Model Boat Mayhem

Mess Deck: General Section => Tugs and Towing => Topic started by: sjoormen on July 01, 2009, 05:17:00 pm

Title: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: sjoormen on July 01, 2009, 05:17:00 pm
Hello
I`ve been looking for plans of steam tugboats few years back and I found plans for two French tugboats:
»Mont Caume« and »Evenos« on this link:
http://www.servicehistorique.sga.defense.gouv.fr/,
 I learned that they were ex German tugboats (I think) in service 1930-64 and their length was 28,5 m
and plans for them are under name Remorqueurs de 600 chevaux.
Because uncle Google doesn't help much and I know no French I need your help with any information where to search for any photos .
Thanks in advance
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: Proteus on July 01, 2009, 05:51:07 pm

I take it you tried this ?


http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?prev=hp&hl=en&js=n&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.servicehistorique.sga.defense.gouv.fr%2F&sl=fr&tl=en&history_state0=

Proteus
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: sjoormen on July 01, 2009, 06:20:26 pm
Thank you, I hope that will help, still every help is welcomed and every link appreciated.
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: DickyD on July 01, 2009, 06:23:49 pm

I take it you tried this ?


http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?prev=hp&hl=en&js=n&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.servicehistorique.sga.defense.gouv.fr%2F&sl=fr&tl=en&history_state0=

Proteus
Wake up Mr Proteus, that link is the one sjoormen put in his first posting. ok2
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: Proteus on July 01, 2009, 07:05:52 pm
 DickyD    Read his post he said he could not read French and Goggle wasn't helping , NOW he can read the site and see if there are any links,

PICK PICK PICK

Proteus
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: DickyD on July 01, 2009, 08:11:35 pm
Beg your pardon, another old moment.  :embarrassed:
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: Xtian29 on July 02, 2009, 08:46:26 am
Hello

There is not a lot of pictures "easy" available for those tugs.

With Marius bar there is one of the Evenos taken in 1952.  http://www.mariusbar-photo.com/catalogue.php?action=view_new&pageCourante=1&choix=ebat&catalogue=fg&PHPSESSID=0b7e0b59c937a296c1ccdeabb6

And 6 for the Mont Caume http://www.mariusbar-photo.com/catalogue.php?action=view_new&pageCourante=2&choix=mbat&catalogue=fg&PHPSESSID=0b7e0b59c937a296c1ccdeabb6

Marius bar is a well known professional photographer / collector / salesman. It's a pity but there is no way to see a piture on the net prior to buying.

A+ Xtian
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: sjoormen on July 02, 2009, 04:20:23 pm
Thank you for information, I will try to contact them and then I will see how it goes
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: Xtian29 on July 02, 2009, 04:32:38 pm
Don't hesitated to contact me by PM if you need assistance

A+ Xtian
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: sjoormen on July 02, 2009, 05:42:12 pm
Thnak you- I will do that, my French is, well as I said: there is none :embarrassed::
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: sjoormen on July 03, 2009, 02:10:34 pm
Although I have no photos yet I started the plug of the hull to see that lines are OK. I like plans from this link- they are very accurate, but some details are missing

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0265.jpg)
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: gondolier88 on July 03, 2009, 07:49:27 pm
Hi Sjoormen,

That will be a beautiful model, what scale have you gone for?

Just wondered what the iron oblong sections are for?

Greg

Ps- what are you powering the tug with?
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: sjoormen on July 03, 2009, 08:11:44 pm
I find it interesting, I hope it will look fine, As I am studying plans it reveals more and more interesting features(and much more details that I thought at first). Those iron things are old cutting tools  I use for weights when gluing things(to fix them in right positions) As for what will power this thing- no idea yet- diameter of propeller is 110mm so probably geared speed 900 BTW: scale is 1:24( to match my other models)
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: gondolier88 on July 03, 2009, 08:35:55 pm
Hi Sjoormen,

Thats an impressive prop!

Would suit a nice steam plant to a 'T'!

What do you intend to do- plank on frame or plug and GRP?

Greg
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: sjoormen on July 04, 2009, 09:54:47 am
Hull will be made of glass and epoxy resin. About steam plant -there is a thought- well I don't know yet- there is question of price, I don't  know -aren't boats with steam plants usually larger. I have very little knowledge about steam, so.. Any idea is welcome.
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: sjoormen on July 06, 2009, 03:52:40 pm
Some progress with plug

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0268.jpg)

It was busy weekend
(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0274.jpg)
I like her lines , but it is quite big and working room is  messy
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: gondolier88 on July 06, 2009, 06:10:06 pm
Hi Sjoormen

Hull will be made of glass and epoxy resin. About steam plant -there is a thought- well I don't know yet- there is question of price, I don't  know -aren't boats with steam plants usually larger. I have very little knowledge about steam, so.. Any idea is welcome.

Before I can advise you I need to know a few things...

1. What are the overall dimensions of the boat?

2. What budget, if any, do you have for a plant?

3. Do you have machining skills and equipment, or would you have to buy a kit, or even a ready built plant?

A plant can be fitted into pretty much any size boat from 25" and longer, it's the beam that really matters, and yours looks like it has plenty!

Greg
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: Xtian29 on July 06, 2009, 10:05:49 pm
Hello

Very nice built Sjoormen  :-))

A+ Xtian
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: sjoormen on July 07, 2009, 02:35:49 pm
Thank you both for replies, I have few questions(again).

Xtian I tried contacted Marius bar but after week there is no answer- is normal for them to take this long(this time of year).

Gondolier boats length is 1118 mm at beam is 265mm, displacement is unknown for now.

About budget , well what ever it takes  ;)( but sometimes built is slowly). I´ ve been looking these plants and they are quite expensive, so I´ ve been thinking maybe it would be best to make heater and boiler at home and to buy engine itself. I have some skills  and some equipment, but about steam itself I know very little, so maybe with some help,.. How much power this kind of boat requires anyway?

And another thing puzzles me :there has been few threads at this forum about riveting and plating, did somebody tried to plate like this? I tried to find some photos but with no luck yet
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: gondolier88 on July 07, 2009, 05:49:21 pm
Hi Sjoormen,


"Gondolier boats length is 1118 mm at beam is 265mm, displacement is unknown for now.

About budget , well what ever it takes  ( but sometimes built is slowly). I´ ve been looking these plants and they are quite expensive, so I´ ve been thinking maybe it would be best to make heater and boiler at home and to buy engine itself. I have some skills  and some equipment, but about steam itself I know very little, so maybe with some help,.. How much power this kind of boat requires anyway?"

In reply- That boat sounds plenty big enough, and by the pics I would say you have enough displacement.

A slowly built steam plant will always be the best- and a well planned one will always work better, and a well working one will always give you more pleasure in return.

First of all you will need a few things to build a boiler- a professional blowtorch or ideally an Oxy-Acetylene set- and know how to use them- you will need a proven design or know how to calculate material stresses to design your own. You will need to posses annealing skills, tapping and threading equipment, and know how to form copper.

Alternatively you can buy boiler kits- so you'll only need soldering equipment.

A burner can also be bought commercially for relatively little cost.

Any engine with a cylinder size of 11mm (3/8") square or bigger will be perfectly suitable- though to give 'scale' appearance and power a twin cylinder engine of 22mm (3/4") square. The bigger the engine you have, the bigger the boiler as it will use more steam.

A typical budget could range from approx' £400 for everything to £2500!!! Depending on what you buy, where you buy it, what you have to do to it once you have got it and of course the quality of the item.

I recommend these links;

www.forest-classics.co.uk- burners gas tanks,, bits and bobs, including a fantastic auto boiler pressure gas regulator- want one of those!

www.stuartmodels.com- you have probably heard of these people- very old and famous company- beautiful engines, many more than suitable for your tug- recommend the D10.

www.maccsteam.com- good quality and quite affordable boilers, gas tanks, burners and fittings.

www.engineersemporium.co.uk- second hand and brand new steam equipment- stock always changing.

www.stationroadsteam.com- as above but generally more comprehensive.

www.steamfittings.co.uk-  clue is in the title- steam fittings galore- everything to finish a plant off.

www.blackgates.co.uk- steam fittings, tools, engine plans, materials and boiler kits.

www.mainsteam.co.uk - fantastic collection of model marine steam equipment.

www.ajreeves.com - everything you could ever wish for and more- their international steam fittings range is pretty good.

www.monohansteammodels.com - fantastic engines- probably the best looking in the hobby- and some good, although rather american looking, steam fittings.

www.miniaturesteammodels.com - still make the wonderful original cheddar ’puffin’ engine- the ’clyde’ osscillator in their range- wonderful engine and really controllable.

See diagram I put together for you- general arrangement of steam plant in a model.

Please keep asking questions- don't be put off by the budget, there is more than one way to skin a cat- search ebay, model engineering magazines, and of course this forum.

Have a search through the steam sections of this forum- there are some very interesting and well built steam plants.

We'll have a model engineer of you yet! :}

Greg


Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: Xtian29 on July 07, 2009, 08:22:31 pm
Hello

Yes in July France is like a closed store or factory ... Only beaches and restaurants are open  %% I will try a call tomorrow

A+ Xtian
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: Xtian29 on July 08, 2009, 08:37:31 am
Hello Sjoormen

I've call Marius Bar today and it's open in july -

The problem they said is that they received more than 200 e-mail every day and they do like a "sorting".

So please send me your request (my personnal adress is in the left enveloppe just under my name) So I will do the request for you in French and I will follow it.

Have a nice day

A+ Xtian
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: sjoormen on July 09, 2009, 05:28:34 pm
Hi

Gondolier, I tried to learn something new about steam plants, How do you know which one is best for ones purpose there are so many, so many types-which is most reliable . How do you calculate needed power?  Just for fun:
http://www.aero-naut.net/index.php?id=634&L=1

Here it states that is for boats 100-200 cm long but 0,038 HP -that is not very much compared with electric motors (unless these boats are very narrow) or I am mistaken?
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: Proteus on July 09, 2009, 06:44:53 pm
I find it interesting, I hope it will look fine, As I am studying plans it reveals more and more interesting features(and much more details that I thought at first). Those iron things are old cutting tools  I use for weights when gluing things(to fix them in right positions) As for what will power this thing- no idea yet- diameter of propeller is 110mm so probably geared speed 900 BTW: scale is 1:24( to match my other models)

if you blow up sections of the plan you have om your pc and print them out , I found a lot of detail you can then put arrows points to things of interest in highlight pen , you end up with lots of squiggles and marks but it stops you forgeting about bits you find .

and the hull is  looking really good

Proteus
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: gondolier88 on July 10, 2009, 06:02:51 pm
Hi Sjoormen,

Gondolier, I tried to learn something new about steam plants, How do you know which one is best for ones purpose there are so many, so many types-which is most reliable . How do you calculate needed power?  Just for fun:
http://www.aero-naut.net/index.php?id=634&L=1

Here it states that is for boats 100-200 cm long but 0,038 HP -that is not very much compared with electric motors (unless these boats are very narrow) or I am mistaken?

Your first lesson in steam has been learned- they don't produce much power- well not horsepower anyway- I'll give you an example in SY Gondola, the boat I work on- she has  twin cylinder 'V' engine- cylinders are 9" X 8"- supplied with steam @ 40psi (2.8bar) on the valvechests (the chambers on each cylinder that control the admission and exhaust steam)  giving a cruising RPM of approx 140-150 RPM and a speed of 6/7 Knots, at this speed the engine produces aprox just 30HP! And that’s a 45ton boat!!!

However if you were to compare the torque to an electric motor- it has the same line of acceleration- ie. no matter what power it's producing, it produces max torque (ie. from 0 RPM to max. RPM) yet a steam engine will produce MORE of it.

This means you can stick a slow revving but big diameter and good pitch propeller on the blunt end- which is after all what the prototype had!

Also- a few people have used those Saito engines in model tugs to good effect- you just have to be careful because although great value and beautifully built- they are on the fragile side of build quality and can't be fed more than 30psi steam pressure- this means it would use more steam than one that could work at steam at say 100psi.

You get what you pay for!

As regards power requirements- there are few engines which come to mind that have power specified by the manufacturer- other than a couple of the Stuart Turner ones- you could always get in touch with the manufacturer- i'm sure they would be more than happy to help.

There is a way to calculate the Horsepower made by a steam engine- this is called the PLAN method;

P- Mean effective pressure working on the pistons. (psi)
L- length of piston travel (Feet) (ie a piston travelling @ 3inch on it's downstroke and 3inch on it's upstroke, completing one full stroke of .5 Feet for every rev of the crankshaft)
A- Area of piston (Sq. Inch)
N- RPM

Then divide by 33,000

PLAN
33,000

Then further divide by around 15 at a generous estimate- this will give you the power minus the inefficiencies of the plant- frictional losses and such, in a full size plant this number  would be far less- 6 or 7, but in a model plant frictional losses are of far greater detriment.

So a working example of a twin cylinder model steam engine- it has two cylinders- each are double acting. Each cylinder is .5 inch wide and a working stroke of .5 inch. The piston, then, has an area of Pi x r so 3.141 x .25 inch gives an area of .7853 inches.

In a model engine working on 100psi steam from the boiler it will typically have a mean effective pressure working on the piston of 20-35psi on its entire stroke, lets for arguments sake call it 30psi. (2 Bar) In a full size plant this figure is normally 50% the value of boiler pressure, so would normally be 50PSI- however scale pipe sizes and tight corners mean that in a model engine losses are much greater.

As we have a stroke of .5 inches, and it is a double acting cylinder- a piston will move 1 inch on one full rev of the shaft while doing work- and at a typical 400 RPM it will travel 33.3 Feet (1 / 12 x 400)

We have to double this figure at the end however as we are talking about a twin cylinder engine.

So our PLAN is thus;

30 (psi) x 33.3 (ft)  x .7853 (sq. inch)  x 400 (rpm)
33,000
/15
X 2

Equals a power of- 1.26Hp theoretically- however, as i've mentioned before the power doesn't really matter, it's the usable torque of the steam engine that is it's real advantage.

So now you know how to calculate your own power, which engine is the most reliable?

Well, you must ALWAYS have a twin cylinder (or more) SIMPLE engine (meaning that as it uses the steam it exhausts away from the engine) this is the complete opposite of COMPOUND (engines which use the steam twice), and TRIPLE EXPANSION engines (which use it three times), in full size even QUADRUPLE EXPANSION (steam expanded four times) engines were made, however it would be difficult to get to work in model sizes.

This is because only one cylinder will be supplied with steam at first and if it is at rest on it’s top or bottom dead centre (TDC or BDC) it WILL NOT start! Not what you want when your prised tug is being blown by the breeze to the other side of the boating pond!

Hope this is of some help. Any more questions and I’ll happily help- I’m quite enjoying teaching a newbie the intricacies of steam. ;)

Greg
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: sjoormen on July 10, 2009, 07:22:22 pm
Thanks for replies guys.
Well Proteus I try to do my best with my hull these days there is lot of puttying and sanding going on.
Plans I am going to use are plotted to scale, and I indeed use them as you suggested. There are lots of details just waiting to forget them ok2.

Gondolier thank for your truly splendid answer I am trying to figure these things out.
So I spent some time at library(after few years, oh I thought I can everything find out on the web) and I found few books (very old but at least general arrangements are described in them) for inspiration I drooled over photos on this link:
http://modelengines.info/
Maybe it will be useful for somebody else too. On few older threads and  of your reply I figured that I need twincylinder doubleacting selfstarting /reversing engine Now I must figure out how much power will propeller require I was looking for something like Aeronaut or Rabboesch propeller with diameter 110 mm, but how do you choose pitch -Rabboesch has 112 mm ( I am asking in case I will have to build propeller as well)
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: gondolier88 on July 10, 2009, 07:53:52 pm
Hi Sjoormen,

A steam prop generally spins at a slower RPM, but due to the torque I mentioned earlier, it also has a bigger pitch- I would say though that on a prop of 110mm, 112mm would be perfect, you could if you want increase it by maybe 10mm or so.

Out of interest, are you going three bladed or four?

On the launch i'm building at the moment i've put a 3 bladed 75mm Raboesch steam prop on- it pulls like a dream, it also spins quite freely- and this is off a twin cylinder oscillator of 11mm bore! I would be tempted to put a four bladed one on the tug, personal preferences of course.

Greg
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: Proteus on July 11, 2009, 01:05:10 am
if you have not bought the prop look at Prop Shop they are cast props and are very acurate they do some nice steam props , they are a bit slow to deal with but if you order handy there is no problem they work well with steam.


Proteus
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: sjoormen on July 13, 2009, 05:51:10 pm
Hi,
Propeller I was thinking about :diameter 110 , four bladed brass ( probably Raboesch - Propshop is good idea I must contact them first) First I must decide what will turn that thing around. Few interesting engines comes to my mind Stuart Puffin or D 10 (I don't know if puffin is strong enough though, anyway I haven't decided yet) I 've been looking Saito Type L or T2 also but I could not find anything about them, so...
Anyway my plug is nearly ready so I will probably know about displacement and room enough to decide.(Or to ask more precisely)

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0281.jpg)
It really doesn't look much like this does it :}
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: gondolier88 on July 13, 2009, 06:14:42 pm
Hi Sjoormen,

Your right in that the stuart oscillator would be right on it's limits- it would be VERY thirsty on steam indeed!

I will always recommend the D10- it's a wonderful engine, it's good looking, has plenty of power and is reasonably efficient- it's just the initial outlay that is hard to swallow- but you won't regret it I promise, and of course having a proper engine would add value to the boat so it wouldn't be dead money- ebay sometimes has some examples on. The ultimate engine would be the Stuart twin launch- just a beautiful engine. Monohan steam models heron is also highly recommended.

You can add SO many details to the right engine to make it a proper engineroom, and this is a lot easier on a slide valve engine than on an oscillating one.

Greg

PS, the plug looks great! Can't wait to see the finished product! :-))
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: gondolier88 on July 13, 2009, 07:52:11 pm
Hi Sjooormen,

Just to drool over and show you what can be done with a little, well ok, a lot of imagination and some D10 castings...! %%

Greg
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: sjoormen on July 15, 2009, 01:52:08 pm
This really is something else." Pimp my steam" comes on my mind :-)) :-))
BTWI started to look for kits and I found this link other day:
http://www.tinypower.com/store2.php?crn=56&rn=318&action=show_detail
Does anybody have any experiences with this or similar kit, though this one does look bit big for my boat {:-{
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: sjoormen on July 21, 2009, 05:05:18 pm
I finally managed to glass the hull. So far it looks OK, but for real assessment I will have to wait few days, and then I will be able to tell something about displacement.
BTW are any problems with epoxy hulls fitted with steam plants ( they are resistant up to 70°C)

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0284.jpg)
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: gondolier88 on July 21, 2009, 07:01:12 pm
Hi,

I hope not, half the steamboats in the SBAGB would be on fire right now!!! :D

As long as there is an air gap between the boiler and the hull you should be fine- I always stick some foil to the bilge under the boiler- if you really think it needs it buy a plumbers heat mat from Plumb Center etc- about 12" X 12" completely fireproof fabric, only a tenner I think.

The hull looks fantastic by the way.

Greg
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: sjoormen on July 21, 2009, 07:49:21 pm
Thanks, accurate made plug really pays off . These days I contacted Stuart models but I haven't got any answer yet so I also contacted tinypower, they are very helpful and they are offering this engine
http://www.tinypower.com/store2.php?crn=56&rn=318&action=show_detail
What do you think? And another thing comes to my mind every part in these engines is probably in imperial units. Nothing wrong with that {:-{, except I have tools all metric.
Anyway I will wait for few days for Stuart to response and then I will see.
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: sjoormen on July 24, 2009, 05:12:02 pm
There is some room in there

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0307.jpg)

I was worried where to put engine and boiler, so I put block and tube approximately sized D-10 and 5" horizontal boiler, and come to conclusion that D-10 is probably to high and my choice would probably 2V-10M which is half of inch lower, ( I must get some more informations about dimensions)

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0308.jpg)
vertical tube is positioned where chimney will be placed.

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0309.jpg)

I have also got her swim. Max displacement I thing is about 18 kg hull itself weights 1kg so there is some 15 kg weight to put in. Well we will see.
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: gondolier88 on July 24, 2009, 05:59:40 pm
Hi Sjoormen,

What a shame- even with the engineroom hatches on the deck- you remember to count the height of those of course?

The tiny power engine looks really tidy- I thought there was a similar engine to the D10 available but couldn't remember where!! Glad you found it- i'm sure it will too have enough power and it looks very tidy indeed- about the height difference- if you compare the two engines the D10 has a thick cast iron soleplate- whereas the 2V-10M hasn't- it being mounted straight onto the engine bearers that would be bonded into the hull- may be worth contacting ST once more and see if they count the soleplate in the overall height.

The hull looks great by the way- youv'e made a really good job.

Keep us posted- it's good to see a well made steamboat in the tug section!

Greg
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: sjoormen on August 28, 2009, 03:05:41 pm
Past month was very slow concerning my build( too much to do at work and around house). But I managed to study few things about steam and I got few plans for them. After plans of Dutch steam society Donar I remodelled engine more or less for for fun but I have one question about slide valve and comparing with piston valve which one is better. Problems with leaking, maintenance, maybe slide valve is easier to repair when leaking?

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/donar.jpg)
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: gondolier88 on August 28, 2009, 04:45:52 pm
Hi,

Good to hear from you- i've been busy myself and not had much time for modelling- however I have just acquired a new lathe so will be building a D10 asap.

Now then- piston valves V slide valves-

Piston valves in full size give the following benefits;

1- More efficient use of steam.
2- Can run at higher RPM.
3- Cant lift off seat

Slidevalves-

1- Very simple to set up
2- Can be balanced to provide pressure on the valve to counterract lift.
3- If not balanced the lift capabilities provide a safety window if water is present.

That design is very impressive- you just need to build it now!! :-))

In models the benefits of one over another are pretty much the same- however the efficiency if pistons are reduced to aforementioned inherent problems involved in model steam plant- and in slide valves- although possible- making them balanced would be a difficult and probably pointless process.

Typically triple expansion engines, and some compounds, a piston valve would be used on the HP valvechest with slidevalves on the IP and LP valvechests.

Greg
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: sjoormen on September 14, 2009, 01:58:42 pm
Thanks for your replay- superb as always :-))

These days I tried to build superstructure , but this as it looks like will be very slow build. I always spent a lot of time studying plans but never as much as these. But it is fun finding something new in those old plans.

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0326.jpg)

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0328.jpg)

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0330.jpg)
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: sjoormen on September 30, 2009, 05:46:51 pm


I have been trying to finish hull. From plans there is visible how plates are covered. I have been searching for photos but since I couldn't found them I ll try to do my best with plans only. Plans show width of plates only, but no length (if someone could help with standart or any other length would make me very happy :) :))
Anyhow here it is:

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/rebra.jpg)

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0343.jpg)

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0342.jpg)
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: sjoormen on October 07, 2009, 04:41:53 pm
Few details I managed to do. I was very anxious to see how it looked so I coloured black( no other available colour at home) it shoves few errors but nothing too dramatic :D. It is no first class like you guys show in yours build, but for first try not bad- especially with all the guessing gong on.  :embarrassed:
Please ignore bin and woodwork, but I had no other place to paint today   %)  :embarrassed: :embarrassed:

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0349.jpg)

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0347.jpg)

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0348.jpg)

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0350.jpg)
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: gondolier88 on October 07, 2009, 05:48:05 pm
Hi Sjoormen,

Looking great- that second one could be full size- you've got the details just right. The 'mistakes' only make it look more real- a little well thought out weathering and they could look like characterful bumps and scrapes acquired in the harbour.

Greg
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: sjoormen on October 16, 2009, 02:57:01 pm
Thanks, I always like your replies very much O0 O0.
I tried to figure the best way to build deck with plastic cards (which I usually don't use, I like wood better).
Deck has very interesting curves, so I tried combining plywood and plastic.
So far no surprises yet, that I will not know until painting is done.
BTW of course I don't know what colour is right so if nobody has better idea I will probably go with dark red/brown.
 It supposed to be steel deck, so,.. Anyway pictures tell much more than my rusty English:

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0375.jpg)

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0376.jpg)






Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: sjoormen on October 22, 2009, 05:42:43 pm
When I glued plastic strips I failed in accuracy so I had some puttying to do. And sanding. And puttying, and,.. well you got the picture. In between I managed to do some openings in the hull.

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0385.jpg)

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0384.jpg)
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: sjoormen on November 04, 2009, 01:56:16 pm
Next step- aligning strips with rivets. I noticed they are much harder to apply to convex curvature of deck than concave curvature of hull. Aligning was -and still is on certain places, well- struggle >:-o >:-o. Next step is placing "pillars"" ( please help me with proper term). I tried few different glues -best proved to be Revell's liquid glue, altough not good I hoped it would be. Those things are very fragile.

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0394.jpg)

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0392.jpg)

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0393.jpg)
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: Voyager on November 04, 2009, 03:46:19 pm
Your doing an outstanding job there, really enjoyable thread to watch!

Keep up the good work  :-))

Voyager
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: marinaru_ro on November 04, 2009, 05:49:12 pm
Will watch this thread with great interest too.Good job!
George
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: sjoormen on November 13, 2009, 02:49:10 pm
Thanks.
 I haven't done much lately. After another look into plans and noticed wrongly made bulwark supports >:-o >:-o
so I decided to made another (very exiting job) and started on deck detailing. It looks like I have reached point where studying requires more time than work itself.
 If I could work at this pace my little pride and joy will be made between March and April
2050

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0400.jpg)

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0399.jpg)

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0398.jpg)

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0397.jpg)

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0396.jpg)
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: sjoormen on November 18, 2009, 05:24:33 pm
Few days back my little joy and pride decided that best place for her would be under the working desk( ground)
 since I was aware that modelboats don't bounce well I decided that best thing to do is stand.
I tried to do ordinary stand, but I couldn't help myself.  And then I felt a bit artistic :}.
Anyway what do you think?

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0401.jpg)

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0402.jpg)

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0403.jpg)

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0404.jpg)
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: Mal X on November 18, 2009, 05:34:13 pm
yea that looks fantastic, i love the rivets on the underside O0
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: gondolier88 on November 18, 2009, 06:20:29 pm
Anything you don't do professionally...???? {-)

Greg
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: Tug-Kenny RIP on November 18, 2009, 06:43:02 pm

Very clever idea. Well done. A little man sitting, eating his sandwiches would set it off.  ok2

ken

Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: sjoormen on November 19, 2009, 01:51:29 pm
Thanks guys I am trying to do my best. I am still learning, you know ;). Good idea that little man. I've been searching figures in 1:24. I wish that I could got few to do few things around boat for me {-).
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: sjoormen on December 05, 2009, 04:53:20 pm
I managed to make some progress. I decided to weather a bit my slipway, I know I could just wait to get dirty :}, but instead I coloured it with black.
I was also interested how details would look like with all those rivets, it is not as bad as I was afraid. With hull nearly done it is time to finish few deck details and then to do superstructure. I also tried few colours on hull and deck , but I haven't decided yet which one to use.
slipway:
(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0409.jpg)

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0410.jpg)
details:
(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0411.jpg)

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0412.jpg)

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0413.jpg)


(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0414.jpg)

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0415.jpg)
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: sjoormen on December 17, 2009, 03:56:28 pm
I started to rebuild superstructure (yes, yes I know it wasn't even finished yet), because it was flawed. I learned few month ago that there is modeller in France that is doing fantastic job with his Evenos. He is building her as she was later in her carrier, as I am sticking to the plans as much as I can. There are some rather interesting differences between the two which will become more apparent when both will be built. And another thing- his boat will be propelled with D-10, while mine, well I don't know just yet.
Anyway link for Evenos:
http://modelisme-naval-radiocommande.aceboard.fr/5522-1905-40320-0-Photos-maquette-Evenos.htm

And few details of mine- I finally figured out riveting with PVA it is much better when mixing glue with microbaloons. Bad thing is only that it dryes faster

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0417.jpg)

new superstructure

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0418.jpg)

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0419.jpg)

Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: cadman17_36 on December 18, 2009, 02:43:33 am
It's Looking great there keep up the good work as for your English it is just fine
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: sjoormen on December 18, 2009, 09:52:55 am
Thanks you are very kind, as for the my English, it has always been -well: so-so and I am very sad because it is not improving as I would like. But to tell you the truth I am sometimes wondering how much your eyes must hurt when you try to read what I wrote. {:-{  I am just glad that is Spell Check option on this forum. {-)
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: Mat_B on December 18, 2009, 11:45:26 pm
hi

just read through your thread :}
your building is great but have to say that the stand makes it for me
so basic but jus adds to the model
i might try that style on my next build

i will enjoy watching the rest of your build

mat ;)
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: sjoormen on December 30, 2009, 11:59:25 am
I have been little busy lately with this superstructure,
I thought at first I could make decent model with rebuilding few things that bothered me,
 but then I decided it will be faster to build new one.
A week ago I started  and here it is. Still lots to do but at least it looks bit better.
 I also opened radio room in case I found some photos of gear that was on boats of these era.
Well enough of the small talk.

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0421.jpg)

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0420.jpg)

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0422.jpg)

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0424.jpg)

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0423.jpg)
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: sjoormen on January 04, 2010, 04:52:42 pm
Well the other day I said to myself it might be good idea to start building few ladders and steps that I need,
and got  bit carried away %%. Huh well, anyway I am posting  this because guys I need some help.
These tugs had these two bowlike "things" on deck that prevents rubbing ropes to the, well, 
 other things on the deck. What bothers me is this, how this "things" are called (so I could Google it up)
and how are they made - are made from tubes or T profile (so I could make them)
and if somebody can appoint me to some photo which shows how those "things" were fixed to the superstructure and deck.
Problem is that I have very little knowledge about tugboats and technology which is bit older than, well me( riveting).
Thanks in advance.

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0425.jpg)
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: marinaru_ro on January 04, 2010, 10:15:14 pm
Great build so far! I call them "guards" or "towing arches" and if i'm not wrong they where made from round profiles(tubes) but i have also seen old tugs with T guards and wood applied on top of them to protect the rope against fricton.
George
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: sjoormen on January 05, 2010, 02:40:32 pm
Thanks for  help. I really like your idea with T profile with wood applied. Now I must just find some photos with guard fixed to deck and I am in business :-)) :-))
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: sjoormen on January 16, 2010, 09:09:40 am
Some improvements of my pride and joy :}. I finally managed to make steps the way I wanted. It took only three or four tries and a lot of nerves but it was worth. ladders were easy comparing steps( It only took two tries because I wanted them improve a bit but at the end I didn't even liked them so I tossed them away %) ) And another things I made are towing arches. I tried round ones as well but they just don't look right.After arches  will be coloured I intend to cover them with wood.


(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0427.jpg)

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0428.jpg)

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0426.jpg)

Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: marinaru_ro on January 16, 2010, 09:34:52 am
Great work! And indeed on old ships the arches where covered in wood to protect the cable.
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: sjoormen on January 16, 2010, 03:57:46 pm
Thanks. As I often said there are lots of great builds on forum that inspires me :-) O0 O0
My next headache: towing hook I know there are few treads on forum how they work, but still,... Without photos I am bit lost so there is lots of Googling going on right now-( If your lines don't work no worries- it is just me :} :})

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/hook.jpg)
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: sjoormen on January 17, 2010, 04:39:34 pm
I always say that I don't want post every tiny bit I make but in this case I simply couldn't resist. I am truly sorry :} :} :}
Here it is. I thought that I would make functional release but in this case I don't want to make too functional :} :}

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0430.jpg)
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: sjoormen on January 24, 2010, 09:40:46 am
Hi.
My   hook   is made of brass, pins are made of steel, tube that holds hook is made of Aluminum rod, bar below hook is of stainless steel.

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0435.jpg)

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0432.jpg)

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0434.jpg)

And few details I made. I don't like telegraph I will probably try do better. On web I found lots of photos of real ones and this just isn't it  :((
http://www.french-antique-dealers.com/antiques-in-france/nautical-antiques_1.html

Lots of stuff here -but what to use in french navy tugboat from 1930??
(.  Binnacle I made is little better altough  it does look bit funny. I made hood of plastic. Few things still missing ( there is so many details to do that I sometimes don't know what to do first :D) :
(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0436.jpg)

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0437.jpg)
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: sjoormen on January 24, 2010, 01:28:34 pm
Today's work- but nothing is glued yet
(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0438.jpg)
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: sjoormen on February 01, 2010, 03:21:30 pm
Few things I managed to do last week. I made new funnel , few fittings are still missing -two tubes ,whistle and ladder altough I made one I don't like it much  because it is not strong enough and I am thinking of building new one. Railing is soldered but there are few curves that gave me  >>:-( >>:-( so,... So I will have to rebuild that part aswell.
Few photos:

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0442.jpg)

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0443.jpg)
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: sjoormen on February 10, 2010, 06:42:23 pm
Although I am bit preoccupied these days with other things I managed to make winch. Hardest part believe or not is to find right sprockets. There aren't much alarm clock around these days. {-)

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0454-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: sjoormen on February 25, 2010, 02:17:59 pm
Few things I am trying to  make this days - rescue boat and few things that goes with it. Not finished yet though.

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0457.jpg)

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0456.jpg)

When I was making boat I forgot few rules, It was too cold to laminate, resin was also few years old so it was not the best it could be done. And last but not least when I was sanding the boat I forgot how small it was and I was very quickly making hole trough the sides(I managed to fix that yesterday but still %) %) )
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: sjoormen on March 01, 2010, 02:24:11 pm
 Few  details ( please ignore the mess on the deck):

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0458.jpg)

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0459.jpg)


(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0460.jpg)
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: sjoormen on March 02, 2010, 05:09:22 pm
Some progress of todays afternoon:

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0462.jpg)

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0463.jpg)
Title: Re: Evenos /Mont Caume
Post by: sjoormen on March 04, 2010, 06:04:26 pm
Comparing with old photo totally different as for lines much better I might say but it is still uneven and with some curves I could simply live without. And it shows lines where I wanted them to be and where are with plans applied. Simply said difference between theory and practise is much greater in practise than in theory

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0465.jpg)

(http://i446.photobucket.com/albums/qq182/sjoormen/IMG_0466.jpg)