Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Model Boating => Topic started by: Reade Models on July 20, 2008, 08:08:38 am
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Going through a couple of old books, I found this photograph. May be of interest?
The original is 10" x 8" and you can see a lot of detail by zooming in to it. If anybody wants a copy by E-mail, please PM me (original file size is around 860KB)
Malc
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Sorry, I should have made it clear that this is an original photograph, not one of the pictures in the book.
Malc
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hello nice picture :) thankyou for shareing it with us :)
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Don't ever 'copy' other peoples work it's simply not fair,would you be happy if someone copied your work? i think not! its seems to be ok on this forum to copy lets say a cd or pass on a plan that another person has worked hard to create,copying is wrong lets not have any double standards!!
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looks like a modified third series 73ft, only two tubes and a more modern cannon up front.
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Ow Abreast
What on earth gave you the idea that this was copying someone else's work? It's an original 10inch x 8 inch photograph - possibly/probably taken by my father? I suspect that I may also have the negative for it too?
Malc
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Don't ever 'copy' other peoples work it's simply not fair,would you be happy if someone copied your work? i think not! its seems to be ok on this forum to copy lets say a cd or pass on a plan that another person has worked hard to create,copying is wrong lets not have any double standards!!
Ow Abreast, Malc made it quite clear in his second post that the photo was an original, so your comment was unnecessary.
Peter.
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Don't ever 'copy' other peoples work it's simply not fair,would you be happy if someone copied your work? i think not! its seems to be ok on this forum to copy lets say a cd or pass on a plan that another person has worked hard to create,copying is wrong lets not have any double standards!!
I think we have to be careful to keep things in context here and suggesting that it "seems" to be OK to copy CD's and plans is simply not true. This forum does not in any way condone breaching any copyright laws and I am certain that I speak for the vast majority of our membership who do not support such things.
Let us not forget though that there are a considerable number of plans and literature that are in the public domain and can be perfectly legally copied and shared. There are many plans given away free with monthly publications that may be copied, as long as they are not sold.
I think Reade Models made it perfectly clear that the picture in question was ligitimately owned by them and they were very generous enough to allow members to take copies.
I think we should recognise the efforts showed to share a superb picture with fellow members who appreciate such things and not spoil the gesture with wild and inaccurate accusations.
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Just to prove that I do hold the original photograph, here's one I took earlier. Sorry about the quality, it was still dark then, and it was taken before I had put my makeup on. {-) {-)
Malc
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Oh, Malcolm, you look younger every day! But I still had to make up a mask for your post before I dared look at the photograph you are holding. 8)
Roger in France.
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Oh, Malcolm, you look younger every day!
Roger, thank you for your kind words. It cannot be denied.
Malc
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Don't ever 'copy' other peoples work it's simply not fair,would you be happy if someone copied your work? i think not! its seems to be ok on this forum to copy lets say a cd or pass on a plan that another person has worked hard to create,copying is wrong lets not have any double standards!!
I think we have to be careful to keep things in context here and suggesting that it "seems" to be OK to copy CD's and plans is simply not true. This forum does not in any way condone breaching any copyright laws and I am certain that I speak for the vast majority of our membership who do not support such things.
Let us not forget though that there are a considerable number of plans and literature that are in the public domain and can be perfectly legally copied and shared. There are many plans given away free with monthly publications that may be copied, as long as they are not sold.
I think Reade Models made it perfectly clear that the picture in question was ligitimately owned by them and they were very generous enough to allow members to take copies.
I think we should recognise the efforts showed to share a superb picture with fellow members who appreciate such things and not spoil the gesture with wild and inaccurate accusations.
Very well said Bunkerbarge. Totally agree.
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The photos real, I think Malc is a copy! {-)
Anyone tell me a bit more about the boat?
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Well Malc you could have smiled ;)
Stavros
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Our renditions of some boats...................now THATS wild & inaccurate! {-)
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Kingston make a hull for 523
http://www.westbourne-model.co.uk/kingston-mouldings-hull-mouldings.htm
1945 Vosper MTB 523
These are scale models of two different boats, representing early and late examples from the WW2 period. One is No. 523, a heavily armed 73 foot Type 2 MTB from 1944/5......
.... together with some rare wartime photos that were supplied by Vosper themselves from their archives.....The first photo is a wartime shot of 523 at speed while still in Vosper's hands
Is this the photo in question - it certainly looks newly painted?
Rick
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Hi RickF
I had no idea that the photograph was that old?
I do have some others somewhere, I must try to find them. I think there are four or five altogether? Do you think that these are likely to be Vosper's own photographs? My dad had them at home for as long as I can remember, they came to us with all of the other paperwork and catalogues when we took the model business over from him.
One of the catalogues is fascinating, it's a hard back volume of Simpson-Lawrence Ltd of Glasgow ship's chandlery and fittings products. It's fully illustrated, but the pages are quite yellowed now and I'm guessing that it dates from the 1930's? All of the fittings are priced in Pounds, Shillings and Pence - typically, an eight inch cowl vent (up to 40inches high) cost £5.17.6
I would have posted some of the contents on the Forum for interest, but after what happened earlier on this thread, I'm not going to bother...
Malc
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Oh come on Malc don't let one stroppy git spoil it for the rest of us.
Publish and be damned O0
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Simpson-Lawrence Ltd. are still in business today.
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Hi DickyD
As arrow5 says, Simpson-Lawrence are still in business and I'd hate to upset them. If the catalogue is as old as I believe it to be, it's probably out of copyright and being a catalogue is probably in the public domain anyway?
I'll write to Simpson-Lawrence and see if I can get permission to reproduce extracts from the catalogue on the Forum. If I can get permission, I'll publish that, and the catalogue extracts on a new thread.
Regards, Malc
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Malc, I think that is the perfect solution and should satisfy everyone. Many thanks for going to all this trouble to show us what will almost certainly be a very intresting item.
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Malc
There are loads of their old catalogues for sale on the net by book companies.
Don't bother to contact them on their e'mail as the postmaster chucks them straight back.
Hope you can sort something out. O0
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Hi DickyD
So what do I do if my E-mail is thrown back? Do I assume that they're not interested/bothered and publish extracts anyway? Give me a clue?
Malc
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If the company are still in existance give them a quick ring.
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Gosh, yes,telephone, now where is mine ?
Good idea Richard, how does that sound Malc ? :-\
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S-L went out of business years ago, shortly after a merger with Sowester. Lewmar currently market S-L windlasses so perhaps this is what Arrow was referring to?
The photo of MTB523 is one of a series of promo shots issued by Vosper (now VTL Ltd) and it has been very widely used in numerous publications in the intervening 63 years. I'm sure they'd have no problem with it appearing here.
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The type two - is that after the type modelled by airfix, that has 4 tubes and a twin 20mm cannon, the picture appears to have two tubes but a more modern forward gun?
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Hi all
MTB 523 was a vosper 73 ft MTB,completed in july 1945 the first contract type 11boat .Displacing 49 tons ,she was powered by three Packard engines giving her a top speed of 40 knots she was armed with a 6 pounder forward ,machine guns, oerlikons and two 18 inch torpedo tubes. She had type 268 radar (ppi type ) on her mast .she was renumbered MTB1023 but was lost in an explosion at Aarhus on 17 May 1953
aye
john e
bluebird
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Hi Warspite
The photo shows MTB 523 on builders trials, she was a 73ft type II as you say. The 73ft type I is what you find in an Airfix kit (and jolly good it is too).
The type I was the logical follow-on from the previous 70ft boats, which had gained gun armament and electronic aids during refits as the war wore on.
Thus the type I boats were quite well armed as built, in addition to 4 18" torpedos (as opposed to the far larger and heavier pair of 21" used by the 70-footers) they had a powerful twin 20mm Oerlikon on a MKIX mounting with bandstand forward and two twin gas operated .303 Vickers MGs on each aft tube. The boats of this design were MTBs 379 (the prototype) and MTBs 380-395. The contract for the type II boats was awarded at a time when there were fewer worthy torpedo targets and so the forward tubes were ditched in order to save weight so that the mighty 6-pounder quick-firing MKIIA gun on a power operated MKVII mount could be fitted forward. The 20mm set-up was moved aft, on a MKXII mounting. Unfortunately none of these boats saw WWII service, as they would certainly have been the most effective Vosper short-boats of the war. They did however continue to serve in the RN for a number of years in a number of roles.
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Here is the Airfix model, for comparison.....built some years ago!!
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb5/gregsdad/P8100002.jpg)
(http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb5/gregsdad/P8100003.jpg)
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as a child i built one and the german 's' boat, only the original 's'boat survives, although i have another that needs a refit (to slow and power hungry), the new build is for two airfix vospers hence my attempts at selecting the running gear.
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S-L went out of business years ago
I did write to what I thought was Simpson-Lawrence to ask for permission to reproduce parts of the catalogue on the Forum, but after cdsc123's post I checked again and find that the company that located on the internet and wrote to was actually S-L Spares Ltd. - not the same company.
On the basis that the catalogue that I have is very old, and although undated would in all likeyhood be out of copyright by now anyway under the 70 year rule, that a catalogue by it's very nature would be in the public domain, and that the original publisher, Simpson-Lawrence Limited no longer exists (having checked with Companies House - Confirmed, Simpson-Lawrence Limited does not exist).
Also that the display of content of the catalogue on the Forum would be of historical interest only and wouldn't advantage anybody financially or be for pecuniary gain, I think it wouldn't be unreasonable for me to scan some of the content and post it on a new thread?
If anybody objects to this proposal, please state those objections here and I will take note of them before making a final decision. Martin's input would also be appreciated.
Regards, Malc
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Malc,
On the basis that you are only reproducing part of the catalogue, you are not doing it for gain and you are publishing it to a limited audience, I don't think any reasonable person can object.
Rick
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Thanks RickF.
Any other comments chaps?
Malc
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Yes.....If anyone objects, ignore them!! ::)
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AS has been said before ...publish and be dammed.....i for one am looking forward to seeing it.......do it malc ...do it !
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Patience!
I have to try to remember how to get the image sizes down to 256K bytes.
Malc
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Don't ever 'copy' other peoples work it's simply not fair,would you be happy if someone copied your work? i think not! its seems to be ok on this forum to copy lets say a cd or pass on a plan that another person has worked hard to create,copying is wrong lets not have any double standards!!
This Gent jumped onto his high moral horse a bit quick..... Have I missed his dis mount?
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Hi banjo
I certainly haven't seen it.
Malc
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:)......
'prolly busy teaching his Granny to suck eggs.....
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I have to try to remember how to get the image sizes down to 256K bytes.
Malc
I use this all the time now...... http://bluefive.pair.com/pixresizer.htm (http://bluefive.pair.com/pixresizer.htm)