Model Boat Mayhem

The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Steam => Topic started by: kusuchi on July 31, 2009, 04:15:06 am

Title: Der Seekadett
Post by: kusuchi on July 31, 2009, 04:15:06 am
My latest acquisition.  A perfect pairing for Topaz.

Marten, Howes & Baylis, 52" steam launch, 'Der Seekadett', with original MH&B Boiler and triple cylinder engine.

Also, an aftermarket steam whistle.


(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo308/rjl3210/S1031518Large.jpg)

(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo308/rjl3210/S1031520Large.jpg)

(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo308/rjl3210/S1031543-1.jpg)

(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo308/rjl3210/S1031546-1.jpg)

(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo308/rjl3210/S1031547-1.jpg)

(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo308/rjl3210/S1031524Large-1.jpg)

(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo308/rjl3210/S1031532-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Der Seekadett
Post by: gondolier88 on July 31, 2009, 07:30:18 am
Just beautiful mate- very lucky guy- can't wait to see them both on the water together...

There is a thread about steam whistles on here somewhere.

Greg
Title: Re: Der Seekadett
Post by: derekwarner on August 01, 2009, 03:26:19 am
Hi kusuchi.........in the Der Seekadett....we see two steam control valves  O0

One engine mounted ...which I assume is FWD><Astern engine speed control...or do I see Maurdsley style reversing gear sets?....which would mean that this first control valve is throttle only
One line mounted just below the boiler gauge....& the control linkage wire is cleverly disguised in a copper tube.......what is this second valve used for?  %%  :o......Derek

BYW....the vessel & the engine look  :-))
Title: Re: Der Seekadett
Post by: kusuchi on August 01, 2009, 04:48:17 am
Hi Derek,

Thanks for your compliments. :-)  I'm extremely pleased with what I can see of her and cannot wait to get her back to the Virgin Islands for closer inspection.

Not sure I fully understand your question, please excuse my ignorance, but I have a feeling it is the same query I had.

There is one engine mounted steam valve that controls the feed to the entire engine.

There are four servos, forward/reverse, throttle, the bowden cable tiller rudder and the aftermarket whistle.


The gas tank and Hemmens attenuator are located under the fore deck egg crate.  Gas in on the port side, out on the starboard.  The steam pressure line runs along the port side of the gas tank to the bottom of the attenuator.

(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo308/rjl3210/S1031560.jpg)



The aftermarket whistle is fed by a steam pipe on the port side of the boiler and controlled by a servo cable, sleeved in a copper pipe on the starboard side of the engine.  The steam valve is located immediately above the engine to the right of the displacement lubricator.

(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo308/rjl3210/S1031532.jpg)


The exhaust steam is routed to the separation tank in the starboard 'coal bunker' next to the engine and onwards across the starboard side of the boiler to the funnel.

(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo308/rjl3210/S1031524Large.jpg)


So what, I asked myself, is in the port side 'coal bunker'?

(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo308/rjl3210/S1031532a.jpg)

Apparently it is the control switch for the RC.  Pull up to turn it on, push down to turn it off.  A definite upgrade to the plastic switch, usually located in the Saloon, which requires the removal of the roof to activate.

Having not yet seen the launch in person I'm working from photographs at present.  Would really appreciate any insights you may have.  It's not always easy purchasing launches from as remote a location as ours.  Luckily I have many friends around the world who go to great lengths to assist me.

As I understand it, she's never been on the water, so I expect I will have some ballast issues to address on arrival.

A short video of the engine running that my associate took when the seller demonstrated it collection:


http://s169.photobucket.com/albums/u238/mc_mc_bucket/Der%20Seekadett/?action=view&current=S1031496.flv
Title: Re: Der Seekadett
Post by: derekwarner on August 01, 2009, 07:30:59 am
As kusuchi says 'the bowden cable ..........and the aftermarket whistle'..........thanks kusuchi ....this explains all

With the gas tank....I see a large round knurled nut a few bends away from the actual connection to the gas tank...I assume this is to allow removal of the gas tank  from the vessel for filling?

Posssibly our colleague 'bogstandard' may comment, but I would be inclinded not to let the engine run to the speed [RPM] UNLOADED as shown in the video clip  ...Derek

Title: Re: Der Seekadett
Post by: kusuchi on August 01, 2009, 03:46:33 pm
As kusuchi says 'the bowden cable ..........and the aftermarket whistle'..........thanks kusuchi ....this explains all

With the gas tank....I see a large round knurled nut a few bends away from the actual connection to the gas tank...I assume this is to allow removal of the gas tank  from the vessel for filling?

Posssibly our colleague 'bogstandard' may comment, but I would be inclinded not to let the engine run to the speed [RPM] UNLOADED as shown in the video clip  ...Derek



That makes me very nervous as well, but the MH&B boilers are so efficient it's hard to avoid.  Very small movements of the transmitter throttle can cause the engine to race.  MSM advised me that the 'Heron' is engineered for this, but I don't know if that's true for other engines.  Would very much like to hear a definitive opinion.

You are absolutely correct about the knurled nut and the gas tank. :-)

Title: Re: Der Seekadett
Post by: kusuchi on August 17, 2009, 03:41:52 am
A short photo montage up to her delivery to the export shippers and craters:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CI-Ld7eTe-4
Title: Re: Der Seekadett
Post by: kusuchi on September 23, 2009, 03:11:11 am
Now in the Virgin Islands.

(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo308/rjl3210/DSC_0079-1.jpg)

(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo308/rjl3210/DSC_0076.jpg)

(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo308/rjl3210/DSC_0014-11.jpg)

(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo308/rjl3210/DSC_0005-18.jpg)

(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo308/rjl3210/DSC_0081-1.jpg)

(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo308/rjl3210/DSC_0039-2.jpg)

(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo308/rjl3210/DSC_0037-4.jpg)

(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo308/rjl3210/DSC_0036-4.jpg)

(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo308/rjl3210/DSC_0075-1.jpg)

(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo308/rjl3210/DSC_0049-1.jpg)

(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo308/rjl3210/DSC_0040-2.jpg)

(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo308/rjl3210/DSC_0012-8.jpg)

(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo308/rjl3210/DSC_0060.jpg)

(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo308/rjl3210/DSC_0063.jpg)

(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo308/rjl3210/DSC_0069-1.jpg)

(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo308/rjl3210/DSC_0071-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Der Seekadett
Post by: Bunkerbarge on September 23, 2009, 10:51:04 am
They do look superb together and you couldn't want for a better background to photograph them in and show them off to thier best.

You must be very pleased with your latest aquisition, particularly with the original steam plant.  I bet you can't wait to see them under steam!
Title: Re: Der Seekadett
Post by: gondolier88 on September 23, 2009, 05:38:15 pm
Just beautiful.

Greg
Title: Re: Der Seekadett
Post by: mogogear on September 24, 2009, 12:26:12 am
That boat is as hypnotizing as ever...especially with that  joyous-son-standing-boat support!!

Congrats Richard
Title: Re: Der Seekadett
Post by: kusuchi on September 24, 2009, 02:16:18 am
Unfortunately, she came with a 40 Mhz receiver and no transmitter.  40 Mhz is illegal in the US, so I have ordered a new transmitter and receiver that are compatible with the servo connectons.  She's never been on the water, so we're now doing ballast tests, and as soon as they arrive she'll be on the water. :-)  Can't wait to see them both under steam together!
Title: Re: Der Seekadett
Post by: kusuchi on October 13, 2009, 02:15:52 am
On the pool yesterday, videos to follow:

(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo308/rjl3210/DSC_0011-12.jpg)

(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo308/rjl3210/DSC_0016-9.jpg)

(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo308/rjl3210/DSC_0017-9.jpg)

(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo308/rjl3210/DSC_0018-6.jpg)

(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo308/rjl3210/DSC_0019-7.jpg)
Title: Re: Der Seekadett
Post by: kusuchi on October 14, 2009, 04:37:25 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpTMIJ7N0bQ


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzPfU1uBXCQ
Title: Re: Der Seekadett
Post by: kno3 on October 16, 2009, 03:58:56 pm
Der Seekadett is the most elegant looking steam launch I've seen!

By the way, it seemed to me, in the movie, that the launch seems somewhat unstable. That could either be a high centre of gravity, or a heavy flywheel/shaft/propeller (looks like it rocks sideways mostly on start/stop) or a combination of both.
Title: Re: Der Seekadett
Post by: Bernhard on October 16, 2009, 05:37:52 pm
hi-...GREAT it is,,,,,,,,,do the gas control work now,,,,,,i did have 3 off them from J,Hemmens,,,,2 off them never works what ever i did,,,so John send me the payment back,,,,he have be making some new ones now,, i think..,,,,

Regards Bernhard
Title: Re: Der Seekadett
Post by: kusuchi on October 17, 2009, 12:07:26 am
Der Seekadett is the most elegant looking steam launch I've seen!

By the way, it seemed to me, in the movie, that the launch seems somewhat unstable. That could either be a high centre of gravity, or a heavy flywheel/shaft/propeller (looks like it rocks sideways mostly on start/stop) or a combination of both.

Thanks Kno, for your generous comments.  We are absolutely smitten with her.  Although we had been eagerly searching for this model for some time, she exceeded our wildest expectations.

The stability issues are entirely associated with the learning curve of handling a vessel with a large propeller, powerful boiler and huge rudder.  By the end of the video you can see that Andrew is finally getting the hang of it.

We were advised of this issue, prior to putting her on the water, by the man himself:

"The rudder has a large area and, at high speed (Your son!!), it needs smooth operation or the boat may twitch and lean over alarmingly. (Don't worry - it won't roll over). But in confined spaces, as in your pool, if you put the rudder hard over and give a kick on the throttle,it will make a tighter turn."

He does, of course, mean a gentle kick.  Any more produces the same undesirable results.

Still haven't got the attenuator working yet, Bernhard, but under advice, are working through more immediate issues, stripping and cleaning the safety valve, ameliorating the excess gas pressure caused by the heat of our climate, etc.   When these adjustments are complete, I'll take a closer look at the attenuator. 


 
 
Title: Re: Der Seekadett
Post by: derekwarner on October 17, 2009, 03:40:35 am
Kusuchi - in the following video I see the pressure gauge rise to 70 PSI....[4.6 Bar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpTMIJ7N0bQ .......there are two issues here

1) safety........is the boiler relief valve set @ 70 PSI? ....is this within the manfactures recommended range?
2) subjecting a 80 PSI gauge to 70 PSI......far exceeds the ISO/DIN recommendations of ??????? 70% of FSD?......................it is suggested ...that exceeding these recommendations....the gauge burdon tube can be deformed & not provide an accurate pressure display at all levels ............... Derek
Title: Re: Der Seekadett
Post by: kusuchi on October 18, 2009, 04:18:28 am
Kusuchi - in the following video I see the pressure gauge rise to 70 PSI....[4.6 Bar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpTMIJ7N0bQ .......there are two issues here

1) safety........is the boiler relief valve set @ 70 PSI? ....is this within the manfactures recommended range?
2) subjecting a 80 PSI gauge to 70 PSI......far exceeds the ISO/DIN recommendations of ??????? 70% of FSD?......................it is suggested ...that exceeding these recommendations....the gauge burdon tube can be deformed & not provide an accurate pressure display at all levels ............... Derek



Hi Derek,

That was the first test run, and whilst we attempted to reduce the boiler pressure using the whistle, we had to cut the run short as neither the safety valve, nor the attenuator seemed to be functioning correctly.  We have since stripped, cleaned and adjusted the safety valve and it now functions correctly, blowing off at the recommended pressure of 60 psi.  Fortunately, there is no damage to the pressure gauge.

Our next consideration is gas pressure.  The propane component of the 80/30 mix is really designed for colder climates.  With our year round heat the pressure generated is greater than is optimal.  This accounts for the hooting noise heard on the pool video.  On that run we turned the gas right down, and although we put it on the water at 55 psi, the pressure rapidly dropped to 40 psi.  The adjustment is so sensitive, however, that it is easy to blow the flame up into the funnel due to excess pressure.  We have been advised to store the canisters in the fridge and extend the steam  exhaust pipe to the top of the funnel in order to alleviate these problems!

Once this is resolved we will address the attenuator.  Bernhard's comments above, however, have not infused me with anticipation of great results.

We have been extremely fortunate, throughout, to have been the recipients of expert diagnosis and advice on all these issues, for which we are extremely grateful.

Best Regards,

 
Title: Re: Der Seekadett
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on October 18, 2009, 05:00:07 am
gas valves can be a pain Cheddar did one of the mechanical ones that worked but was a pain you had to re adjust it each time you had to take the pressure off the diaphragm and spring at the end of each days running so you spent most of the next day sorting it out , the electronic one they did  works faultlessly fit and forget.

peter
Title: Re: Der Seekadett
Post by: gondolier88 on October 18, 2009, 08:26:11 am
Hi Kusuchi,

If you find your still having problems, Stuart Turner do the electronic gas control that cheddar used to do, also Forest Classics do a mechanical one too.

Greg
Title: Re: Der Seekadett
Post by: Bunkerbarge on October 25, 2009, 01:49:24 pm
I struggled with attenuators before giving up and getting a Cheddar electronic one.  Absolutely brilliant and although the Stuart one is quite a bit more expensive than the Cheddar one used to be it is still the best means of controlling the boiler pressure.
Title: Re: Der Seekadett
Post by: steamboatmodel on October 25, 2009, 04:09:21 pm
I struggled with attenuators before giving up and getting a Cheddar electronic one.  Absolutely brilliant and although the Stuart one is quite a bit more expensive than the Cheddar one used to be it is still the best means of controlling the boiler pressure.
Is the Stuart unit any different than the Cheddar unit?
Regards,
Gerald.
Title: Re: Der Seekadett
Post by: kusuchi on January 26, 2010, 03:07:25 am
On the sea Sunday.  The safety valve is now set to blow off at exactly 60 psi.  Refrigerating the gas tank has helped to ameliorate some of the problems caused by the excess vapor pressure in our ambient temperature.

Hopefully my skills with the underwater video camera will improve when I get used to it!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqC3XYo1IeA
Title: Re: Der Seekadett
Post by: andywright on January 26, 2010, 11:43:00 am
what a terrifuic setting, have to try to replicate that setting in the Bristol Channel in the summer :} fat chance!. But joking a side , a lovely boat.
Andy
Title: Re: Der Seekadett
Post by: Underpressure on January 26, 2010, 10:03:39 pm
Come on Andy, fairs fair, we both know that there are palm trees on the edge of the golden sands of Penarth, that the Bristol Channel is a beautiful shade of azure blue, and that it is August all year round.

Neil
Title: Re: Der Seekadett
Post by: sjoormen on October 03, 2010, 06:47:28 pm
This boat is just  :-)) :-)).
I've been searching trough net to find plans of her- are there any available or there is only option to get a kit?
Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Der Seekadett
Post by: Chuffy on October 03, 2010, 07:41:01 pm
sjoormen,

Try an email to Brian Marten at Marten Howes and Balis from their website. he can only say no, or he may be able to sell you just the hull, worth a try.

Chuffy
Title: Re: Der Seekadett
Post by: sjoormen on October 04, 2010, 02:02:00 pm
Good idea, thanks. I will report how it goes. I asked because I think I saw clip on youtube of Seekadett that was somewhat smaller than this one, so I thought that  there maybe some plans somewhere- again that may be freelance built.
Here I found link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-8PaaF54ak
Title: Re: Der Seekadett
Post by: bbjs on October 04, 2010, 03:59:18 pm
Check around in Germany & Switzerland for a GRP Hull only, I've seen it there in a webshop.
If I remember around 1 meter (1:20 scale) long so smaller than the MH&B.

Cheers, Bjorn
Title: Re: Der Seekadett
Post by: Chuffy on October 04, 2010, 04:06:13 pm
Have had a look at the video and the bow seems a little less slanted that the MHB hull, and a tad smaller, any way I've asked the question on youtube. Posted in 2008 but the chap might pick it up, I want to know now!
Title: Re: Der Seekadett
Post by: bbjs on October 04, 2010, 04:12:08 pm
...here:

http://shop.strato.de/epages/61433551.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61433551/Products/Pe0007

...but out of stock (nicht am lager)

Cheers, Bjorn
Title: Re: Der Seekadett
Post by: sjoormen on October 04, 2010, 04:29:19 pm
I just sent emails to both companies -just in case ok2
Thanks for informations guys :-)) :-))
Title: Re: Der Seekadett
Post by: Chuffy on October 04, 2010, 05:12:17 pm
Having looked again at the video the launch there is not the MHB version, the saloon has only five windows in the length the MHB has six and the MHB has a shorter boiler room, in fact there are many differences when you compare them.

Bjorn seems to have hit the nail on the head with the one he found, they look identical, and also a very nice launch.
Title: Re: Der Seekadett
Post by: sjoormen on October 05, 2010, 02:08:42 pm
Got two answers , sadly both negative. Still waiting answer from Marten at Marten Howes and Balis.
For now I checked three sites with your help:
http://shop.strato.de/epages/61433551.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61433551/Products/Pe0007
http://www.pepa-model.com/
and of course:
http://www.model-steam-boats.co.uk/contact_information.htm
Any other ideas, are there any plans for original one, in museum maybe?
Title: Re: Der Seekadett
Post by: Archibald H. on October 05, 2010, 03:40:42 pm
Hi Sjoorman,
I have the hull from GB Modelbau. It is not entirely the same as the one from M H & B.The proportions have been changed to fit a smaller type of steam plant like the 2 Cylinder Steam Plant (Ref: GR1940) from Graupner.  It's been sitting on the shelf for too long now, there's too many projects I'll have to finish first so if you're interested I can let you have it for a small price. I'll even throw in a CD with high resolution tiff-version-plan of the side and top view, and lots of build-pictures.

Cheerz, A!H
Title: Re: Der Seekadett
Post by: sjoormen on October 06, 2010, 03:23:45 pm
Archibald, PM sent.
Title: Re: Der Seekadett
Post by: HS93 (RIP) on October 06, 2010, 06:05:00 pm
Just  ring Brian at MHB he will probabley sell you a hull he will also sell any fittings for one including the brass windows, but they may not be cheap but they are very nice brass fittings.

peter
Title: Re: Der Seekadett
Post by: sjoormen on October 07, 2010, 02:32:01 pm
Yes I contaced MHB and they were very nice, no problems there whatsoever.
Thing is I overspent a bit this year.
Well to tell you all truth: last year I started to build tugboat and here on forum was this guy his nick is Gondolier( name of the sinner as we call it here) {-) who asked innocent question weather I have considered having live steam propulsion.
 And this idea haunts me still, and now I am buying mill so I could start my own plants that will probably not function as I imagine :embarrassed:
and so expenses are growing  little(a lot) out of proportions.
 And that's why I can't afford one of the best looking launches . Yet( ok2)
Another thing I like doing my own hulls, (no I really do). I spent lots of time and you know what that I am finally able to do hull that I want. But without proper plans I am colddead. I mean litterally useless. I tried making my own plans but,...
Title: Re: Der Seekadett
Post by: sjoormen on October 07, 2010, 04:03:22 pm
Ugh I forgot to mention:
Archibald was so kind to offer me his Seekadett of course I'll grab her. :-))