Model Boat Mayhem
Technical, Techniques, Hints, and Tips => Radio Equipment => Topic started by: Scottie on November 22, 2006, 01:38:03 pm
-
I'm thinking of buying one and wondered if anyone has any experience that they'd like to share.
From what I've read they seem to be a good idea from a frequency point ot view but how good are they in reality.
Scottie
-
I spoke to a guy who was using a Spektrum set up in a fast electric at Beale Park. I asked him how he was getting on with the equipment and he was very pleased and recommended it. The Tx module was installed in a Hitec Eclipse Tx.
Alan
-
Thanks Alan,
I am looking at the 6chn Spektrum set rather than the rf modules but since it's the frequency that's the major difference your info is appreciated.
Scottie
-
It might be worth your while to speak to Ken Binks at KBits. He uses the Spektrum gear in his racing yachts and also includes the equipment in his catalogue. His website is:-
http://www.kbits.co.uk/
Alan
-
Thanks again Alan, that's very useful.
I've already ordered a set which should be here within a week or so. I can't wait to play with it.
Scottie
-
Hi Scottie,
Please excuse my reply in advance as this is my first attempt at using the forum. I saw your query and couldnt resist a reply.
I've been using Spektrum 2.4Ghz equipment for just over 12 months now with no glitches. I started with the 3 channel set (Tx looks like its been designed for cars with wheel for steering and trigger for thottle. Nevertheless I got used to it pretty quickly.
I've since bought the 6 channel version but as yet not fitted it to a model. Im holding back at the moment due to concerns raised in a recent issue of MMI regarding the power of the 6 channel unit. Apparently, power output is around 100 mw whilst the current regs in this country for 2.4 ghz equipment is only 10 mw. It was stated in the article that should any accidents occur when using this equipment then any insurance that the user has will be void.
On the up side is the fact that those who must be obeyed in the wireless fraternity are considering raising the limit on 2.4Ghz equipment to 100mw.
This should be agreed by the end of the year I am told. (Watch this space)
Ive also done some load testing of the Spektrum systems and found some startling results.
The 3 channel Tx draws 80ma and the Rx 60ma which seems to be ok but the 6 channel set -
Tx draws 250 ma and the rx 120ma so you'll need some decent cells for your 6 Channel set. Im using 2300ma NiMh cells for my Tx.
I hope this reply has been of some use to you.
Terry. :)
-
Hi Terry and welcome to the forum.
Thanks very much for that, it's very useful indeed.
I've been trying to find out what the power output of the Tx is and haven't been able to. I did read that UK regs only allow 10mw on this band and that they're 'in the process' of bringing it in line with the other bands. I guess I'll just have to careful if I decide to use it prior to the change in regs.
Re power drain... The Rx is actually two receivers (or so I've read) so it's not surprising that it takes twice the current. A quarter amp through the Tx is a bit excessive but I've seen an article about how to reduce the consumption, I wasn't aware of the drain so I didn't bother reading it. Now I'll have to go back and find it again.
Scottie.
-
Hi Scottie,
I wouldnt mind a look at that article myself if you manage to find it.
By the way. The tests I did on the rx's were with no servos connected. I know that there will be a slight increase when they are operating.
Cheers, Terry.
-
Hi Terry,
I found it!
http://www.dimensionengineering.com/appnotes/spektrum_mod/spektrum_mod.htm
All that is required is a change of voltage regulator and it looks simple. Only problem is finding the new regulator without getting one from the US, I've checked Maplin and CPC but neither has the one mentioned in the article.
Scottie.
-
Thanks for that Scottie. I'll give it a try. Ive just ordered 2 of the regulators from U.S.
I'll let you know how things go.
Terry.
-
Please do that Terry, if it is as easy as it looks I'll do my own when I get it.
Scottie
-
It seems they make these 3.3 volt regulators themselves. They are priced at around £8.00 plus shipping. I don't expect we can get them any where else :(
Cheers...Ken
-
Scottie,
I'm using the 'US' version of the DX-6 by Spektrum. So far, I've had no particular problems with it. The only 'problem' is a fairly short transmitter battery life between charges. Not really much of a 'problem', just not as long as other systems I have (if it were that much of a problem I'd change the batteries). The system's range is more than I would normally use so not a 'biggy' for most types of R/C boating. I really like the fact that I don't have to worry about crystals or finding an unused channel. Lots of features I haven't found a use for yet, but then I don't know what most of them do anyway! Not a bad choice of radios for the 'USA', can't say about the 'UK'.
- 'Doc
-
The system's range is more than I would normally use so not a 'biggy' for most types of R/C boating.
Doc
What is the range?
-
tigertiger,
Ive range tested the DX6 up to 200 metres with no loss of signal which is more than ample for my eye-signal.
Terry.
By the way, Scottie,
Had a mail from Dimension eng. to say that regulators on the way. (Soldering iron on stand by).
Terry.
-
Great Terry, please do let me know how it works out.
Scottie
-
Theoretically, what would the range be with 100mw??
-
Tigertiger,
Sorry dont know the answer to that one (I did look for some info on the subject from Spektrum but drew a blank) but the DX6 is designed for the "parkflier" type of model aircraft which I take to mean closer range than the usual model aircraft equipment.
Up to 200 metres will do for me though !!
Terry.
-
Oh happy days,
My new toy just arrived, Spektrum DX6 radio gear. First impressions - looks great, feels good too. I love the tiny Tx aerial.
These are the smallest servos I've ever had my hands on. Now I suppose I'll have to build something small just so they don't look 'lost'.
I've had to 'butcher' the lead on a spare Tx/Rx charger that I had lying around to get the Tx charged up. Why do the yanks have to do everything back to front? Still, the Rx charging cable might come in handy, a nice long piece of three way ribbon cable with a servo socket.
Anyway, I'm very impressed so far. Going to fit it in my Egrete now and give it a try on the pond tomorrow.
Scottie.
-
Scottie where did you buy your DX6 from haven't seen any UK advertising them ?
cheers rats
-
Sussex Model Centre list the Spektrum DX6:-
http://www.sussex-model-centre.co.uk/shopexd.asp?id=21224
Don't know if they have any in stock
Alan
-
Thanks ukengineman They certainly look the business !
-
Scottie where did you buy your DX6 from haven't seen any UK advertising them ?
cheers rats
Imported from US through ebay. Sussex price looks good to me, added VAT and other charges makes it cheaper (without carriage) from them.
Scottie
-
Let us know how you get on Scottie I think im going a bit green with envy !
-
tigertiger,
To be painfully honest, I have no idea what the range is for my DX-6. I've tried it at about 100 yards and it does fine. The advertisements say about '1/2' mile (?) which would be totally wasted for me, can't see the @#$ boat and tell what it's doing at 100 yards much less further.
I'll leave you with this idea. No radio is ever going to be totally 'fool-proof', or interference free, even the 2.4 Ghz thingys. The primary reason I bought the DX-6 is the 'extra' channels and the no crystals thingy. And because the price was right (the biggy!).
- 'Doc
That 'interference free' thingy works both ways, you know. My DX-6 isn't bothered, but if you have one of the 'Bluetooth' 'hands-free' thingys for your phone, or one of the wireless TV thingys for backing up in your car or business, the DX-6 will ruin your whole day - LOL!
-
Hi Scottie,
Glad to hear you've finally got your mits on yer DX-6. I assume your set came with rechargeable cells. Ive been reading a US forum that states that the cells included are only 600ma. As you are aware current drain is 260 ish mA so only expect a couple of hours use.
On the up side, Ive done the mod. to the regulator (see previous posts in this thread for details) on my set.
As you'll see from the photos on this post that it does make a difference.
Things to bear in mind :-
A modification like this will almost certainly make any warranty void. If youre not confident with the modification then STOP now.
2 regulators are available. Make sure you purchase the 3.3 volt type and NOT the 5 volt version.
There are other components close to the regulator and care must be taken not to disturb these.
There is a temptation to fit the new regulator with the writing facing out as with the old regulator. This is not correct as the writing on the new regulator must be facing inwards.
The old regulator's metal back is soldered to the board so a hot iron is required to remove this. I used a 35watt iron just for this task and a smaller iron for the connections.
Finally, just when we thought we had the latest technology, theres now a DX 7. Main differences seem to be:-
7 channel instead of 6 (Obvious)
Greater range designed for larger scale aircraft (Or any other model for that matter)
Good news is that DX 6 receiver (AR6000) is compatable with new DX 7.
Further info from :- http://www.horizonhobby.com/Articles/Article.aspx?ArticleID=1626 (ftp://http://www.horizonhobby.com/Articles/Article.aspx?ArticleID=1626)
Have fun with your new set scottie.
Terry.
-
Thanks for the PM Terry, I missed your last post somehow (Notify failed I think).
Nice to hear you've done the mod without trouble, I'll have to order one of them regs.
A bit more information that might be of interest, especially for sub builders/sailors. There's also a new receiver out BR6000 (I think) - 6 chan but with this one all six channels can be set with fail-safe positions, not just the throttle. There's a US site that's offering FREE swap for your old AR6000, I wonder if they'll do it free for Uk residents (doubt it).
The site is about robots, not aircraft or boats. If interested I'll see if I can find it again.
Scottie
-
Thanks for the info Scottie, but I'm happy with my AR6000 although, it's ideal for a sub skipper.
Have you found any problems with your set ?
Terry.
-
Hi Terry,
No problems as yet but I didn't have time to set it up last weekend. First trial this weekend right after I've tried a new brushless motor in a club 500 type huill. I've given this a trial in the bath and looks like it'll go like stink.
Scottie
-
Just sen the Spektrum 6 Channel in my local model shop.
VERY IMPRESSED, and yes I want one.
Bob
-
What shop did you see it in Bob ? I really want to see one for myself
cheers rats
-
Finally got to make a test of the Spektrum DX6 radio gear.
First, I've been having interference problems with my pusher tug, tried 3 different crystals but couldn't get any improvement, we seem to have a 'dead' spot on our lake but this only affects the tug. So I put the 2.4Ghz system in and gave it a quick run, obsolutely no problems whatsoever. I haven't done a range test yet, the weather was too bad for that.
I am very happy with the new radio, it does exactly what it says on the box.
Scottie.
-
Hi Scottie,
Glad you got to try your set out although if the weather here in the midlands was anything to go by you probably werent out too long.
Its worth sitting down with your set in the workshop and sorting out all the mixing/adjustment options.
Ive finally installed mine set in my lastest model (Slipway's Vliestroom) which has a bow thruster. Using the set I can mix bow thruster with rudder and even switch the mix in and out at will. (Very useful) Also the mix ratio can be altered to suit. All without the use of any extra pieces of kit.
When I first got the set I found that the servos didnt seem to travel as far as other radio sets but this was soon sorted out by setting all channels to 150% throw which actually gave me more travel.
The only problem I found was that the 2 Mtroniks speed controllers didnt recognise the 150% forward signal as the sc switched off when throttle lever moved to full throttle. This was soon sorted out by making full throttle 125%.
All is now ok.
Im just waiting for some decent weather so I can do some ballasting before its maiden voyage in the sping.
Terry.
-
rats
A new little model shop in Stokes Road, Gosport, Hants.
Bob
-
Bob : I know Stokes road well - I seem to of spent half my life in Sultan !
cheers rats
-
can anyone tell me if these Spektrums can only use their own servos - the ones that come with the transmitter seem to be micro size ; whereas the ones that come with the DX7 seem a lot chunkier
cheers rats
-
Rats, my set is driving a standard Futaba S3003 servo without any problems. I haven't loaded the receiver with six of them yet but I can't see any reason why they shouldn't work okay.
Scottie
-
thanks Scottie - just as a matter of interest can you see any advantage in the DX7 over the DX6 other than the extra channel
reading between the lines on their website the DX7 seems to have a greater range (power) , so im not sure if it would be legal over here . It does have better servos and extra channel though and costs about £100 more . Im determined to get one or the other but haven't even seen one - living in the sticks !
cheers rats
-
To be legal in the UK it must have a CE mark US supplied dont have it..Peter
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/radiocomms/ifi/licensing/classes/rlans/technical/ofw311/
-
Thanks for that HS93 I see its still showing a maximum power of 10 mW for 2.4 GZ
-
There are others
http://www.towerhobbies.com/products/futaba/futl8926.htmlradio spectrum sale
http://manuals.hobbico.com/fut/futl8926-fasst-2_4ghz-manual.pdf
It allso shows it can be used in France
I belive Hitec is about to start selling one, and there are allso suposed to be another from Futaba soon Peter
-
Thanks for the comment "...can also be used in France..." I was wondering about that as I have seen none of these radios offered for sale here, as yet.
However, I shall be staying with my Navy F-14 for now as it is such a good and flexible set up with ample opportunities to extend the number of channels.
Roger in France.
-
Hi Guys,
The following quote has been taken from the UKRCC site http://www.ukrcc.org/ (http://www.ukrcc.org/)
News from Ofcom - "The regulations allowing the use of 2.4GHz Wideband Data Transmission Systems at 100mW will come into force on 8th December 2006."
.
This now covers Spektrum DX6 Transmitter. (Prevoiusly max was only 10mW).
Dont know the power output of DX7 but may be greater than 100mW. (Any info would you useful).
Also the earlier post about CE stickers is still valid.
Cheers all, ;)
Terry.
-
Thanks for that info Terry, I'm still trying to find out the output power of the DX7
-
Anyone get one for Chrimbo ? SHMBO is getting me a DX7 in January - cant wait !
-
Just found this link on the Large Model Association web page when looking for something else! It appears that the max power allowed for 2.4 Ghz sets has been raised to 100mW
http://www.largemodelassociation.com/2.4GHz-report.htm
Barrie
-
Hi Guys,
As any owner of a Spektrum 2.4 ghz Tx will tell you, there is a lithium battery hidden away inside the set which will result in the reset of all data within the set, back to the factory defaults once its power has faded to nothing after approx 5 years. According to the manufacturers booklet, this involves returning set to them for battery replacement (currently USA) no doubt at quite a cost.
Whilst modifying the battery connections on my DX6 I decided to locate this battery for future reference as its not obvious where it is.
Photo 1. Remove 6 screws from back plate and remove back of set.
Photo 2 . Remove 4 screws holding top circuit board in place and swing board out of the way. (Note mod. to voltage regulator can be seen as described earlier in this thread)
Photo 3. Remove 4 screws holding lower board in place and lift right hand side gently.
Photo 4 Battery is located under the lower board on right hand side (Can be seen through mirror).
The battery number is CR2032 which cost around £1.00 each.
It should be possible to change the lithium battery and retain data as long as main tx battery is connected as the lithium cell acts as a back up.
Terry.
PS. Ohhhh, Im now a CPO. Never felt a thing. ;D
-
Congratulations, I am glad it was painless. ::)
Richard ;)
-
DX7 arrived today - first impressions looks great but instructions (as expected) totally aircraft orientated , has anyone set one of these up to run a twin screw ? advice greatly appreciated !
cheers rats
-
rats,
Could you be a litlle more specific on what you want the set to do.
Ive managed to mix the bowthruster with rudder using my DX 6 ok.
Terry.
-
DX7 arrived today - first impressions looks great but instructions (as expected) totally aircraft orientated , has anyone set one of these up to run a twin screw ? advice greatly appreciated !
cheers rats
I've set up a mix to run both motors in my pusher from one stick on my DX6. If that's not what you want to do you'll have to be more specific.
Scottie
-
Hi Faraday's Cage and Scottie
what I need to be able to do is use the left stick as port throttle and rudder , right stick as stbd throttle as a normal TX for boats is set up : then also
to be able to mix rudder and throttle such that for example putting rudder hard to port would port port throttle astern and stbd ahead
also I believe there is a way of putting both throttles on say stbd stick at the flick of a switch ?
I dont have a bow thruster on model im working on at moment but will have on next , so would be interested in how you mixed rudder and thruster
cheers rats
-
Hi Rats,
To get both throttles working one one stick is simple, you can use either left or right stick and activate the mix at the press of a button. I use the 'Aileron D/R' button to activate the mix. To set this up you need to enter function mode and follow the manual's instructions to get to the progammabel mix function. Then set chan 3 as master and chan 1 as slave. Set the switch selection to whichever switch you want to use to operate the mix. Set the mixing value to 100% and leave the offset at 0%. That's it, you're done.
I did the more complex mix of two throttles and rudder on one stick on another set but there were some drawbacks which I didn't like. To start with you'll need to take one esc off the throttle channel and put it on the aileron channel. Then turn on the pre-programmed 'Elevon' mixing. This is where the drawback occurs. full travel for either servo can only be acheived with the stick in certain positions. i.e. you won't get both motors to run at full speed with the stick fully forward or fully back. Try the mix first and see how it works with two servos. If you're happy with this then all you need to do is add a programmable mix between the aileron channel and the rudder channel.
If you're worried about possible damage try it out with servos on ALL channels first. If you need any more help... well I'm still here.
Scottie
-
Thanks Scottie wiil have do as you suggest and have a play with it for a few days and let you know how I get on !
cheers rats
-
Where can I buy the DX7 in the UK with a UK warranty and how much will it cost Please?
I want one yesterday :P
Cheers Glyn
-
http://www.sussex-model-centre.co.uk/shopexd.asp?id=21257
Sussex model centre at £242.99 - note that it comes without TX/RX charger or RX batteries, also TX charger needs to be JR type ie. centre negative
the charger that SMC recommend only charges at 60ma - battery pack 1500ma - charge time 30 hours !!
I just changed the leads round on my Robbe Lader 6 - no problem
-
hi guys, iv been readin thro this and havin a good old think, DX-6 or navy f-14 ??? im guessin the f-14 will be easyer to use and all that but is the DX-6 really as good?
also im going to be runnin it with my tito neri which im havin probs with the steerin with 3003 servos not powerful anoth lol so will the DX-6 handle more powerful servos?
sorry about the noob questions, when it comes to digi controlers im lost lol im from portsmouth/southsea n use the conoe lake as its 5 mins from mine :) lucky a lol, as most of you know in the summer its a pain going there with everyone n askin what channels their all useing so DX-6 would be good in that sence :) but hmmm ??? ::)
cheers, dan
-
hi guys, iv been readin thro this and havin a good old think, DX-6 or navy f-14 ??? im guessin the f-14 will be easyer to use and all that but is the DX-6 really as good?
also im going to be runnin it with my tito neri which im havin probs with the steerin with 3003 servos not powerful anoth lol so will the DX-6 handle more powerful servos?
sorry about the noob questions, when it comes to digi controlers im lost lol im from portsmouth/southsea n use the conoe lake as its 5 mins from mine :) lucky a lol, as most of you know in the summer its a pain going there with everyone n askin what channels their all useing so DX-6 would be good in that sence :) but hmmm ??? ::)
cheers, dan
I see you have a Tito Neri, I also have this vessel and I use a Futaba FX18 transmitter which is expandable to the um teenth if you have the dosh, the servo problem I suffered with the 3003's fitted but Westbourn Models sorted out some strong ones (sorry forgot the type) but no more jam overs on my build.
I have mixed the throttles, the ASD units so I can operate on one stick or two depending on switch position and have module in tug to change over from bow to stern winch and anchor to bilge pump.
The problem now is money :'( :'( :'(
If I went for a digi system I'm not sure if the system can be increased like the F14 and the FX18
Richard,
-
Does anyone have any experience with the Futaba 2.4Ghz equipment?
-
i Have To Say I Use My Modified JR/DX6 For Flying But It's A Great All Rounder Even in My Boat Club 3 Members Now Have One And Some Others Plan On Getting Them Aswell
-
The 'biggy' with 'Spektrum' radios is that they don't require crystals, and that they do their own looking around for a free channel. After that, their capabilities are very similar to many other 6 - 7 channel air radios (gee, wonder why?;)). The ability to use 2.4 Ghz for any type model, air/surface, is also nice. The only type model that it doesn't handle well are submarines. The higher frequencies just do not penetrate water as well as the lower frequencies do.
There is a compatibility problem between the DX-6 and DX-7 systems. It has to do with the different signal encoding methods of the two systems. They are compatible in one direction, but not in both directions. That may change in the future, but I doubt it. (Also don't remember which 'direction' is the compatible one, probably the DX-6 can not handle the DX-7 receiver. Do NOT take that as fact!)
Also, please understand that I do have a 'Spektum' radio, and I do like it! They are not 'cure-alls' by any means, but they certainly 'cure' a couple of problem areas for me.
- 'Doc