Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Model Boating => Topic started by: neilthebus on November 06, 2006, 08:17:12 pm
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Having read some recent comments about RTR models, I just wanted to put some thoughts down.
I have been a railway modeller for more years than I can remember but I have also had a hankering to do some model boats. I haven't had the courage (or finances) to take on one of the many kits around, superb though they might be.
Last year for my 50th birthday I was bought a Dickie tug and a U.S. Coastguard patrol boat based on a Vosper Thorneycroft design. Then for Christmas my wife bought me the R.N.L.I. r/c model of the Severn. These have broughty me a lot of pleasure.
The Dickie tug was almost immediately stripped down and a rebuild commenced based on some of the Dickie tug re-builds on Mayhem (which by the way is how I discovered Mayhem!!)
The Coastguard ship has died due to water ingress into the crappy underwater motors, one of which has rusted to hell. However this gave me an excuse to strip the model down to its constituent parts with a view to a rebuild and new r/c gear. The basic structure gives plenty of scope for detailing without massive expenditure which is a MAJOR factor for me.
The Severn I love and no doubt at some point this will be re-built and further improved.
For this years birthday I received a Ripmax Carlson. It had no r/c gear but motor was installed. All for 25 quid. Another model that lends itself to detailing and upgrading.
Since I have had these my 15 year old son has bought himself a RTR powerboat and my 13 year old stepson has bought a RTR torpedo boat which he has reapiaited and started to detail.
While established marine modellers may not see these as "proper" models they have given me a lot of pleasure and have potentially brought 3 new people into the marine modelling hobby
Thanks again to Mayhem for a wonderful site
Long may it continue
Neil
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Nothing wrong with RTR - whatever floats your boat , literally! Everyone wants something a little different from the hobby but we are all model boaters of one sort or another. If you are happy then that's all that matters.
It's the same with 1:1 scale boats. people assume you like racing. I hate racing. I like to park up some remote creek and open a bottle of wine under the stars. Takes all sorts. :)
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I agree with all of the above, at the end of the day its the enjoyment we get out of our hobby that counts. But I supose as in all walks of life there are those who like a bit of ' oneupmanship'.
I have both RTR, kits and scratch built modles in my fleet and enjoy all of them.
Daryl
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Everybody has to start somewhere and RTR gets you on the water quickly. You seem, happily, to have had a positive experience. However, some RTR boats are really glorified toys with dubious radio which can lead to disappointment, moving on to disillusionment. These are the one I object to, not the people who buy them but the boats themselves because I think they do the hobby more harm than good. Unfortunately, they are cheap and ubiquitous. No doubt many will find their way into young hands this Christmas; but I don't suppose that will engender a host of new model boaters in future years, when they find that they don't work well when someone else is sailing on the pond.
JMO
Happy boating
Doug
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I agree with Colin,
I Have some RTR type boats kits and scratch built and enjoy them all, what I do not like is some of the RTR types that can only be described a rubbish that are fobbed off as a model boat when they look like nothing and don't even do what they are supposed to do, even some of the shops on Ebay have plastic RTR models that they call whatever and one the other day said he had for sale a Destructor Model Boat, when in fact it is a Sovremenny Destroyer, I sent him an email and has changed his listings....
Roy
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neilthebus , Nice to welcome three new Model Boaters especially as two of you are youngsters
sounds to me that one day you will build a kit and enjoy it.
as the other posts have said its Sad to see a youngster pop down to the water, to see he's/ hers
Model loose control a few yards from the bank or some one Else's radio swamp theres.
which leaves us to tell them its there radio gear is not up to it. some think we are being a bit
snobbish or trying to get rid of them. which is far from the Truth .
enjoy your sailing ..
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I see a lot or cheap toys put on the water here (China) and they work for about two minutes. I am guessing they are not waterproof. There are others where the prop will spin out of the water, but not in it.
Sadley I see some of the slightly better quality ones that cost 9 quid here, for sale on UK websites for 90 quid.
Begs the question as to the true value of the RTR Bismark for 850 quid ::)
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As with anything, in the wrong hands they can be lethal.
I have a few rtr boats and they are ok for the kids and a bit of out of the box fun, but i have been on the receiving end of a husband and wife tag team with an rtr.
The result was a bloody great hole in the side of my boat, not even an apology to begin with.
The only good thing was it was going so fast that the bow was up and it punctured well above the water line just under the gunnel's, any lower my boat would have sunk!
Its good to bring people to the hobby, inexperienced people should be supervised and the older ones should know better.
Still no broken bones, all repaired and back o the water. Cant stay angry for ever!
;D
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Just a bit more on RTR
Nothing wrong with RTR - whatever floats your boat , pinched the quote from an early post
Last Thursday rescue fishing boat is a thunder tiger ready to run the pusher tug doing the rescue is from the free plans that were in one of the model mags a few years back
the bridge was blown off by a freak gust of wind and was saved from sinking by bridge lighting wire
lucky boy. its a nice model to.
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My opinion, for what its worth, any one who disses these RTR models is talkin out of the pompous bottom, anything that can sustain continues interest in the hobby especially the young can only be a good thing. Admit it guys how many of you's have got one of these, I have one but fitted proper RC into it, I do'nt know about you's, but at times I get sick n tied of breaking bits off my proper models when transporting them around the place or getting bump into by other models, I mean one club member accidentally dropped his boat on top of mine when we were dismantling a exhibit at a model show they never seem the same once you start repairing em. At times I just want a care free fun sail and the RTR jobby does the biz on these occasions. I find that the who go off on one when anybody gets near his pride and joy says nowt when he accidentally hits someone else's, every club must have on, you know the one I mean, goes all moody and stomps around the lake on his own. ::)
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nothing wrong with RTR, "my" first boat at the age of 10 was a Nikko Sea Ray Junior. I got this because it looked nice and also dad was taking far too long to finish our Mount Fleet Active! Now I'm the one finishing Active, at the age of 17, in the intermediate 7 years the Nikko broke down completely, it barely drives itself and the steering mech is kaputed. But I learnt a lot about boat handling (which was useful for when I'm on the Thames in Grandads boat) and it was a good encouragement. When I got Willit the Nikko was sidelined (it was dead by then) but I still have it for a rainy day rebuild. Its the uber powerful RTR boats that I like, I had a go on one and found myself wondering! Instant speed and the ability to throw spray with every 180 turn! Fun fun fun. But I'll stick to tugs, they are more docile machines.
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Hi im fairly new to boats having raced cars for years (and still do) but i got a cheap rtr off ebay just as a toy, its ok and was ok for what it cost. But it got me hooked so i spent a bit more and bought my rtr Grey Thuner, as soon as i got this i striped it for spaying, then a full rebuild. Had it out on the water and was pretty good, but as im so addicted to speed it is once again in bits waiting parts from USA for a lot more speed. The joy of this rtr is you can change and upgrade as the budget allows where as the cheaper one i have is pretty restricted to upgrades so this has now just become my rescue boat!
I know from racing cars rtr's can be very good but it all depends on what you get, but for my cars they have always been in kit form but its all about set up etc so as long as you start with one that can be modded etc then i think you should be ok. ;D
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HI, having come to the world of model boating from model r/c tanks ( where it is nearly all RTR, albeit converted ) its a fine way to get on the water. And when all is said and done, not everybody can either afford or has the skill to build from kits or scratch. It takes all sorts to make a really great hobby.
Tony ::) ::) ::)
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for Tug-towing events I purchased the Graupner Southampton, tinkered with it, and now I have a fine handling boat.
my other RTR is a little yacht, that is getting the scale treatment, already has sail numbers. by the time its done, it may well have navigation lights. an Idea for ellsemere port. whether they are working or static im not sure yet, though working would be nice
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Have to agree - am re-doing a Dickie RTR tug as a conversion - static aimed but I might RC it later on. Lots of hacksawing, re-positioning stuff, buying other parts - and I'm happy with it. Will post photos when she's done.
Also bought a Graupner 'Fuchs' off E-bay - no motor or rudder and my first 'real' kit - already planning major re-vamp to make her unique and will then look at installing R/C gear.
If it had not been for RTR I'd never have got this far.
Jonty
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Have to agree - am re-doing a Dickie RTR tug as a conversion - static aimed but I might RC it later on. Lots of hacksawing, re-positioning stuff, buying other parts - and I'm happy with it. Will post photos when she's done.
Also bought a Graupner 'Fuchs' off E-bay - no motor or rudder and my first 'real' kit - already planning major re-vamp to make her unique and will then look at installing R/C gear.
If it had not been for RTR I'd never have got this far.
Jonty
draigie why not go for RC from the outset?
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Can I agree & disgaree in the same thread? ???
Example 1: Some clubs can find themselves awash in RTR's and as a consequence we lose all hope of anything other than whats available 'over the counter'.
Example 2: A visitor to our club had one of the baby severns, but it wasnt really up to the job, but on of those 'Atalantic' tugs and a simple modification to the TX, gave our new member a lift thats hard to describe....He is a stroke victim!
Wednesday and he's down at the pond with three grandsons in tow....needless to say, having the time of their lives!!!
So plus and minus's for RTR's in my book. ;D
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Ghost,
I will - I have a 'Fuchs' that I am going to have a bash at as a starter kit once the RTR is done. I suppose it is about skill and confidence isn't it really? I admire those of you who can - but not all of us are as skilled or talented!
The RTR aspect will introduce people to the hobby as they soon get tired of them and move on - hopefully to small starts and then who knows?
Jonty
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well I did tug towing with my southamton hauling a barge that was as wide as southie was long.
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Ghostie,
Good on you - I am an ex deep sea / offshore AHTS tug man so that's my angle!
I like the 'Southampton' in whatever form it comes in. I know though - I just know - I'd have a pop at superdetailing it and changing it around....get rid of the foredeck ladder to bridge, block the railings in there.....add a winch, maybe raise the for'ad bulkheads......re-paint.......!
Jonty
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Just to jump in on the topic
Im a perfect example of a modeller who bought a RTR model and not so much got bored with it but wanted to make it better hence my baby Severn got a make over with a full build thread on here to boot.
Now moving on from this i have progressed my skills and knowledge via the forum and fellow modelllers alike to venture into kit building which ive found great and am happy to do for the mean time until i venture onto scrath building much later on. ::)
Then of course i certainly look back and think to myself thats where it all started from and i get the Severn out and sail her with just as much enjoyment as my other models.
Basicly RTR models got me hooked and ive never looked back since, modelling is in my funnel for life ::) ;D ;D
Jay
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i've also tweaked her as well for indeoendant control of her motors.
last year i did the same thing and flipped her over, this year was much better
the 3 pics show Southampton pulling out,
making a gate with a Slipway Wyeforce behiond,
parked by said wyeforce as two dickies tugs take the load
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RTR boats are fine as far as they go. The biggest problem is the radio which is often 26mhz - ALL of 26mhz so while the RTR boater sails, everyone else has to get off the water. Speed control is often on or off as well which which combined with the owners lack of experience risks damage to other models.
Mind you if they get people into the hobby then we have to live with this. The biggest problem is when they don't move on beyond simply buying models. I'm a railway modeller and there is a real issue nowadays persuading people to do anything other than "chequebook modelling" since our RTR is so good. If things continue like this there will be no modellers, just adults playing with toys.
The esscence of any craft based hobby like this one, is that people get thier hands dirty and eventually have the pleasure of sailing a model they have created. It doesn't matter what the standard, for me something you have built will always be better than something you have bought no matter how marvelous a model the later is.
Phil
http://philsworkbench.blogspot.com/ (http://philsworkbench.blogspot.com/)
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phil, with clockwork mice, the skill where i see it is in the creation of the scenery, all the mice do is add movement and interst, you see the train follow it and see the scenery, then as you look more into the towns you see more detail.
I may be wrong however!!
as for RTR models, you get what you pay for. pay £39.99 for a yacht from lidl it will need a lot of work to make it something like performing. pay £600 from Graupner you get a fine Smit Rotterdam tug with pretty much everythng. you dont get the enjoyment of building it.
I have a mix of RTR and models in my fleet, and the RTR southampton has had some treatment. I've also changed the rx as well, just hope it sails well after i damaged antenna wire
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I completed my first boat in May this year (A Model Slipway Range Safety Craft) but before that I had purchased a Dickie Tug just to get on the water while I was building. However, I also bought a built Model Slipway Conserver off ebay and used that instead of the Dickie. I have now started tinkering with the Dickie Tug and am in the process of 'converting' it. I think it will make a nice little boat and will post my findings when it is finished and I have sailed it a few times.
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I completed my first boat in May this year (A Model Slipway Range Safety Craft) but before that I had purchased a Dickie Tug just to get on the water while I was building. However, I also bought a built Model Slipway Conserver off ebay and used that instead of the Dickie. I have now started tinkering with the Dickie Tug and am in the process of 'converting' it. I think it will make a nice little boat and will post my findings when it is finished and I have sailed it a few times.
why not do a build log?
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Not a bad idea, I might just do that. Thank you.
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also when you strip the dickie down do a 10 stage how-to about how to get inside the boat. like the southampton, it probably has hidden screws.
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phil, with clockwork mice, the skill where i see it is in the creation of the scenery, all the mice do is add movement and interst, you see the train follow it and see the scenery, then as you look more into the towns you see more detail.
I may be wrong however!!
as for RTR models, you get what you pay for. pay £39.99 for a yacht from lidl it will need a lot of work to make it something like performing. pay £600 from Graupner you get a fine Smit Rotterdam tug with pretty much everythng. you dont get the enjoyment of building it.
No, there are plenty of us who like building the mice themselves - see http://www.pagenumberone.co.uk/layouts/hospital/stock.htm (http://www.pagenumberone.co.uk/layouts/hospital/stock.htm) in fact most railway modellers are far more interested in the locomotives than anything around them. A pity in my opinion but there it is.
I also appreciate that you get what you pay for . A couple of hundred quid will get you a very nice fishing boat with xtal controlled radio. I'm sure £600 gets something really nice. However most RTR is the 20 quid boat from Howes or the yacht from Lidl. Both of these will need everyone else off the water to avoid radio interferance.
What we need to do is work out how to get someone from the Lidl boat to building a simple kit such as the Robbie Dollie or something from George Turner. Trouble is that by the time you have bought all the bits the cost is the thick end of £100 and you still have to put the thing together. At that point the newbie decides that a few more Lidl boats are more appealing. Of course he/she doen't know how well a boat can perform, they think that what they have is as good as it gets.
The upshot is that the number of boat builders drops and the hobby moves nearer the cleche of middle age men playing with toys.
Hopefully the numbers with a mixed fleet will stay the same but I'm not hopeful when it's cheaper to let Mr Chinese man do the building for you.
Phil
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I'm static building a Dickie that I have savaged - will post when it's done. It did get me interested enough to take a 'Fuchs' off e-bay which I will get on the water (when I have time) so RTR introduced me to the hobby. The 'Dickie' is rough - my first boat that is teaching me - but I am proud of what I have achieved with it so far.
Now, next question. Looking for a serious tug kit that is easy to build, requires no skills in Advanced Carpertry, Thermo nuclear electronics etc - but would be satisfying, I have taken a serious look at Aero Naut's 'Torben'. Could - as the literature suggests - a beginner have a go at that one or would it be a waste of money? I like her (as an ex tugman, she has a good look about her!)
These are the things that advance us - I have no doubnt that the 'Torben' would be a challenge - but how much so? Would I have to cut the wheelhouse windows out or is she already cut? What work would be needed apart from painting and wiring her up for RC - speed controller etc. No build website shows that - just adverts for the boat with the tantalising words ' suitable for the beginner'.
That's what is missing in the hobby - quality looking kits that are affordable, easy to build - but will push the individual on to more complex vessels. So, without sounding sarcastic - would the 'Torben' be a suitable first kit and, if so, what skills would be required?
Jonty
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Yes it is a suitable kit for a beginner, and without sounding to smart, as long as you can tie your shoelaces and tell which is your right and left you should not have to much trouble, they do go together well....
Roy
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The benefits of 'RTR' boats depends on the person who is going to own them. If that person is new to the hobby they are certainly one way of getting their feet wet (yes, it was intended). If that 'RTR' person develops an interest, they usually don't stick with the 'RTR' stuff, just not as 'right' as when you do it your self, once the 'new' wears off. Same for planes, cars, whatever. One of those, "You know, if it was this way instead of that way, it'd be better.", thingys. And if the amount of enjoyment the 'RTR' person gets from the 'RTR' stuff is what they are looking for, then what's wrong with that?
I've found that what other people think isn't all that important to me. What I think is! If I enjoy it, am happy with it, then good. Just because I'm easy to please doesn't much matter, does it?
- 'Doc
PS - Also found that sawdust and masking tape make very good bandaids. Cheap too! Just a 'heads up' for those with new power tools/toys like me.
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CBR900,
Thanks for that tip - I can do both but prefer 'port' and 'starboard/ to 'left' and 'right'!
Looks like that's the plan for the end of this summer then.........a 'Torben'!
Jonty