Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Steam => Topic started by: Lochen on January 22, 2010, 05:48:29 pm
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Here we go then, a continuation of my other thread but Im now looking for advice/ideas. There are a few pics below of what Im starting with. She was, from what Ive been told, probably built from magazine plans some 20/25 years ago as a 50' Naval Steam Pinnace like the one that HMS Hood carried.
The superstructure is thin sheet metal and I would guess that all the parts were kit form and bolted to the structure, its a bit cheap and 'tinny' but would restore to probably a very high standard with me taking some time and care over it. The aft cabin would probably have to be rebuilt from wood to properly emulate the admirals launch status and because its the least authentic looking part of the boat.
The hull is soundly built from plank on frames with the exception of the stern which needs rebuilding and refitting. She is 50 inches long.
I intend to fit her with a steam plant and full RC and replace the current electric propulsion system. She was never fitted with any RC equipment and was powered (apparantly) with a car battery.
My choices then..................................
Refurbish her to what she is supposed to be (but hide a beautiful steam plant under the midships superstructure) OR convert her to something else while she is in her current state and the opportuunity presents itself. Wherein lies my request for ideas and advice......................given her hull shape has anyone got any ideas as to what she could be made into? I rally really dont want to hide what will be a miracle of modern miniture engineering (the steam plant) under that cabin top.
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I really really dont want to hide what will be a miracle of modern miniture engineering (the steam plant) under that cabin top.
I would :-))
Nice model and what a find. Cheddar models used to have a Pinnace of very similar dimensions in their demo fleet. As I recall she had a V4 Pegasus engine installed at one time and possibly a Gemini or Proteus later.
My choice would be to restore and probably fit a Monahan or Anton plant, but then I am not an open launch fan.
Neil
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this may have been it.
peter
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Ah.....now then, that puts a slightly different slant on things, what a beautiful looking model! :-))
A full restoration would be my simpler route and I can almost feel the buzz when lifting the cabin top to reveal the plant. How did you know I want a Monohan plant in her? ;)
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Outstanding Peter, you always have the photos. Yes, that may well have been the one.
Any shots of the plant {-)
I can almost feel the buzz when lifting the cabin top to reveal the plant. How did you know I want a Monohan plant in her?
Ahhh, I can see you understand one of the pleasures of a steam powered working boat.
As to the Monahan. I would have to say it is the natural choice.
Neil
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Outstanding Peter, you always have the photos. Yes, that may well have been the one.
Any shots of the plant {-)
Please? :}
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My option, though I love open launches, is to restore her to what she should be, just like the shiny photo in HS93 post above. And take THAT gun off!!!!
Andy
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One advantage of the pinnace build is that it will be more legitimate to open up the throttle whereas an open launch should be operated in a more sedate fashion.
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Why take the gun off? It's supposed to be there.
I think the pinnace can be made into a really beautiful model with the superstructures on. There are plenty of other open launch kits/deigns to use if you want to steam plant to show.
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In reality a gun, a 3-pounder, could be mounted on the standard 50' steam pinnace to turn it into a "picket boat", but I'm sure this was very rare.
I don't know whether what you have there is a good model of a 3-pounder.
Andy
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Thanks Andy, I think I agree with you. Looking at the photo above, there are some fairly significant differences to the one I have. Then again I've found plenty of pictures of the real thing and each one is diffferent in some detail or other (hatch positions and funnel predominently). Mine also had a mast fitted onto the transom and port n starboard nav light masts, which others dont appear to have. The way the handrail stanchions are mounted is different on mine too. I haven't yet seen a picture of either a model or the real thing with a gun mounted.
I shall retain some of my ones fittings (particularly the nav lights, they're so neat, made of brass and the tops and fronts open on hinges to reveal the bulbs) but copy some of the differences from others Ive seen.
I guess the differences give me a set of options for the refit in case anything breaks on strip down.
Is it ok with everybody to ask advice via this thread? I'm fairly new to this and will need ask a lot of questions. I will post re fit updates and pictures of progress if that is ok too?
In anticipation of you all being ok with this, my first question.................the superstructure is currently badly painted with household gloss paint. Whats the best way of removing it?
It all seems to be made of soldered 'tin'
Thanks everyone
Barry
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I've used gel paint stripper with good results.
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Paint all off, gel paint stripper did it :-))
As I thought, the superstructure is made of tin (tin plated steel sheet) quite thin, maybe 20 or 22 gauge and soldered together in sections (Im not sure if this was done in the factory or wether the builder would have done it).
Would anyone recommend sheathing the metalwork with fibreglass before re-finishing, or just fill sand and paint? The old paint wasn't particularly well adhered and I dont know of a paint that will stck well to tin plate.
Thanks
Barry
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Maybe rattle tin paint from Halfords, they have some good primers also. I normally stand mine in warm water and heat both the room and the item I am spraying, this cuts out any chance of 'blooming', which does polish out with 'T' cut anyway, everything being warm, the paint dries quicker and also there is less chance of dust adhering to the paint. Alternatively prime and brush paint.
Andy
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Look for an etch primer for metal Lochen, if you skin it with liquid plastic it will break orft in bits. Have a look for finishing systems used by the toy steam train fraternity.
Regards Ian.
Edit. One that cropped up is one called "U-Pol", paint it on and do a low temp. stove and then use a high build paint primer, sand and smooth and then finish coats.
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Well, half way through priming with the foc'sl done and the aft cabin structure. The main engine room cabin top will have to wait until I can effect some minor repairs to soldered joints as some have cracked. There are also some solder 'spatters' which need 'wiping'.
I used U Pol, acid etch primer first then high built. Its really easy to work with and fills imperfections very well.
Next jobs are rubbing down, filling and another coat, followed by a further flatting then topcoat. Im just stripping the fittings of old paint. When they're coated with new paint I'll reassemble the superstructures.
A few pictures. Ill post the 'improved' article tomorrow when I get some daylight for piccys.
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That's quite some construction there.
The model must have some age to it, as I don't thank anyone has worked is soldered tin plate for a long time. I think it's great that you are giving the model a new lease of life.
Please keep us posted.
Neil
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Thanks Neil :-))
Picture quality isnt great.
Im thinking about strip veneer planking the aft cabin structure wiith mahogany, it was originally painted gloss white! Only above the deckline though.
The funnel top is brass, (hence the masking) it was painted black!
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Oh yes, that's looking better.
I must confess, I prefer restoring models than I do building from scratch. There are different challenges involved and I enjoy seeing how another modeller worked. Of course this sometimes means some real knotty problems to overcome, but I enjoy the whole process of bringing a model back to life.
Neil
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I see they have pockets so the windows can be glazed by sliding the glass in.
peter
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That looks really good. It's going to be a great model.
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Quick update on progress (which is painfully slow as Im only working on it every other weekend, along with getting the model yacht into sailing shape).
Just started planking the aft cabin above the deckline. Its unfinished (just ran out of veneers) and unsanded. Above the window pockets will be planked after the new glass is put in. The cabin will eventually also be veneer plank lined.
It feels like its going well......................... O0
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Very nice :-))
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Wow! That's looking nice! What a difference then from before the restoration. Keep up the great work!
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Thanks chaps.
Hey Nick.....................hoping she'll be worthy of one of your stem plants eventually :-))
Barry
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A mortal sin.................I havent done any real work on this project for a few months now. I've lost interest I guess....................so,
She's up for grabs folks, very much as seen in the pictures although the main cabin top is now in primer and the wheel house cabin has had brass handrails and new window glass fitted and been varnished.
All the bits are present although some of the smaller parts are broken. The old transom has been removed and retained as a pattern for the new one, as has the deck.
THIS IS A DONATION project for someone, so she's FREE. Just cover my postage costs and she'll belong to the first individual to post in here, the main thread, so all is transparant, fair and visible.
Cheers
Barry
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Hi Barry,
PM sent regarding the model- I would prefer not to discuss details on the forum.
Greg
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I hope someone will take it and finish it, it's too nice to be left like that.
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Looks like Greg might be interested, will let everyone know soon
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Yup. It now belongs to Greg O0
Thanks to anyone else who showed interest.
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Greg, you had better keep us posted on the continued restoration <*<
I was VERY tempted, but I REALLY don't need another project right now, what with the Puffer and the River Queen and the launch and the..........
Neil
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Hmmm I might do Neil, wouldn't want to distract you from your projects though! <*< <*< <*< <*< <*< <*< <*< <*< :-))
With Barry's permision I would like to carry the thread on that he has started- it's the same boat after all and it would be handy to have the full restoration recorded at the same place.
Upto you Barry?
Greg
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Absolutely Greg! I was going to ask that you do just that.
First things first though, Ive been responding to your pms but you dont appear to be getting them.
Im packing the boat and all the bits up tonight and it will on its way to you by Tuesday at the latest
Cheers
Barry
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Such nice forum courtesy Barry to help keep a boat on the road back to the water.
.Good Luck greg I will enjoy watching the progress
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Has it arrived Greg?
I know it was later then anticipated being posted, apologies for that, just let me know it arrived safely.
Ta
Barry
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Hi Barry, Everyone,
Sorry to take so long getting back- only just got broadband on after moving 5 weeks ago- BT employ some people that can only be described as idiots!
The boat arrived safely, again thanks very much Barry, a very generous and difficult to execute gesture, and the amount of protective cardboard was very impressive indeed!
I have spent a few nights since it's arrival working on it and thinking of the layout that will best suit it being steam powered eventually.
First I must explain to people that Barry had made a really wonderful start on the boat- removing the transom, horrible deck, priming the superstructure and sorting out most of the fittings, including the wonderful model Hotchkiss 6 pounder- all cast brass and even has scale recoil action and loadable locking breach!!!
I must say I wasn't expecting the boat to be quite so large, or built so heavily- a real scale build. However, the way in which the boat had been built and finished left a lot to be desired- the planking had huge gaps in it (although it is triple planked so it wouldn't have leaked (badly!?) ), the decks were thin fragile plywood that had 'biro' decking and the transom, well the picture speaks for itself!
The tinplate superstructures are a real rarity and will look great when finished, although I've taken the very controversial decision not to use the tinplate stern cabin that came with the boat, again wonderfully detailed, but it's construction was pretty slapdash, so I've recycled the beautifully replanked (thanks Barry) curved roof and put teak sides on as per the original.
So, apart from cleaning the hull thouroughly of the awful bitumenous fibreglass stuff on the outside and the aluminium motor bed and bits and pieces in the hull that's pretty much where I'm upto at the moment.
I've included a couple of pics of the test tank at the bottom of our garden, sorry, the River Crake at the bottom of our new garden!
Greg
Pics are to follow this reply.
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First couple
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Just to give a sense of scale, the old boiler in the pictures is 10" x 4.5" dia.
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A few more...
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And the test tank :-))
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Never mind the boat (very nice BTW), with a test tank like that you need a fly rod O0
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Your replacement work on the transom looks wonderful :-))
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Thanks guys, not a fisherman myself, but we get migratory trout coming up from Greenodd and the Furness, my manager on Gondola has a licence to catch them so i'll be nabbing one if he catches a couple!!!!
The transom needs the vertical planking finishing and then I have ripped some thin seasoned oak veneers to diagonally finish it as per the full size practice.
Greg
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Looks great.... :-))
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You know, the more I work on this boat the more I feel I need to do the right thing by it- so I've been doing some research into the original spec of the full size pinnaces- or as mine has a gun on it- a 'picket boat'.
Some digging on Wiki' on the steam plant drew some very interesting diagrams of the original boiler (I have included the diagrams- copyrights with Wikipedia)- a Mumford 3-drum WT with coal firing then changed to oil firing.
I have also found that there is a treatise on 'Steam Picket Boats of the Royal Navy' by N B J Stapleton, so i've found a copy on Amazon for £35- original signed copies are now going for £120+ so I think I got a bargain. Hopefully this will allow me to make the model as realistic as possible, and also should be an interesting read.
Greg
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I have wanted to build the Picket Boat version for several years, talked to Metcalf Mouldings and then to Models by Design obout the 50" glass hull but each time the freight costs killed the idea. While doing so I did a bit of looking for other plans etc and found an article and plans in Model Shipwright about the 46' Admirals Barge version which looked the same at first glance, even to the gun mount, but had a counter stern rather than a straight transom and also had an ornate carving of a fish on either side of the back of the cabin. Obviously there were several variations on the theme. Very jealous of your good fortune in acquiring such an unusual model of a great looking (in my opinion) boat. Keep up the good work posting the story of the rebuild. Cheers, Ian.
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Hi Kiwi,
This is an offer to you, and anyone else if there is sufficient interest-
I can take the lines off this lovely model and transfer them either as a physical drawing in the post- or if you are familiar with Delftship I could send you a file of the plans for the boat after i've put in the offsets?
My prefered method is drawing, but as I say, if there is sufficient interest I will upload the offsets onto Delftship and email them.
Greg
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I'd love to have a Delftship drawing of the boat, thanks for the offer!
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Nice project Greg, are you going to build a suitable scale boiler as well?
Ian
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Hi Kno3,
Well, you make one person, if I can get another five interested I will do it- taking offsets is such a bore so I need some incentive- unless a drawing would be acceptable?
Ian,
Yes, I would very much like to make a scale Mumford 3-drum WT boiler, it wouldn't actually be such a difficult proposition, and I prefer watertube boilers anyway- just need a reliable feedwater plan...!
Greg
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I would definitely be keen on line drawings. I am gradually gathering information and if I cannot find a way to get the glass hull over here economically I will either scratch build P o F or make a mold for my own glass hull. Any help is always appreciated. Thanks, Ian.
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Well, as yet, no one else has come forward to ask for Delftship so I'm going to do a line drawing- sorry Kno3- though of course your more than welcome to the drawing.
Kiwi,
The model I have is triple planked in what looks like .9mm mahogany- this is true to full scale- although full scale would have been two diagonal amd one fore and aft planking layer.
The frames are cut from ply. I will draw it in exactly the way it is constructed.
I'll try and get it done asap, however i've got another drawing to finish first!
I'm glad other people share my love for these fantastic boats- again I must thank Barry for his generosity!
Greg
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Hi Kiwi,
This is an offer to you, and anyone else if there is sufficient interest-
I can take the lines off this lovely model and transfer them either as a physical drawing in the post- or if you are familiar with Delftship I could send you a file of the plans for the boat after i've put in the offsets?
My prefered method is drawing, but as I say, if there is sufficient interest I will upload the offsets onto Delftship and email them.
Greg
I don't have Delftship,but would love a set of drawings.
Regards,
Gerald.
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Ok, so that's Gerald, Ian and possibly Kno3 for drawings- anyone else?
Greg
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Drawings are fine too, delftship even better :-)
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gondolier88
Like kiwimodeller & kno3 ........I would definitely be keen on line drawings for a future project O0 - Derek
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Hi,
Ok Derek. Lots of interest!!!
I wonder if anyone here knows of a manufacturer of model naval guns- specifically the model Hotchkiss 3 Pounder quick firing gun on my model picket boat= having a detailed look at it today revealed it has a rifled barrel, recessed for holding a cartridge along with the locking breach this would suggest a skilled craftsman or a specific manufacturere made the gun, however there is no firing mechanism to be seen.
I'm a little confused to say the least!
Greg
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Please put me down for line drawings too. This looks like a really great hull for just about anything, as well as its intended purpose.
BTW, just what are its length and beam?
Geoff
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I wonder if anyone here knows of a manufacturer of model naval guns- specifically the model Hotchkiss 3 Pounder quick firing gun on my model picket boat
Depends on calibre, were "Hilti" cartridges available when the model was made? Given the standard of construction of the model, could it have been made by one of the Naval Colleges by junior ratings to enter one of the M/E exhibitions? If not self made, WEB were about the only "Commercial" manufacturers.
Regards Ian
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Something like this ?....
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b136/benjaml1/Noon-day_Gun_Hong_Kong_clip.jpg)
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Hi Geoff P,
Not a problem, I think I will do the drawings and when they are complete I will post a thread in the 'Model Boating' section saying they are available so anyone that wants them can say so- of course I will PMM everyone who has expressed interest on this thread first.
It's 50"LOA and 11.5" beam and about (I havn't measured) 3.5" draft BWL.
Circlip,
You know more than me!!!! I havn't measured the calibre yet- but at a quick look I would say about 6mm -/+ .5mm. I like model guns as pieces of engineering, nothing else, so while I know what to look for as regards making it work, I don't know the first thing about it's history or who would have made it.
Your theory regarding a junior rating's project may be a good one- one of my crewmates on Gondola who worked at BAE systems for years said when he did his machining courses the navy ratings in the workshop who were going on to ordnance and artillery engineering would make miniature artillery or small parts for full size guns.
I will search Hilti Cartridges and WEB, trhanks for the lead.
Greg
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Hi Benjamin,
Thanks, but I think that is a Hotchkiss 6 pounder, identical to the 3 pounder, just bigger, and if i'm not mistaken your picture is of the timekeeping gun in Hong Kong.
What I really need are details of model gun suppliers.
Greg
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I haven't said this, but it sounds(?) about ".22" size so possibly "Hilti" or Starter pistol size might fit. Watch out for the local Plods though, it MAY be classed as a firearm.
Regards Ian.
WEB used to have a full back page colour advert on the toy boat mags years ago after being ressurected, The fittings were rather expensive at the time, Catalogue was an arm and a leg too. Think they finally went spheroids up about twenty(?) years ago.
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Hi Benjamin,
Thanks, but I think that is a Hotchkiss 6 pounder, identical to the 3 pounder, just bigger, and if i'm not mistaken your picture is of the timekeeping gun in Hong Kong.
What I really need are details of model gun suppliers.
Greg
:-)) Sorry I couldn't help...
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Well now!! See.................this is exactly what I wouldn't have had the time or patience to achieve Greg. Your work is looking great so far. As to the stern cabin, I was going to give it the 'plank' treatment internally as well (I don't posess the skills to have fabricated a complete new cabin). What can I say so far but WOW!
The boat has obviously gone to a good home and is in skilled hands with a secure future ahead of her.
Im happy.
Barry
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Ok, update time.
Most of my work has been 'head work' recently- thinking of layout problems and engineroom details, so I've had a couple of evenings of actual work on the boat.
The photos show where the cabin is upto- it is now pretty much complete- planked, all the sides on, new illuminated name box (chosen 'Ajax' as the host ship), i've also rounded the corners as per the original.
You can see I've also now pretty much finished the transom too- 2.5mm oak at 45 degrees epoxy bonded to two directional pine planking.
Also, you can see the two little cabin doors I've made with their own brass locks and the brass knob I turned up on the lathe, mahogany framed with teak inlaid panels.
Greg
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Nice work Greg! She's looking great.
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Tip Top :-)) :-)) :-)) Bot Please work a littel faster {-)...cant went to see it ready...............
Regards Bernhard
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I must agree Bernhard....with a little imagination %% you could be looking at a full size construction O0 keep the photographs coming gondolier88 .....Derek
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Thanks guys,
Faster, faster????!!!!! I don't know <*<
I'll try Bernhard :-))
I must agree Bernhard....with a little imagination %% you could be looking at a full size construction
Wow, thanks Derek, that's a lovely compliment, I'm trying my hardest to get it to look just as full size would, unfortunately this does mean it takes a while!
Hi Nick, thanks mate, I'm aspiring to something you would turn out, lets see eh! Love the new profile pic- what's the connection???
Greg
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As gondolier88 ..says .....also, you can see the two little cabin doors I've made with their own brass locks ....
Greg...shouldn't the locks be on the outer side of the door set & not the inner? <:( :} :o .....Derek
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shouldn't the locks be on the outer side of the door set & not the inner?
Might be in Oz Derek but over here we tend to not let perps have access to the lock body.
It's tooooooo good to rush Greg, Ha' porth of tar and all that.
Regards Ian.
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sorry Circlip........[which by name is a locking device {-)] in OZ we have the :police: locks on the outside of the doors .....mind you I am proud convict stock from the first fleet........ O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 {-) {-) {-) O0 O0 O0 Derek
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Derek, a Circlip is a locking device ALL OVER the world, was an apprentice making Thousands of the little s*ds MANY years ago. :-)) {-)
Regards Ian
PS in OZ we have the locks on the outside of the doors
--- I suppose since you KNOW it's going to be broken into, why make it difficult?? O0
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My Dad always said "A locked door only keeps an Honest Man Honest"
Regards,
Gerald.
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Hi gondolier88 ....may I ask..... :} what type of glue/s are you using with the cabin construction? & also the hull [stern] reconstruction.....
I see an unmentionable PURPLE tube of some crud? >>:-(
I also see a clear little bottle of that SUPER GLUE <*< ...I would have colored the little bottle clear but then no one could read it %% ......Derek
OPPs....I also see a white & GREEN bottle further back which may be PVA?
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Hi Derek,
I use whatever is suitable for the application;
The purple glue- general purpose cyano based gel glue- slower setting than superglue- used for none-stressed joints that may need adjusting- trim peices, mouldings etc that will be varnished.
Super glueis used for non stressed joints that won't need adjusting- door handles, frames etc.
The green labelled bottle is Aliphatic Resin, I love it, strong, you can use it like PVA but is waterproof when set, it sets clear(ish) and doesn't stain the wood when varnished.
Sometimes I use a combination- two dots at the end and one in the middle of a long run and aliphatic resin between- this allows it to permanently stick together imediately, but has the strength of the aliphatic resin when it's set- allowing me to construct with the piece straight away, but has the strength of the white glue integrated into the construction.
I also use epoxy for all woodwork outside the hull or under the waterline- the transom for example is aliphatic resin on the two layers of pine planking and epoxy on the outer oak layer- this is the strongest, cheapest most waterproof way of doing it.
Greg
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Looks awesome ! I like the detail you spent on the door ! Great Job !! :-))
Red
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A magnificent thread. this is what "Mayhem" is all about... :-)) :-)) :-)) :-))
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Ok guys, not much to update as I've been extremely busy these past few days- however I have ordered the materials from Macc Models for the watertube boiler, the engine and boiler baseplate and materials to fininsh the engine (Stuart Turner D10). I have yet to finalise the exact boiler design- but it will be 2" dia' top drum with two 7/8" bottom drums, 6.5" long, 5.5" wide and 6" tall with 5/32" watertubes and 3/8 downcomers at the end of each drum.
I am at the moment at a crossroads- I would very much like to solid fuel fire it- it's full size counterpart was, and the grate would easlily be big enough, however it's prototype was also later converted to oil firing and I have the room and a desire to try out a proper scale parrafin (kerosene) firing system.
Suggestions are most welcome...!?
Greg
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Well, going for a "Yarrow" is showing signs of your masochismic tendancies, but a proper "Scale" Parraffin burner will be interesting Greg.
Regards Ian.
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Hi Greg,
I have just come across your thread for info on Yarrow type boiler, you may have built one by now. Boiler casing is light gauge Galvanized sheet lined with ceramic wool and held together with small self tappers.
I made this one to K.N.Harris design with a ceramic burner made from a gas fire eliment and it's a very fast steamer and as you know it requires a constant water feed.
Top tube is 2.5" dia mud- drums 1.125" dia with 24 5/16" dia down tubes each side. hydraulic tested to 200psi , site glass is taken from a boss top and bottom of top tube, mud drums fitted "with blow down valves.
I wouldn't recommend 5/32" down tubes as the small bores could get furred up and the 3/8" feeders are not necessary, 1/4" o/d is the smallest that I would use.
Don't see any problem if you wished to coal fire it, hope this will be of help.
Geo.
(http://s1.postimage.org/ATbHi.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxATbHi)
(http://s4.postimage.org/qhvuJ.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVqhvuJ)
(http://s4.postimage.org/qhCZ9.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVqhCZ9)
(http://s1.postimage.org/ATPBA.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxATPBA)
(http://s3.postimage.org/EiClA.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=PqEiClA)
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Hi Geo,
Thanks for posting your pics, and your suggestions.
I already decided to use 1/4" tubes instead, not from a scaling up point of veiw (she will be steaming on some of the cleanest, softest water in Britain, I do think they should offer better circulation though. However I will be sticking to the 3/8 downcomers- I realise they offer very little in the way of an advantage at this scale, but they are contemporary to the design of the boat and is one of 'those details' that will add to the general air of real scale modelling that the model has already had built into it.
I am very impressed with your boiler- it's nice to see real tube spacing in a model three-drum, so many people that make them space them far too widely.
I like your idea of using galvanised steel- I would imagine the prototype would have had that as the casing material too, although I will be making it curved to look as close as pos' to the prototype.
What do you power with your boiler?
Greg
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...
I made this one to K.N.Harris design with a ceramic burner made from a gas fire eliment and it's a very fast steamer and as you know it requires a constant water feed.
Top tube is 2.5" dia mud- drums 1.125" dia with 24 5/16" dia down tubes each side. hydraulic tested to 200psi , site glass is taken from a boss top and bottom of top tube, mud drums fitted "with blow down valves.
...
Hi, why did you choose not to use downcomers for your Yarrow boiler?
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Hi Greg,
I don't own this boiler any more as I sold it to a chap in San Francisco, I used it as a test boiler with a view to testing my Flash Steam engines but found that
150 psi wouldn't even start the engine so it was sold to fund other projects.
If you haven't started to build your boiler may I suggest that you make a jig from a piece of flat steel bar, mark out and drill the holes exactly as you want them in the boiler.
Slide this over the tubes as you locate them in the holes and then slide the jig to the opposite end of the tubes and then solder the tubes into the boiler into the boiler/ mud drums.
When soldered slide the jig off and this leaves the tubes ready to be slipped into the boiler/mud drums which have been drilled to suit..
(http://s2.postimage.org/b_eM9.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Tsb_eM9)
The picture of the jig was for a previous boiler that I made with 50-- 5/16" dia down tubes per side, this was for an engine scratch built from stock but using a Stuart
5 A casting only. This was to be installed in a 4-man Canadian canoe but as I didn't have the storage space this plant was sold to a chap in Austria.
(http://s4.postimage.org/t5rF9.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aVt5rF9)
In reflection I should have made the boiler casing wider at the top to use up more of the heat produced by the burner but it was still a very fast steamer and as long as it was fed by water it steamed the big engine very well.
As both boilers were to K.N.Harris's design no large down tubes were called for so none were fitted and I don't think that they were needed ( not in model size anyway ) I think I have run ouyt of space ,if you require any more pics let me know.
George.
(http://s3.postimage.org/HczEJ.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=PqHczEJ)
(http://s1.postimage.org/DTu5i.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gxDTu5i)
(http://s3.postimage.org/Hdp1J.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=PqHdp1J)
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Hi, why did you choose not to use downcomers for your Yarrow boiler?
Hi Kno3,
As explained to Greg The boiler design didn't call for downcomers so they were not fitted and as this was the second Yarrow type that I have built
for model size they are not required providing that you use a min 1/4" dia field tubes, in my opinion anything smaller will have poor water circulation.
George.
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What a lovely little engine, did you ever put it into a boat?
A cracking idea about the jig- I was wondering how best to get the holes exactly aligned, my best so far had been masking tape on the copper with the holes accurately drawn onto it.
Greg
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Greg,
The engine and boiler was sold to a chap in Austria and I believe it is steaming up and down a lake outside Vienna.
Back to your Yarrow boiler.
Mark off a center line in your mud drums and mark of the holes as per sketch.
I use a set of draughtsmans small dividers which mark the copper very clearly and center dab all the holes, same for the top drum with the line set out to match the angle of the down tubes.
I didn't flatten the mud drums as K.N.H. I drilled them out on the Mill/drill and after drilling ran a 5/16" dia drill fixed in the hand drill and opened them out so that the tubes went in straight, do the same with the top drum.
Set up the tubes in the top drum but keep them lying horizontal and supported as you braze them other wise the weight of the tubes if held vertical will distort the top drum, do the same with the other side not forgetting to use the steel jig to hold the tubes in position in the holes.
When cool slide the jig to the bottom for the mud drums as you pull it off it will bring the tubes into approx line and then you can fiddle them into the holes and braze up. EASY PEASY.
I am sending you a sketch of hole markings but if it doesn't come out let me know and I will P.M. you the sketch, any further help please ask.
I was down your way 21-07-10 and visited Conniston and D.Campbells grave, I stood at the lake side in peeing rain and in the silence I could imagine the roar of the Bluebirds Engine.
As an aside from steam I have just built a 1/12 scale model of K7 with brushless motor and high power battery and it's going at 27 mph which is just over 300mph to scale.
We came down from Conniston to Torver and then down the A5084 to Penny Bridge and passed a little spot where the road touches the lake side with a couple of parking spots, my ambition is to one day bring K7 and sail it on Conniston at this spot.
I have listed K7 on ANY OTHER BUILDS on a thread by BISCUIT, if you would like a very grainy movie let me know and I will post it via P.M.
George.
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(http://s3.postimage.org/JDjMS.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=PqJDjMS)
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Thanks for that, that's definitely the way I will do it.
I think I know where you mean- there's a few spots down the west side like that, if it's the place where there was a bit of a gravel beach, that was the bay where K7's refuelling dory was anchored.
I'd love to see a grainy video!
Greg
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Greg,
Having trouble sending P.M. could you please mail me your mail address.
George.
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Outstanding Peter, you always have the photos. Yes, that may well have been the one.
Any shots of the plant {-)
Ahhh, I can see you understand one of the pleasures of a steam powered working boat.
As to the Monahan. I would have to say it is the natural choice.
Neil
You may be interested to know that I purchased the Picket Boat " Iron Duke " from John Woodruff of Cheddar Models back in the summer of 2005.
It was in very poor condition having spent a long time on display in CM's showroom. It was complete with the Cheddar P4 steam engine with horizontal Proteus "type" boiler and an early ABC - automatic boiler control system for gas and water. To the best of my knowledge I am not aware of a Gemini or Proteus engine being installed.
Due to other commitments I have had to delay restoration until last year, a start was made on stripping down the boat, removing the steam plant and ABC unit. I intend to install a Proteus steam plant with a later version of the ABC system, the P4 will be fitted into a Mountfield "Cruiser" tug yet to be built ?.
The hull has been sprayed ready for top coats later in the year when the warmer weather comes??. The rear cabin was covered in wood effect "Contact" a sticky back plastic material, this has been removed - not a nice job. I also removed the plastic windows due to glue marks and scratches. I have planked the outside of the cabin with Mahogany strip and removed the material which covered the roof, this will be recovered again ( I'm researching a suitable material ). The deck is to be re-planked in the spring - lots of sanding in the garden !.
New pipework will be required when installing the Proteus along with radio control servos and RX plus batteries.
I do have some poor pictures of the P4 and boiler still in the hull before they were removed , also a copy of the photo used on the cover of a Cheddar Models booklet.
I hope the above is of interest, I will keep you updated with restoration of "Iron Duke" with pics later in the year. Once the work is completed I hope to take "Iron Duke" back to Cheddar and sail on the lake now operated by Cheddar Steam Club
Roger
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Hi Roger,
That sounds like a lovely project, have you any pictures of the boat?
The originals had Calico cabin tops, if you wanted to scale this you can cut a fine fabric such as a shirt or similar and glue it to the cabin using paint as the adhesive as in full size. i'm going to varnish mine as MBM member Lochen made such a good job of planking it, it'd be criminal to cover it up, even if this isn't to scale.
Greg
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You may be interested to know that I purchased the Picket Boat " Iron Duke " from John Woodruff of Cheddar Models back in the summer of 2005.
It was in very poor condition having spent a long time on display in CM's showroom. It was complete with the Cheddar P4 steam engine with horizontal Proteus "type" boiler and an early ABC - automatic boiler control system for gas and water. To the best of my knowledge I am not aware of a Gemini or Proteus engine being installed.
Due to other commitments I have had to delay restoration until last year, a start was made on stripping down the boat, removing the steam plant and ABC unit. I intend to install a Proteus steam plant with a later version of the ABC system, the P4 will be fitted into a Mountfield "Cruiser" tug yet to be built ?.
The hull has been sprayed ready for top coats later in the year when the warmer weather comes??. The rear cabin was covered in wood effect "Contact" a sticky back plastic material, this has been removed - not a nice job. I also removed the plastic windows due to glue marks and scratches. I have planked the outside of the cabin with Mahogany strip and removed the material which covered the roof, this will be recovered again ( I'm researching a suitable material ). The deck is to be re-planked in the spring - lots of sanding in the garden !.
New pipework will be required when installing the Proteus along with radio control servos and RX plus batteries.
I do have some poor pictures of the P4 and boiler still in the hull before they were removed , also a copy of the photo used on the cover of a Cheddar Models booklet.
I hope the above is of interest, I will keep you updated with restoration of "Iron Duke" with pics later in the year. Once the work is completed I hope to take "Iron Duke" back to Cheddar and sail on the lake now operated by Cheddar Steam Club
Roger
did it look like this one ?
Peter
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I remember that the Pinnace was John's personal favourite model, (a very dim memory is telling me his father served on a Pinnace) he always told me he would be keeping the model, but John being the man he was, everything was for sale at the right price.
I stupidly missed a bargain when he sold the Jan tug complete with Proteus plant.
Keep us posted on your restoration please.
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I remember that the Pinnace was John's personal favourite model, (a very dim memory is telling me his father served on a Pinnace) he always told me he would be keeping the model, but John being the man he was, everything was for sale at the right price.
I stupidly missed a bargain when he sold the Jan tug complete with Proteus plant.
Keep us posted on your restoration please.
How did you miss it he offerd it everyone for 12 months, but the price did alter depending on who you where and the mood he was in , >>:-(
Peter %%
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How did you miss it he offerd it everyone for 12 months, but the price did alter depending on who you where and the mood he was in , >>:-(
Peter %%
When I say I 'missed it' I mean, I failed to take John up on his kind a generous offer :}
It was at a time before his illness and before things started to get difficult for the company.
The price was good, but I was not too active at the time, and (as I have rediscovered) it is a BIG boat.
20-20 hindsight is a wonderful thing.
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Greg, have you made any progress with drawings? I would hate to have missed a post saying they were available. I did manage to find a copy of Model Shipwright with plans but interestingly they were for a boat which they called an Admirals Barge and although it looked identical above deck the drawing (presumably to scale) was only 45" long and it had a counter stern. Much as I would like to build from the Metcalf/Models by Design fiberglass hull the freight costs are just too exhorbitant so I will start from scratch when the time comes and that is where line drawings of a square transom boat would come in most useful. Happy to cover printing costs and postage. Thanks, Ian.
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kiwimoddler
If it is picket boat plans that you are looking for, I have a copy of "Fifty foot steam picket boat" scale 1 inch to 1 foot by N.A.Ough (2 sheets) which I could get copied and send to you.
Tim
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Greg, have you made any progress with drawings? I would hate to have missed a post saying they were available. I did manage to find a copy of Model Shipwright with plans but interestingly they were for a boat which they called an Admirals Barge and although it looked identical above deck the drawing (presumably to scale) was only 45" long and it had a counter stern. Much as I would like to build from the Metcalf/Models by Design fiberglass hull the freight costs are just too exhorbitant so I will start from scratch when the time comes and that is where line drawings of a square transom boat would come in most useful. Happy to cover printing costs and postage. Thanks, Ian.
Hi Ian,
I havn't as yet, but if you were needing them quite soon I'm sure I could get them done for you.
The admirals barges were built at the same yards and carried along with the Pinnaces on flagships for Admirals and senior captains, as well as ambassadors, mayor of london, royal family etc.
It'll be a good time to do the drawings over the next few weeks as I'm stripping the hull with the steamboat museum's walnut shell blaster that we're borrowing to strip SL Osprey's hull.
I can then fair the hull and take the lines off her.
I've been quite busy with the boiler and a few things for SY Gondola's refit so I havn't had much done on the boat for the past month or so.
I've finally got my camera working properly again (funny how taking 700+ photos of the card makes it work better!), so I promise I'll make an update asap.
TAG's offer is a good one however, his Pinnace is very nice so they can't be bad drawings... :-))
I'd still like to take the lines off mine however as I'll modify them for the eventual build of the admiral's barge.
Here's an example of an admiral's barge on Windermere, now called Janet she was restored by the boatbuilding college at Lowestoft and now resides in the boathouse at the Langdale Chase Hotel near Ambleside (if anyone watches the Lakes programme that's where the 'Gladiator' Thomas Noblett reesides).
Greg
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Greg, Janet is certainly beatiful however I had sort of got it in my head that I was going to do a square transom Pickett Boat version in navy livery just to give me something a bit different to my Lady Sarah Windermere launch and my Wide Awake river launch. There is no urgency, I still have finishing work to do on the river launch and I am also expecting another paddler hull sometime soon. If you want a copy of the Model Shipwright article and plans let me know.
Tim, I am happy to get any plans of the 50" version I can lay my hands on (you can never have too much information) and to pay copying and postage costs or to recprocate with copies of the Admirals Barge 45" version if they are of interest. Do the plans you have give bulkhead shapes and lines? As I said in the earlier post I usually try and buy a fiberglass hull and build from that but this time the freight quote was just too much and so I will have my first attempt at building from scratch which is another reason to do the square stern version but I believe I will need lines drawings to do that. Cheers, Ian.
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kiwimoddler
If it is picket boat plans that you are looking for, I have a copy of "Fifty foot steam picket boat" scale 1 inch to 1 foot by N.A.Ough (2 sheets) which I could get copied and send to you.
Tim
Tim - Like Ian I'm interested in a set if you makes some copies !
Also saw that Models by Design sell the hull including the MacGregor/Norman Ough plans:
http://www.modelsbydesign.co.uk/model_boats.aspx
Cheers, Bjorn
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Hi Greg & Peter
Greg - thank you for tip on use of cotton shirt as scale calico, I have been looking at Solartex a iron on fabric covering used by aero modellers - looks pretty good and does offer a scale appearance of a fabric material of calico once a coat of matt black paint is applied. Still I will certainly try out your tip - just need to search for an old shirt from the wardrobe !
Peter - Yes your picture is of Iron Duke in her early days, sadly as I reported earlier she has not worn too well while on display at Cheddar Models. The four figures have survived allthough a bit dirty and due to age the paint used has turned sticky ? Stupid of me but I did not take any pictures of Iron Duke prior to the restoration was started. However , I have attached a few images that may be of interest.
Information
One problem is distortion I have come across with the Iron Duke hull which originally came from a manufacture who purchase the plug from a "Cottage industry" which closed down. Close inspection will reveal that one side of the hull is longer than the other - not by much but enough to make the rear cabin out of square. Very few notice, its just I know - and so do all of you now !!!
Kingston Mouldings kingston,[email protected] supplied me with a copy of the plans normally supplied with the Picket Boat Hull sold by them, check the websitewww.KingstonMouldings.co.uk (http://www.KingstonMouldings.co.uk) Very useful contact to have, with a very informative website.
Help Required
Does anyone have any comment or views with regard to a waterline mark on the hull , I note that in all the illustrations published in Stapleton's "Steam Picket Boats" no hull is shown with a waterline.
Roger
N.B.
John @ Cheddar Models was in a good mood and I purchased Iron Duke at a good price !, I guess I was one of the people he liked. John did not suffer fools gladly.
(http://s1.postimage.org/2a1k0bjes/2_Iron_Duke.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2a1k0bjes/)
(http://s1.postimage.org/2a1x8mbd0/1_CM_catalogue_Cover.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2a1x8mbd0/)
(http://s1.postimage.org/2a2c4gft0/5_Boiler_P4.png) (http://www.postimage.org/)
(http://s1.postimage.org/2a2z9zapw/7_P4.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2a2z9zapw/)
(http://s1.postimage.org/2a3mfi5ms/8_P4.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2a3mfi5ms/)
(http://s1.postimage.org/2a4b8kd1g/11_P4_Test_Bed.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2a4b8kd1g/)
(http://s1.postimage.org/2a501mkg4/14_Hull_Cabin.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2a501mkg4/)
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John did not suffer fools gladly.
John would suffer anybody gladly.....if they had their wallets out :}
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Kiwimodeller and bbjs.
You are welcome to a copy of the plans, they have all the lines and sections to enable you to scratch build the hull. As a scratch builder I enjoy hull building in wood, no grp please! I wanted to build my picket boat as the real ones were ie double diagonal but it would not work on the inside layer. Nothing to glue most of the diagonals to so did longitudinal planks on the first layer then diagonal planks on the second layer. All planks were 1000x20x2mm limewood. Things turned out well, no planks have sprung since it was finished about six years ago.
If both of you would PM me we can sort things out.
Tim
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gemini
I have just read your post about picket boats, I completed one about six years ago and used Stapleton's book to sort out all my unanswered questions. I am assuming you have a copy of his book Steam Picket Boats as you make reference to it. The aft cabin was covered in corticene see page 21 the description of which is in appendix iv page 98. It appears to be a sort of linoleum used in days gone by as a bathroom floor covering which I remember as a small boy. I found the nearest to this in scale terms in a material form dressmaking shop.
If you PM me with an address I will send you a sample if I can find the left overs. I note that you are going to reglaze the after cabin, for heavens sake do it in glass, at this scale 1mm glass is easy to cut and fit. Use thin wooden strips to hold it it place.
As far as waterlines were concerned I went along with Stapleton's majority pictures and painted mine all grey (light grey for foreign climes) after all they were only ships boats.
I gave mine a planked deck using wallnut strips sandwiched between thin black card as caulking a very messy and dusty process but well worth the effort. Not really prototypical but I like planked decks! It is powered by a much superior engine to Cheddar machines, a Nichols Avon twin cylinder unit with a Cheddar boiler controlled by one of my own designed water level controls giving a minimum sailing time of one hour.
Hope this helps
Tim
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gemini
The aft cabin was covered in corticene see page 21 the description of which is in appendix iv page 98. It appears to be a sort of linoleum used in days gone by as a bathroom floor covering which I remember as a small boy.
Tim
Well spotted Tim!!
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P M sent thanks Tim.
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Managed to find a copy of the stapleton book on AbeBooks last night for 20Pounds plus 4Pounds postage which seems to be a bit of a bargain compared with what other booksellers want for copies. Look forward to that turning up in the mail. Cheers, Ian.
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Bargain! I couldn't find one for less than £30 inc P&P. A very good read.
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After a long period of being laid up due to other commitments I've had some time to get some more work done on the picket boat.
I decidied a long time ago that a plywood stem was really not what I wanted to be seen on the boat, and that really an oak one to match the transom was the ideal. I took the step of planing the stem back to the rabbet, fitting a new stem of some nice seasoned oak and carving and planing it to shape.
After I had epoxied it in and made sure the steam and apron were well and truly bonded I set to and started attacking (true description) the massive lump of unshaped, unfinished and downright unsightly GRP splodge around the apron. It had, I amagine, a two fold purpose in the builder's eyes; strengthening the plank ends and a poor attempt at making sure no water ingressed from the plank ends- it's lucky that water hadn't got behind and rotted the planks. Perhaps the builder should have had more confidence in his planking to start with as there are no signs of ingress.
In the process of removing said horrible lump a couple of the planks loosened below the waterline, so I have stripped the worst back to the first layer of planking, and the second just cut ready for butt jointing a new section in.
I have decided I would like a couple of intermidiate frames at the bow as there are so many turns in the planking and I wanted something to secure the replacement planking sections onto. I first made templates in paper and ply before making the finished article in Iroko. It is fastened on every other plank with brass pins and epxoied into place. There is a mirror piece to be made for the port side too.
Once they are in, the breasthook that I made, but haven't photo'd will be installed.
It's nice to get back to this model, so hopefully there will be many more updates in the coming weeks!
Greg
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Hi Greg
Just had to say what a great job your making of this restoration.
Also to show that I did read it all I have now 500ml of Aliphatic resin wood glue.
Not going to clog the thread so thanks for the info and thanks to gentleman who saw it.
Happy new year to all, Alan
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Depends on calibre, were "Hilti" cartridges available when the model was made? Given the standard of construction of the model, could it have been made by one of the Naval Colleges by junior ratings to enter one of the M/E exhibitions? If not self made, WEB were about the only "Commercial" manufacturers.
Regards Ian
(http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6149/6018999693_a6fcd56028_o.jpg)
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Thanks Logoman, very interesting.
Glad it's helped you Alan.
Greg
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hi all, new to the forum so only just picked this thread up, very interesting, as i found this in the loft last week. It had been up there for about 20 years and was given to me by an old boy whose loft i was working in.
(http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae329/dave_goldsmith/IMG_2974.jpg)
(http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae329/dave_goldsmith/IMG_2972.jpg)
(http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae329/dave_goldsmith/IMG_2971.jpg)
I originally didnt want to model a pinnace and was trying to think what esle i could make from it, but after seeing this thread, it has spurred me on to build it as designed.
I would have no problem with the woodwork as i make 1/12 scale dollshouses and furniture!
The problem i have is that i have no plans at all. Obviously i dont need hull drawings, but could anyone help with a set of above deck drawings.
The hull was the only thing i was given so everything will be scratch built.
The hull was not particlarly well made and a lot of filler will be required to get it straight. Can anyone tell me what the finish was on the real thing?
If the planks showed i will replank over the top if need be.
(http://i984.photobucket.com/albums/ae329/dave_goldsmith/IMG_2970.jpg)
Lastly I have downlownded all the photos i can find from google images, does anyone have any other source of photos?
Thanks Dave (Southend)
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Hi Dave,
That looks like exactly the same hull design as mine- in construction deatils too.
The answer to getting this model right is to get yourself a copy of 'Steam Picket Boats of the Royal Navy' by Commander N B J Stapleton. Amazon often has copies for sale.
The book is a treasuretrove of detailed photos, written accounts and picket boats in their various guises.
Greg
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Are there any plans about for the super structure, scale no problem I will redraw them. Do the planks show or could the hull be smooth.?
Thanks Dave
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Basically none of the superstructures are the same, although I do beleive that there is a 1:24 scale model that is available- you could find plans for that and scale them up?
The planking doesn't show on any of the boats as they are double diagonal planked full size.
Greg
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Dave, I have two different sets of plans and the book by Stapleton and as Greg says there are many small variations in the superstructure, presumably depending on what year they were built and perhaps also what they were going to be used for. The Admirals boat also has a different hull with a counter stern and it has a swept up roof at the rear of the cabin. It was featured along with plans in the Model Shipwright number 84. Yours is obviously a straight stern Picket Boat version. I was sent a copy of the Norman Ough plans for the straight stern Picket Boat by a member of this forum along with some very useful photos of a restored boat at a maritime museum. I cannot at the moment find the note that told me which museum but if the old memory cells serve me correctly Southampton rimngs a bell. I a purchased a 50" fiberglass hull from Models by Design and have recently begun building. I will power that with a twin cylider steam engine built from a New Zealand made kit. If you do not have any luck with plans in the UK send me a PM or email (address on my profile) and I will arrange to copy what I have but it may take a few weeks as I have to go to the city to find a copy centre with a large enough machine, nobody in our little town can do it. Cheers, Ian.
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Thanks kiwi. I am in the process of obtaining the book, thanks for the offer of the plan but don't go to that much trouble. Do you have a scanner, if so just scan it in parts and email it as log as there's a scale on one of the bits I can put it all together in photoshop and work up new drawings. I believe the original boat is 199 and is in Portsmouth naval museum. Thanks again for your reply
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Thanks cir clip, just the job. I now have a drawing, I think the the model shipwright version
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Just received a copy of the Stapleton book, only 8.99 off flea bay a bargain I think. Looks like a good reference book. No excuses got to get going now.
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Bargain, well done!! Look forward to seeing your progress.
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Finally, feels like I'm getting somewhere- all the replanking has been done, one coat of SP106 epoxy resin, two coats of Aluminium primer, one coat of undercoat, and first coat of RN Blue- mixed up from Dulux Oxford Blue and Black gloss until it was right(?). I'm fairly happy with the colour comparing it to Pinnace 199 videos on Youtube.
Greg
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Hi Greg
What a great finish, fabulous job.
Could you tell me about the aluminum primer?
I'm not up on painting and I will be painting Alaska soon.
I'd love to have a finish like yours.
Did you spray it with an air brush?
Haven't been on for a while since the crash, I've had to load Firefox because Explorer will not connect to the forum.
Not sure what I'm called now as my post name comes up with loger and not kerrsy.
any way found it again, hope all is well
Alan
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Hi Alan,
Thanks, it's only first coat, it'll get another decent coat, then a good sanding- probably back to undercoat in a couple of places, then a final 2 coats.
The aluminium primer is one of the most useful things ever invented in my opinion- it sticks to everything (don't go anywhere near your wife/best shoes/china/bedding/car etc. if you value your life!) It is a suspension of extremely fine pulverised aluminium powder in an oil-based liquid. You must stir it for a good 5 minutes before using to make sure as much aluminuim is free as possible. A 2.5L tin goes quite a long way- it would do 10 of your models no problem. It seals all porous materials, such as wood, perfectly as the aluminium penetrates and the base liquid protects- but it works equally well on keyed non-porous surfaces too- such as epoxy resin, GRP and metal- I've never tried it on hard plastics such as ABS. It's used a lot in boatbuilding to seal end-grain on butt joints and the like in conjunction with copious Cuprinol...!
I've just used a brush on mine- as long as you are using a decent (bristles stay in) soft bristle brush- Wickes and B&Q's own brushes are generally very good, and good value for money. However, the finish is determined more by preperation and paint qaulity- preperation for mine was fill using Ronseal 2-pack wood filler, sand and fair the hull, fill any little places I missed the first time, sand again. I then mixed up some SP106 (now replaced with SP360 in the shops) epoxy resin, brushed it on thickly with a fast hardener. I let this dry for a few days then sanded this. When I had a decent smooth finish I put the two coats of aluminium primer on, when they were dry I lightly keyed the hull and put the undercoat on- just a decent Crown exterior undercoat. The undercoat was sanded and then the first coat of paint was administered- and now it's as in the pictures.
All being well it will get a wet and dry tonight, and a second coat put on.
You'll have to post some pics of your model on here, we haven't seen any for a while...
Greg
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Good info Greg, thanks
I'm afraid I haven't done much for a while, to busy at school.
but my engine arrived Friday so I'll be on the mill and lathe for a while.
I'll try to get some pictures of the casting to put up and keep a running log of the machining.
Alan
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The Game is afoot Greg--wonderful to see the hull "reborn" :-))