Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Model Boating => Topic started by: mh110 on December 26, 2009, 03:30:51 pm
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Has anybody ever attempted to build one of these vessels .Have found some backround info but what I need is a set of accurate plans .Had a tour of the net but what is coming back is a bit scant .Any pointers in the right direction would be greatly appreciated .
All the best to everyone
Mark
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The Vikings built loads of em,..in fact one gets built in Orkney every year,then they set it on fire,...a ritual called Up Helly Ya or something similar,..there,is a model that you can get,but i think the hull is only in the region of 700mm long,but if you got sight f the plans then you could have them scaled up,
Wullie
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There is a 3D download available on the net,or you could type in Drakkar model Longship,and see what comes up,
Wullie
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Billings have a kit for Longship
(http://data.robbe-online.net/robbe_pic/P1001/P1001_1-BB0302.jpg)
http://at.robbe-online.net/rims_at.storefront/en (http://at.robbe-online.net/rims_at.storefront/en)
It isn't that big but could be a start :-))
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Would a "Longship" actually have "plans" as such? I doubt it. But the archeologists have unearthed many of them, so perhaps rather than looking at boat or ship sites it might be more productive to contact places like the British Museum, the Science Museum and other establishments that are more historically based rather than the Maritime ones. Just a thought. BY.
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Longships were/are built by 'rules'- longships are only one model of the different hulls that could be built by these rules.
There were around 5/6 sizes of boat- 3 main ones (the scandinavian names escape me now) a one man canoe size vessel that was used for single fjord trips between villages, most rowed, some with a sail. Next there were the 30-40ft single sail 6-8 man rowed vessels that were used for inter-fjord trading etc. Last, but by no means least there were the longships- usually around 70ft in length with around 80 rowing.
The different sizes were all 'scaled' because of the planking 'rules' the 'vikings' (in commas because these rules were used alover scandinavia with slight diferences) used, for example the 40ft boats would use a 7 plank design, flat on the curve with a pronounced 'v' to the bottom of the keel to impeed windage, however, the little fjord boat would only use 5 planks with a flat bottom for skimming over the slate and granite beaches of the fjords.
There are a few surviving ships that could be copied- the 'Ostberg' ship being the best preserved, however experts differ on what this ship was really built for- most seem to say she would never have gone to sea and was purely an elaborate burial for a rich lord, however it follows the same rules so could be scaled to whatever size you wished.
Also, the same shipbuilding techiniques are still used in many scandinavian boatyards, using clincher techniques without frames (some of the only boats that are designed to flex with waves as this allows the ship to sit lower in the water through big waves and keeps the COG lower down) and the same planking shape and sizing techniques that the vikings used- literally the scale calculator used cannot be dated as it's just 'always' existed!!!
Good look, I hope you build a decent sized model as there aren't many around, a cheap boat to build though- all pine!
Greg
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Try these sites
http://www.sjolander.com/viking/plans/
http://vikingships.tripod.com/
http://home.online.no/~joeolavl/viking/index.htm
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Hi
Graupner did a wooden kit of the "Oseberg-Schiff" at 1/48th scale. ( nearly 18" long x a bit over 4" wide). 450 x 100mm.
I have one, complete and unstarted, which has the plans etc with it.
I could get the drawings scanned if you wish. PM me.
cheers
kiwi
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You could research the 'Gokstad Ship' currently preserved/displayed with two other vessels in 'The Viking Ship Museum' in Oslo, Norway. A large kit was available in Blighty many years ago. These boats are amazing but essentially 'clinker built' - the Gokstad was a 'beamy' trading type - their warships were narrower/longer. Many Norwegians enjoy our UK tv and finding/sourcing a Norwegian kit should not be too difficult - but it will be expensive. :((
Our 'Northumbrian Cobles' inshore fishing boats reflect this viking influence in build/design. 8) They are an optimum shallow draught design, easily beached and very seaworthy. They used to be £1000 per foot to build new in the 70's. :-)
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Thanks for the input .A lot of food for thought .Been away on hols sorry for the delay in posting .It could be a case of the best guess syndrome .
Thanks again
Mark
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I'd thoroughly recommend Roar Ege by Billings as a really good model of a small Viking trading vessel, based on the finds of five ships at Roskilde in Denmark in the 50's: these byrdings were better sailers than the longships designed for fighting/troop transport. You could scale the plans up for a great vessel.
I also love Skuldelev 1 (the Roar Ege is a copy of Skuldelev 3 from Roskilde). Skuldelev 1 turned into a reconstruction called the Saga Siglar in the 80s which crossed the Atlantic, later circumnavigated the world (to show it could be done!) and was sunk in a tremendous storm off, I think, Spain when its ballast shifted.
If your heart's set on a drakkar, there are offsets (woohoo!) for the Oseberg ship here (http://www.digitalnorseman.com/vships/oseoffs.html).
Good luck and keep us posted!
Andy
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Just a" by the way" for Wullie, Up Helly Aa is held in Shetland in January each year and a right good heuch it is too!!
You should try to get up here to see for yourself some year, I'm sure you would enjoy it.
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I knew somebody that built one of these, it looked fabulous out of the water, on the water was a different matter, because it has so little freeboard it takes on water easily, with the single large sail if the wind caught the ship from the side it filled up and sunk, if you tried to head into wind the sail took over completely and it went backwards. Have not seen it for a couple of years now, not even certain who owns it now or if it even exists so please don't ask fot photo's as I cannot help.
Alan
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Just a" by the way" for Wullie, Up Helly Aa is held in Shetland in January each year and a right good heuch it is too!!
You should try to get up here to see for yourself some year, I'm sure you would enjoy it.
Some years back I was invited into the building shed in Lerwick and was much impressed (a) by the workmanship being put into something that would shortly be burned and (b) the capacity of the builders for whisky once work had finished for the day. %%
Barry M
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Thanks for that Barry M, you're a very privileged chap - even we Guizers don't get to see "the Galley" until the big day, that's about 890 of us!!
A really well kept secret indeed.
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Perhaps the fact that I supplied the whisky (in the 1980's) had something to do with it? %)
Barry M
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Thats quite possible! Changed days now though, wer'e MUCH better behaved!!
Apologies to mh110, we seem to have gone off his thread a bit !
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A wee bit a Scottish anti-freeze ;) Most of the info/documentaries report excellent sailing characteristics - they can sail very close to the wind and the rear side-mounted streering oar, both easy and effective in use. Controlling a sailing model could be a challenge. :-) Perky
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On re-reading this thread, particularly the bit about planking of the hull, is it possible that the NE Coast coble is a more modern development of the theme? After all, many of us "up here" are descendants of the Norse folk. BY.
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Yes directly descended using the 'rules' I mentioned at the beginning- most cobble boatbuilders knew/lknow exactly what a boat will look like by adding 1/4" at any one place on any one plank. The tunnel sterned ones that have motor power might not stick so close- but don't quote me on that!
Greg
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I was watching an episode o Coast and it showed some viking ships being built :-))
here it is on the iplayerhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00mcwyv (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00mcwyv)
in reply to alan's coment about the model he saw
I may well be way off here but some food for thought...
the original longships have been built using no modern building chemicals (varnish/epoxy and similar)
and each plank was nailed to each other and could flex about in the water (seemingly the secret to the success of these boats)
If we had to make a model the majority of us would glue each plank to another, and then cover in fibreglass.
this would then make the planks alot stiffer and rigid
Could this be the problem in why model versions don't work quite so well and take on water
probably way out but food for thought
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Yes, they could build proper boats from materials that only occured naturally, as such they were in touch with exactly what made good boat- something we've COMPLETELY lost now with aluminium, epoxy, carbon fibre and the ever present GRP.
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Mark
Cos I like a laugh I built one of these as a racing footy :} (as you do)
Being a simple engineer I just enlarged the drawings of the Gokstad ship to the right size and built it
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd159/andrewh_photo/Drak/DSCF2098.jpg)
There is some of a build log at
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1128972&highlight=drakkar
and you are welcome to view my pics and some photos of full size ones in
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1128972&highlight=drakkar
I have enjoyed this beast so much I will build one about twice the size one day
andrew
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ah, just realised!
As everyone has said - the freeboard is low, and there is no way of removing any water which comes over the gunwales, so I have put a transparent "tent" over the whole lot to try and keep water out of the hull
The dragon heads and shields? I'm sure you know that these were removed except for ceremony and terror and stowed under the floor.
(Also footys have to fit in a box with nowt stickng out of the top, so I had to truncate the stem and stern posts)
I was TICKLED to learn that viking ships still are made and used - a Femboring is nothing to do with the WI but means "10 Oars"
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd159/andrewh_photo/Drak/femboring2.jpg)
You might also like
http://s222.photobucket.com/albums/dd159/andrewh_photo/Footys/Drakkar/?start=all
Which has the drawings for several ships , and 2 model plans
andrew
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SKOL Andrew - either a good tight clench all round or it's a Faering end. {-)
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Good to hear from you Andrew - as I dive once again into Medieval Ships and Shipping, which has a pile of info on these "late" but oh-so-Norse vessels!
Andy
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Found this site while I was looking for another vessel, haven't looked at them so I am not sure what quality they are, but anything is worth a look I say.
http://www.freeshipplans.com/free_sail_yatch_plans.html
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Found another free set on....
www.shipmodels.com.ua/eng/models/drawings/index.htm
May work.
Tony
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There,s one on ebay at the moment
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/r-c-Yacht-Sail-boat-VIKING-LONG-BOAT-45-ins-Long_W0QQitemZ200431548676QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN?hash=item2eaaa6b904
Wullie
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When dug up, the Ostberg Ship contained a bailer!
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I knew somebody that built one of these, it looked fabulous out of the water, on the water was a different matter, because it has so little freeboard it takes on water easily, with the single large sail if the wind caught the ship from the side it filled up and sunk, if you tried to head into wind the sail took over completely and it went backwards. Have not seen it for a couple of years now, not even certain who owns it now or if it even exists so please don't ask fot photo's as I cannot help.
Alan
Many years ago my father built a model longship and experienced exactly those problems.
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The
problems issues opportunities I found are:
Symmetry - the whole boat is totally symmetrical so forwards and backwards are equally easy (or difficult)
Sail control - the user, not the servo system :} my sail rotates a little more than 180 degrees and hasn't reall got a "front"
Orientation - see the two points above (the person I built it for asked me to put the dragon head back on (and it would be easier if the sail had different colours front and back)
otherwise she does exactly what you would expect and hope for:
Accelerates well,
Slips thru the water with no wake
Causes discussion
Good pillaging boat :}
I aim to do about a one metre version by basically the same methods - this will be much more buoyant and stable and the dragon's teeth will be easier to carve
andrew