Model Boat Mayhem

Mess Deck: General Section => Model Boating => Topic started by: Reade Models on July 20, 2008, 08:08:38 am

Title: Here's a photograph I found earlier..(MTB)
Post by: Reade Models on July 20, 2008, 08:08:38 am
Going through a couple of old books, I found this photograph.  May be of interest?

The original is 10" x 8" and you can see a lot of detail by zooming in to it.  If anybody wants a copy by E-mail, please PM me (original file size is around 860KB)

Malc

Title: Re: Here's a photograph I found earlier..(MTB)
Post by: Reade Models on July 20, 2008, 09:34:56 am


Sorry, I should have made it clear that this is an original photograph, not one of the pictures in the book.

Malc

Title: Re: Here's a photograph I found earlier..(MTB)
Post by: ando on August 08, 2008, 10:34:14 pm
hello      nice picture      :)    thankyou for shareing it with us  :)
Title: Re: Here's a photograph I found earlier..(MTB)
Post by: Ow Abreast on August 08, 2008, 11:08:59 pm
Don't ever 'copy' other peoples work it's simply not fair,would you be happy if someone copied your work? i think not! its seems to be ok  on this forum to copy lets say a cd or pass on a plan that another person has worked hard to create,copying is wrong lets not have any double standards!!
Title: Re: Here's a photograph I found earlier..(MTB)
Post by: warspite on August 08, 2008, 11:25:54 pm
looks like a modified third series 73ft, only two tubes and a more modern cannon up front.
Title: Re: Here's a photograph I found earlier..(MTB)
Post by: Reade Models on August 08, 2008, 11:39:51 pm


Ow Abreast

What on earth gave you the idea that this was copying someone else's work?  It's an original 10inch x 8 inch photograph - possibly/probably taken by my father?  I suspect that I may also have the negative for it too?

Malc



Title: Re: Here's a photograph I found earlier..(MTB)
Post by: Peter Fitness on August 08, 2008, 11:58:54 pm
Don't ever 'copy' other peoples work it's simply not fair,would you be happy if someone copied your work? i think not! its seems to be ok  on this forum to copy lets say a cd or pass on a plan that another person has worked hard to create,copying is wrong lets not have any double standards!!

Ow Abreast, Malc made it quite clear in his second post that the photo was an original, so your comment was unnecessary.

Peter.
Title: Re: Here's a photograph I found earlier..(MTB)
Post by: Bunkerbarge on August 09, 2008, 03:05:43 am
Don't ever 'copy' other peoples work it's simply not fair,would you be happy if someone copied your work? i think not! its seems to be ok  on this forum to copy lets say a cd or pass on a plan that another person has worked hard to create,copying is wrong lets not have any double standards!!

I think we have to be careful to keep things in context here and suggesting that it "seems" to be OK to copy CD's and plans is simply not true.  This forum does not in any way condone breaching any copyright laws and I am certain that I speak for the vast majority of our membership who do not support such things.

Let us not forget though that there are a considerable number of plans and literature that are in the public domain and can be perfectly legally copied and shared.  There are many plans given away free with monthly publications that may be copied, as long as they are not sold.

I think Reade Models made it perfectly clear that the picture in question was ligitimately owned by them and they were very generous enough to allow members to take copies.

I think we should recognise the efforts showed to share a superb picture with fellow members who appreciate such things and not spoil the gesture with wild and inaccurate accusations.
Title: Re: Here's a photograph I found earlier..(MTB)
Post by: Reade Models on August 09, 2008, 06:35:07 am
Just to prove that I do hold the original photograph, here's one I took earlier.  Sorry about the quality, it was still dark then, and it was taken before I had put my makeup on.  {-) {-)
Malc
Title: Re: Here's a photograph I found earlier..(MTB)
Post by: Roger in France on August 09, 2008, 06:56:12 am
Oh, Malcolm, you look younger every day! But I still had to make up a mask for your post before I dared look at the photograph you are holding.   8)

Roger in France.
Title: Re: Here's a photograph I found earlier..(MTB)
Post by: Reade Models on August 09, 2008, 07:21:38 am

Quote
Oh, Malcolm, you look younger every day!

Roger, thank you for your kind words.  It cannot be denied.

Malc

Title: Re: Here's a photograph I found earlier..(MTB)
Post by: barryfoote on August 09, 2008, 08:27:46 am
Don't ever 'copy' other peoples work it's simply not fair,would you be happy if someone copied your work? i think not! its seems to be ok  on this forum to copy lets say a cd or pass on a plan that another person has worked hard to create,copying is wrong lets not have any double standards!!

I think we have to be careful to keep things in context here and suggesting that it "seems" to be OK to copy CD's and plans is simply not true.  This forum does not in any way condone breaching any copyright laws and I am certain that I speak for the vast majority of our membership who do not support such things.

Let us not forget though that there are a considerable number of plans and literature that are in the public domain and can be perfectly legally copied and shared.  There are many plans given away free with monthly publications that may be copied, as long as they are not sold.

I think Reade Models made it perfectly clear that the picture in question was ligitimately owned by them and they were very generous enough to allow members to take copies.

I think we should recognise the efforts showed to share a superb picture with fellow members who appreciate such things and not spoil the gesture with wild and inaccurate accusations.

Very well said Bunkerbarge. Totally agree.
Title: Re: Here's a photograph I found earlier..(MTB)
Post by: Martin (Admin) on August 09, 2008, 09:20:56 am
The photos real, I think Malc is a copy!  {-)

Anyone tell me a bit more about the boat?
Title: Re: Here's a photograph I found earlier..(MTB)
Post by: Stavros on August 09, 2008, 12:21:25 pm
Well Malc you could have smiled   ;)

Stavros
Title: Re: Here's a photograph I found earlier..(MTB)
Post by: BlazingPenguin on August 09, 2008, 12:23:14 pm
Our renditions of some boats...................now THATS wild & inaccurate!  {-)
Title: Re: Here's a photograph I found earlier..(MTB)
Post by: RickF on August 09, 2008, 04:03:06 pm
Kingston make a hull for 523

http://www.westbourne-model.co.uk/kingston-mouldings-hull-mouldings.htm

1945 Vosper MTB 523
 These are scale models of two different boats, representing early and late examples from the WW2 period. One is No. 523, a heavily armed 73 foot Type 2 MTB from 1944/5......
....  together with some rare wartime photos that were supplied by Vosper themselves from their archives.....The first photo is a wartime shot of 523 at speed while still in Vosper's hands


Is this the photo in question - it certainly looks newly painted?

Rick
Title: Re: Here's a photograph I found earlier..(MTB)
Post by: Reade Models on August 09, 2008, 08:25:20 pm

Hi RickF

I had no idea that the photograph was that old?

I do have some others somewhere, I must try to find them.  I think there are four or five altogether?  Do you think that these are likely to be Vosper's own photographs?  My dad had them at home for as long as I can remember, they came to us with all of the other paperwork and catalogues when we took the model business over from him.

One of the catalogues is fascinating, it's a hard back volume of Simpson-Lawrence Ltd of Glasgow ship's chandlery and fittings products.  It's fully illustrated, but the pages are quite yellowed now and I'm guessing that it dates from the 1930's?  All of the fittings are priced in Pounds, Shillings and Pence - typically, an eight inch cowl vent (up to 40inches high) cost £5.17.6

I would have posted some of the contents on the Forum for interest, but after what happened earlier on this thread, I'm not going to bother...

Malc



Title: Re: Here's a photograph I found earlier..(MTB)
Post by: DickyD on August 09, 2008, 08:52:24 pm
Oh come on Malc don't let one stroppy git spoil it for the rest of us.

Publish and be damned O0
Title: Re: Here's a photograph I found earlier..(MTB)
Post by: Arrow5 on August 09, 2008, 09:09:01 pm
Simpson-Lawrence Ltd. are still in business today.
Title: Re: Here's a photograph I found earlier..(MTB)
Post by: Reade Models on August 09, 2008, 09:19:31 pm

Hi DickyD

As arrow5 says, Simpson-Lawrence are still in business and I'd hate to upset them.  If the catalogue is as old as I believe it to be, it's probably out of copyright and being a catalogue is probably in the public domain anyway?

I'll write to Simpson-Lawrence and see if I can get permission to reproduce extracts from the catalogue on the Forum.  If I can get permission, I'll publish that, and the catalogue extracts on a new thread.

Regards, Malc

Title: Re: Here's a photograph I found earlier..(MTB)
Post by: Bunkerbarge on August 09, 2008, 09:24:31 pm
Malc, I think that is the perfect solution and should satisfy everyone.  Many thanks for going to all this trouble to show us what will almost certainly be a very intresting item.
Title: Re: Here's a photograph I found earlier..(MTB)
Post by: DickyD on August 09, 2008, 09:43:22 pm
Malc
There are loads of their old catalogues for sale on the net by book companies.

Don't bother to contact them on their e'mail as the postmaster chucks them straight back.

Hope you can sort something out. O0
Title: Re: Here's a photograph I found earlier..(MTB)
Post by: Reade Models on August 09, 2008, 09:53:27 pm

Hi DickyD

So what do I do if my E-mail is thrown back?  Do I assume that they're not interested/bothered and publish extracts anyway?  Give me a clue?

Malc



Title: Re: Here's a photograph I found earlier..(MTB)
Post by: Bunkerbarge on August 09, 2008, 09:55:14 pm
If the company are still in existance give them a quick ring.
Title: Re: Here's a photograph I found earlier..(MTB)
Post by: DickyD on August 09, 2008, 10:04:32 pm
Gosh, yes,telephone, now where is mine ?

Good idea Richard, how does that sound Malc ? :-\
Title: Re: Here's a photograph I found earlier..(MTB)
Post by: cdsc123 on August 10, 2008, 09:04:15 pm
S-L went out of business years ago, shortly after a merger with Sowester. Lewmar currently market S-L windlasses so perhaps this is what Arrow was referring to?
The photo of MTB523 is one of a series of promo shots issued by Vosper (now VTL Ltd) and it has been very widely used in numerous publications in the intervening 63 years. I'm sure they'd have no problem with it appearing here.
Title: Re: Here's a photograph I found earlier..(MTB)
Post by: warspite on August 10, 2008, 09:17:29 pm
The type two - is that after the type modelled by airfix, that has 4 tubes and a twin 20mm cannon, the picture appears to have two tubes but a more modern forward gun?
Title: Re: Here's a photograph I found earlier..(MTB)
Post by: John W E on August 10, 2008, 09:41:30 pm
Hi all



MTB 523 was a vosper 73 ft MTB,completed in july 1945 the first contract type 11boat .Displacing 49 tons ,she was powered by three Packard engines giving her a top speed of 40 knots she was armed with a 6 pounder forward ,machine guns, oerlikons and two 18 inch torpedo tubes. She had type 268 radar (ppi type ) on her mast .she was renumbered MTB1023 but was lost in an explosion at Aarhus on 17 May 1953

aye

john e

bluebird
Title: Re: Here's a photograph I found earlier..(MTB)
Post by: cdsc123 on August 10, 2008, 10:00:10 pm
Hi Warspite
The photo shows MTB 523 on builders trials, she was a 73ft type II as you say. The 73ft type I is what you find in an Airfix kit (and jolly good it is too).
The type I was the logical follow-on from the previous 70ft boats, which had gained gun armament and electronic aids during refits as the war wore on.
Thus the type I boats were quite well armed as built, in addition to 4 18" torpedos (as opposed to the far larger and heavier pair of 21" used by the 70-footers) they had a powerful twin 20mm Oerlikon on a MKIX mounting with bandstand forward and two twin gas operated .303 Vickers MGs on each aft tube. The boats of this design were MTBs 379 (the prototype) and MTBs 380-395. The contract for the type II boats was awarded at a time when there were fewer worthy torpedo targets and so the forward tubes were ditched in order to save weight so that the mighty 6-pounder quick-firing MKIIA gun on a power operated MKVII mount could be fitted forward. The 20mm set-up was moved aft, on a MKXII mounting. Unfortunately none of these boats saw WWII service, as they would certainly have been the most effective Vosper short-boats of the war. They did however continue to serve in the RN for a number of years in a number of roles.    
Title: Re: Here's a photograph I found earlier..(MTB)
Post by: Eric65 on August 10, 2008, 10:33:38 pm
Here is the Airfix model, for comparison.....built some years ago!!

(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb5/gregsdad/P8100002.jpg)

(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb5/gregsdad/P8100003.jpg)
Title: Re: Here's a photograph I found earlier..(MTB)
Post by: warspite on August 11, 2008, 12:14:08 am
as a child i built one and the german 's' boat, only the original 's'boat survives, although i have another that needs a refit (to slow and power hungry), the new build is for two airfix vospers hence my attempts at selecting the running gear.
Title: Re: Here's a photograph I found earlier..(MTB)
Post by: Reade Models on August 11, 2008, 06:56:59 am
Quote
S-L went out of business years ago


I did write to what I thought was Simpson-Lawrence to ask for permission to reproduce parts of the catalogue on the Forum, but after cdsc123's post I checked again and find that the company that located on the internet and wrote to was actually S-L Spares Ltd. - not the same company.

On the basis that the catalogue that I have is very old, and although undated would in all likeyhood be out of copyright by now anyway under the 70 year rule, that a catalogue by it's very nature would be in the public domain, and that the original publisher, Simpson-Lawrence Limited no longer exists (having checked with Companies House - Confirmed, Simpson-Lawrence Limited does not exist).

Also that the display of content of the catalogue on the Forum would be of historical interest only and wouldn't advantage anybody financially or be for pecuniary gain, I think it wouldn't be unreasonable for me to scan some of the content and post it on a new thread?

If anybody objects to this proposal, please state those objections here and I will take note of them before making a final decision.  Martin's input would also be appreciated.

Regards, Malc
Title: Re: Here's a photograph I found earlier..(MTB)
Post by: RickF on August 11, 2008, 09:35:29 am
Malc,

On the basis that you are only reproducing part of the catalogue, you are not doing it for gain and you are publishing it to a limited audience, I don't think any reasonable person can object.

Rick
Title: Re: Here's a photograph I found earlier..(MTB)
Post by: Reade Models on August 11, 2008, 08:25:48 pm

Thanks RickF.

Any other comments chaps?

Malc

Title: Re: Here's a photograph I found earlier..(MTB)
Post by: Bunkerbarge on August 11, 2008, 08:39:53 pm
Yes.....If anyone objects, ignore them!! ::)
Title: Re: Here's a photograph I found earlier..(MTB)
Post by: djrobbo on August 11, 2008, 08:40:26 pm
AS has been said before ...publish and be dammed.....i for one am looking forward to seeing it.......do it malc ...do it !
Title: Re: Here's a photograph I found earlier..(MTB)
Post by: Reade Models on August 11, 2008, 08:46:56 pm

Patience!

I have to try to remember how to get the image sizes down to 256K bytes.

Malc

Title: Re: Here's a photograph I found earlier..(MTB)
Post by: banjo on August 11, 2008, 09:11:18 pm
Don't ever 'copy' other peoples work it's simply not fair,would you be happy if someone copied your work? i think not! its seems to be ok  on this forum to copy lets say a cd or pass on a plan that another person has worked hard to create,copying is wrong lets not have any double standards!!

This Gent jumped onto his high moral horse a bit quick..... Have I missed his dis mount?
Title: Re: Here's a photograph I found earlier..(MTB)
Post by: Reade Models on August 11, 2008, 09:25:47 pm

Hi banjo

I certainly haven't seen it.

Malc

Title: Re: Here's a photograph I found earlier..(MTB)
Post by: banjo on August 11, 2008, 09:54:54 pm
 :)......

'prolly busy teaching his Granny to suck eggs.....
Title: Re: Here's a photograph I found earlier..(MTB)
Post by: Martin (Admin) on August 11, 2008, 10:08:45 pm


I have to try to remember how to get the image sizes down to 256K bytes.

Malc

I use this all the time now...... http://bluefive.pair.com/pixresizer.htm (http://bluefive.pair.com/pixresizer.htm)