very long reamer to ream the 3- blocks in situe. I have made the bottom half and top half together as per full size practise and very much easier if the shaft ever has to be removed.
George.
-
I agree with George with no disrespect to the original design, unfortunately this design does not allow for wear, split bearings can be reamed an exact fit and shimmed to allow for running in as wear will take place after a few runs,I would also make large oil cups to prevent dirt ingress O0
Cheers
John
-
I deviated from Bog's design by press-fitting bronze bearing bushes in the main bearings and reaming through the lot in situ. I also installed oil cups as I thought the original idea of simple holes in the bearings would be messy in practice.
As I am sure Bog would be the first to acknowledge, his design of an "engine from scrap" made up as he went along, was just a starting point. There's nothing to stop anybody applying their own tweaks as they think fit.
Cheers,
Barry M
-
Please keep all mods coming, surely they are food for thought and other builders can incorporate them in their builds. However I intend to carry on building the engine as it is. On the subject of future wear I don't envisage any major problems. I run my present plant 2hours per week max. I think this engine will outlast me and anyway I'm building two at the same time so it should last twice as long. Of course if they don't work then they'll last forever. Had a great day at the lake today with S L Wear which performed faultlessly.
Jerry.
-
Please keep all mods coming, surely they are food for thought and other builders can incorporate them in their builds. However I intend to carry on building the engine as it is. On the subject of future wear I don't envisage any major problems. I run my present plant 2hours per week max. I think this engine will outlast me and anyway I'm building two at the same time so it should last twice as long. Of course if they don't work then they'll last forever. Had a great day at the lake today with S L Wear which performed faultlessly.
Jerry.
Jerry,
I was never concerned about bearing wear, these little engines with small dia shafts can run for ever, more about how to assemble the shaft and get everything to line up without the bearings being split.
Barry in his post confirmed that it is a bit of a trial getting them all to line up with the use of many expletives and much frustration and the need for another hand.
So you have that to look forward to x 2, best of luck.
George.
-
Today and yesterday oi 'ave mostly been finishing off the base plates. I cut out the clearance holes for the crank webs. I used a 1/8" mill in the chuck and the plates in the milling attachment. Again I had to slide the piece in the jaws because of the limited throw of the milling slides. I tidied up the cuts with a file before bolting both plates together and again with the pieces in the vice I used the file to make them both the same. After de burring all the edges I moved on to turning a piece of 6mm round stainless steel to 5mm for all the shafts. I did a test to check that the rotating centre was concentric with the three jaw chuck. I made a couple of passes with the tool over a 65mm length, then checked the diameters at the ends and middle of the cut. The ends were 7thou different with the middle 3 1/2 thou. Slacked off the adjustment Allen screw on the tailstock and moved it a fraction then locked it off. Another couple of cuts and re measured and only 1 thou out over 65 mm. Near enough for me. Turned a new piece down to 1 thou less than 5 mm then polished the piece linisher tape while spinning it in the lathe. Checked that all bearing blocks fitted on shaft without binding. They all feel Perfick to me. I put the 4 bearing blocks on the shaft and dressed the bases on the dressing plate until all the same and all tool marks removed. Repeated the process on tops and sides. Used the plate to make sure both base plates also flat. Loosely attached the bearing blocks by numbers to corresponding base plate, slid shaft through bearings and tightened the screws. Shaft turns and slides freely with no play. Just enough clearance for oil. Result!! I'll make all the shaft pieces tomorrow. Then I'll have to go bumming again for stock for the crank webs. I've got a suitable piece for the flywheel.
I apologise for mixing up mm and thou but I can't think in metric.
Jerry.
-
Good job Jerry! I can feel your satisfaction from here, and well deserved. :-))
Don't worry about the metric and imperial, I also use a mixture when measuring things. I tend to use inches for "big" measurements with a tape and metric for "small" ones with a vernier or six inch ruler. Sorry, 150 mm ruler. {-)
Greg
-
Today I finished all the shafts for the crankshafts. Just a case of feeding the stock through the chuck turning to 5mm, removing the tool marks with linisher tape, de burring and parting off to length.
I went up to the lake to my friendly factory man for some 28mm brass for the crank webs but alas no joy, only stainless steel, so got two pieces 28.6 mm diameter and some brass to make the cross heads out of. Returned to workshop, sharpened tools, and started cutting web blanks. It machines OK but, when it came time to part one off, my parting tool wouldn't look at it. Used a round nose tool to make a guide cut and with piece rotating, cut them off with big hacksaw. Easier than I thought it would be. Made four before dinner. Will do some more tomorrow but got to go for a 42 mile bike ride in the afternoon.
Jerry.
-
Finished the web discs and started on the drilling. Similar M.O. As for drilling the base plates. Shipped the milling attachment and the Jacobs chuck. Put a disc in the milling vice Central and backed it up with a parallel. I found the vertical centre of the disc and locked the vertical slide. Found the horizontal centre and zeroed the wheel. Backed the slide out a little then approached the centre again. All positions approached from out side to eliminate backlash problems. Centre drilled then drilled through with 4.7mm stub drill followed by 5mm reamer. Wound the slide out the required distance (0.315"), overshot a little then came back to the mark. Centre drilled followed by 2.5mm drill. Returned slide to zero then moved slide in 0.393" and drilled 3.7mm hole followed by 4mm reamer. Put a stop on the vise abutting the piece then removed piece and loaded the next one against the stop. Repeated the process 3 times, deburred and put them in the bearings on the shafts with big end shafts fitted and they turn freely. More satisfaction, oh yes.
Jerry.
-
Looking good Jerry ,my choice would have been a four jaw chuck and drill all before cutting off to size how will you secure these disks to the shafts?
Cheers
John
-
John, the man says that if you drill first then cut, if the drill wanders the whole thing doesn't work. He says to use a jig and drill on drill press. Mine shakes about a lot and so I steer clear of it whenever there is an alternative. As to securing webs to shafts, after shaping (in bulk) individual webs are cut with a slot drill through the centre of each 4 and 5mm hole just breaking through into the 2.5mm crack stopping hole. A hole is drilled across the cut, between the 4 and 5 mm holes, threaded on one side, with a cap headed screw inserted to pinch the webs onto the shafts. It's easier with a picture but I don't want to keep copying bogstandard's instructions. I've printed them off from paddle ducks site and until I know better am sticking to what he says. I'm working with a Taig outfit and prefer to use the graduated(imperial) wheels to navigate(parallel and meridian sailing) around the cutting/drilling plan, rather than marking out and drilling marked holes.
Thanks for watching.
Jerry.
-
On Thursday I started shaping the crank webs on the milling attachment. I ganged them all together with 5 & 4 mm rods in place and 0.5 mm shims under the 4 mm rod ends to ensure cuts are parallel to the hole centers and clamped it all up, leaving rods and shims in place for strength. Applying cutting fluid liberally with a brush I started cutting. What a horrible job!! Noisy, smelly and messy. This stainless steel turned beautifully but milling is a different ball game. Doesn't mill easily. Shrapnel flying everywhere, mostly in my direction. Best I could manage were 10 thou cuts. My largest cutter is a 1/4" triple fluted. It's sharp but made heavy weather of it. It took 4 hours to do the first side. The final finish however was exceptionally good. Turned the pieces round and carried on this morning after a cup of tea in the garden watching a large flock of swallows flitting around having their breakfast. One even took a fly off my head. Today went better or maybe I'd gone a bit deaf from yesterday. Finished off in three hours. At the end I was getting very envious of you guys with Myfords and bigger. Deburred and set the first web in the milling vice using the same rod and shim set up to get pinch bolt hole square across the web. Center drilled then drilled across the web leaving a blind hole for aesthetic reasons. Used the correct tapping drill for 8 BA then drilled half way through with a number drill (can't remember which one for the clearance hole then tapped the hole. All went well until the third web when I broke the end of the taper tap. Disaster! Thoughts of driving to Newtown on Monday for removal by spark erosion or worse still making another web! What to do. I drilled through from the other side until the drill met the bit of tap and as expected broke off at the shank. Pulled the broken piece of drill out then with the piece on the anvil on the bench vice drove the shank through the hole and knocked the tap part straight out the way it went in. My luck's still running! Never did like blind holes anyway. So I saved the piece. Carried on using another number drill a fraction bigger than the tapping drill and no more blind holes. Went ok from then on.
Finally cut the slits with the slitting saw using the same lay out but this time removing the rods prior to cutting.
Assembled both crankshafts using temporary screws. Final assembly will use Allen head set screws in counter bores. The shafts are only a little tight but will bed them in with an electric drill. The man says to use T cut or Brasso to bed in but I'm not happy introducing abrasives into the bearings so will run in on kerosine. So I'm a tied but happy little bunny.
No more work on the engines for a bit cos I've got to polish 100 EPNS table forks and bend the tines to make place card holders for daughters wedding in a fortnight. Probably a few other jobs to do as well.
Jerry.
-
Excellent work Jerry, keep going....
-
:-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) Lovely recovery Jerry.
With your daughter's wedding coming up I'm surprised you can find the time or money %% to do any engine building at all! And the bike ride??!
Good luck with the cycling, the wedding and finding time to do a little engineering. Looking forward to the next episode.
Greg
-
Thanks guys. I was mortified when I broke the tap. I broke three 1/4" Whitworth taps when cleaning out crankcase threads on triumph engines in another life. I used to take them to a firm in Newtown and they removed them using spark erosion. Used to take a couple of hours but he was a vintage bike geek and never ever charged me. I stopped doing them and drilled through then heli coiled them all. The guy that owned Re-coil gave me unlimited sets of everything I needed. Never had an oil leak. Am in serious training for the Tour de Môn Canol in August. 76 miles but compared to Etape Eryri the hills are a doddle. Famous last words. Thanks for the encouragement.
Jerry.
-
My dad worked for a company called Metalock, and he used to break a lot of taps, as some jobs had thousands of tapped holes. He used a little device that had 3 prongs that slid into the flutes on the broken tap, enabling them to be unscrewed. The actual pieces of machinery he would be repairing being far too big to take somewhere for spark erosion......
-
They probably weren't 8BA taps. I've seen the metaloc process used at sea. Drill a hole, tap it and screw in a brass plug. Drill another interlocking hole and repeat the process the full length of the crack finished off with molten lead? Simple but saves a fortune in castings.
Jerry.
-
The material that went across the fracture was mild steel, and the studs were HT steel, no hex head but a little tab that fitted into a socket driven by an air wrench, I used to spend the school holidays at work with the old man the last couple of years at school and became quite adept at it....
-
I believe there was another crack solution. A bit like the old repairs to cracked china. They drill holes either side of the crack a set distance apart. Join adjacent holes with a slot then drive in a red hot dumbbell sectioned staple slightly shorter than the hole centres. When they cool they shrink and pull the crack together.
Jerry.
-
I don't recall them being red hot, one of my jobs when helping Father was to go and find a gas axe and anneal bundles fo the dumbell shaped material (Metalock keys) these would be driven into the slot with an air powered peening tool, if the slot was deep enough for 4 pieces, after annealing 5 would be rammed into the slot and ground flush. Sorry Jerry, I am diverting from your thread, I could start a thread on the subject if anyone is interested, I have a book full of photos somewhere.....
-
Don't worry, if it's of interest or educational, stick it on. I love learning.
Jerry.
-
This just about sums it up......
-
One of the jobs that the spark erosion business did was to use very fine wire and spark erosion to cut known irregular cracks in the blades of huge steam turbine blades in order to evaluate various means of crack detection. While I was there they were"cracking" various blades on a complete rotor in a big tank under water or some special solution.
Isn't technology marvellous?
Jerry.
-
Indeed it is, I once witnessed an RN technician inspect all the compressor and turbine blades in a Harrier engine after a birdstrike, he sat on top of the aircraft and used an endoscope thro a small inspection panel. My dad use to use some stuff callre Ardrox (I think) it involved various aerosols and a magnet....
-
Today I made flywheels. Used 6 BA tap for grub screw instead of 3mm.
Jerry.
-
I forgot to show how I drilled the 6 holes. They are cosmetic and lose a bit weight too. I put the flywheels together on a 5 mm shaft and put them in the milling vise with a parallel behind to protect vise base. Clamped it all up and removed the shaft and put it in the Jacobs chuck shipped on the headstock spindle. Adjusted the cross and vertical slides until flywheels would slide over the shaft. Backed off saddle and zeroed vertical and cross slide wheels. Replaced shaft with centre drill. Raised the vertical slide until happy with position of bottom hole. Read off distance moved by slide. This is the radius of the hole circle. Double this gives the Pitch Circle Diameter or P.C.D.. In the Zeus Tables is a table/set of diagrams entitled "Co-ordinates For Locating Equally Spaced Holes In Jig Boring". This table gives a b c.......factors for various numbers of holes. Multiply each a b c.....factor by the P.C.D.. The results give the amount to move each slide to move the drill to the centre of each hole. Just remember to zero the wheels before each movement. At each position, centre drill, drill the hole and deburr with a countersink bit. I made two flywheels at the same time and deburred the blind sides by hand after removing from vise.
Jerry.
-
Ah yes, the co-ordinate method, very handy little book is the Zeus. The ML10 I am picking up tomorrow comes with a small rotary table, so that will come in handy. Excellent work Jerry, keep it up....
-
Nick, is it possible to get a rotary table that would fit on my vertical slide? And could I make one?
I've never been up close and personal with one. Am jealous.
Jerry.
-
Hi Jerry, would this fit? you could make one, but you would need screwcutting facilities to make an accurate worm gear.
http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog/2-3-4--Small-Rotary-Table---4-Slot-782630.html#SID=473
-
That'll do. Bought it. Thanks Nick.
Jerry.
-
you may need to make an adaptor plate, as it is a little wider I think than the Peatol slide, which according to their website is 2 inches......
-
Hi there.
Just realised I haven't checked in on your build for a while. Too much training for snowdonian cycling! It still makes me grin thinking about it. 'Twas a great day.
Anyway, the engines coming along a treat. Look forward to seeing it in the flesh.
How on earth are you going to cope with all those fork tines out of alignment?!!! It's like nails n a blackboard!
Cheerio, Ben.
-
Ben, you're now the proud owner of a rotary table. See how we look after you!
Jem.
-
Good work! Now lots of photos of it in use please :-)
-
Jerry,
Here arsome pics of a 6" dia Rotary table that I modified recently.
No1.
The 6" table that has " Elliot " cast on the side.
No2.
I had a spare 3-jaw after replacing the chinese one supplied with my lathe with a 3-jaw Pratt-Burnered which is very much more accurate, I removed the body from the screwed back plate and made a stub mandrel which was a push fit in the 3- jaw and the same in the rotary table center which allowed the 2- parts to be inline when assembled.
No3
I milled 2- slotts opposite one another in the chuck to clamp the the 3-jaw to the table and made the clamps from some black angle iron.
No 4.
3-jaw chuck clamped to Rotary table.
No5
Asssembly mounted on milling table ready to drill end cap holes.
It's a bit big but it fits below the mill head and it's quite amazing the uses that can be found for it and it sure saves a lot of time.
Best of luck when you get the rotary table.
George.
-
George, thanks for that. It seems a useful combination. Will spend a few hours on YouTube studying. However, am now full into wedding mode, big day -7days and counting. We both in mad cleaning mode. Still got to fit in long runs in prep for this years Tour de Môn Canol, 76 miles. Got tremendous physical benefit from Etape. I can climb much better now. Summer shorts getting a bit tight around the thighs. Gut still not suited to Lycra though!! It gets in the way of my knees. Looking forward to the Grand Départ. What an honour for Yorkshire.
Did manage to make 4 eccentrics yesterday. Pics when I've got a minute.
Jerry
-
Wedding over, family back to four corners of the world and all went off splendidly. So can get back into the workshop.
Eccentrics.
Simple instructions from the man take all the mumbo jumbo out of eccentrics. I had four bits of scrap stainless, put one in the 4 jaw, faced off the end, turned down to size and turned the grooves. Parted off to size. Made one more out of stainless because one of the scrap pieces was unsuitable. Made the rest from brass. Put one piece in the milling vice and found the centre. Fitted a stop in the jaws then moved the cross slide 3 mm and drilled then reamed to 5mm. Repeated on the remaining three pieces.
Drilled and tapped a length of 5mm round for an 8 BA cap screw and washer. Put this piece in the three jaw and added one of the eccentric pieces clamped to the jaws with the cap screw. Turned the boss to 12 mm diameter very slowly taking only 2 thou cuts or it slips in the jaws. Finally, drilled and tapped the holes for the securing 6 BA grub screw. Again used a stop to make it quick and easy to do each piece.
Jerry.
-
OK, that's enough. Sorry Jerry but I'm going to have to ask you to stop posting any more. The way you are describing this engine build and the lovely pieces you are making are getting me increasingly itchy to have a go. I have no more space for tools and equipment, nor the funds to equip a model engineering setup, nor the time to do all the stuff I want. So please stop tempting me!! >:-o
On the other hand, if you feel compelled to keep showing us how you are getting on, I will just have to keep reading and enjoying. Oh, the dilemma! %%
Great job Jerry
Greg
-
Had me worried for a mo there Greg. My lathe and all its gear takes up no room at all, could probably hang it all on the wall somewhere if needed. My lathe was free and have spent about £250 on accessories. It has it's limitations but accuracy isn't an issue and I've taken it way outside its design envelope a few times and haven't been bitten. It's been great fun. Go on, give it a go, you know you want to!
Back to the job, realised I hadn't shown the completed eccentrics. See pic.
When assembling the crankshaft I found that I'd allowed a bit too much for clearance. Tightening the pinch bolts failed to grip the shafts sufficiently causing slipping. So I made new shafts 4.98 mm and ditched the old ones. Also I'd left the counter bores to inset the cap screws flush with the webs until I actually received the new screws. This was silly and required a lot of work to line up only to find a drill wouldn't touch them. The area appears to have work hardened during the milling process. I eventually cut the holes with a small end mill. If I were staring this build again I would buy metric taps and dies and use metric fasteners. The cost would be cancelled out by buying metric fasteners rather than, as I chose to do, fork out for horrendously expensive BA gear.
Anyway I built up both crankshafts allowing 3 thou end float to avoid any binding when things get hot. The grub screws in the eccentrics are too long and will be replaced later. Everything turns freely with no slop so I'm chuffed.
Have made a start on making the blocks for the cross heads.
Jerry.
-
Hi Jerry, looking brilliant, nice work, I may tackle one myself now the new machine is up and running, casting sets are quite expensive, so it looks like a good way to go. I have just made a winch for AQ, which is nearly finished, so will soon be looking for something to do.......
-
Made three blocks for cross heads out of round bar, (need four but not enough stock). Drilled and reamed two 4mm and one 6BA tapping hole through length of block. Used coordinates to find centres. Repeated on second block. Repositioned in milling vice and drilled 6BA tapping hole for gudgeon pin. Will open out one side to 4mm after shaping. Repeated on second block. Put both blocks side by side in milling vice and removed surplus material. Repositioned and removed second batch. Repositioned one piece and milled the gudgeon pin claws. (Made that name up)! Just got the other one to finish then a bit of tidying up before final dressing.
The man says these parts are the most difficult on the engine. It's taken me all day to get this far.
Jerry.
-
Finished machining the second crosshead. Tufted up with the file and dressed them up. The man put radiused the blocks around the holes but I couldn't see a way to get a really neat job so left them plain. Rearranged the lathe for turning and made four cylinder top covers. Each requires three bolt holes so my thoughts turned to the rotary table. It turns out it just fits on the milling attachment table using two bolts and T nuts off the milling vice. I mounted it slightly diagonally using one T nut in each slot. So now I need a small 3 jaw chuck about 50 mm and I'll have to make up a centering adapter so I can fix it centrally on the table similarly to George's method.
Jerry.
-
Jerry, are you psychic? I was about to ask how you got on with Rotary table, and were you happy with it etc, I come to the computer and there it is......
-
Nick, I've ordered a 50 mm three jaw chuck from RDG and hope to modify it in a similar fashion to George. It's fitted with a 10 mm shaft which I hope to turn down to locate in the centre hole of the rotating table.
Yesterday I made a start on the bottom cylinder cover/glands. The man says to make the gland screw first omitting the 3 mm hole. Then make the cover and female thread. Before parting off assemble with the screw then drill the hole through both parts to ensure concentricity. It seems to work. I have a load of stainless 3 mm rods scavenged from old hard drives. They fit smoothly though one was a bit tight until I realised I'd not deburred properly. There may be a short break in reporting. Youngest daughter was married last Saturday so one baby out and new baby in. Am sitting awaiting delivery of Royal Enfield 500 EFI. It's due in half an hour. True to form am in the middle of a massive thunder storm.
Jerry.
-
My 4 inch one came with a chuck adapter, threaded fo the Myford spindle, but I have not tried it out yet. RDG are an excellent company, great value, and everything I have ordered has arrived the next day. The Royal Enfield you are waiting for, is it an original or one of the Indian ones, I believe they are a very good bike, and now comply with current emission regulations. The one I saw even had an electric start. Your engine is coming along nicely, you will soon have it up and running, nice work. I like the idea of salvaging stainless rod out of old HDD's, I have a few kicking about so I will investigate.....
-
The new baby has arrived. Put 95 miles on her. Did the snowdonia circuit and didn't have to push her up Pen Y Pas! Luxury!
Jerry.
-
Nice bike, where are you going to put your boat?
-
The last few says I have mostly been motorcycling and training for TDM but managed to do a bit of modifying for the rotary table. I bought a 50 mm 3 jaw chuck which came with an adaptor threaded 14 mm x 1 mm with a 10 mm threaded spindle. I cropped the spindle an turned a 5 mm spigot on the end to locate in the table centre. Then I milled cuts on the fixed part of the chuck to accept hold downs. I made four extended thread T nuts. 4 into three doesn't leave much room near two of the jaws and at the moment grip is tenuous but when I get some 1" angle iron I will make a better job of it. It gets it done, though if I was only making one part it's quicker to use coordinates but I've got loads to do and with this set up its a doddle.
Jerry.
-
The last week has been a bummer. The 3mm rods out of hard drives are as the name suggests HARD. A few were ok but work hardened with every operation. Cutting the 8 & 6 BA threads was a lottery. Then I left the window open and it rained in and soaked my digital callipers. Stripped them down and attempted a fix but no good. However my digital depth gauge had gone bush a while ago so s or bust had a go at them with success.
Back to the piston rods. I had to anneal the rods after every operation and finally got them done. Then a strange thing happened. While looking for the drawing for the piston I spotted a drawing for the piston rods showing them at 60mm long and I was sure they were 50mm. So bad words, kick the dog and sling them in the waste bin. Sourced some more rods, knocked the drawings on the deck, recovered them and found another drawing saying they were meant to be 50mm as I thought. Turns out the 60 figure was to allow for mods later. Spent 10 minutes searching the bin, cutting finger tips several times, (blood is an essential part of the annealing process). Managed with micrometer until new callipers arrived.
Next I made the pistons. Only trick here is to make them oversize in diameter and length. Then mount onto piston rod and then turn down to size, cut the ring groove. This ensures they are concentric with the rods, and it's job done.
Next it's the pillars and the block plate. Then I'm going to have to bite the bullet and buy some brass for the cylinder blocks.
Jerry.
-
I've had a lot on since the last post but managed a bit more over the last 3 days. First, the columns/pillars. Had some 6mm round stainless so this was the size. Faced off one end, centre drilled, tapping drill for 6BA followed by taper tap and finally plug tap. Cut a countersink in way of thread to avoid threads pulling up and allowing ends to lie flat on plates increasing stiffness. Moved piece out of the chuck and supported end on tailstock centre before parting off to length. My top plate is thicker than the 2mm specified so shortened the pillars to compensate. Reversed piece in chuck and threaded end. Repeat 7 times.
Next cut 2 blanks out of 3mm aluminium plate for top plates. Marked up and spotted centre. Place both plates In milling vice, found centre then again, same as baseplate, used the machine to find centres and drilled all holes. The clearance holes for bottom plates/glands I used a step drill. Went through like a knife through butter. Does a great job.
Bolted both top plates together and removed unnecessary material in milling attachment before removing all toolmarks on dressing plate.
Made 2 sets of little end (gudgeon/wrist) pins. Not sure what they are called in this context. Just got to cut some screwdriver slots in the ends with the slitting saw. All that remains in this section is crosshead guide rods(8) and conrods(4) then it's onwards and upwards to cylinders and valve gear. Going to have to throw some money at them I'm sad to say.
Jerry.
-
Looking good Jerry :-)) You make it sound so easy!
Greg
-
Thanks Greg, the more I practice the easier it gets. Drilling the holes is a matter of converting from metric to imperial, working from the two datum lines(in this case centres), approach each hole in same direction to eliminate backlash problems and making notes for a drilling plan and NO interruptions. Lovein' it!
Jerry.
-
Morning Jerry......progress is very good :-)) ....just one question....what are the burnished bands on each of the engine columns/pillars?......
Glad the step drill provided good results......I have mixed results with the same when drilling in a drill press .....Derek
-
Good arfo Derek, burnishing on pillars is old Navy trick for tarting up steel handrails for Captains Rounds. Rubbed them with emery cloth axially then put in lathe chuck and put the bands on with a narrow strip of cloth. Just for fun really, all will be painted before it all goes in a boat. Too hard to keep clean otherwise.
Jerry.
-
O0...yes even as a civilian...we were required to instruct & supervise dissimilar tart-up work on missile launchers & gun mounts for the 'Snow Flake" [Admirals] inspections :P ....Derek
-
Today I started making the crosshead guide rods. I had no 4mm stainless stock so had to turn some larger stock down to 4mm. Started by centre drilling, tapping drill , taper tap and plug tap for 8 BA thread in one end of stock. Next I turned a 39mm length down to 4mm. Not successful. Although the chuck and tailstock centres are true I ended up with one end 2 thou undersize. This stainless steel is hard working and I suspect that the rod is springing a bit at the tailstock end. Then while cleaning out the thread by hand, as I tightened up the tap wrench with the tap in the piece I stupidly held the piece and broke the tap off inside the hole. Doh!! So back up to my friendly factory in Llanberis to try and bum some 4mm scrap. I thought I would take one of the engines to show the lads what their generosity was helping to make. They were generous in their praise also and while they had no scap rods they were as it just so happened doing a production run of some parts in 4mm and let me have a dozen pieces. Result!! all I had to do was cut them to length and thread one end. Motto of Wolverhampton Borough Council- "Out of Darkness Cometh Light".
Tomorrow the conrods.
Jerry.
-
Looking good Jerry, Here is a picture of mine underway, got as far as baseplate and mains, just building crankshaft....
(http://s19.postimg.org/7wy0a2tcj/Job_Done.jpg)
-
Hi Nick, can't see that base flexing, split mains too? What is it going to be?
Jerry.
-
Hi Jerry, look here and all will be revealed...... http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php?topic=3969.0
-
Today was conrod day. Out of a scrap ballcock arm I made four round blanks. Put them in turn into the milling attachment and squared them off to 6.5mm square. Rearranged the mill put one piece in, found the end edge and centre, moved the mill 3.5 mm, drilled and reamed the 4mm big end. Moved the mill 28.5mm and drilled and reamed the 4mm little end. Shipped a 1/4 end mill and milled away 1.25 mm from little end. Rotated the piece and milled 1.25mm off other side. Repeated three more times. Finally, shipped the 4 jaw chuck, put a big end in it and turned the middle down until it looked right. Tidied up with emery tape and finished off the other three. Should have some uppy downy movement tomorrow.
Jerry.
-
Very nice, are you going to split the big ends?
-
No Nick, not necessary, the journal slides through the crank webs and the big end. However will tidy up little ends, they look a bit rough in these pics.
Jerry
-
Up and downie bits!! A slight tight spot but eased after spinning with hand drill.
Jerry.
-
Excellent reciprocating form, lookin good, at this rate you will have it in a boat before summers out...... :-)) :-)) :-))
-
Excellent reciprocating form, lookin good, at this rate you will have it in a boat before summers out...... :-)) :-)) :-))
... you'd better get on with building the boat then Jerry! {-) {-)
-
One thing at a time boys. I can't multi task, or I explode! However I'm always keeping a weather eye out for a suitable 4'-5' GRP launch hull.
Jerry.
-
I can recommend Kingston Moldings, excellent quality at reasonable cost.... http://www.kingstonmouldings.co.uk/home.htm
-
Or possibly the steam picket hull from Models by Design http://www.modelsbydesign.co.uk/model_boats.aspx (http://www.modelsbydesign.co.uk/model_boats.aspx)? 50" long and although it is intended as a closed hull I'm sure your fertile mind and skilled hands can create a lovely launch (I am assuming you want to keep the steam plant in sight - I certainly would if I'd built what you are building! :-) )
Greg
-
Greg, that's about right. Any ideas on max prop size for this one, bigger the better.
Jerry.
-
Jerry...going back a few weeks ;) .......
1. you have one crank eccentric in brass/bronze & one crank eccentric in iron/steel......
2. will you use alternate composite materials for each respective eccentric band?
Derek
-
Well spotted Derek, and good question. One engine has brass eccentrics tother has stainless steel. At the time of turning them the intention was to make all from stainless but one piece of scrap grabbed in haste from donors bin was different from the rest in that it had a hidden hole between the forks and so was unusable. I thought I could put a brass strap on the stainless and a duralumin strap on the brass (as on tvr1a, which after three years shows no wear). What I had not realised was that the rod on the eccentric arm is soldered into the strap. I suppose I could weld a brass tube into duralumin (HP30) using what we call over here "Lumiweld" but doubt it would be possible on such a small scale. Technique is to mechanically clean both parts, assemble, heat until it will melt rod, run a puddle which seals off oxygen then scratch under the puddle with stainless steel scratcher lifting remaining oxides off pieces which float to the surface as dross then allowing to cool. All in all I'd be better off making two more out of stainless. Thing is there's no load on the valve piston to speak of so will probably get away with brass on brass. What do you think? Sorry, for my strap read your band.
Jerry.
-
Well spotted Derek, and good question. One engine has brass eccentrics tother has stainless steel. At the time of turning them the intention was to make all from stainless but one piece of scrap grabbed in haste from donors bin was different from the rest in that it had a hidden hole between the forks and so was unusable. I thought I could put a brass strap on the stainless and a duralumin strap on the brass (as on tvr1a, which after three years shows no wear). What I had not realised was that the rod on the eccentric arm is soldered into the strap. I suppose I could weld a brass tube into duralumin (HP30) using what we call over here "Lumiweld" but doubt it would be possible on such a small scale. Technique is to mechanically clean both parts, assemble, heat until it will melt rod, run a puddle which seals off oxygen then scratch under the puddle with stainless steel scratcher lifting remaining oxides off pieces which float to the surface as dross then allowing to cool. All in all I'd be better off making two more out of stainless. Thing is there's no load on the valve piston to speak of so will probably get away with brass on brass. What do you think? Sorry, for my strap read your band.
Jerry.
Jeery,
I wouldn't worry about brass on brass, there will be enough water and oil sloshing about to lubricate the eccentric and the sheave, if not a spot of oil now and again.
I read many reports of Brass on Brass binding, over the years I have made many engines and pumps, some have had Brass cylinders with Brass pistons fitted with Silicone "O" rings, some with eccentric and sheaves from Brass all made from whatever stock material that I have on hand and to date never had reports of any problems, remember it's toy engines that we build, not full size.
It seams a lot of trouble to weld/solder or what ever but of course it's up to you
George.
-
mmmmmmm...just thinking Jerry ok2
Would not the simplest correction be to manufacture a [second] replacement eccentric in the nominated material as originally specified by John Moore [Bogs]?
Naturally I stand corrected......band = strap = sheave as noted by George.........
Derek
-
Hi George, long time no hear. Just completed the Tour de Môn Canol = 75 miles of nothing but climb after climb after climb. I finished but the last 15 miles was just about survival really. Despite copious drafts of lucozade original mixed with dyalorite salts and jelly babies, cramps in thighs occurred from 60 on. Did manage the Flying mile in 2' 7" with 21 knot following wind knocking 33" off last year. It's the last year of team JCB cos the others are much better than me. Next year I'll just do the Bach but do it justice.
Brass on brass it is then. Just awaiting some stock to do the cylinder blocks and I'm back on track.
Jerry.
-
Postie's been. At last some big brass. I put a piece in the four jaw chuck, (too big for three jaw). With lathe on minimum speed used hacksaw to cut blanks. Faced off one end, turned piece round and trimmed to length. Pieces were too large to be gripped in the milling vice so put it in vertically. Milled what I could reach until face was a little over 32mm. Now by putting the milled face against the vice bed it could be gripped securely. I managed to mill the opposite face in one go right at the limits of the travel. Turned the piece and removed the lug before finally milling to 18mm thick. Will do the other sides tomorrow after the Grand Prix.
Jerry.
-
I completed both blanks, dressed them up on the glass plate then put the first one in the mill and using the wheels to measure, found the centre then drilled and tapped all the 8BA holes on the bottom then drilled the cylinder bores in stages to 10mm. Turned the part round and drilled and tapped the holes for the top covers.
The Memsahib had a plastic rolling pin that was no use because it was bent so used one end to make a hone. Applied grinding paste to the hone and with lathe on slowest speed honed the bores until smooth. Gave all a good clean and then did the other block the same.
Next job is to lap each piston until they just fit their respective bores.
Jerry. P
-
Going well Jerry, any reason for forming the cylinder blocks from the round? There is plenty of flats about that would have done the job.......
-
I couldn't find any anywhere. Anyway I like swarf, it's like sawdust and I make a lot of that too. Pity we don't have a hamster anymore. I also, it would seem, like the word any!!
Jerry.
-
Here is a good supplier of metal, 3" x 3" x 1", £12.50.... https://maccmodels.co.uk/materials-metal/brass-sections/brass-square/imperial-brass-squares.html
-
Thanks Nick, I saw that but very high price. I needed 1 1/2" diameter. I paid £23 for two 6" lengths
of 1 1/2" round so not so bad. Enough for four engines. It just goes against the grain to pay but my source of free stuff just didn't have any at the time I needed it.
Jerry.
-
Going well Jerry, any reason for forming the cylinder blocks from the round? There is plenty of flats about that would have done the job.......
Nick,
He just likes making bedding for brass monkeys.
George
-
Sorry guys, the project has been put on the back burner over the last few weeks. We have been all over Cheshire looking for a suitable marina to keep our major project/dream. We have long had a dream to spend our retirement cruising the canals and rivers during the spring and summer on a live-aboard narrowboat. We bought a 57' 2 year old boat on the river Nene at Rinstead. My nephew Ben and I had a superb delivery trip coming up the Nene to Northampton where we joined the Grand Union Canal. Up to Birmingham and onto the Birmingham main line then onto the Shropshire Union Canal to Tattenhall Marina, near Chester, where she will over winter while I get her ready for her new life. She is called "Angelica". We did 160 miles and around 180 locks in 9 days, working 11 hours a day. I hope to return to the Bogstandards soon.
Jerry.
-
Angelica looks lovely Jerry. Many happy hours of pub-crawling - er, sorry, cruising! ahead of you. {-)
Looking forward to the next instalment on the engine build. Have you settled on a hull for the engine yet?
Greg
-
I haven't found the right hull yet. Everything I've seen is too narrow gutted for my plant.
I've done a bit more work on the engines. When I made the crossheads for the first engine I only had enough stock to make one blank for the second engine. I also made a Horlicks of one of the conrods. I've now finished all the crossheads and made another blank for the duff conrod, I spent all of this morning on it only to make a really stupid mistake by drilling the first 4mm hole in the wrong position. Instead of using half the diameter of my edge finder I used the diameter so there was not enough meat left in the blank to drill the little end. Doh!! So it's in the scrap bucket. I'm too tied up with the narrow boat I think. I've assembled the engine with the original duff rod (it's only a cosmetic fault so won't hold me up. Both engines are at the same stage now so it's on to the valve chests next.
I've got to go to the marina tomorrow to do an oil and filter change on the engine, change the fuel filters, replace all the plastic a/c sockets and switches for chrome ones, fit a Victron battery monitor and a TV antenna and weather station and a few odds and sods. Last time down I changed the engine anti freeze and the central heating Fernox anti freeze and inhibiter. So when that's all done we'll take her for a short trip as the wife's dying to take her out.
Jerry.
-
Back in the workshop at last after doing a lot of work on Angelica. Started on the steam chests today. I had no suitable stock so a quick trip up to Llanberis to my favourite machine shop produced a foot length of scrap 30mm brass round bar. Wish they had square stuff but beggars can't be choosers. Cut four 45mm lengths off it with a hacksaw then faced off each end to make four 40mm lengths. I used the carriage stop to make all exactly the same length. Tomorrow will set up the milling attachment and mill all to 40x18x16 mm blanks. I realised when re-reading the instructions that my 6mm hand reamer will not be of any use as I need a machine reamer to ream the 6mm blind hole. Ordered one from Tracy Tools which should be here tomorrow. Then lots of drilling.
Jerry.
-
Yesterday I faced off on end of each piece in the three jaw chuck. Then I reversed the pieces and faced off the other ends to 40mm length. Remove the three jaw chuck and mounted the large Jacobs chuck loaded with my largest milling tool. Set up the milling attachment and milled one side of each piece until I had a face 19 mm wide then rotated each piece in the vice keeping the same side on the fixed jaw and milled the other side of each piece until down to 16mm thickness. Remounted in the vice and milled curved side until I hade a 16mm side. Rotated each piece and milled other side to 18mm. So now I have 4four blanks 40x19x16 mm blanks. This took most of the day.
Jerry.
-
Today I started drilling. First operation is to drill the main 6mm passage up through the centre of each blank to a depth of 36mm from the datum face. I used an old, broken 1/4" mill shank to find the edge of a piece then advanced the mill 1/8" so NW the chuck axis is in line with the edge of the piece. I then advanced the mill 9mm to find the centre of the width. Repeated the operation to get the centre of the 8mm height. Used a 1/8" centre drill to start the hole then worked up with stub drills to 5.5 mm before finishing off the hole with a No. 1 drill to 36mm depth. After drilling the rest of the holes in the piece will finally use a 6mm machine reamer to 36mm.
Next I drilled the holes for the steam unions. I again found the edge of the datum face as before then found the centre of the union face before advancing the mill from the datum face to the position of each hole drilling and tapping as I worked my way along the face.
Tomorrow will complete the holes on the cylinder face, 2 steam holes and 4 bolt holes finishing by milling the steam slots. The reamer I ordered arrived this morning. They quoted me £13 but I forget the VAT every time so winced when with postage and vat it was £20. It looks a nice bit of kit though.
Jerry.
-
Just love the way you mix mm and inches (and drill numbers)! %% How do you advance 1/8" then advance 9mm, presumably using the same scale? Please don't do a NASA on us and get confused about which you are using - apparently you can lose a very expensive spacecraft with such a simple error %)
Greg
-
Can do that one in my head. 1/8" =0.125 9mm = 0.357 less a midges. I just use my digital calipers. The metric/imperial button does all the hard work. My only problem is I can (see) imperial whereas metric is just numbers in my head.
Jerry.
-
Since the last post I have completed the valve chests. I put each blank in the milling vice and as usual used the graduated wheels to navigate from hole to hole changing the drill size as appropriate. After drilling the last hole in the first blank I slackened the vice and removed the piece but left it on the drill. I put the next blank in the vice then adjusted the slide until the new block lined up with the first. This speeds things up a lot, saving me from having to "find" the edge of the datum face. I drilled all the holes in the second blank then repeated the change over trick. Repeated until all four blanks drilled.
Next I milled the steam slots as required. Finally I did the cosmetic milling on the top of each blank in way of the top union faces and then ran the machine reamer through the main 6mm spool chamber.
I superglued each chest onto the cylinder blocks then spotted through to transfer the centres of the bolt holes to the cylinder blocks. Then I drilled and tapped the bolt holes in the cylinders for 6BA.
The next bit takes a bit of explaining. Before making the valve spools it's imperative to know the exact distance between the top of the top steam port and the bottom of the bottom steam ports in each chest. I expected them all to be the same but as you will see, inaccuracies crept in.
The instruction say to put a good fitting 3mm rod through each port and to measure the maximum distance on each side of the chest. Taking the average of the two values gives the correct value inside the main 6mm hole. As the table in the pic shows they were all a little different. So each spool will have to have slightly different sizes to compensate. One size will not fit all!
Tomorrow will start on the spools.
Jerry.
-
Hi Jerry,
Your doing a geat job with that engine especially since you have limited facilities.
If I may advise you... it will pay you to lap the bores for the valves to get rid of any machining marks... this can be done using a length of nylon rod or even dowel rod turned down to a close fit in the machined bores... coat lightly with metal polish (Brasso or some such) and work it up and down the bores to produce a smooth even finish over the whole length of the bore.
Make the piston valves (spool valves) slightly tight in the lapped bores and then lap them in using the same metal polish... this will give you the best possible steam seal.
The slight differences in spool length will not prove to be much of an issue and the 19.1mm length will be fine... more important is the width of each spool... these must not be less than the port dia... a couple of thousandths greater would be perfect.
Take your time with these and all will be well.
PS... It was me who designed the valve gear for John's engine.
I look forward to seeing it running.
Best regard.
Sandy. :-))
-
Thanks for that Sandy. Your post came in just after I'd finished them. I used some scrap 6 mm ground stainless steel to make them out of. It was a perfect sliding fit in the bores. I'd already lapped the bores but forgot to mention it in the post. I've got a faulty nylon rolling pin and made a lap out of that. I think I mentioned it when I lapped the cylinders.
I've made a start on the packing glands. All same piston rods but used some 8mm A/F hex to make the gland adjuster. Can't think why I didn't use it for the piston rods. Making the spools was easier than writing about it. I made each one to the measured length of each chest. They are lovely sliding fit and cover the holes perfectly.
Jerry.
-
That's the glands finished. A little adjustment required according to the pic. Cover plates to do but what about plugging the steam holes instead, after setting the timing? Any thoughts?
Jerry.
-
Hi Jerry,
They look fine... well done.
I would be inclined not to just plug the holes... make the covers O0 .
Plugging would make any future valve timing adjustment extremely tricky, especially with a blind valve bore.
I suppose you could tap the holes on the outside and fit blanking screws but I think proper covers would look much more professional and probably would not take much longer to make than proper blanking screws.
Nearly there.
Keep happy.
Sandy. :-))
-
Thanks Sandy, will take your advice and make some cover plates.
On Monday I started on the eccentric straps. I only had 30mm brass round to make them out of so parted off 8 off 6mm discs then made a spacer to set them square in the three jaw chuck before facing them off to 4mm thick. Shipped the milling attachment and milled a set of blanks. Using my angle plate as a guide I lapped the mating surfaces on the lapping plate. Next I drilled and tapped the clamping bolt holes in the upper blanks 8BA. Then I drilled the clearance holes in the lower blanks. De-burred the holes and bolted each set together. Lapped all the sides and edges until all sets the same size.
Set up one set in the mill and drilled the 14mm hole with a metric Aldi step drill. It does a lovely job leaving a very fine surface. Leaving the set in the milling vise, I rotated the mill through 90° and drilled the 3mm x4mm deep con rod hole then raised the vise and drilled the double diameter oiling hole. Repeated the process on the remaining three sets.
Finally I clamped my 45° gauge to the sanding station as a guide and free cut the cosmetic chamfers on the shoulders. A quick lap to remove any tool marks and this section was complete.
I found making these eccentric straps the most taxing job so far. It took me 4 days to make them.
Jerry.
-
Today I started on the eccentric strap top joints. The instructions say make from square stock. Because it takes so long to square up round stock I decided to make them from hex bar. I turned down a length of hex bar to a 7mm for a length sufficient to make four pieces including parting off. I left the hex end on to act as a register for the holes and to get a good grip in the milling vise jaws. Then I centre drilled 1st hole, drilled the 8BA tapping hole then the 3mm hole and finally tapped the 8BA hole. Repeated for four holes. Then I milled a flat along the bar over the 8BA holes for the lock nuts to seat on (this also aids in locating the pieces in the mill vise prior to milling the 4mm slots. Shipped the three jaw chuck and faced and parted off all pieces to 11mm length, drilling and tapping the 8BA axial holes as I went. Loaded two pieces in the mill and, using a 4mm mill bit, milled the slots. Not quite central but near enough. Made fine adjustment to mill then milled the slots in the second pair. These were better. De-burred then started on the other part of top joints. I found two pieces of scrap 6mm square from a failed conrod and milled them down to 4x6mm section. Drilled 4 off 3mm holes then using a junior hacksaw cut four pieces a little over length. Put all four pieces on a 3mm rod, loaded them in the mill vise and milled to length. Just got to drill the 3mm holes for the conrods and I'll be ready to solder them all together. Will box them off tomorrow.
Jerry.
-
I wasn't satisfied with the joints I made. Not enough meat in the sides. I thought 1mm was a bit thin so increased it to 1.5mm. I was a bit off centre so scrapped them and remade them as per instructions but increased the thickness of the sides to 2mm. Can reduce them later if needed. Made an 11 x 8mm bar, drilled all the holes, milled the 4mm channel then cut the parts off with the slitsaw. Made another bar 6 x10mm drilled the holes and sliced off 4 pieces 4mm thick for the top part of the straps. Silver soldered top to bottom with 18mm rod. Turned the swivel pins out of 3mm stainless and tapped the end 8BA. Cut the heads off 4 off 6BA bolts to join top joint to the spool valve. These will be silver soldered into the top joint later. Didn't want to do it right away as drawings don't show the length and so wanted to install one strap to make sure I've got enough threads for required adjustment first.
Next job is steam unions , pipework and control valve.
Jerry.
-
This week I've been making the steam union and flanges. Had no suitable stock so up to the lake on the bum again. Got two lengths of 12.7mm stainless steel round. I just followed the instructions, quite straightforward but a lot of work. It was very fiddly loading pieces into the milling vice as it's vertical on mine and a socket headed cap screw gets in the way of the two 2mm drills I used as guides. The only problems I had and here I deviated from the instructions, were that when I drilled the first 4mm hole in the union the drill protested loudly and. Required a lot of force to do the hole. Fearing the pieces would jump out of the vise I replaced the drill bit with a 4mm milling cutter. This cut easily and cleanly and the pipes fit nicely. The other problem was when drilling the last 2.8mm hole through the body of one union the drill wandered too close to the edge causing a hairline split in the side. I crimped it closed with forceps and will fix it when I silver solder the copper steam pipes into the unions and flanges.
It's taken me 3 1/2 days to do all these including the 4 extra flanges I made because I didn't read far enough ahead in the instruction and mistakenly thought the pipes were all bolted to the control valve. Twonk!!
With all this work I would hate to make a Horlicks of the next stage. The silver soldering. Up to now I've never had any problems soldering but I've never soldered stainless before. I did some research and all I can find is that everyone says I can solder it but need acid based flux. I have silver glo 55 solder and easyflo flux. Question, will these do the job? If anyone has used these two items to solder stainless to copper and brass can they post and let me know if suitable. If not what should I use?
The pictures tell the story.
Jerry.
-
One more.
Jerry.
-
JERRY
Here is a link to Silver soldering Stainless steel in Model Engineering , it makes interesting reading.
http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=54973 (http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=54973)
I have some ( TENACITY ) flux which although I have never used it I am told that it is specifically for Stainless Steel.
I have a small amount about 3 large table spoonfuls which you can have if you wish as I don't envisage me soldering Stainless Steel.
You mix it with water into a paste as per Essy-Flow.
If you go to Amazon they sell it but it's very expensive, as does Johnson and Matthey.
So if you wish to try this TENACITY let me know and I will post it to you.
George.
-
George, once more to the rescue, thankyou. I'll take you up on your kind offer. From what I've read it's probably the way to go. Don't rush cos I've got the control valve to make first. Have a good Christmas and a healthy and happy new year.
Kind regards,
Jerry.
-
Today spent making two control valve blanks. Turned two 10mm thick discs from 40mm brass round bar. They're too big to fit in the 3 jaw chuck so roughly centred in 4 jaw with parallel used keep pieces square and proud of the jaws so the tool could reach. Remembered to slide the parallel out before switching on!! Then switched to the milling attachment to square the pieces off to 25mm.
Jerry.
-
9000 odd views and almost no comments. We are obviously all struck speechless by your narrative Jerry O0 :-)) :-))
Can't wait to see all the little bits come together and start moving in rapid unison, purring away in a mist of steam and oil. You're doing a great job!
Merry Christmas!
Greg
-
Aw! Thanks Greg. Really enjoying myself. Merry Christmas and a happy new year to you too.
Jerry.
-
Thanks George, flux received next day. Will do a test and also one with easy flow to compare.
Jerry.
-
9000 odd views and almost no comments. We are obviously all struck speechless by your narrative Jerry O0 :-)) :-))
Can't wait to see all the little bits come together and start moving in rapid unison, purring away in a mist of steam and oil. You're doing a great job!
Merry Christmas!
Greg
Spot on there Greg - Seriously I served a 4 year apprenticeship (many years ago when the EITB was still around) as a tool maker. Jerry your work is amazing especially with the limited machine that you use. I have loved reading this thread just brilliant engineering :)
-
Hi Mark, high praise indeed. Thankyou. I'm just an enthusiastic amateur I'm afraid. My dad served his time at Henry Meadows, Wolverhampton as an engineer. We lived in Wednesfield until I went away to school for pre-sea training for a career as a deck officer in the Merchant Navy. Where in the W. Midlands are you from?
Jerry.
-
I live in Dudley Jerry so right on your old doorstep so to speak. I wasn't born here though I'm a Londoner that moved here 24 years ago. I served my apprenticeship at Tunnel Refineries in Greenwich who made sure that I could use most machines well. Ironically I left there and never used a machine again! I do miss the precision of the work though. I remember having to make my own Vee blocks, parallels and sine bars as at the time they were far to expensive to buy.
-
Right, that's Christmas over and done with so back to work. Today did all the drilling on the control valve blanks. Both blanks were near enough the same and very close to the specified dimensions. I loaded the first blank into the milling vice and set up a stop using a clamp. Found the centre of the face and nipped up the gibs to prevent any movement of the jaws. Centre drilled then drilled the first hole to a depth of 8mm. Slacked off the jaws and rotated the piece through 90° against the stop and drilled the second hole the same. Continued rotating the piece until all four holes were drilled. Keeping the gib tight on the vertical slide I eased the gib on the cross slide and moved the cross slide the required amount to centre for the first of the second set of holes. Drilled the hole until it met up with the hole previously drilled. Rotated the piece through 180° and repeated the process on the other side. Flipped the piece over and completed the third hole before rotating 180° again and completing the second set of holes. For the third set of holes I centred the face on the first hole then move the cross slide out 4mm to drill and tap the first 8BA flange securing hole to a depth of 6mm. Flipped the piece and drilled and tapped the second hole. Rotated the piece 180° and repeated the process. Then the same on the second blank. Hardly any measuring and setting up required.
Put the piece In the vice vertically. Lowered the mill vice to find the centre of the square face the offset the vertical and cross slide to centre for the first cover screw hole. Drilled it 2.5 mm right through the piece. Rotated the piece in the jaws against the stop and drilled second hole. Continued rotating and drilling until all four holes drilled. Repeated on second block. Then back to the centre and drille the final hole using increasing sized drills to 9.5mm. Repeated on second block.
Re-rigged the lathe for boring and st up the first piece in the 4 jaw chuck and bored the big hole to 10mm. Same on second piece.
Cut the 5/32" copper pipe to the required lengths. So now in ready to clean all the bits, flux them and set up on the cylinder block (as a jig) and diver solder all together.
Jerry.
-
I made 22 silver solder rings by winding the wire tightly around a piece of 3mm rod, keeping the coils tight and running a flame over them until they relaxed and set. Removed the rod and cut the rings off with side cutter. I had two flanges left over and cut two lengths of copper pipe to test easyflo flux against tenacity flux. I boiled all the pieces in detergent, rinsed them, cleaned them with wire wool, applied easy flo to one pair and tenacity to the other pair and put a ring on each pipe by the joints. Heated them up with my small torch. Fluxes behaved as they should, drying out then turning to clear liquid just before the flange turned dull red. The rings melted as the red got brighter and flowed when flange and pipe turned orange. Both fluxes gave the same result, perfect joints with full penetration and a small, neat fillet. So, on small parts at least, easy flow solders copper to stainless steel. Will keep the tenacity flux for something bigger requiring a lot more heat maybe. Set up all the unions and flanges with rings and easyflo flux and soldered the lot in a couple of minutes. Will set up on the cylinders next to solder to the control valve block next.
Jerry.
-
Hi Jerry,
Thanks for that, it would be interesting if you would do a test piece with 2- pieces of St/St of a reason able size to see the results of St/St to St/St.
Best wishes for the New Year
George.
-
Yes George I'll give it a try. I spent this morning shortening 24 off 8BA bolts to secure the unions to the valve blocks and the flanges to the control valve blocks. To shorten a bolt I first screw on a nut just past where I need to cut then cut the end off with side cutters. Holding the head with pliers I trim the cut end on the sanding station. Taking the nut off tidies the thread. Finish off with a few strokes with a fine file at 45° finishes the end. I cleaned all the soldering areas with wire wool and fluxed them before assembling everything and bolting it to the cylinder assembly. This took ages and was very fiddly. Even with my nice new quality spanners I can only turn the bolts one flat at a time. The steam inlet and exhaust flanges with pipes need to go on the block first as it would be impossible to bolt them on after soldering as I can't get a spanner on them. When all secured I centred the block on the pipes and soldered all the joints. If I was doing this again, instead of fitting flanges, I would soft solder the steam inlet and exhaust pipes into the block. If the flanges leak steam I'll have to run some soft solder in anyway as I can't unbolt them to put in a joint. The whole unit now has to be removed and cleaned up before running a drill down inside the unions to break through the copper pipe. Then I've got to make the front and back covers and the spool. The spool needs to be ground into the block with metal polish before final assembly.
Jerry.
-
Jerry,
A small tip for getting into tight places with a spanner.
You can make your own by using Hex head socket cap screws , make them as per sketch and you can build them up until you have a complete set, they are great for getting into tight spaces like the bolts on your control valve,
The cap screws although H.T.S. are easily machinable so search thro' your bolt collection and see if you have any suitable.
George.
-
I dismantled the control valve body, pipes and unions soldered previously ready for drilling through the copper pipe in the unions. Aware of the possibility of breaking the drill on breakthrough I started on a union not soldered to the block. On breakthrough I promptly broke the tip off the drill. I'd forgotten the milk for lubricant. Fortunately enough of the tip had penetrated through the tube so that by pushing a small ball ended Allen key up the pipe it freed the tip allowing me to remove it by tapping the union flange on the surface plate which dislodged the tip and I removed it easily. Knowing I wouldn't get a second chance I used my dremel which has more feel to it than my hand drill. A brand new dremel bit in the extention flexible drive finished all the drillings with the assistance of milk. Every task I've set the dremel has been perfect. I love it. I've said before that I've had quite a few copies but thy e all been useless. With hindsight I would drill all the pipes before soldering them into the blocks as if done like this a drill can be run up the pipe to clear the burr in the pipe. Will have to make a thin hooked tool to clear the burrs in the unions soldered into the block. I also soldered the small crack in the union that cracked by drilling a bit off centre. All sorted now, first assembly pickling now. Will solder the other assembly tomorrow.
Jerry.
-
Great idea George, will look into it. I have a very good quality BA socket set but too bulky to use in this situation. Even your method won't work. The bolts are 8BA with 10BA heads. The heads are overhung by the pipe union so a box spanner, no matter how slender, won't go on. My best open ender fits and will just turn one flat. It just takes ages with freezing cold hands and poor eyesight. I'm getting better at it though. Your post just slipped in before mine. We must have pressed post simultaneously.
Jerry.
-
I have used box spanners made from allen screws, mine were just drilled through the screw thread and a bar put through, then a flat hammered each end to stop it falling out.
Grendel
-
Great idea George, will look into it. I have a very good quality BA socket set but too bulky to use in this situation. Even your method won't work. The bolts are 8BA with 10BA heads. The heads are overhung by the pipe union so a box spanner, no matter how slender, won't go on. My best open ender fits and will just turn one flat. It just takes ages with freezing cold hands and poor eyesight. I'm getting better at it though. Your post just slipped in before mine. We must have pressed post simultaneously.
Jerry.
Hi Jerry,
Happy New Year.
Looks like your almost there and looking good. :-))
Now you know why John used socket head screws for these connections... they can be easily done up using a ball end allen key.
But I think hex head screws look more in keeping with a steam engine.
Keep happy.
Sandy. :}
-
I've been playing hooky on our narrowboat "Angelica". Finishing off all the work she needed. Back in the workshop today.
I finished off turning the front and rear covers for the control block. Really just a case of following the instructions from the man. Just got to mill the flats on the spools and finally make the operating levers and the control block is finished. The holes for the bolts are not as well positioned as I would like and I was a bit generous with the silver solder but hey ho. When all is all lagged and painted it will all disappear.
Last job before final assembly is to make steam chest covers.
Jerry.
-
On the home run now. I've been working in fits and starts over the last few weeks. I've made the valve chest covers and today I made some bearers/risers for the baseplates. I had some 1/4" square brass tube and added lightening holes with a step drill. Bought some 6BA threaded steel rod to make studs for the valve chests. I run two nuts up the rod, add a washer, thread the rod into the cylinder block, lock the nuts together, tighten the stud, free off the nuts, tighten the nut down on the washer, snip the bar off close to the nut then grind the stud close to the nut on the sander. Repeat as required. I'm starting to build the engine without the moving bits ready for painting. Also I've decided to make some oil cups for the main bearings. Will soft solder them into the bearing blocks.
-
Very swish....
-
I assembled one engine top end and kept bottom end separate. Ran them through a dish washer cycle then etch primed then sprayed with white radiator paint. Married top to bottom, set valve timing and finally replaced cylinder and valve chest covers. All "o" rings in and joints sealed with hylomar paste. Gave everything a good oiling and set the engine up on the lathe for running in.
Last picture one more to do.
Jerry.
-
While setting the piston timing the piston rod turned but the piston didn't. I think my loctite has seen better days. Removed both pistons and rods. Reapplied loctite to threads, centre popped the rod into the brass piston to add a bit more security. Drilled two holes into the piston tops and modified an old screwdriver to make adjustment easier in future.
The engine is still tight and notchy. The crossheads run hot when running in on the lathe so I eased the guide rod holes a tad and let them find an easier position. I'm running in useing a mixture of silver polish and 20/50 oil. Will have to get a new reducing valve for my compressor as it laid down and died when blowing the wife's bike tyres up the other day.
Jerry.
-
Nearly there Jerry :-))
Only got a boat to build now! I'm looking forward to that. O0 (Oh, and a boiler, gas tank, oil trap, water pump...... %% )
Greg
-
Hi Jerry
Just looking through your blog and what a fantastic blog it is and what a wonderful job you have made of the engine.
well done and thank you for sharing it with us.
I was particularly interested in the Draper vernier attached to you lathe.
Is it it possible for you to tell me where you purchased it? it would certainly take the guess work out of my backlash!
If you wish to make a boat I wish you well, you can follow my exploits on "building the alaska" if it helps.
best wishes
Alan Kerr
-
Hi Alan, thanks for the comments. All at a standstill at the moment. Too many other things going on. Vernier is off fleabay. It's a tyre tread depth indicator. About £3.50 if I remember. Also got the magnets off fleabay for pennies. Really works a treat. Get two one for cross slide tother for carriage travel.
Jerry.
-
Thank you Jerry, I thought you having a joke by saying Fleabay instead of eBay but I've just found out there is a fleabay!
cheers
Alan
-
I was joking. I didn't know there was a fleabay either. The wife's just googled it. If you can't find them on there go to eBay.
Jerry.
-
Amazing, thanks again
Alan
-
So, what happens now? Well, we are both retired now and so things have changed a lot.
We have bought a 57' narrowboat called Angelica. She was 2 years old when we got her and I have spent the last two years getting used to her and seeing that she is equipped for continuous cruising. We've kept her in a marina in Cheshire. We've worked hard getting our house ready for letting and downsizing to live on the boat. We now have a tenant and are living with our daughter in Canberra in sunny Oz until May 2017 when we return to the UK and the boat and start our cruise on the Leeds Liverpool canal system.
Steam Launch Wear is safely stowed aboard together with her support system and I hope to sail here in many places on the cut in our summer cruise.
I've brought my boiler, burner, engine and feed pump to Oz with a view to building a boat around the plant down here. I've made an introductory visit to the Tuggeranong Men's Shed here and after a few more visits hope to join the society.
If any Mayhemers are interested we run a blog on Facebook called "The Carts Down Under" and another called "Angelicas Adventures".
I'm copying this to "Jerry's Steam Launch Wear" thread as well. And will keep following Mayhem.
Jerry, (living the dream).
-
How lovely to hear your update Jerry, sounds like you are a contented man. Glad to hear that S/L Wear will be accompanying you into a long and enjoyable retirement. :-)) :-))
If you start your new boat in Oz are you intending to finish her before May next year? That would be quite a race! Or have you transferred the essentials of your workshop to Angelica? And will we get to see the build on Mayhem?
Enjoy the sunshine down under!
Greg (slightly envious)
-
Hi again Greg, all tools sold, given away or returned to lenders. Exquisitely painful experience. No motor bike or car anymore in U.K. Bought a used petrol Ford Focus over here in Oz. Got bicycle here too. Two Bikes on boat for use when its too far to walk. Boat fully equipped to do any job I can do myself, if I can squeeze overweight, arthritic body into the engine space. Fully teched up with mobile internet, smart TV and Apple TV l, even got a wifi printer. Only plan is to get to the Albert Dock for the Mersey river Festival. We are waiting to hear from authorities if we have got a slot for entry. No more deadlines. Model will be finished when it's finished. Looking at 4-5' long GRP hull trimmed out with exotic Australian hardwoods or what I can get from Bunnings. Will certainly write up the build on here.
The most important thing is no more winters!!! No more stress. Go when and where we like, when we like. Stop where we like for as long as we like. Only proviso is finding a marina to overwinter in that's near an international airport at end of November ready to fly to Oz. Thankfully Singapore Airlines now fly into Canberra which makes a huge difference. Only 6 1/2 hours from Singapore.
Watch this space. Thanks for the good wishes.
Jerry.
-
The building of the launch to put all the previous in continues on mayhem entitled “ Jerry’s Second Steam Launch.
Jerry C.