Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Working Vessels => Topic started by: John W E on January 11, 2007, 10:49:59 pm
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Hi ya there lads,
Whilst searching for other information on certain naval vessels - I came across a set of plans that I had stowed away for the Seaforth Conqueror - so, as normally happens ;D you get sidetracked. So, Ive started searching the web for information about her. Apart from a couple of sites on Google which just shows a model of her - there is no real information about her.
Any of you lads out there got any further information about her:
where is she now?
is she still in one piece?
what she doing?
or, is she a new BMW CAR
OR a SKODA
Next question for all you tug lads:
can you tell me what is a Portable Gogeye? as I noticed on the plans I have (freebies from Model boats) - a Gogeye is drawn on the plan view - but, not on the sideview.
Can you give me a description of actually what it is and what it does - as this looks like another possible build rather than a grey - cause the information for that grey is getting more difficult to get hold of.
Aye
JOHN E
BLUEBIRD
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Well....if you towed straight off the hook and the job got too far off track and got alongside you a bit, theres a real danger of capsizing the tug...or 'girting' as its sometimes called.
The gog eye is length of cable with an eye on, or a fitting on deck that effectively moves the point of effort much further back, hence removing most of the capsize risk. Modern towing practice uses wahst called 'indirect towing' to use the boat itself as a sort of paravane to enhance the stated bollard pull of the tug, towing the the twoed vessel left or right of her line making much more versatile control.
The point at which shes 'gogged down' is very important as if done too far aft of the turning point of the rudders, the tug will lose some of her own steerage, a movable gog would mean that she could adjust the length of cable with gog eye on the end, giving the best of both worlds. A portable gog would would be either in position... or not!
I think Conqueror may wekk have whats called 'Karm Forks' though, these are raised up from the deck when required, or retracted when not......any help?
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Hiya Penguin, is the bight of rope I have seen chucked over the towing line and made fast down aft on harbour tugs a simplified 'gog' ? I never knew there was a whole new nautical vocabulary connected to towing. You never stop learning as they say. ???
best regards
MikeK
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Hi ya there Blazing thanks for the info on the Gogeye - that makes sense I now understand - just away to scan in some hull sections. & locate suitable ply for frames
back later thanks
Aye
John E
BLUEBIRD
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Blimey...dont want to get all 'grammatical'.....
The eye on the end of the rope, or the fixed/removable eye on the aft deck is the 'gog' eye, when using this particular towing principle, the rope is said to be 'gogged down'. Gogging being a technique and all the eyes etc, the method of puttting that into practice. The term 'gog' will also vary by region to be 'gob' etc....but still all the same idea.
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I am agog at all this new information ! (sorry) ;D ;D
MikeK
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Hi ya there Blazing - now we have your attention ;D can you help me with this next set of queries:
on the plans, she has several pipes, some of them are labelled CEMENT DISCHARGES what would they be carrying cement for? is it for ballast? wonder what they are for?? any clues??
do you know if she every had a 'A' frame on her stern? or any lifting device?
help is appreciated :D
Hey MikeK - I have a message for you from Ernie - he says
"Wishing you and your family all the best - and he says he has just invested in one of these new American Radio controls - and he hasnt won the last 4 yacht races with the thing!!"
Aye
John E
Bluebird
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I have the same plan here I think and can see both sets of discharge outlets, liquid for replenishing OIl Rig fresh water supply maybe, but as for cement...I have no idea! Cant be for ballast as you would never get it out again, and if it was for supply to something offshore it would have to be pretty slow setting stuff.
And can see no mention of any lifting frames anywhere...other pics show huge anchors on the aft deck, but these are manouvered by the winches etc....I think A frames would get in the way on the aft deck unless fitted for a particualr contract maybe?
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thanks there BP
do you have the model boats mag that these free plans came with? I have just trawled through all my back copies and dont have the actual mag with the article in. If you have, woul dyou be so kind to email me the article with photos? If so, it would be much appreciated. thanks again
Aye
John E
BLUEBIRD
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Cement was carried to stop leaks through the 'gaps' made by plate movement and tipped over the side to gently wash into the gap.
I just knew that would come in usefull one day.
The Mersey tugs and the dredgers also carried it,IN bags and Long before such drilling platforms were a dream in their daddies eyes
[I worked for a ships chandlers/engineering company back in the 50's]
My Seaforth Conqueror has not got further than the hull, batteries sorted shafts in, won't take but a few evenings [will it]?
a job for next year perhaps? (house move getting all my attention at the present!
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The seaforth conqueror was operated by SBSL try here http://www.seaforth-maritime.com/ (http://www.seaforth-maritime.com/) or try [email protected]
(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q168/MBmayhem/e8bdc5ea.jpg)
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Hiya John
Thanks for the message from Ernie, please return the greetings. As for the new American radio, he should know by now it's the bloke twiddling the leavers that counts ;D ;D
That thing about cement, I worked for Wimpeys drilling ships for a while and they carried special cement for sealing up the drill holes in the seabed when we were checking out the NCB coal seams under the North Sea (Remember when we had coal mines ??) and I think the rig boats have special tanks for it, no doubt some member of the forum will know.
Gaan cannie marra
MikeK
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Hello all, Cement tanks are used to carry supplies of bulk dry powder out to drilling rigs for use in drilling operations. Most commonly carried is what is known as drilling "mud" a viscous powder of Barytes which allows the drill bit to operate in the seabed. Now it gets all technical and I've come to my limitations of knowledge. I generally go dumb when my mate a Directional Drilling Control Engineer starts telling me about how far off tangentially he's sent a drill bit and at what depths he then change direction. Useless pub stuff interrupts the drinking of whisky ;D
cheers
Jim
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Think I do have the magazine, nota lot in it as i remember....will get back to you ASAP!
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That Wimpey job only scratched the sea bed compared to the big rigs. You mentioning your DDE pal bringing a haze over your eyes, Jim. reminded me of the kinky little magnetic compass the lads used to use to check if the hole was wandering off the vertical. It was a brass gimbaled affair a few inches long that you lowered down the drill string and somehow triggered it at the bottom so the compass locked giving the angle off vertical and which direction the drill was wandering - magic !! :o :o
MikeK
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Hi all,
To refer back to the cement discharge tanks - they must have been a specialised holding tanks and very well sealed to keep the contents (cement) dry in the conditions that these boats work in. Ya learn something every day.
Hi Blazing P look forward to hearing from you and hope you have article.
Aye
BLUEBIRD
JOHN E
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Thats that snookered....plan on PC is for Seaforth Conqueror, plans with magazine are for Pacific Bucaneer, magazine supplies pt 2 so theres nothing there other than then 2nd part of the plan...sorry!
On the other hand...I 'DO' have a hull/plans and a CD Rom with all relevant details of original vessel MV Grampian Pride if your interested?
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(http://img482.imageshack.us/img482/6286/1007928hk1.th.jpg) (http://img482.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1007928hk1.jpg)
Hi all
BP thank you for your time and effort - but, as you can see I have already started cutting the frames out for the model. Thank you once again though for your time and effort for which I am very grateful. I will need to seek out photograps of winches and various other deck fittings similar to the ones which she carried. Any ideas where I can locate any good websites/books etc., for some more information.
Aye
JOHN E
BLUEBIRD
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hi john, while in scotland on one of my shooting trips i took some close up pics of her in aberdeen alongside the clansman, and in montrose a few years ago, do you want them scanned and emailed to you, and im sure the word GOGEYE is when yr pi**ed on that whiskey you consume,,, ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Seaforth Conqueror was an early type oil rig supply vessel, don't know if any of her type are working now, technology has advanced so much and they would be at least 20 years old now. The Seaforth conqueror went aground in 1986, don't know if she was refloated.
see this link
http://www.caister-lifeboat.org.uk/shirley.htm
Andy
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Hi Brian C - have sent you a PM - and I would be grateful for pics.
John E Aye
BLUEBIRD
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(http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/944/1007948yp0.th.jpg) (http://img264.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1007948yp0.jpg)
Hi all, Just to let you see progress so far - finished the planking and skinning with fibre glass - quick rub down on the outside and as always, impatience, Ive lifted it off the building board. Next stage is to make a building stand for her, so I can resin the inside and then commence on the internal fittings.
I may have a go at making my own bow thruster - anyone have any ideas about this? I noticed there was a topic started by someone, but there were no 'takers' on it.
Aye
John E
BLUEBIRD
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Bluethingy,
Could you use 2 car washer pumps but knowing your luck a hose would come off and you would flood the hull or look at www.hpcgears.com part number ZEB0.5-16 bevel gears and make your own thruster. The gears are 1:1 OD of 8.7mm and cost 71p. Look at this link and see if you could construct a similar gearbox http://www.lifeboatmodels.co.uk/atlantic.htm (http://www.lifeboatmodels.co.uk/atlantic.htm) but mounted in the middle of the tube.
Regards
Him that never makes anything ;D
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Hi all,
Just a silly thought.
Could the name of the boat be being miss read. If this a foreign vessel, you know Scottish or something.
Could it be translated into english (please note correct use of capital letters)
SEAFORTH CONCREATER
Bob ;D
In the light of the Big Brother controversy, I will be quite happy to remove this posting if it is thought to be racist.
Don't want my mobile phone cutting off do I
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HEY there Rigthingy (he who never builds nowt) :D aye canny web sites mate - I like the outboard motor - food for thought that.
BobF - Aye now there is a thought :D so when you getting your mobile phone disconnected in case the wee Scots come after ya in their wee SEAFIRTH CONCREATER Kilties Och aye man the noo ;D
Aye
John E
BLUEBIRD
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Hi Bluebird.
This is the same B/thruster I fitted to my typhoon tug,
The Idea & designer was ministeave of the E/port club
It has plenty of thrust it will push a 250LB tanker sideways.
See photo of bow thruster.
Regards
John.
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Have to back up 'Poll' and MiniSteve on their bow thruster, bags of power and relatively easy to make. I can see no reason why the same principles couldnt be scaled down now to fit a particular boat. I liked the idea because I had room at the front of the 'Afon Alaw' hull to get that in, but a more traditional shape....less flat?.....has less room for the monster version, have to check out Poll's Typhoon at some point for that.
On that thruster Poll.....did you try kort props in one, or just got for the high volume racing prop straight off?
I ask because I have a project in mind that will require a severly heavy duty thruster....something around 60mm say...and Im planning on doing on like yours but with a kort?
I made a jig for doing props, so theres no real outlay for commercial ones, build my own to suit experiment etc? Any info appreciated!
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Hi Billy.
We put the plastic 45x in because some times you have to shape the prop
a wee bit [ do you like that a WEE bit ] I'll be sailing with you yet.
I had to do this on the typhoon, the shaft is on a steep angle so I had to shape
the prop to make it fit snug in the tube plus we don't fit a grill on the end of the tube
if you was to get a peace of thick stick up the tube it would break the prop. Not smash the shaft and
tube, Will get a photo for you.
Regards
John.
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The couple I've made now John have been 6mm shaft and with the usable part of the part being almost all 'root' Im thinking that its almost unbreakable, a hefty stall and resultant fried motor and ESC perhaps, but the shaft etc could be ok...maybe?
Scale mesh on the inlets would restrict flow in an instant with a feather or piece of paper drawn onto it....almost a certainty in most ponds. Perhaps on or two bars or a cross or whatever to keep put heavier items, paper then being able to be either flowed through, or hooked out if required?
The props Ive made so far have been 'flat' with no change of agle from root to tip of the blade, the idea being there will be little loss of power in reverse, other than the minimal amount given by most motors against their preferred direction.
I stuck one on a section of shaft, held it in a bucket in the workshop......do you have any idea how far a gallon of cold water can spread across a shed floor??? Result = plenty of thrust in either direction with either 3 or 4 bladed kort props and thats without the benefit of the nozzle too.
Either way you guys have supplied a great idea for a 'BT' other than the various commercial variety!
Bill
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Hi Billy.
Some more pici's not too good but may help, It's a small area in the bow of the typhoon.
Good luck
John.
Ps Some more photo's on the way from Steve.
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hi billy even more pics and some sort of scale to let u know wot sort of size these thrusters are the hull is a portgarth from mmm
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hi all, the information on the bow thrusters has given me lots of food for thought, although I am busy, at the moment, installing the propellors and rudders on the Seaforth. I am keenly watching the information coming in and am building up several ideas about the building of the bow thruster. At the moment all that has been shown has been twice the size I need. The thought now is how to reduce and keep the efficiency of the bow thruster. I have very limited space in the bow. Please keep the information and pics coming in.
Aye
John E
BLUEBIRD
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hi bluebird you can get 20mm overflow pipe i am trying to make a small version but other things have needed my attention will put some pics on when i do make one
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By using a straight coupling Ive managed to shave off a few mm giving a shallower angle Steve/John, but seeing how extreme an angle Johns managed for the Typhoon leads me to think these will fit more than I imagined at first.
The straight coupling is also a lot quiter than the std flex coupling too.
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Hi all, spent most of today and yesterday come to that, trying to design and build a bow thruster similar to those on this Forum thread and the problem I had is the space in the bow. The angle of the prop in the tube is too steep and rather than causing adequate thrust, it tends to agitate the water in the tube.
so.......after soaking the bathroom and gettng wrong off the Mrs - she took pity on me and held me batteries ;D an acted as a switch - we decided to order a Graupener and hope this is delivered tomorrow.
Thanks to Riggers for talking me through resizing pics - hope these pics work.
Aye
John E
BLUEBIRD
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Going back to the portable gogeye, Blazing Penguin is right if only a conventional straight tug is considered but the Conqueror wasn't. The reason why you may have a portable gogeye shown in plan but not in elevation is simply because it was portable and thus wasn't always there! ;D The 'Conk' as she was known, was an anchor-handling-tug-supply-vessel (AHTS) which sometimes was used for towing/anchor-handling. When used as a supply vessel, the presence of a large forged-steel gogeye (think of an oval fairlead about 3' high) used only when towing etc. and planted in the centre of the deck, would seriously interfere with cargo stowing operations. Thus the gogeye was made to be unbolted (portable) such that it could be moved away from the cargo deck and stowed out of the way. When in use, the tow wire was run through the gogeye. Maersk vessels often used a similar system.
Cement (Barytes) tanks were sealed silos used for the carriage of powder cargos and discharged by compressed air. Liquid mud (cement) if carried, was discharged by scroll pumps. In powder form the barytes was mixed originally with diesel (later on with water when environmental concerns were addressed). The mud was used in drilling operations partly to lubricate/cool the drill bit and partly to fill the well behind/above the drill bit and counterbalance the pressure of any oil entering the well. Calculating the density of the mud was a bit of a black art and performed by so-called 'mud engineers'; we real engineers often took offence at the term and put them in the same category as Drillers and similar riff-raff. ;D
Several of the early Seaforth vessels did have A-frames at the stern but they were all later removed as being of no real benefit.
Hope this clarifies things.
Regards
BarryM
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Hi there Barry M
thank you very much for this information - obviously you must have sailed on these ships/sailed for Seaforth - the most difficult part about building anything like this is obtaining photographs - you dont have any do you?
Thank you again for the information
Aye
John E
BLUEBIRD
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where is she now?
is she still in one piece?
what she doing?
or, is she a new BMW CAR
OR a SKODA
Not a lot of info on the web about her, she went for scrap in Mexico i think in the late 90's
there is a scale model of her in the Merseyside Maritime Museum, if i can find the pictures i will post them.
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Red Dragon thank you very much - it would be much appreciated if you could post the pics
aye
john e
bluebird
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Hi there Barry M
thank you very much for this information - obviously you must have sailed on these ships/sailed for Seaforth - the most difficult part about building anything like this is obtaining photographs - you dont have any do you?
Thank you again for the information
Aye
John E
BLUEBIRD
John,
I never sailed on Seaforth vessels but spent half my career in the N Sea oil game. Now retired from it all I do not have any photos of Seaforth vessels but may be able to get something via friends who are still toiling away. If I do, I'll send them on.
Cheers,
Barry M
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Just a thought from a non-tug builder...
Does a bow thruster tube have to be transverse? If you've no space in the bows, what would be wrong with making a U shaped tube (as seen from above, with all the curves smooth, the tops of the U turning out to the sides of the hull). Then you could mount the thruster axially inside one of the straight sections, running fore-and-aft along the hull.
Sure, there'd be a few friction losses, and the addition of joints might slightly increase the risks of leaks, but you could counter all that with a bigger motor and copious filler over the pipework.
The water doesn't care if it's sent around corners...at least it doesn't when it comes out of the taps in my house!
Andy
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The Seaforth Conqueror was later the Boa Conqueror and then Toisa Conqueror. Searching on Boa Conqueror drew a blank but Toisa Conqueror throws up a few leads.
Of use?
Barry M
PS. You can bend the internal trunk for a bow (or stern) thruster into a corkscrew if you want as long as the water is ejected sideways out the hull. Internal losses in our scales would be negligible.
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John,
I've drawn a blank withe last operators of the Seaforth Conqueror and an oil-industry shipbroker, both of whom would normally be expected to have specs and other info. The problem is that she has been out of the game for so long that most info has been put in File 13 (the bin). I have one more iron in the fire but I'm not optimistic even with promises of beer for info. Will let you know if anything turns up.
The only other route I can think of is an apporach to the builders who would certainly maintain G.A's etc on file. A letter accompanied by photo's of the buld may persuade them to provide info.
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Hi
Cheers for your efforts for trying to locate pictures for me. Much appreciated - this is the build so far
80% of the electrics are in - just the winch and the pump for the fire monitors. Debating whether the winch will be a working one or not, also debating whether to have working navigation lights or not.
Aye
John E
BLUEBIRD
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hi all , well the fire monitor pumps working well - washed the bathroom down a treat
aye
John E
BLUEBRD
PS the face says it all, when the Mrs walked in Camera in hand!
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Bluebird,
Having tried the last owners, a shipbroker and a former charterer for construction details, all I could come up with was the offer of a loan of the Stability Booklet. This would not be of use to you and so I'm declaring defeat on this one.
Barry M
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hi ya there Barry M - thank you very much for all your efforts on this - this is really good of you. Obviously the Stability Booklet would have been of little use but it is very good of you to have done all of this digging and research for me.
There is another thread on this forum of the Seaforth Conqueror but Martin is moving things about so he may have chucked the thread and model in the bin ;D
aye
john e
bluebird