Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Steam => Topic started by: MONAHAN STEAM MODELS on April 27, 2010, 04:07:15 am
-
Hi Everyone,
So I'm starting a new build thread to share with you a behind the scenes look at the production run of a new engine we developed some time ago called the Cirrus V-Twin. I thought some of you might be interested in seeing a new engine build from start to finish, so here it goes. I will up date this thread with new pictures and hopefully some machining videos as time permits me to do so.
I should start out by saying that I have already prototyped this engine sometime ago and this build will be covering the production run of the parts for the final design. I don't want to post any pictures of the finished prototype because I feel that would defeat my purpose of sharing this build with all of you.
Build log as follows:
Well after three 14 hour days of messing with the setup on one of the CNC milling machine's and only after many countless program edits, the body count is 4 broken taps, 2 busted end mill cutters and one completely destroyed part which was grabbed by a end mill cutter and ripped out of the second vise destroying the fixture it was in, then winged at light speed into the inner wall of the mill's sheet metal enclosure. Needless to say the part died on impact. The good news is the machine is finally dialed in and making perfect parts now. Man, the things I go through in the name of steam. %)
So here you go, one of the first perfect parts.
Nick
-
Looks lovely... :-))
I always wondered about a program/s that "plugs in" from CAD direct to CNC & if one were available....
-
Beautiful Nick. Most of it is obvious and I'm particularly interested in seeing how the control valve goes together but what is the additional hole for alongside the crankshaft bore?
-
I see that Nick still has permission to photograph & post his truly brilliant quality components on the Rose Wood lounge room cabinet table top O0 {-) ...Derek
-
Well, the front view has certainly killed any fear of a one off casual copy Nick. What caused the crash??
Regards Ian.
-
Thats really nice, would like to see more of it. Oh, that bit of engine's not bad either :-))
Ian
-
Thanks guys,
Hi Benjaml1,
There are many Cam software's available which will work with CAD designed parts. I've used some of the best ones on market but I still prefer to wrote all my own programs by hand, line by line. This way I know exactly what to expect when the machine is running. This part so far took over 60 pages of code. I also write all the code by hand for our 8 axis machines.
Hi Richard,
Great question but I don't want to ruin the surprise. O0
Hi Derek,
The Misses wasn't around when the photo was taken. %)
Hi Circlip,
The crash was caused during a facing operation. I'm running two vises in the machine currently. In the first vise (LH side) I machine almost everything you see in the rear photo including the profile. When this operation is done the part still has about an 1/8" of material attached to it which was being held in the vise. The part then gets flipped over and laid face down in the second vise (RH side) and the excess material is faced off and all the other work is then preformed on that side. So I'm basically machining both part simultaneously.
The parts start out as 1/2" thick, 2" wide by 3" long blocks of brass. When the crash occurred it was during the facing operation in the second RH vise. I was taking multiple light surface cuts to remove the excess material. When there was about a 1/16" material left to remove it the over hanging material would peal itself up into the cutter causing a snag. I now just take almost the full 1/8" depth surface cut in one zigzag back and forth pass. Then I take the last final light surfacing cut.
-
Very nice Nick, I'm glad you decided to post pictures of all manufacturing steps.
Could you share the dimensions and weight of the finished engine?
-
And the program pleaassse... :}
-
And a free sample for independent unbiased review! :} :} %)
-
Hopefully that's the only one Nick. Interesting to note though that despite the capabilities of CNC, the perenial problem of effective workholding always rears its head.
Best regards Ian.
-
Now that the Milling machine that is producing the Engine frames is dialed in and can be left to do it's thing, I had some time both yesterday and today to focus on getting another one of our CNC machines up and running.
For today's menu we are serving Bronze Cylinders. O0
The cylinders have been another one of those tricky time consuming parts to get set up properly on the 8 axis machine. >>:-( Although they may look some what simple it takes a lot of machining to get what you see here from a solid piece of bronze billet. The cylinders are designed to allow both the upper and lower cylinder covers to be threaded into the part. There is a small stepped recessed area at both the top and bottom of the cylinder's open ends to accept an o-ring to ensure a steam tight seal once the cylinder covers are threaded into the cylinder. I chose to use threaded in cylinder covers because it allows for quick and easy servicing to be preformed to the piston o-rings if ever needed. Most similarly designed small engines I've seen over the years with small sized cylinders have almost always had press fitted cylinders covers which makes it almost impossible to ever remove them to service the piston's o-rings. I chose to sand blast the exterior surfaces with a fine media to give the cylinders a scale casting look. Plus there's already going to be so much shiny stuff on this engine as it all comes together, I think that having a different texture on the cylinders will give a nice contrast.
-
Nick know How :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-))
Regards <<Bernhard
-
Threaded both ends is an excellent arrangement and allows a neater finished shape than a bolted cover without the limitations of a pressed cover.
I do like the look of the blasted finish however it may prove difficult to keep clean.
-
Looking good, I hope the covers are going to be slightls larger in diameter to give a scale look to the cylinder.
-
Lovely... :-))
-
Thanks everyone for you thoughtful comments.
It's about time for a progress update isn't it? %) I can't let you all to think that I've been just kicking back with my feet up on the desk or something like that. {-)
So the first order of business since the last build update was to drill and tap the bottom of the engine frame to accept the engine's base plate. Then it was on to milling out the engine base plate itself. Another simple but yet critical part that needed to be made was the brass crankshaft bearing support tube. Once this part was made it was then pressed into the engine frame. The crankshaft is supported by two stainless steel sealed ball bearing which get press fitted into either end of the bearing support tube.
Now that the bronze cylinders have been made it was time to make the upper and lower cylinder covers. The upper (or top) cylinder cover is turned and milled from brass while the lower cylinder cover is made from bearing bronze since the piston rod will be passing through it. The lower cylinder cover is bored and tapped to accept a o-ring gland seal and a adjustable gland nut which will be made at a later date. Both the upper and lower cylinder covers thread into the cylinder and in the photos you'll notice the o-ring seal which keeps them steam tight. I've rubbed steam oil onto the sand blasted surfaces of the bronze cylinders and then wiped away the excess with a clean towel. I've found that this improves the look while preventing finger prints showing up on the surfaces.
The next interesting and somewhat tricky part that needed to be made was the brass manifold cover which bolts to the front of the engine frame thus sealing off the internal steam passages ways. I've dubbed this part the brass bat wing. I like to think that Batman would be flattered.
You can't have a manifold cover without a proper throttle valve/direction valve so that was the next part to be made. I also decided it was a good time to make the intake and exhaust manifold extension which thread into the rear of the main engine frame. So by this point I started getting impatient as always and decided to go ahead and paint the engine frame to see what it was going to look like since the prototype version of this engine I made earlier was never painted. After painting it I of course accidentally put a few small chips in the paint shortly afterward. >>:-(
The two ridiculously long bolts holding the cylinders in place are only temporary until I get around to making the real trunnion shafts.
The engine is really starting to take shape now but there is still a ton of other parts that need to be made still to before I can even come close to calling this project done. Hope you enjoy the progress photos.
-
I should add that I'm not completely sure what the final retail cost will be yet. This can only be completely nailed down once we have added up all the time it takes to make each part and assemble an engine. Our target retail price for the completed ready to run engine including the oil lubricator which we are trying desperately not to exceed is $499.00USD. If anything we would like to offer it for an even lower price than that. However, this is the same price simpler, less complicated V-Twin oscillators retailed for 8 years ago. Currently with no real great number of choices available to steam enthusiasts who would like a small light weight high quality steam engine for smaller boats we have decided to produce this engine. The whole complete ready to run steam plant will be under $1000. This is the boiler which will be included with the complete steam plant: http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=23128.0
-
Great one,,,,, :-)) :-)) :-))........Will there be a waterpump to it,,,and a gastank..
-
Thanks Bernhard,
Great question, yes there will be an optional water pump and a optional mini refillable fuel tank for this steam plant but those will be add-on items since not everyone will need them. The price for these items will be very reasonable too.
-
Hi Nick, are you going to use banjo fittings for the exhaust and steam intake? The screws look that way. Anyway, banjo fittings restrict the steam flow, normal pipe unions might be better in this case.
Too bad you didn't make the cylinder covers a bit wider...
-
Hi Nick, are you going to use banjo fittings for the exhaust and steam intake? The screws look that way. Anyway, banjo fittings restrict the steam flow, normal pipe unions might be better in this case.
Too bad you didn't make the cylinder covers a bit wider...
I'm still scratching my head as to why I would have made the cylinder covers a bit wider? Every single full size steam engine we have owned or worked on over the years has always had the same diameter cylinder covers as the cylinder blocks themselves. Are you thinking for wood lagging? It's true that banjo fittings can restrict flow but the fittings that I've made in the pictures flow adequate for this sized engine otherwise I would not have used them and taken the much simpler route of normal tube unions.
-
To look more like the flanged ends of full size cylinders, that was the idea.
-
Okay that makes sense now. :-))
However usually the flanges on a full sized cylinder block are the same diameter of the cylinder covers. What gives a full sized cylinder block the appearance of flanges is the recessed area in between either end of the cylinder. On full sized cylinders this recessed area cuts weight or the mass of the casting itself and it's typically filled with insulation or lagging of some sorts. Although it seems that almost every steam cylinder block has these recessed areas or flanges, I can tell you from first hand experience that a number of the cylinders on our full sized equipment do not, nor do they have lagging wrapped around them. I'll try to take some photos of this maybe tomorrow when I'm at the other shop where we keep our big steam toys at.
-
Sure, please do. I know cylinders can be made in almost any shape and size (I've even seen curved ones, and working, honest!).
It's just that flanged-ended ones look (to me at least) particularly nice.
-
Well I would consider changing the design but I just got finished spending a ungodly amount of hours making a few hundred of the cylinders and covers. O0
-
If not asked already ( I'm struggling with these varifocal lenses) bore & stroke please ?
-
The same question was asked on another forum but I don't think it was asked here yet? The bore is 5/16" and the stroke is 7/16".
-
I have to say Nick this is looking like a beautiful little engine and certainly meets all the requirements I could think of, namely, 'O' ring rod glands, screwed cylinder covers, brass control valve faces, ball bearings and even bronze running surfaces.
If you can keep it below $500.00 it deserves to do well.
-
Nick, any news about the engine?
-
Hey Nick...here is one there look a littel bit like yours,,,bot with water pump built in....
Regards Bernhard
-
Is this a Hemmens? So much metal frame for 2 tiny cylinders...
-
hi.........i think so...sold on Ebay a few days ago... 172£...........
-
I couldn't tell you what it is but I'm quite sure it's not a Hemmens, nor is it a Cheddar engine that i recognise.
I'm sure someone out there will identify it.
-
That is an old Hemmens York engine. The really early ones were usually painted green.
Hi Kno3,
Which engine are you referring to for news? The Cirrus engine or the pictures of the cylinders on the full sized engines that I was going to take photos of for you? In regards to the full sized engines I was in such a hurry to get to the other shop where we keep the big toys at, that I forgot my camera. However one of the other guys at the shop had his and took some pictures of the cylinders for me. I've been waiting for him to email them to me.
-
Nick.....what are the three small round burn marks on the top surface of your good wife's rose wood lounge room display case? ....they seem to be displayed in many .jpgs >>:-(
Have you been using the oxy-aceteylene in there? :o ....Derek
-
Hi Derek,
I think those are actually either small knots where branches were or insect borrow holes when the lamination was cut from the tree? I'm not sure exactly. This is actually the surface of my office desk not the Misses lounge room table. Her rose wood table is currently covered in other steam items. %)
Build Progress Update:
With the other machines all humming away making parts, I managed to write some more programs and tool up the other machines to get them up and running making some more bits and pieces to this engine puzzle.
On today's menu we are serving a five course meal of pistons, bronze gland adjusters, trunnion spring covers, displacement lubricators and the intake/exhaust manifold. Desert will be announced later once I figure out what it will be.
The displacement lubricator will be welded to the intake/exhaust manifold and then painted blue to match the engine. I'm hoping to get this done sometime tomorrow morning in between baby sitting the all the machines once I have them all back up and running. The two long brass manifold extensions will remain polished brass though. Also, I can't wait to get the trunnion shafts for the cylinders all made so that I can finally get rid of those two hideous long bolts currently holding the cylinders in place.
I have to get back to writing programs now and then it's off to bed finally.
-
Nice work! Am I correct to assume that the lubricator & exhaust manifold unit can be mounted reversed (that is, to the right) too?
-
Nick,
Simply beautiful! Question, is Dave the first customer of the new Cirrus. The man has little self control when it comes to steam engines :)
Hey, on another post saw the tip on cleaning the gas jets. Thanks. Had a couple that have been troublesome. Didn't realize there was a component in the gas that would cause buildup. Always assumed the butane/propane was unadulterated - like my homebrew.
Tom
-
Hey Everyone,
Sorry for the long over due build update. My only excuse is I've been working a lot of long and late hours for the last two weeks and have been too tired to spend time on the computer. Tonight is the first night that I've managed to get home from the shop at a decent hour (before midnight) so I thought I should take some photos of what progress has been happening with the engine.
The crankshaft that has appeared in the previous photos was temporarily borrowed from a Heron engine. Last week we finally made the correct stainless steel crank discs, crank throw pins and crankshaft. The next parts that were made were the bronze trunnion spring bushings and the bronze piston rod big ends. After those parts were completed, work finally began on the stainless steel piston rods and cylinder trunnion shafts. The stainless steel crankshaft, throw pins, cylinder trunnions and piston rods were all center-less ground to final size to both ensure consistent diameter tolerances within .0002" and also to ensure a high quality smooth surface finish. This is important since the piston rods would be in linear contact with the lower cylinder cover o-rings and the cylinder trunnion shafts would be in rotationally pivoting in the engine frame. Rough surface finishes on these parts would have prematurely worn the other engine components that came in contact with them.
The next parts that needed to be made were the brass hex nuts which thread onto the trunnion shafts. I decided to make these instead of buying them since all the hex nuts that I could find out there that were readily available were all either too big too thin or basically just plain ugly. I could have just purchased the ugly ones and called it a day but I've grown rather fond of beating my head against the wall these days.
I decided to paint a couple of the engines in the burgundy color that we use on the Sparrow engines. Please, I would like to hear your feedback on what you all think of the Cirrus engines painted in this color opposed to the blue. Depending on all your feedback the engines are going to be painted and offered in one of those colors not both since we do all the painting in large batches.
I'm still experimenting with a couple of the smaller parts on this engine, namely the throttle/directional valve retaining apparatus. Originally I was going to use a simple spring to apply pressure to the valve holding it to the port face but decide to use a more compact arrangement as what you see in the previous photos. This design uses a compressed o-ring sandwiched between the back of the valve and the guide bushing, but I'm not 100% sold on the design yet which is why I'm still experimenting with it. Now that pretty all the parts are completed for the engine to run besides the components that go into the mystery mounting hole next to the crankshaft I decide to shift my attention temporarily back over to the boiler project. The boiler received new upper and lower sight glass fittings which I think are more in-scale with the size of the boiler. I modeled these fittings after larger fittings used on some of our full sized boilers. The boiler also received the final compact burner design which tucks neatly under the engine's intake/exhaust manifold. Every effort has been taken to keep this steam plant as light weight and compact as possible. The total weight for the steam plant so far with the completed engine and boiler including the mounting base is 46.5 ounces.
P.S. BTW, Those are not blemishes in the paint on the engine photos. I didn't realize how much dust was clinging to the engine and various other parts during the taking of the photos till after I put the camera away and started looking at the pictures. Sorry.
Hi Kno3,
Yup you are correct, the lubricator manifold can be reversed if needed.
-
Beautiful.... :-))
Would it be possible to post a pic with an object along side it to get an idea of scale ?
-
wow, looking wonderful nick absolutely love the red coulour same as the sparrow engine i prefer it much better than the blue ,its great having youre input on this forum and i dont no if it would be posible but it would be great to see a picture of you and your machine shop , best wishes allan .
-
It looks great Nick. Another beautiful piece of jewelry. As far as color is concerned, the red is nice but I always equate the blue with Monahan - sort of like Henry Ford with Black.
Might be heading out to San Mateo third week in July - if I don't change employers.
Tom
-
Beautiful.... :-))
Would it be possible to post a pic with an object along side it to get an idea of scale ?
I would be happy to post another picture with an object along side of it. Is there any particular object you might like me to use? To give a general idea of size for now the stainless steel base plate that the boiler and engine are mounted on is 6 1/4" long by 2 11/16" wide. So in other words the steam plant will fit into the palm of your hand.
Thanks Allan,
It's good to hear your feedback. I see if I can take some photo's of the shop sometime when it's not such a disaster. Normally the shop is keep so clean you can eat off the floor but due to the long hours of chaotic working things have gotten tuned upside down.
Hey Tom,
I should be around in the third week of July so if you would like to stop by the shop again that would be great. We are putting on the "All steam boat event" again in San Francisco on August 8th. It's too bad you could not post pone your trip until then so you could attend the event.
-
I would be happy to post another picture with an object along side of it. Is there any particular object you might like me to use?
Can of Coke, packet of Marlboros ? Some may not know the size of a US Quarter... :-)
-
I could include a flask of Jameson whiskey and a pack of Camels since that's what within arms length at the moment. %) {-)
-
Quality items should be compared with another quality item - Scottish Malt {-)
-
Nick, absolutely beautiful, it fair brings a tear to my eyes!
My money is definately on the burgundy as it differentiates your engines from other manufacturers.
Please let me know when I can buy one!!!
-
If you cant make it red?..... :-)).....so burgundy it is
Regards Bernhard
-
Absolutely brilliant Nick. Whilst I dabble in steam a little, I am nowhere near as knowledgeable as many on here & it has been a real eye opener to watch you develop this engine & boiler. Thank you so much for posting this enlightening subject.
personally i prefer the burgundy, but I'm saving to buy one no matter what colour you make them.
Cheers Glenn
-
Hi Nick,
Well done, a really great little engine- all the more exciting as I work with a V-twin at work that resembles this model quite a lot.
One slight criticism- and slight it is- you have gone to the trouble to make proper gland nuts with holes rather than flats- a detail rarely seen on model engines, however the cylinder covers on those excuisite cylinders have huge hexagons on the top to tighten them in- surely something a little more elegant if the engine goes into production could be devised- at list for the top covers?
Greg
-
The engine looks even better in burgundy Nick. I would also like to see the cylinders painted though, as well as the water gauge fittings (of course in burgundy). The shorter water gauge fittings suit the boiler better.
But you still left that ring/hole in the engine frame, what is it for - a pump?
I can't see a gas tank in the pictures. Is there room for it on the same base plate?
-
What was the statement Kno3 ?? Oh yes, Give the guy a break {-)
Yes, you still haven't told us what the rogue hole is for Nick. To hang it up with??
Super job,(AGAIN) and a fitting "Back end" to the boiler, but another "Through flo" Lubricator?
Regards Ian.
-
The rouge hole next to the crank shaft is for attaching a key chain ring or for wearing the engine as a necklace. {-)
Just kidding of course. That will be the next stage of the build. We're not done yet. The engines are ready at this point. The rouge hole is for an optional accessory.
Kno3,
There is room that was left on the base plate next to the oil trap for the a refillable fuel tank. That will be another optional accessory since not everyone will require it.
Boatmadman,
The Scottish Malt is saved for celebrations. The Jameson is the day to day workhorse lubricant around the shop! O0
Greg,
How the heck are you! It's great to hear from you. I hope the move went smoothly and you and yours are all settle in now.
I appreciate your feedback and honesty with the cylinder head covers but I should mention two things. As each new part has appeared on the post, literally anywhere from a hundred to a few hundred where also made depending on what the part was. Although many parts were made in these quantities, some parts were only made in very limited quantities. There is enough parts to build roughly 30 complete engines to start with. If the engine proves to be successful then we will produce the rest of the missing parts to complete another 100 engines.
I have to say I did think long and hard about the hex shape on the cylinder covers before making the final decision to implement it into the design. The hex is only 1/4" so it's small. I had to think about what tools would be available to most folks out there who need to remove the cylinder covers. Just one of the ideas I had originally thought of, was making a special drilled hole pattern into the cylinder covers instead of the hex shape which would have required use to supply a special tool for removing the covers. Then I thought this tool could get lost and then people would be up a creek without a paddle so I opted for the hex shape. I guess in the end what is nice is the covers are removable so if someone would like to change the cover to a design they would much more prefer, than they could easily do so.
So it sounds so far that the burgundy color is the much more preferred color?
-
Nick, how long are you going to keep the rogue hole mystery going on? :D
Burgundy looks great indeed.
-
hi nick ,great set up any information on the steaming time you're expecting without a water pump ,by the way the new burgundy colour was always going to be a winer, allan
-
Hi Allen,
Steaming times should range anywhere from 20minutes running the engine flat out at top speed with no load to 35minutes just moving along at a scale speed. The longer run times are more dependent on prop size and engine speed.
Kno3,
I was thinking of keeping the rogue hole an on going mystery forever just like the Bermuda triangle but since it's the final stage in the engine build I'll just go ahead and spill the beans now. As many of you had already guessed it's for mounting the optional crank driven water pump.
Ian,
Thanks for the kind compliments! I was going to offer a different style of lubricator but I was trying to keep costs down for now. A adjustable metering type of lubricator was what I originally had in mind so I design the current manifold to be easily removable for upgrades later for those of you who need them. The current lubricator shown on the engine works great though and it only has a 1mm orifice in it to properly meter the oil consumption.
Everyone,
At this point the engines with out the water pumps are ready for purchase so I've gone ahead and put some temporary pictures and descriptions up on the website so they can be available for purchase. The production run of the optional water pumps is starting now and I imagine they'll be finished within a week or so depending on how many work hours we can fit into a day. The Vertical steam plants are also now available on the website. The waiting period for those will be slightly longer than the engines due to the fact they will be built and assembled per order until we have a chance to build up an already assembled inventory of them.
Although I produced enough parts to make over a hundred of these engines, a few key parts I only produced in limited quantities for the time being until we see how popular these engines are with folks. There's enough parts for now to build 30 engines. Some will be sold with steam plants I imagine so who knows how long the first batch will last. It's any ones guess at this point. I've done my best to keep the prices as low as possible for the amount of work that has gone into the parts for each engine and boiler. It's up to you guys now. As it stands now the price shown on the website will be introductory until a firm grasp of all the assembly labor can be figured out and scaled. The price will not be going any lower I can already assure you of that unless we start selling an unholy amount of these little buggers.
The build is not over yet!!!!!!
We still have a optional water pump to make and the optional refillable fuel tank. I have a gut feeling that another boiler option will be available too in the not so distant future.
At some point very soon maybe tomorrow hopefully, video of the engine running will be taken and posted on youtube.
I have to say that I'm very happy with the way the engine runs. It's quite with almost zero vibration. It reminds me of a little sewing machine. This is definitely an engine I'm proud to put my name on.
-
Work began over the weekend on the crankshaft driven water pump.
The main pump body shown in the pictures is made up of three parts which get silver soldered together. The main pump body snugly fits into the socket in the main engine frame. The output fitting that will screw into the front o the pump where it passes through the engine frame will lock the pump into place. The pump's piston is made from stainless steel. The bore and stroke of the pump is 1/8" by 7/16".
There's more parts that go to the pump so stay tuned.
-
That is a beautifully neat arrangement Nick. The best designs are always so simple.
-
Thanks Richard,
Trust me it looks simple now that it's done but figuring out that little pump took many hours, many different designs and a whole bucket full of curse words. I must have designed 20 different pumps to work with this engine most of which were absolutely hideous and out of scale. A lot of the designs just didn't go with the rest of the look of the engine. Finally one night after working on what must have been the 20th design, around 2 o'clock in the morning I laid the ground work for the final design you see here. Wait till you see the rest of the goodies that bolt onto it.
-
Macro digital photography is unforgiving on hard objects. That passes with flying colours.... Simply stunning... :-))
-
Aha, so there's finally some light in the hole mystery! :D
Is the pump going to be driven by a scotch yoke, or is it oscillating?
-
Yup, The pump is going to be driven with a scotch yoke.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Phqsga3CZAI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyybgGiJXeg
-
Great...sweet one it is,,,, :-)),,,.......And it don't spit water allover the hole place?..........What psi..will it be working at,,,,,,,,,and is it thirsty?
Regards Bernhard
-
Thanks Bernhard,
I've been running this engine at varying pressures. Its happy doing work at pressures from 15psi up to 55psi. It goes like a bat out of hell at 55psi though. In the video the pressure was varying between 20-40. The cylinders aren't using a 100% filling of steam so it's economical on steam consumption. Although as you can see from the video the engine doesn't spit much at all, don't be fooled. It still spits! Have you heard that expression, "say it don't spray it"? I'd say it probably spits about that much.
-
A smooth runner, very nice. I'm not sure what you mean by 100% filling as being economical, could you explain? I thought a lower filling percentage to allow for some for steam expansion and is more economical. Not that this would be of great concern in a little model engine, just curious.
-
Hi Calin,
Sorry for the misunderstanding.
The cylinders are not being filled 100%. If you go back and read my post again, you'll see I used the word "aren't" being filled 100%.
-
So obviously the downside of that is that you will not have as much power available. It would be interesting to see just what size and displacement of model this engine would power. I do have a Richmond that has been made with 8mm pistons and it pushes 35 pounds of model at way above scale speed so I'm sure this would be comparable.
-
Hi BB,
The cylinders are being filled about 85% so there's not much if any power loss.
Build Update:
Well I managed to get some more parts made for the water pump this week.
Since the last build update I made the Input/Output Banjo bolts for the water pump. The banjo bolts house the one way check valve fittings as well as they also severe the purpose of holding the Input/Output Banjo fittings in place. I also managed to get the both the Input Banjo fittings made as well as the Output Banjo fitting. The Output Banjo fitting has a 3/16"-40 threaded boss for attaching either a bypass valve as shown in the pictures below or you have the option of screwing on a 3/16"-40 to 1/4"-40 instead and running a copper line further away from the engine to bypass valve. The Output Banjo fitting is also cross drilled for silver soldering on the 5/32" copper output line which leads to the boiler's check valve. The Input Banjo fitting is threaded 1/4"-40. The banjo fittings can be swiveled around their axis to accommodate most plumbing requirements.
The next part to be made was the water pump's piston gland nut. I modeled the looks of this part exactly after gland nuts that are commonly found on full sized make-up feed water pumps. We have way too many of these full sized steam water pump's kicking around our other shop. You almost can't walk anywhere with out tripping over one of them.
The final part that needed to be made was the scotch yoke which threads onto the 1/8" stainless steel water pump piston. Well the water pump is now complete. I'm very happy with the way everything with the pump turned out and the final look as well as layout of it all.
The next stage of the build will the optional refillable fuel tank.
-
Goodness Nick...those last three snaps "Cirrus w Pump" 1a, 2a & 3a... superlatives in comment ...would be difficuilt to offer O0.....Derek
PS ...I notice those three branch off take marks still feature in your desk top {-) O0 ;D photographs.........
-
PS ...I notice those three branch off take marks still feature in your desk top {-) O0 ;D photographs.........
Ha! If you saw my desk then you'd understand! Those three spots happen to be right smack dab in the middle of the only clear spot on the desk! {-) O0
-
Nick, it's looking even better now. I notice the feed water pipe goes into the firebox, probably to pre-heat the water. Good idea!
There's one thing I don't quite understand. The pump's piston/cylinder extends past the fittings for intake and output ending in a cul-de-sac. So did you carve some small channels in there for the water to move or...?
-
Kno3,
Yup, there are channels cut inside the water pump to allow the water to circulate to the inlet and outlet fittings. Great eye for noticing that!
P.S. I got a little side tracked at the shop today and made this boiler. It will be the boiler for the Compact Horizontal Cirrus steam plants. Total weight for what you see here is 18 ounces. There are 7 water tubes. I'm going to hydro test it tomorrow morning before I paint it, so that I can begin assembling it.
-
Great! How much water does it hold?
About the pump: would it be possible to see those channels in a pic or drawing?
P.S: How come your cigarettes don't have a big sign saying they cause cancer or any other terrible disease, like those found around here do? Did you happen to find a healthy variety? :}
-
Got a CNC blowtorch as well Nick???? Your Silver Soldering is better than most can achieve with soft solders, AGAIN O0
Regards Ian
-
Great! How much water does it hold?
About the pump: would it be possible to see those channels in a pic or drawing?
P.S: How come your cigarettes don't have a big sign saying they cause cancer or any other terrible disease, like those found around here do? Did you happen to find a healthy variety? :}
I'll post more info on the mini boiler later today maybe. I'm already running late getting down to the shop this morning.
In regards to the pump: Sorry but I'm not willing to let out drawings for it. I can't even begin to tell you or to expect you to understand how long it took to figure out how to make it that compact. Perhaps you should just buy one?
Ian,
Thanks mate. I wish I had a cnc blow torch! It's taken years and hundreds of projects to hone my silver soldering techniques and I still manage to muck things up though on occasion. We have what we call "The box of Shame" hidden upstairs in a dark corner of our shop. All the silver soldering jobs that went south end up in there. O0 One of these days I'm going to have to dig a deep hole and throw the box in. {-)
-
We have what we call "The box of Shame" hidden upstairs in a dark corner of our shop. All the silver soldering jobs that went south end up in there. O0 One of these days I'm going to have to dig a deep hole and throw the box in. {-)
I think you should put them on show just to give us mere mortals confidence that we can get better if we try hard enough and long enough!
-
I think you should put them on show just to give us mere mortals confidence that we can get better if we try hard enough and long enough!
I'm afraid the photos would be fairly graphic. I'd hate to give you all nightmares for weeks.
Quick Build Update:
So I got the new little brat boiler finished today! The total finished weight is 17 ounces dry. I filled up the boiler with water leaving about 5/8" clearance from the inside top of the boiler shell to leave room for steam. The water capacity for the boiler filled to this level is 200ml exactly.
This boiler will be part of the new Compact series of Cirrus steam plants. There will also be a Compact Vertical boiler exactly like the Vertical already shown in these posts, however the only difference will be the Compact version will be slightly shorter.
There will also be another horizontal boiler that will look like the Compact only longer. This boiler will be the equivalent to the standard sized Vertical boiler for the Cirrus plants. So to re-cap there will be four small boiler total for the Cirrus engines. Two Compact boilers and two standard sized boilers. The Compact series of boilers are referred to as the Cloverdale boilers and the standard sized series of boilers are referred to as the Hadley's.
I'm really excited about the new Compact horizontal boilers because I have a 24" tugboat that I built about 18 years ago that has been itching for a mini steam plant to be installed in it.
-
The total finished weight is 17 ounces dry.
I just noticed the typographical error I made earlier. The finished boiler weight is not 17 ounces it is 27 ounces.
-
I think I am going to have to buy a waterproof keyboard.
The little brat boiler looks fantastic.
Regards,
Gerald.
-
If you're not careful, you could have a market for them there boilers Nick.
-
Thanks guys!
If you're not careful, you could have a market for them there boilers Nick.
Oh man that would be nice! Maybe even then I could afford to stop eating Top Ramen Noodles for dinner and be able step up to buying hot dogs! {-) {-) {-)
So now I'm curious as to what will I have to produce and sell to be able to afford a nice steak every once and awhile?! %) ;D {-) That sounds so good right now I'm open to hear suggestions! O0
-
1) How about a water level control device that works on something really simple like a mechanical linkage on a float. This could incorporate a flange with a float and a magnet on the inside and on the outside another magnet that follows the internal one and operates a linkage connected to the water by pass valve.
2) A proper positive displacement engine driven lubricator of the type the railway lads use.
3) A gas tank heater that is controlled by the tank discharge gas pressure thus ensuring consistent outlet gas pressure before going to a gas regulator valve that controls the burner according to the boiler pressure. A bit of a gas attenuator valve - heater control valve combo!!
4) A device that cuts off the burner when the boiler runs dry.
5) A seperator that guarrantees no condensate is discharged so the exhaust doesn't spit on the model before it gets up to temperature.
6) A brass controllable pitch propeller with a range of interchangeable blades all using the same foot so you can select the diameter you want for your model.
Just a few off the wall ideas, all a bit tongue in cheek, but which may generate some train of thought that might lead to something a bit more viable.
-
I'm not religious but, Oh my dear lord, Bunkerbarge! Congratulations!
You just managed to name almost every single new product we have been working on. Are you some sort of spy? Do I need to be looking over my shoulder every so often now? {-)
However to be fair you missed a few and I'm keeping those under wraps for now. %)
-
BTW, I should add a few things:
1.) The mechanical magnetic float idea we already have tried two months ago and due to how large the float needs to be in relation to properly and accurately operating even the lightest strongest magnet we could source, the whole set up would have to be way out of scale. So we managed to come up with other similar interesting designs.
2.) The new Cirrus engine was actually slated to originally have a mechanical lubricator but the price of the engine would have increased so much that it would've not made sense to buy it. However the next engine you'll be seeing roliing out of our shop very soon will have one.
3.) Gas attenuators scheduled to arrive shortly which is why there's a section for them on our website now, but in respects to the gas tank chilling issue, for the last year we've been switching our focus over to using the liquid elements of the butane/propane and the results are amazing so far.
4.) The gas cut off device is finished and ready for production. Coming soon.
5.) I emailed you some photo's the other day of a 3 drum new water tube boiler which happens to incorporate a design feature that guaranties non spitting of the condensate tank and the no longer need of draining the condensate only used steam oil. However I didn't mention that to you in the email.
6.) Developed the brass variable pitch propeller with removable blades almost 3 years ago but never put it into production due to the lack of interest shown for it by local steam enthusiasts.
-
Okay one last thing (I promise) I want to add to this post since we got on the topic of gently heating a butane/propane tank to steady the output pressure of the gas.
I've found that while gently heating the gas tanks works very well (and I don't think I need to add the bit about safety here) one thing anyone who is considering attempting this may want to add to the system is a simple gas pressure output regulator. I don't mean a gas attenuator. I've found that while gas tank chilling can affect output pressure dropping and cause serious burner performance losses the same is true with heating tanks. I'll explain. The warmer the tank gets, the higher the gas output pressure becomes. In my own personal experiments, even while only gently warming the tank some times the gas pressure would increase so much so that it can make the flame stand off of the burner element causing the burner to either extinguish at times or at least become very unstable with the threat of extinguishing. By installing properly designed gas pressure regulator in-between the gas tank's output valve and the burner, the regulator will only allow a certain continuous pressure to be feed to the burner despite what the pressure may be in the tank itself.
P.S. I've really tried hard over the years to keep how many posts I make on the steam sections on this forum down to a minimum because I do not want to hog these sections of the forum. I also try to keep my posts down to info I think may be helpful others.
-
Hi.............i use a gas Attenuator from Anton,,,and a gas regulator to...i was told that i only neat it, if the gas tank get pressure over 45 psi,,,my steamplant sit on copper,,so it get hot ,,bot i have some very thin wood under the gastank ,so ,it stay on 30-40 psi now.......here is one from Germany
Regards Bernhard
http://www.dampfmodellbau-keifler.de/
-
Nick, it is time people were led by the hand and shown the benefits of variable pitch props, then you will have created a new market. I have always liked the principle and of course you will be aware that it is quite common in full size practise. Although I have only played around with a couple of them they do work extremely well. I have not tried it out yet but I am sure that it would be possible to do away with the throttle control and just use the pitch to control speed. My only concern with that is that the engine might rev too hard when the prop is in the neutral position. The concept of one hub with alternative blades is a good one so best you take the plunge and put them on the market. I would certainly be happy to test one and then offer them to my customers. The noodles are probably good for you so put all the turnover back in to R & D and marketing, think what the steak would do for your figure! Cheers, Ian.
-
We must certainly be thinking in the same way Nick.
As for gas supplies the arrangement below incorporates a gas tank with a copper heat shunt giving some heat from the seperator tank. This is nothing more than a copper saddle with foam insulation around it which sits across the two tanks. You can just see the edge of the insulation.
To control and stabilise the output from the gas tank the first valve in line is a pressure regulating valve which does nothing more than stabilise the outlet pressure to the next valve, which is the control valve for the burner, which operates from pilot flame to full flame dependent on the input signal from the boiler. I've always thought it would be an interesting excercise to combine these two functions by possibly controlling the heat input into the gas tank.
I can't believe that you have already been playing around with so many of the ideas!!
-
As for Controllable pitch propellers I consider myself to be very lucky in managing to obtain one a few years ago from a guy I bought a model from. It's brass and needed the bearing changeing but it's a beautifully made little unit. I've always thought how easy it would be to have varying sized blades to be able to offer a range of prop sizes.
As for speed control the easiest way is to use what you find on real ships, which are generally known as a combinator. You would have to design an appropriate linkage but basically the servo which controls the prop also controls the speed of the engine so when at zero pitch the engine is at idle and when at full pitch the engine is at full revs. The linkage would have to allow zero to full control of the engine for two different directions of prop movement but I have seen it done.
-
I suspect that the lack or success originally is as a result of there being so mnay fully controllable engines on the market making the Controllable prop redundant. If however you were to design a much simpler engine, that could be manufactured a lot cheaper than a reversing one, i.e. a Heron without the reversing gear, then you could offset the costs of the CPP and make it a much more attractive proposition.
Just think, a Heron with reversing gear or a Heron with a CPP as two alternative packages. :-))