Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Model Boating => Topic started by: GrafVonJon on September 09, 2010, 05:46:11 pm
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Got my first boat today... Battery is charging as I type!
It's the RC Systems Kingfisher.
Have it all assembled but noticed a couple of oddities:
There was no lead to connect the battery, after searching the box thoroughly, taking everything apart, I had to run back to the shop and get a terminal and some wires. Have those all soldered now.
Also, the receiver has the controls (speed unit and rudder servo) connected to CH7 and CH8, and not CH1 and CH2 as stated in the instructions. Should I change these, or trust that they are correct? IE is there any risk of damage if it doesn't work? or will it just mean I can swap them over after testing it if nothing happens?
Finally, I'm a bit worried about water getting under the deck and into the battery/receiver/speed unit etc. I've seen another post on here where another member has put strips of neoprene under the deck. I have no neoprene but do have some silicone sealant. Would it be ok to run some of this around the edge of the deck and leave to dry... Hopefully creating a water tight seal tomorrow when I screw the deck back down?
Any tips would be great,I don't want to ruin my first boat on her maiden voyage!
Thanks,
GVJ
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Err, Help!
Just turned the transmitter on, followed by the receiver.
Once I turn the receiver on, it emits a loud noise. Almost like a series of beeps. Sound a bit like interference but all the same pitch noise.
It's pretty loud - I can hear it in other rooms!
Surely that's not normal, is it?
Have I done something wrong?
The noise seems to stop when i turn the prop or rudder, but comes straight back as soon as i release the controls.
Anyone?
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The noise is coming from the motor.
Moving the rudder servo doesn't stop it, sorry.
The motor still emits the noise at low speeds.
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My Robbe speed controller does that as well, bloody annoying
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try moving the trims - the small levers alongside the joysticks.
Barrie
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I adjusted the trims and it stops the noise at idle.
The motor still makes the noise at low revs though, but stops doing it 'flat out'.
I guess what I need to know is, is it damaging anything or just an annoyance?
If it's only annoying, then I can put up with it for now and upgrade to a different speed unit later (IE the weekend!)
Can't believe I just got my first boat and parts need changing already!!! {:-{
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Its just annoying, AND there's no guarantee another make will be any quieter. Certainly the Mtroniks ones are prone to this effect. ACtion and Electronize are less so. You can't buy the former in a shop - maybe Electronize. When you get it out on the water you wont hear it.
Barrie
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my esc's all bleeppppppppppppppp when running in low speed, its normal don't worry about it battery's in electric boats only last for around the 10 min mark so it may be worth using 2 battery's in parallel to increase your run time. other options are to disconnect the bec from the esc ( battery eliminator circuit) its the red cable .. of the 3 and use a receiver battery pack this will give you a few more Min's run time.
in regards to sealing the boats entry points you can use some sort of foam stick it in place with some contact adhesive or you can use silicone but you should use that in a certain way to get a full water proof seal, wrap the parts that slot over the hatch with some cling film, put silicone around the hatch area then take the cling film wrapped part(s) and slide it in place (carfully don't tear the cling film! let the silicon go off , once dry remove the part and remove the cling film, your hatch will be perfectly sealed to the superstructure part :-))
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Prophet, Don't know what boat and battery combination you have, but I certainly get more than 10 mins run time from my boats - even a fairly quick Swordsman with a 7.2volt battery gives me a least 20. My scale boats with SLA batteries give considerably more than that - I usually get bored before the battery runs down :} The BEC takes only a small current unless you have lots of working features.
Barrie
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largest 7.2v battery's i have are 3000nihm so 10-15 Min's run time for me, if i use LA battery's i can go up to an hour in some boats, i normally assume that most new people with boats have bog standard 7.2 battery's no more then 1800- 2400's (which most likely came with the rtr kit or part of a shop 'deal')which would only give them around 10 min run time. just an assumption i know that 5000 7.2's can give up to 30 Min's + run time clearly the more you spend on them the longer you get
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Good to know that the noise is normal. I'll stop worrying about.
Prophet - Thanks for the clingfilm/silicone tip, I'd never have thought of that one.
I'm quoted 50mins run time from the battery, and there's a post on here somewhere from a member with the same boat who says he gets good milage from it (hour +) I think.
Time will tell. I've not run it yet, but I'll let you know how I get on if anyone's interested in the battery?
I like the idea of a yacht next... no batteries to run down, although it does mean I'll have to learn how to sail!
Thanks again for the tips...
GVJ
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One of my members got one of these to have something to play with while he does his "real" project. First impression was that it was over-engined, and needed very careful throttle control to prevent it looking silly. With a more sensible motor choice both the whining and the overly exuberant performance could have been cured by Thunder Tiger, but a 15 volt 545 is a cheap drop-in replacement. He started thinking seriously about that when he tried fitting a fuse, and popped a 20A car type fuse. I was left wondering if the motor was one of the infamous e-bay Johnsons of ill repute from a couple of years ago. I suppose they had to go somewhere......
The whining is a result of the way ESCs work - they switch on and off many times a second, which kicks at the moving part of the motor and passes pulses to air. We hear these as a whine, but some ESCs run a much lower rate of pulses, so we just hear a rumble, some are so high a rate that we just dont hear them. At anything other than full throttle, when all the pulses merge into one, the whine will be there, but will be at its loudest when the pulses are so short that the motor is not turning (i.e. minimum throttle, as you have noticed).
In that boat, with the right motor, it should be good for an afternoon's sailing.
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after checking which boat it was 50 Min's is a realistic run time, i was under the impression it was running on nihm not LA that buzzing sound from the esc is nothing to worry about and changing it will be a waste of cash, since when its 30 yards away or more you can't hear it anyway, infact in most of my boats you hear the motors whining more then the esc's buzzing if your that bothered about a buzz sound maybe you should look into investing the cash for a new 50A esc to a sound unit and run a sound of the boats engine that was you will never hear the buzz instead a realist sound of a working boat, one of my tugs whines like a pig ( twin Kort's and bow thrusters ) 3 esc's whining constantly i know how you feel over that sound you could encase the esc in a box of some sort provided you cool the esc via air or water this will reduce the sound significantly :-))
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Excellent,
Thanks again.
Now I know the bleeping/whining isn't damaging anything I'm not bothered by it at all. Was initially worried that i'd put something together incorrectly due to it being my first time.
Malcolm... just to clarify. Are you saying the 15volt 545 is the cheapo motor in the boat already? or is that a motor you are recommending as a cheap replacement that i could consider if I wanted a more realistic pace to the boat?
Thanks,
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The 15volt 545 was the intended replacement that we figured when we peered down in my mates boat and tried measuring the motor case. Between the awkward angle that we had to place the swiss army credit card ruler, and my eyesight, we could well have been a bit out, but it certainly LOOKED like a 540 sized motor. Careful measuring of the case size in better circumstances is better, and will lead to a better decision. A 5 pole motor is preferable for a displacement type hull, a 545 running on about half its rated voltage is just on the generous side of being right for that size of boat, giving scale performance plus the required bit for luck, and a really good run time.
I can't remember what the prop looked like, it should be a three bladed one, but the orientals seem to think that a racing type two blade prop is perfect for everything.
A minor thing to check out for true scale appearance - the port and starboard nav lights might be the wrong colours - it got a mention on a thread on a different board, and it was so on my mates boat. Two dabs of paint to cure.
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My friend has one of the Lobster boats, poodling round he gets well over 50min. The "motor" noise is normal, as pointed out its actually the ESC... I have seen several others they all do it.
They are great boats for the money. The supplied motors fine... just exercise some throttle control.. ok2 You will be glad of the extra power on a windy day or anywhere theres a bit of a current.
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Took her out for the first time this morning, very impressive.
Throttle control achieved decent scale speeds, and the extra oomph did come in handy against the wind.
She's letting in a little bit of water when it gets choppy, despite the silicone/clingfilm trick mentioned earlier. Nothing major, but a few dribbles found there way in and pooled round the battery. Battery wasn't exactly sat in water, but it was wet underneath when I took it out to charge it. Have dried off with kitchen towel and will head out later this aft for another run.
Should this be OK? or should I endeavor to stop ALL water getting in? Not sure what else to try really, the seal looked pretty good once the deck was screwed on.
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some water is ok depending on where its constantly laying, but try to stop it, try some foam around the top edge of the hatch area you siliconed this will help in catching water, you may be forced to increase the hight of the hatch area walls to stop water coming in, the silicond trick works nicly on my boats but i have at least 1"-1.5" of hatch wall
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Hmmmm I think my problem is that there is no hatch or hatch wall. The deck fits flush to the ledge on the inner of the hull. When water gets on the deck it can basically pool there, and then runs down the side of the deck. Pretty poor design I guess.
Darn :(
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As Prophet says, some water is OK but be sure to dry it out well. A large syringe is a useful tool for this, followed by old towels or kitchen paper. When you have got all the obvious water out, then leave it with the deck off in a warm place to dry out completely. If you don't you may find things rusting - I've managed to let this happen twice now :((
Barrie
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think your only option to stop the water incoming is to create a wall around the opening so the superstructure slips over the top and make a fully water proof seal its the only way to stop any water ingress
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Thanks again guys,
I can't see how to make a wall unless I seal the deck completely and then cut new holes in it for access and build Walls for those hatches. This would mean a massive re-design and the boat is quite small so most of the deck would need cutting away.
Anyone familiar with the particular model who could suggest something?
Good news is that I took her out again this afternoon and had no water in at all, but that was due to the fact that no water came onto the deck. It was on a much calmer lake.
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do us a favor and post a few pics of your boat with some images of the parts you can remove we may be able to suggest ways to seal the hull so its still practical with out further cutting of the boat
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Good idea,
I'm new to the forum, so give me a few mins to see how to post pics and I'll get something up...
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OK,
Here's the pics:
First with the deck off - you can see where I have tried to mold silicon to the shape of the deck to minimise seepage.
Secondly the deck
And third the combined boat. You can see the issue I'm having: with the deck sitting in the hull, and no raised walls to keep the water out, the water is able to pool on the deck and eventually seep into the hull.
It is only minimal seepage, and only occurs in choppy waters, but I'd like to keep it out if possible. It's a bit worrying on larger lakes.
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with the deck sitting in the hull, and no raised walls to keep the water out, the water is able to pool on the deck and eventually seep into the hull.
It is only minimal seepage, and only occurs in choppy waters, but I'd like to keep it out if possible. It's a bit worrying on larger lakes.
I wouldn't worry too much about water getting in, I have had a Thunder Tiger Lobmaster for 18 months and sail it in rough water and salt water. Water does get in and the outside of the motor has surface rust on it but it's still going strong. Just get as much water as you can out after you have finished sailing, I use a turkey baster then mop up the last bit with kitchen roll.
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After you have got the worst of the water out chuck a few bags of silica gel inside the hull this will help dry the inside :)
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honestly i think the silicon trick it the best you can get given the fact that the whole deck is removable, try this..
put the deck on and carfully remove the excess silicone from the model , next put a new bead of silicon on the deck using the cling film technique to the hull this will allow the new silicon bead to touch the one on the hull causing 2 surfaces to press together with some flex improving the overall seal.
other method might be to along the inside of the boat create your own water proof barrier expoy in place so it goes up to to deck level leaving about 1/2" gap around the sides (any water will get trapped there) then on the deck put some 1/4 obeche strips around where the new barriers edges will meet that will stop all water entering the main area of the hull, any water leaks will be in the 1/2" gap so its not water tight but it will stop water getting to the expensive parts it will also aid in a capsize as long as the deck is fitted tightly down no water will be able to break the seal of the new internal wall :-))
thats the best ideas i have both methods do work i have done both on other models that have similar issues (rtr yacht i have had this issue i fixed it using the 2nd method i suggested)
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Cut some scuppers level with the deck as well
Most of the water will then go back outboard
Ned
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I agree with Ned, cut some scuppers in the bulwarks and most of your water will run away. :-))
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Cut some scuppers level with the deck as well
Most of the water will then go back outboard
DON'T do that. The boat is double skinned if you cut holes the water will fill between the walls of the boat and it will sink!
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Thanks again,
Excellent suggestions.
I think i'm going to silicone the uderside of the deck, forming a silicone to silicone join as Prophet suggested. THEN, if i still get issues, I'll see about constructing an internal wall for the deck to sit on.
Regarding the scuppers: I thought about cutting holes earlier today, but thought they would let just as much water in as they would let out {:-{
So is there a knack to this, and where are they cut? The back (sorry stern). Any particular size?
I do apologise for all these beginner questions, I'm getting there slowly I think. Only been on the water one day!
Thanks again,
GVJ
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OOPS!
Just assumed the bulwarks were just that
Single skin.
I'll leave it to the experts out there
:-X :-X :-X
Ned
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Just assumed the bulwarks were just that
Single skin.
The hull is double skinned with a air gap in the middle for bouyancy, that's the reason the Thunder Tiger's are almost unsinkable
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Phew - Ixion... Just saw that in time! I was just looking up what a bulwark was so I could cut it!
You're right, I forgot the hull is double-skinned.
Looks like I'll be getting busy with the silicone.
Also, I love your Lobmaster, I commented on it on a another thread. I intend to detail and modify mine, once I have it seaworthy(er). I know nothing about ships, but modeling skills aren't too bad, so at least she'll look the part on the outside...
It's also comforting to know 'proper' boaters also have time for a cheap RTR model like mine. I was hoping it wasn't going to get mocked, but quite the contrary. :-))
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meh, rtr kits, scratch builds there all boats that makes you a boater and worth our time :-))
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Hi Graph, it might also be worth checking that the prop shaft/tube is not allowing water to pass into the hull when the boat is stationary. Just a thought. :-) Perky
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Does the double skinning extend above deck level into the bulwarks? If it doesn't, no problem making freeing ports. If it does, once the ports are cut, the skins and the void between them will be revealed. The gap can be filled with milliput or similar. Works on my SHG trawler, where the bulwarks are double skinned with a very wide gap.
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Does the double skinning extend above deck level into the bulwarks?
Yes
If it does, once the ports are cut, the skins and the void between them will be revealed. The gap can be filled with milliput or similar.
It's a lot of work though and in my opinion not worth it for the small amount of water that gets in!
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the prop shaft seems pretty watertight, plus I can see by where the water is that it's coming from between the deck and the hull.
I'll make a note of it to check later in case it loosens up over time though, thanks.
I'll finish messing with it and then get some silicone on the bottom of the deck. Hopefully have less water in there next weekend.
It's worth pointing out, in case anyone else is following this who may be eying one of these boats up, that it is a very minor amount of water that's getting in. Not even enough to need a syringe to remove it. A bit of kitchen towel does that job on it's own. I'm just very pedantic about this sort of stuff, and as a newbie to the hobby still a bit apprehensive about loosing her when I see choppy waves coming over the bulwarks when she's 200 yards out!
That and the whole water/electric thing.
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You are a worrier. :} My friends has been abused in choppy waters for months ...no problem. Just put the rx in a balloon and seal the neck with an elastic band..Suck any water out with a large plastic disposable syringe... got mine from the chemist.. O0
Fit some fuel tubing to the syringe so you can get in those hard to get places :-)).. Don't buy any needles you don't want the :police: taking an interest