Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Model Boating => Topic started by: AL 1 on April 14, 2008, 10:09:23 pm
-
HI CAN ANYONE TELL ME WHERE I CAN GET MODEL BOAT INSURANCE THANKS AL
-
Basically, join a club or join the Model Power Boat Association. But check the conditions carefully.
-
Where you from is the obvious question but more importantly where do you sail.If there is a club sailing at the lake you should be able to join and get ins through them
Stavros
-
I AM IN SOUTHEAST LONDON I SAIL AT CLPHAM COMMON BUT THERE IS ONLY A YACHT CLUB THERE THANKS AL
-
hi, do you want to insure your boat against damage and loss, or do you want to insure for third parties claiming against you by injuring them selves on your boat. you don't say.if it's the former I can supply an insurer's name for such losses.
-
HI I JUST WANT TO INSURE MY BOATS FOR THE THIRD PARTY SO I CAN ATTEND EVENTS THANKS AL
-
there is a company called Walker Midgley who specialise in modelling insurance
here is their website http://www.walkermidgley.co.uk/ (http://www.walkermidgley.co.uk/)
It may be worth checking to see even if the yacht people would let you join just for
the insurance
-
OK I WILL GIVE IT A TRY MANY THANKS AL
-
As you have a sub, you may want to join the AMS, http://www.modelsubmarines.org/
£18 a year which includes a quarterly journal and insurance ;)
"We provide your (very necessary) public liability insurance. This currently provides £2m cover anytime anywhere in Europe and includes cover for all Boats, Steam Locomotives (Up to 60psi) and R/C Model Aircraft up to 40cc engine size."
-
Try www.walkermidgley.co.uk
Martin
-
I know I'm being a bit stupid but can someone explain why public liability insurance is necessary for model boating? It's probably obvious but I really don't know the answer
-
Just my thought too ,
model boats in my opinion are to be used for their intended purpose ,to be seen in their natural enviroment (on the water).
Now if i am sailing my trafalgar two feet under the water and i collide with joe public and hurt them ,what the hell are they doing in the bloody pond >>:-( .
No but seriously if you display your models for the public and joe public is injured by your model (in any way) then they may have a claim for damages,in this world of litigation and every time you turn your telly on there is someone telling you not only that you can claim for injury but now you can claim if your original claim was'nt enough >:( .
Even sticking a notice on your beloved model stating (do not touch) will not stop fingers probing around the sharp bits .
daz
-
I know I'm being a bit stupid but can someone explain why public liability insurance is necessary for model boating? It's probably obvious but I really don't know the answer
In addition, most owners of the waters we sail on will require this insurance. You also have to remember that some people sail very fast I/C boats which if they leave the water can inflict serious injury. We had a case at our water, though not a member of our club thankfully.
Barrie
-
Why do we need insurance ? answer is simple "It's the world we live in " I think we have been down this road before I have Public Liability Insurance which covers me and my boats for up to £2.5 million pounds where did I get it , I already had it in my household insurance, .all I did was get the insurance company to add a clause saying the third party liability covered the use of model boats in public places
Cheers
BobB
-
I believe some of you may be short on cover, especially the submariners, when displaying at Brighton Modelworld earlier this year the Council required £5 million cover, I think this is the case if you exhibit in many Council properties.
Walker Midgley have arranged the cover for my club and it is set at £5 million.
Alan
-
I believe some of you may be short on cover, especially the submariners, when displaying at Brighton Modelworld earlier this year the Council required £5 million cover, I think this is the case if you exhibit in many Council properties.
Walker Midgley have arranged the cover for my club and it is set at £5 million.
Alan
5 million is that a bit much. I know we live in the mad world were ever one has a lawyer on speed dial but common on when a hospital all most kills people most pay out never get near 5 million . So surly Joe public ant going to get near that for cutting his finger on your boat. But then you could do dog eats dog and sue him for damage to property.
john
-
If you have an electrical fire in a model and burn down a building such as the Brighton Centre, how much is the rebuild going to be? You have also got to think about all the other exhibits on display, boats, planes, cars, trains, dolls houses etc.etc. Better safe than sorry in my opinion. You have got to remember that these models are left at the show over night on Thursday, Friday and Saturday, one small mistake is all it takes.
Alan
-
I think you will find that most councils and exhibition venues are already starting to ask for £5m insurance cover. Our local council does.
Once one catches hold of it, it usually becomes the norm fairly quickly. Dustbin lids over the backside.
John
-
Why do we need insurance ? answer is simple "It's the world we live in " I think we have been down this road before I have Public Liability Insurance which covers me and my boats for up to £2.5 million pounds where did I get it , I already had it in my household insurance, .all I did was get the insurance company to add a clause saying the third party liability covered the use of model boats in public places
Cheers
BobB
So if u were to damage someone elses boat by lets say throwing yours in and hitting mine how much would i get BOB! >:(
-
If you have an electrical fire in a model and burn down a building such as the Brighton Centre, how much is the rebuild going to be? You have also got to think about all the other exhibits on display, boats, planes, cars, trains, dolls houses etc.etc. Better safe than sorry in my opinion. You have got to remember that these models are left at the show over night on Thursday, Friday and Saturday, one small mistake is all it takes.
Alan
Yes, I can see that a boat could, at a stretch, just possibly start a fire when exhibited but that isn't what I mean. What I don't understand is, when I'm sailing my scale tug or scale sailing barge down at the park why do I need to have millions of pounds of cover? IC boats, steam engined boats or even fast electrics could cause harm to an individual in some unlikely scenario, maybe, but does anyone know the actual number of 3rd parties maimed or injured by any of them? Never mind 3rd parties injured by broken goosenecks or Kort nozzles exploding. What are the chances and why £5 million quid?
Either the world's gone mad or I have :-\
-
Think about it Andy. If you've got no insurance on your boats that means no bonus for the Insurance company directors to trouser.
If you buy insurance they can then come back at the year end and say 'Yes, but you could have had an accident and it's wiser to be covered'.
I've just renewed my household insurance with the same company who wanted an 8.5% increase on last year. When I asked why and suggested I'd look for a better quote as they didn't offer a no claims bonus they then said that last year's price would hold for this year.
If you want cover you have to pay and only get what you pay for. The small print is always too small for me to read. I wonder why!!
-
andygh
you may not require as much as £5million on such an occasion, but, if you exhibit at a council owned premises you will more often than not require it. So if your club is covered for that ammount you have no problem. What you must realise is that even if you do not require it because maybe you keep yourself to yourself, others within the club do need that ammount. Not all my friends, club members go and exhibit at shows but the club has to cover all members for all occasions. NOW IS IT CLEAR
Alan
-
NOW IS IT CLEAR
Well it's clear that I'm subsidising someone else I suppose.
I think basically kiteman is correct, insurance companies rarely if ever have to pay out on model boat policies so it's a nice little earner for them with hardly any risk and we unquestioningly stick our hands in our pockets yet again.
Just don't get me started on the NHS & the benefits system >:(
-
We have a large membership in the club, about 150 I think, which works out at about £2-00 each a year, better than taking out your own policy.
Alan
-
Still unfair though eh?
-
Seems reasonable to me. Little Johnny could bend over your model and poke his eye out on your mast. I doubt if his parents would then say "what an unfortunate accident!"
-
Sadly, in this day & age you're probably right, they wouldn't, it'd be "injury lawyers R'us" all the way no doubt.
Shame it wasn't always like this, I'd be as rich as Croesus by now
-
Another item you should also take care with is your transmitter aerial, this should be protected. Now I have a good idea for this, and I have put it into practice, first buy a new set of radio (or secondhand if you can) then get a can of John Smith's Bitter, consume the beer, crack open the can and take out the widget, drill a hole in the widget and place on the end of the aerial. I have about twenty transmitters now, it's been good protecting the aerial tips. Anybody got any transmitters spare or even unprotected and needs a hand give me a call.
Alan
-
Sounds like a plan, I'm not keen on John Smiths but I'm willing to make the sacrifice O0
-
Before the age of the digital camera, I used empty film cannisters on the ends of Tx Aes. Pete M
-
Pete M
I get more enjoyment getting the widgets from beer cans than using a 35mm camera to get the film cannisters.
Alan
-
Buy a kinder egg eat the chocolate ok there is better but it's still chocolate stick little plastic egg on TX aerial. I like the John Smiths idea mind. {-)
Andy. O0
-
Has anyone, or do you know of anyone who has had a successful claim against them when Joe Public has been hurt by their boat when it was sitting on a table at a show?
Has anyone claimed against another boat owner when it has damaged theirs on the water?
Do these policies pay how when a boat is stolen? Any one had a successful payout?
-
hi all what i am saying only applies to scale boat not ic steam or fast electric. OK so Joe public hurt them selves on your boat after ignoring the do not touch sign.
1 how do the know who you are. Under EU law i don't have to say any thing .
2 how can they prove it was your boat ,forensics i don't think so. So now all Joe public knows it was a red boat at such a venue not a good start for a compensation case.
As for damage against other modelers boats. If 2 or more boat are going to collide chances are it will happen on the water. As far as i know there are no rules for model boat on a lake. IE with a car there you drive on the left and give way to the right on round about etc etc. so when a collision occurs it is possible to find out who was in the wrong. so how would do this with model boat, who has right of way etc etc. I think in a collision it would be each party pays there own.
As for setting fire to a building. One has to ask how likely . With a scale boat the only source of ignition is the battery's so once they are discounted the risk is gone. Now i don't know about you lot but i don't tend to leave my boat unattended with the batters connected. So were the risk.
I have yet to see the need fore insurance other that to claim against if your boat get stolen.
john
-
I have yet to see the need fore insurance other that to claim against if your boat get stolen.
Cos918, you are protecting yourself, up to the limit of cover, against any claim made against you involving your models or modelling activities. In the unlikely event of a claim being made against you. Without insurance you run the risk of possible bankruptcy and your house been taken off you. Are you prepared to take that risk ?
Also, you will find it difficult or expensive to insure your boat for loss once its on the water as the insurance companies deem it too much of a risk. Most policies cover you for third party liability only. In other words, causing harm to others.
If you're sailing at a private lake where the general public are not allowed in then it might seem a little OTT but if you are using public lakes then you need the cover even if the risk may only be slight.
If you wish to join a club or sail on local authority waters as a group then insurance is almost always required anyhow.
FC
-
Well said FC, it is quite evident that the 2 previous people have not read all the items on this subject.
Take my eye out with the tip of your transmitter aerial, thanks that will cost you YOUR house.
Oh, did my boat catch fire whilst on the table due to an eletrical fault and burn down this nice Council building, thanks that will cost you YOUR house.
In other words GET INSURANCE for your own sake.
Oh! and the other answer is yes, I was told a long time ago of a claim when a boat went up a bank and a young child picked it up to put it back in the water and had his fingers cut by the propeller.
Alan
-
Well said FC, it is quite evident that the 2 previous people have not read all the items on this subject.
Take my eye out with the tip of your transmitter aerial, thanks that will cost you YOUR house.
Oh, did my boat catch fire whilst on the table due to an eletrical fault and burn down this nice Council building, thanks that will cost you YOUR house.
In other words GET INSURANCE for your own sake.
Oh! and the other answer is yes, I was told a long time ago of a claim when a boat went up a bank and a young child picked it up to put it back in the water and had his fingers cut by the propeller.
Alan
Did this boy get compensation or try to and found out it was to much hassle.
I have read the subject all i was saying in this mad world were if you listened to every one your want insurance cover to walk down the. If you step back one minute and look at situation for what they are and question it some the answers are diffrent.
Lose your eye on my transmiter aerial is no diffrent than poking you eye on some one carrying a piece of wood from a diy shop. Do they have insurance NO they don't.
As for people loosing there house let not cause panic. Lose of any eye is round £25k most house +£150k.
Boat burning down a building ?well your boat being there is covered by the venue/show insurance.
So like i said I can see the risks But is it worth the premium each year. It would be very intersting to see how many big insurance pay outs there were for the year 2007/2008 for SCALE model boats.
john
-
I am not sure of the outcome on the boys claim, as I said I was told this, it came up in conversation one day.
As for the building cover, I can only judge by the requirements for entering the shows, in the case of Brighton Centre I am led to believe by the committee of my club that £5million was required.
-
John,
It's like all insurance. At the end of the day it's up to you to assess the risk and possible consequences. Strange things do happen. At a NAVIGA meeting a very long time ago a scale boat fired a pyrotechnic which set fire to a spectator's jacket! Of course anyone using pyrotechnics like the Portsmouth Display Team will almost certainly be insured but it's the mundane things that can catch you out. If you display your boat on a table and it has a thin sharp aerial or mast and somebody leans over to look at the model next door and pokes their eye out then my guess is that, in this litigious age in which we live, they will quite likely be looking for somebody to blame.
If somebody carelessly brains you with a lump of wood when walking out of a DIY store you can still chose to sue them whether they've got insurance or not.
However, as FC says, in many instances having insurance is required before you can sail your boat on a particular water.
Colin
-
Just paid my and my sons club fees for the year including public liability insurance at any venue £7.50 each.
What is all the fuss about ? Cough up you tight b***ers.
-
I will get insurance once my boat is back on the water as £7.50 is nothing. The point i was getting at is for some one to claim against you is quite hard as they have to prove it was you that caused the injury.
-
Fancy posting me a few "nothing"s?
-
ok not a lot then Just over 2 pints and since i don't smoke cant tell you how may fags it would be. But £7.50 don't go far to day.
-
Quote
What are the chances and why £5 million quid?
Unquote
If the premium is less than £50 then the chances are very slim/low/remote making it money for old rope.
£5 million is a nice round number.
Doug
Cynical moi? >>:-(
-
Seconded Doug and there's nowt wrong with a bit of cynicism
-
The very high cover rates for insurance (£2 - £5 million have been mentioned so far) are driven by the requirements imposed by local authorities and commercial venues for certain levels of minimum cover. These minimum levels are in turn driven by the very large excesses on public venues and commercial organisations. It is not unusual for insurance on a commercial building to have a £2 - £5 million excess for damage caused by a second/third party, although often the highest excesses will relate specifically to "hot work" and other high fire risk activities. The high excesses are a measure to bring premiums down to an affordable level.. the value and number of claims has been rising for years, and this is the consequence.
Interestingly, it's quite common in some less litigative European countries (Germany springs to mind) for members of the public to take out third-party liability insurance as a matter of routine.
Somebody mentioned the no-win, no-fee adverts on the tv.. am I the only one that when they see the one with the forklift truck shouts at the screen, "No.. the forklift truck didn't suddenly reverse into you without looking.. your MATE drove it into you without looking.."? and then they show the "after" picture.. which is actually an even less safe workplace! (lots of people wearing high viz doesn't make a workplace safer, nor does lots of warning signs.. seperating the pedestrians from the vehicles is what would make that workplace safer).. .. I'll get off my soapbox..
-
That's OK then, everyone is getting ripped off, not just model boaters :(
-
Methinks this is no different to every other walk of life , as a nation we get ripped off when we buy anything and everything , and the government and local councils seem to be about the most succesful at it >>:-(
P.S...........apart from the gas and electric company's
regards..bob.
-
Reading the posts on this subject makes me realise that the situation in Australia regarding public liability is similar to Britain. I live in a small block of 3 units (flats), and we have to have public liability to the tune of AUD$10 million, about Stg 5 million, just in case some fool trips over his own shadow on our driveway and hurts him/herself. Our model boat club is covered by the local RSL (Returned Services League) Club, with which we are affiliated, for all necessary insurance risks. This includes the loss of our storage container due to arson recently - see "Break in" on this forum. The cost of this insurance is borne by the RSL Club, and all our model boat club members have to join the RSL Club which costs $10 a year. Cheap at twice the price O0
The other benefits of our model boat club being affiliated with the RSL Club include use of a meeting room, and use of the club's large auditoriums for our bi-annual Hobby and Model Expo, which will be on again in September this year.
Peter.
-
i do think its all abit much.... i mean if you stand up in court and say " a model boat ran me down at 5mph!! " just lol
i see some of the good sides of the insurance but most of it is just a joke {-)
peter over there it must be worse? dont you guys need a lisence to drive any real boat?
-
Sorry to be so long replying to this one, but yes, in Australia we do need a licence to drive any (real) boat at more than 10 knots, except Personal Water Craft (jet skis), which require a special licence. I have a 3.6 metre aluminium runabout with a 15hp motor, and I have a licence for that. The same laws applying to vehicle drivers regarding alcohol also apply to boat drivers.
Peter.
-
Think outside the box - take it to the worse case scenario and then double it:
Person comes up to you whilst you're preparing yor boat, bends over to look carefully at it, pokes eye on aerial or part of superstucture, leaps back in shock trips falls into river after goosing themself on railing, dragging dog on lead into water.
You then have a potential third party liability claim for injury to eye, resulting in non ability to work or enjoy the theatre in binocular vision, the drowned dog (or worse one that survived but is now afraid of the water ) damaged clothes. The emergency service that rescued them, took them to the hospital and dog to vet, the trauma, the aftercare - the legal teams, your and theirs. And after all the compenation, the punitvie damges.....£5 million? peanuts.
There was a case of the kid caught with broken leg in school building after breaking in via a skylight - the school was sued because the caretaker didin't return ladders to secure storage after use. The world HAS gone mad - at least if you've got insurance, you've someone else to fight your corner. Get covered.
-
A simple way to look at it is that there are no end of ways you could injure somebody with a model boat. Including having their eye out with a TX aerial. And imagine if that eye belonged to Naomi Campbell, the claim would be huge.
There is also no end of the inventiveness of the ambulance chasers to elevate a claim.
As mentioned above a policy needs to be able to cover property claims by a third party.
It is just as easy to get a policy written for 10 pounds cover as it is for 10 million.
Any policy should be able to cover a worst case scenario, otherwise you are as exposed as if you have no insurance at all.
And yes it is all a huge pain in the butt to live in a litigious culture.
-
I can imagine the advert already..
"I was paddling in the pond, minding my own business, when this model boat reversed into me without looking.."
-
Stick it on your house insurance ring them up and state what it is and the value and they should cover you for a small premium
-
Stick it on your house insurance ring them up and state what it is and the value and they should cover you for a small premium
I think you have the wrong idea about this insurance issue truman06. Your household insurance will possibly cover you boats at home but they will not give you third party liabilty cover to the value of up to £5 million that is required in many cases.
Alan
-
Someone mentioned earlier about what would happen if your boat caused a fire in a building at a show etc.
The insurance policies I've looked at will not cover you if the fire is found to be down to faulty electrics, so do bear that in mind, as I see a lot bad practice when it comes to wiring in models.
Also in reference to a mast poking someone eye out etc. You may want to ask yourself what happens if you accidently poke your finger in someones eye, or tread on their foot etc. Will your model insurance cover you for that? Ask, and make sure you get it in writing.
-
Hello.
It is down to personal choice, but I have been using a Company called Walker Midgley for my modelling insurance, this Company specialises in cover for various sections of our hobby, the amount of cover is variable and is very reasonable regarding cost, look up on www.walkermidgley.co.uk insurance is a very necessary item if sailing and in contact with public.
Howard
-
Join the BMPRS in UK and fully insured for any powered rc boat ,costs £10 wohoo.
-
hi all what i am saying only applies to scale boat not ic steam or fast electric. OK so Joe public hurt them selves on your boat after ignoring the do not touch sign.
1 how do the know who you are. Under EU law i don't have to say any thing .
2 how can they prove it was your boat ,forensics i don't think so. So now all Joe public knows it was a red boat at such a venue not a good start for a compensation case.
As for damage against other modelers boats. If 2 or more boat are going to collide chances are it will happen on the water. As far as i know there are no rules for model boat on a lake. IE with a car there you drive on the left and give way to the right on round about etc etc. so when a collision occurs it is possible to find out who was in the wrong. so how would do this with model boat, who has right of way etc etc. I think in a collision it would be each party pays there own.
As for setting fire to a building. One has to ask how likely . With a scale boat the only source of ignition is the battery's so once they are discounted the risk is gone. Now i don't know about you lot but i don't tend to leave my boat unattended with the batters connected. So were the risk.
I have yet to see the need fore insurance other that to claim against if your boat get stolen.
john
hi john
may i point out that public liabilty insurance is required due to the nature of the hobby as you say accident with scale boat may be less likely but its not only the use of the boat one the water thats covered its more !! say you got your boat out of your car with all the lids off so you didnt damage them and for what ever reason the battery exploded because you only just bought it and wasnt aware there was a fault with it ? yourself and others people were near enough to recieve bad injuries from the acid contained in the battery ! what would you do then with no insurance are u aware that you could loose your house !
heres the process you would hope for !
the injured person would be taken to hospital you go home nothing said ? not in this day and age !
heres a brief script of what would happen !
you and the person goes to hospital, not before the ambulance people or police have taken all your details oh dear under eu law you dont have to give it but you have without thinking !!
then comes the next one the person has to have 2 weeks off work due to recieveing acid burns to his face and eyes !he comes out of hospital and rings a solicitor and starts taking legal proceedings againt you for loss of earnings plus medical expensences and anything else they can get out of you ! OH I FORGOT UNDER EU LAW YOU DONT HAVE TO GIVE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS but to the police when they arrive because an ambulance was called you already have ! oh and they have made notes about the accident along with the ambulance service notes of injurys !
NOW MONTHS DOWN THE LINE
you are asked to appear at county court under a civil proceeding against you ! oh you dont attend because you dont see the need or have any insurance to help you ! hmm judge awards victim full costs applied for and find you guilty of not taking reasonable care and precaution ! or similar and you now have the victioms court costs too ! hmm £100,0000 by the time you finish ! now then your no where to be found so you think police have given statements with your name and given address etc wait for the next things to happen bailiffs from county court with a warrent or seisure of goods or even property to cover the costs !
this is a potential scale of what could happen (not that it has to my knowledge) but better to be safe than sorry ! for the sake of spending £10 on insurance (bmprs) or slightly more with other groups upto the individuals ! that accident would have been dealt with by the insurance with perhaps you making one or two statements and filling in a form or two !
answer me one question truthly john if some one hurt you or cause damage tht meant you had to tak time off work would you let them get away with it if you thought they were at fault and you could make a good few quid out of it or set to loose money ? no matter how it was caused or what with ?
chance is that you would think about claiming !
i hope others see the point of insurance and how its a safe guard rather than an argument point in todays society !
yes in the 80's people would have shrugged it of and got on with thing but today is different ! whilst many of us like to think we live if a perfect world where people dont claim sad fact is they do and for the slightest thing if they can get away with it !
just my point of view on the matter !
i wouldnt run and model without having appropriate cover as you just never know whats gonna happen ! it might be beyond your control but your could be held to blame !
mark
-
hi john
may i point out that public liabilty insurance is required due to the nature of the hobby as you say accident with scale boat may be less likely but its not only the use of the boat one the water thats covered its more !! say you got your boat out of your car with all the lids off so you didnt damage them and for what ever reason the battery exploded because you only just bought it and wasnt aware there was a fault with it ? yourself and others people were near enough to recieve bad injuries from the acid contained in the battery ! what would you do then with no insurance are u aware that you could loose your house !
heres the process you would hope for !
the injured person would be taken to hospital you go home nothing said ? not in this day and age !
heres a brief script of what would happen !
you and the person goes to hospital, not before the ambulance people or police have taken all your details oh dear under eu law you dont have to give it but you have without thinking !!
then comes the next one the person has to have 2 weeks off work due to recieveing acid burns to his face and eyes !he comes out of hospital and rings a solicitor and starts taking legal proceedings againt you for loss of earnings plus medical expensences and anything else they can get out of you ! OH I FORGOT UNDER EU LAW YOU DONT HAVE TO GIVE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS but to the police when they arrive because an ambulance was called you already have ! oh and they have made notes about the accident along with the ambulance service notes of injurys !
NOW MONTHS DOWN THE LINE
you are asked to appear at county court under a civil proceeding against you ! oh you dont attend because you dont see the need or have any insurance to help you ! hmm judge awards victim full costs applied for and find you guilty of not taking reasonable care and precaution ! or similar and you now have the victioms court costs too ! hmm £100,0000 by the time you finish ! now then your no where to be found so you think police have given statements with your name and given address etc wait for the next things to happen bailiffs from county court with a warrent or seisure of goods or even property to cover the costs !
this is a potential scale of what could happen (not that it has to my knowledge) but better to be safe than sorry ! for the sake of spending £10 on insurance (bmprs) or slightly more with other groups upto the individuals ! that accident would have been dealt with by the insurance with perhaps you making one or two statements and filling in a form or two !
answer me one question truthly john if some one hurt you or cause damage tht meant you had to tak time off work would you let them get away with it if you thought they were at fault and you could make a good few quid out of it or set to loose money ? no matter how it was caused or what with ?
chance is that you would think about claiming !
i hope others see the point of insurance and how its a safe guard rather than an argument point in todays society !
yes in the 80's people would have shrugged it of and got on with thing but today is different ! whilst many of us like to think we live if a perfect world where people dont claim sad fact is they do and for the slightest thing if they can get away with it !
just my point of view on the matter !
i wouldnt run and model without having appropriate cover as you just never know whats gonna happen ! it might be beyond your control but your could be held to blame !
mark
What plant are you on.
Batteries exploding like high Explosive GET REAL. Worst case they go pop and one of the vent lift. To Do that you have to short them out whit a peace of metal bar or over charge to the point you want it to go bang.
That other John is corect you dont need insurance . If you want it that your choise but let keep this thread to realty. Do you think we need insurance in case we some how bring a 747 down , the answer is NO.
Talk like that is what drives the insurance ,H/S cultchur we live in.
I challange any one on this forum to show me were some has been sued over a model boat incedent excluding IC boat Fast electrics and steam. I wait fro the rush of exampels to come foward.
If there were all thes claimes think an insurance would give you £20 000 000 for a £10 no way. Look how car insurance has gone up by claims .
NHS staff cant give out your address to any one . Patient confidentality.
John
-
As I said in an earlier post, many of these policies don't cover electrical faults- check the small print of your policy.
My way of thinking is that if you're going to have insurance, you're probably better off with personal liability insurance than a modellers specific policy. That type of insurance covers you for most activities you're likely to engage in, including things outside of modelmaking.
-
Kirklees Model Boat Club are requried to have £5 million pound public liiability cover to sail on the local park lake.
Anyone with less cover in my opinion is under insured
-
Hello.
It is down to personal choice, but I have been using a Company called Walker Midgley for my modelling insurance, this Company specialises in cover for various sections of our hobby, the amount of cover is variable and is very reasonable regarding cost, look up on www.walkermidgley.co.uk insurance is a very necessary item if sailing and in contact with public.
Howard
Hi Howard,
I'd be interested to know how much you paid for your insurance and how much cover you have, it may be you can save yourself quite a bit of cash by joining a club/society and thereby becoming insured under their public liability cover. Just a thought. :-))
Regards
Scoop
-
http://www.srcmbc.org.uk/index.php
Solent Radio Controlled Model Boat Club membership fees include Walker Midgley Insurance.
Membership fees are Single Member: £10, Family: £20, Couple: £15, Junior: £5 and the membership joining fee is now £5.
Policy. http://www.srcmbc.org.uk/visinfo_insure.php
-
http://www.srcmbc.org.uk/index.php
Solent Radio Controlled Model Boat Club membership fees include Walker Midgley Insurance.
Membership fees are Single Member: £10, Family: £20, Couple: £15, Junior: £5 and the membership joining fee is now £5.
Policy. http://www.srcmbc.org.uk/visinfo_insure.php
Nice to see another club with very reasonable membership fees, our fees at BMPRS are across the board, presently £10 in your first year and £8 thereafter at renewal (membership year is Jan - Dec) and this includes W.M. insurance underwritten by Royal Sun Alliance
Regards
Scoop
-
i think some people have miss conceptions regarding insurance !
its not only to pay people out but in todays culture we live in there are people who are just looking for the opportunity to be the victim of an accident no matter how it was / is caused ! its also to fight our / your corner should you happen to have the unfortunate experience of one of these people !
the point people are trying to make and not argue about is that let it not affect our hobby and try and safe guard ourselves from this ! without insurance should some one try to say for what ever reason you caused injury to them you could be in for a right old rough ride ! so no matter if its elastic band powered wind powered or any other type of model boat its better to have someone to fight your corner than have to do it yourself !
john as for NHS not giving personal details out no they don't to general public but if the police or solicitors contact them with details of an accident or trying to trace somebody that may be a fault they will give it to those ! oh by the way look on youtube regarding lipo fire explosions id didn't specify any types of batteries i only used it as a reference to try and get a point across of what could happen !!
as i explained above it doesn't matter who the accident is caused by, people are still looking to blame ! its only to apparent in the phrase "
where theres blame theres a claim !" were now in 2011 not back in the 80's !!
£10 or £20 isn't that much really when you think of how much it could cost should your become one of the unfortunate people that may have a claim made against them !
i have also check the bmprs insurance does cover batteries powered models the only power that ARE NOT covered are rocket, pulse jet unit,gas turbine,turbojet or jetex !
mark
-
Here's the bit that concerns me, in the policy details of a well known model insurance provider-
Exclusions: -
Loss or damage caused by mechanical or electrical faults failures breakdowns or derangements
Now just what does that mean? Looks to me like a multitude of ways an underwriter called wiggle out of a claim with that one. "So Mr Bloggs, your battery went pop did it, well I'm afraid the policy doesn't cover you for that, you will need to speak with the company, shop etc. who supplied you with that faulty battery."
-
i think some people have miss conceptions regarding insurance !
its not only to pay people out but in todays culture we live in there are people who are just looking for the opportunity to be the victim of an accident no matter how it was / is caused ! its also to fight our / your corner should you happen to have the unfortunate experience of one of these people !
the point people are trying to make and not argue about is that let it not affect our hobby and try and safe guard ourselves from this ! without insurance should some one try to say for what ever reason you caused injury to them you could be in for a right old rough ride ! so no matter if its elastic band powered wind powered or any other type of model boat its better to have someone to fight your corner than have to do it yourself !
john as for NHS not giving personal details out no they don't to general public but if the police or solicitors contact them with details of an accident or trying to trace somebody that may be a fault they will give it to those ! oh by the way look on youtube regarding lipo fire explosions id didn't specify any types of batteries i only used it as a reference to try and get a point across of what could happen !!
as i explained above it doesn't matter who the accident is caused by, people are still looking to blame ! its only to apparent in the phrase "
where theres blame theres a claim !" were now in 2011 not back in the 80's !!
£10 or £20 isn't that much really when you think of how much it could cost should your become one of the unfortunate people that may have a claim made against them !
i have also check the bmprs insurance does cover batteries powered models the only power that ARE NOT covered are rocket, pulse jet unit,gas turbine,turbojet or jetex !
mark
Mark
The Police need to get a court order to get details from the HNS and that is very raliy granted. Solicitors cant get info with out patient consent. Look it up
As for Lipo going bang I saw it to. That fact he diliberatley over charged to make it go bang was to show what can happen ,but then you would be expect an accident to happen and I dought any insure will cover you for that.
Subsculture
If that is in an insurace policy then that policy ant worth the paper it is wrighten on.
Like I said earlier £10 £20 fees for £5 000 000 cover prove the insures have never had to make a big pay out.
John
-
Another item you should also take care with is your transmitter aerial, this should be protected. Now I have a good idea for this, and I have put it into practice, first buy a new set of radio (or secondhand if you can) then get a can of John Smith's Bitter, consume the beer, crack open the can and take out the widget, drill a hole in the widget and place on the end of the aerial. I have about twenty transmitters now, it's been good protecting the aerial tips. Anybody got any transmitters spare or even unprotected and needs a hand give me a call.
Alan
I'm just wondering if you cut your hand on the tin when you crack it open to get at the widget could that be classed as a boating related injury ? :}
Scoop
Ps I'm not keen on J.S bitter it's Tanglefoot all the way for me....at least I know why I fell over {-) {-) {-)
-
Mark
The Police need to get a court order to get details from the HNS and that is very raliy granted. Solicitors cant get info with out patient consent. Look it up
As for Lipo going bang I saw it to. That fact he diliberatley over charged to make it go bang was to show what can happen ,but then you would be expect an accident to happen and I dought any insure will cover you for that.
Subsculture
If that is in an insurace policy then that policy ant worth the paper it is wrighten on.
Like I said earlier £10 £20 fees for £5 000 000 cover prove the insures have never had to make a big pay out.
John
Actually John it's just over £400 for the Public Liability Insurance for BMPRS, the £10 is the membership fee to join the society.
Regards
Scoop
-
Actually John it's just over £400 for the Public Liability Insurance for BMPRS, the £10 is the membership fee to join the society.
Regards
Scoop
As a matter of interest, do you mean that the policy premium is just over £400 and that the individuals share is paid for by his/her membership or that the individual's premium is around £400 (surely not)?
-
Hi Dougal99,
The cost of the insurance is about £400, which is paid by the society. As a member of the society you are then covered by the insurance, that the society purchases on an annual basis. The cost to you is only £10 in the first year, then £8 in following years to join and be a member of BMPRS.
I hope this has answered your question.
David Shaw
-
As a matter of interest, do you mean that the policy premium is just over £400 and that the individuals share is paid for by his/her membership or that the individual's premium is around £400 (surely not)?
Dave Shaw has answered your question (thanks Dave) :-)) but I would like to add that if you want individual insurance rather than joining a club or society then that would cost you around £30 per annum through a broker (I think some brokers are now charging an administration fee on top of that).
Regards
Scoop
-
Dear All,
I have come in on this Topic at a very late stage, but it is something that interests me.
I would like to Insure my five vessels for Fire/Theft - anywhere - and would be pleased to join a Club to get it, and would be happy to pay £30 p.a. to get insurance.
Can someone advise please? Thankyou.
Regards, Bernard
-
Sorry if I have missed something but why would the Police become involved ?
-
Dear All,
I have come in on this Topic at a very late stage, but it is something that interests me.
I would like to Insure my five vessels for Fire/Theft - anywhere - and would be pleased to join a Club to get it, and would be happy to pay £30 p.a. to get insurance.
Can someone advise please? Thankyou.
Regards, Bernard
Hi Bernard,
This topic is regarding Third Party Public Liability for attending shows and racing as well as down at the local lake, this type of insurance does not cover loss through theft or fire, however if you speak to your household insurer you may be able to get them covered under that policy.
Or give Walker Midgley a call they have a policy that is suitable for your needs, In the Schedule of Cover, Section 1, Property Damage , full details can be found on their website www.walkermidgley.co.uk or tel: 0114 250 2770
Regards
Scoop
-
Just a thought..... If you fly model aircraft,The BMFA insurance covers model boats....
-
Just a thought..... If you fly model aircraft,The BMFA insurance covers model boats....
Another thought.....thanks for reminding me.....the insurance BMPRS uses covers you for flying as well as many other forms of model use, eg cars, trains and of course boats :-)) but it excludes jet enguines (other than jetex) gas turbines and rockets.
Regards
Scoop
-
As new member of the site I have just read all this about insurance .
I am Captain of my local Model Boat Club in the New Forest , we are required to have insurance by the Rules of the Forestry Commission who own our sailing water , we need to have cover for Third Party Claims for £5m at all times the lake is in use by the club and have to provide annual proof of cover to the FC . Walker Midgley provide our cover and it covers the club and individual members at any exhibition venue or sailing venue as well as at our own lake . Our annual individual membership is only £10 a year and it includes the insurance cover for members wherever they sail . We are not allowed fast electric or IC boats by the FC rules , We have not had any claims but peace of mind is there when we have lots of General Public visitors walking around on club days (4/5 days a week ) . Visitors wishing to sail who are not members of another club/ with their own insurance are charged £1.50 for the day (temporary membership and insurance) .
You may be interested to note that we are also responsible for the protection of the environment , public safety and compliance with the FC By laws ( no lighting of fires, BBQs , wildlife and fauna protection etc etc ) we are requested to notify the FC of anyone not complying and we do get regular inspections by Wardens . We are also advised to have a First aid Kit and a Mobile Phone available at the venue .
Benefits worth being a club member for as well as the meeting of like minded people to enjoy sailing model boats !!!
-
Hi David how are you ?
I think I have some way to go still before I can get down to the lake again but am keeping my fingers crossed.
-
Like I said earlier £10 £20 fees for £5 000 000 cover prove the insures have never had to make a big pay out.
Not if it's the same as model aircraft insurers, it means they don't pay out very often, (and most sports, including modelling activities, are covered on the same underwritten policy). There's been some big claims on BMFA insurance - the biggest, IIRC, was caused by someone losing an eye after being hit by a paper aeroplane.
One thing to realise about third party liability insurance, is that they will only pay out if you are found to be liable - no liability, no payout.
Mark
-
Just an out of interest question, but has there ever been an insurance claim involving a model Boat? I believe
not .Am i to be corrected. If this is so then the companys have made a few bob over the years. John.
-
Yes, I think the MPBA have had a few claims against their insurance.
Colin
-
Thanks Colin. Did wonder.All the more reason to be covered . Thanks. John.
-
As new member of the site I have just read all this about insurance .
I am Captain of my local Model Boat Club in the New Forest , we are required to have insurance by the Rules of the Forestry Commission who own our sailing water , we need to have cover for Third Party Claims for £5m at all times the lake is in use by the club and have to provide annual proof of cover to the FC . Walker Midgley provide our cover and it covers the club and individual members at any exhibition venue or sailing venue as well as at our own lake . Our annual individual membership is only £10 a year and it includes the insurance cover for members wherever they sail . We are not allowed fast electric or IC boats by the FC rules , We have not had any claims but peace of mind is there when we have lots of General Public visitors walking around on club days (4/5 days a week ) . Visitors wishing to sail who are not members of another club/ with their own insurance are charged £1.50 for the day (temporary membership and insurance) .
You may be interested to note that we are also responsible for the protection of the environment , public safety and compliance with the FC By laws ( no lighting of fires, BBQs , wildlife and fauna protection etc etc ) we are requested to notify the FC of anyone not complying and we do get regular inspections by Wardens . We are also advised to have a First aid Kit and a Mobile Phone available at the venue .
Benefits worth being a club member for as well as the meeting of like minded people to enjoy sailing model boats !!!
I would check with your insurers Re: £1.50 for temporary membership for the day. Several years ago I looked after the insurance side of things at my local club and was told by Walker Midgley that only Fully Paid up members are insured under our Public Liability Insurance, temporary members are not insured. So anyone going to shows, venues, races etc it is your obligation to check you and or the venue are fully insured (show organisers can take out insurance to cover the venue and all it's visitors).......if there's an accident and you are proven to be liable with no adequate insurance you will be putting everything you own at risk, house, car, marriage, even the shirt on your back.... :((
Kind regards
Scoop
-
Re: £1.50 for temporary membership for the day is only applicable at our lake and no others Scoop. :-))
-
By chance I happen to have my houshold insurance in front of me. Under the Occupiers Personal and Employers Liability section (£2,000,000 limit) there is an exclusion which amoungst other things says, we will not cover you for boats and craft designed to be used on or in the water, other than:
- those propelled by oars or paddles
- pedestrian controlled toys or models
There is therefore affiirmative cover for model boats to the tune of £2m third party liability!
If anyone looks at their houshold policies they will see similar language. There is also similar bits throughout the policy but qualified with "other than" again confiming the third party liability section will respond to a model boat accident.
There does not appear to be any other qualifying language so in the absence of any, or any specific exclusion there is full cover for any model boat for free. :-) :-) :-)
Enjoy, Geoff
-
£2m may not be enough for official purposes, Councils usually require more. Personally I get mine via the MPBA, it's not really expensive and gives peace of mind.
Colin
-
If you exhibit in schools or other council buildings such as the Brighton Centre I am sure that a minimum of £5,000,000 third party liability cover is required. I would imagine it is the same for other exhibition centres such as Warwick, Blackpool etc.
Alan
-
I am also a member of the Southend Model Power Boat club and with that come insurance (not certain what limit of hand but suspect £5m) but my point was we already have insurance for our hobby under our buildings/cotents insurance to typically £2m. Whilst I agree it may not be enough for official purposes it is probably enough for all reasonable circumstances.
Interestingly as I have dual insurance it may complcate a pay out!!
All good fun
Geoff
-
I have duel insurance being a member of two clubs, I don't see this as a problem, if I had a claim made against me just use one of the insurances. There should be no need to mention both.
Alan
-
I have duel insurance being a member of two clubs, I don't see this as a problem, if I had a claim made against me just use one of the insurances. There should be no need to mention both.
Alan
There is invariably a clause in any claim form which asks if your claim is covered by any other insurance. If you do not answer this correctly your claim may, of course, be disallowed if the truth later comes out.
I would be concerned that having two insurance policies covering the same risk and not making each company aware of the fact laid you open to the charge of trying to defraud the companies by preparing to claim twice. And, of course, as mentioned above, there might indeed be a 'duel' between the insurance companies if a claim ever needed to be settled.
I can imagine one company saying that, with two policies, the companies should split the costs 50:50, while the other company might say that the accident occurred on 'X' club's pond, so 'X' should pay. Surely better to sort this out beforehand....?
-
Dodgy Geezer, I understand where you are coming from. As a member of two clubs, I have two insurance policies, the thing is in my case that both clubs use the same insurance. As regarding which water you are using, if you are doing an exhibition or out at a show who's water is it? How do I sort this out beforehand?
Alan
-
go to any show, all exibeters have 2 insurance.
1 the shows public liability insurance.
2 you own public liability insurance.
John
-
Why is it that the show organisers don't cover the models exhibited?
-
Why is it that the show organisers don't cover the models exhibited?
Depending on the terms of the policy, the organisers could be liable for damage caused by themselves or their agents. I'm told that there was a claim some while ago against the MPBA when the people running an event knocked a model off a table.
As always, the answer is in the small print and not all policies are the same.
Colin
-
As regarding which water you are using, if you are doing an exhibition or out at a show who's water is it? How do I sort this out beforehand?
I suspect there is no burden on YOU to sort it. The only point I was making was that you should inform the insurance companies explicitly about the situation. Then the problem becomes theirs to sort.
Sorting problems is a bureaucratic issue. If the insurance companies can throw it at you they will happily sit around for years, because they will have no incentive to get it sorted. If you throw the problem at them by pointing out a possible issue then it turns into their interest to sort it, and I expect that they will do so very quickly....
-
One point about the whole insurance con comes to mind. <*<
The insurance companies are out to make as much money as possible for as minimal a risk as they possibly can. They will put in so many exclusions and clauses in a policy that makes the whole policy almost impervious to risk. O0 O0
The result of this is to make huge profits without actually providing cover that Joe Public can depend on, there is usually a "get-out" clause or a technicality that enables the company to wriggle out of paying anything. <*< <*< <*<
Can anyone state facts about a claim that was paid out immediately and without hassle from the insurer ????
I doubt if I will get any takers on that question. >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-(
Rant over. %% %%
-
Can anyone state facts about a claim that was paid out immediately and without hassle from the insurer ????
I had to claim on my HSBC travel insurance for a doctor's bill in Madeira last year - they paid out immediately without question on the documenation I submitted.
However, it is certainly true that many insurers do quibble or reject claims on the thinnest grounds. But often they are the companies who give the lowest quotes. That is why I'm always a bit suspicious when people claim to have got really low quotes for motor insurance etc. The proof of the pudding comes when you make a claim.
It should also not be forgotten that a lot of otherwise honest citizens see insurance companies as fair game and see nothing wrong in making inflated or spurious claims. It's war out there!
Colin
-
I work for a car body shop, we regularly deal with 20 to 30 insurance claims a week. Whilst some are difficult, around 75% go through without any problems & are paid out on time. The biggest problem seems to be people going for the cheapest insurance they can get & not reading their policies to find out what they are exactly covered for, after all you rarely get something for nothing these days.
That said, when it goes wrong, it takes a life time to sort it out, our record is 4 years to get paid out !!
cheers Glenn