Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Navy - Military - Battleships: => Topic started by: pugwash on September 17, 2010, 11:41:29 am
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This is my build of HMS Aisne a battle class destroyer converted to a radar picket destroyer along with
three others in the late 50's. MY wife bought me a Deansmarine Solebay kit which I hope to successfully
convert into Aisne. For those that do not know the class the first photo shows Solebay and and the second
shows Aisne after conversion and how I hope my build will look on completion.
There were no plans available anywhere so I spent the first three months studying photogaphs and drawing
my own.
From the Deans kit I have used the hull, turrets, funnel, rudder and a few small parts. To this I have added
some Sirmar and John Haynes parts (adapted as required) and the rest is scratch built. The printed plasticard
from the deans kit was cleaned with meths and then redrawn and re-cut so all mistakes on the superstructure
are mine not Deans.
Geoff
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I haven't included much about the hull exterior in my build as its a standard Deans hull fitted with a Raboesch prop shaft
and propellor it was then sanded as per normal and fitted with cammet portholes and frames.
I then had to make and fit the anchor platforms, prop guards and the squid splinter shield paint and and fix depth
markings and pennant numbers.
The hull interior next - now that was more of a problem
Geoff
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Good evening, the original plans for the build was to have a full lighting harness - navigation, fighting lights
and some interior lighting. I them decided I would not be sailing her at night so I decided the electrics would be
for two radar scanners - one on each mast, both 4.5 gun turrets and the gunnery director to rotate together
two 6v smoke generators(1 only had a pathetic smoke output) and finally a computor fan under the funnel
which would do two jobs - take away some heat from the motors and boost the smoke coming out the funnel.
The stern was straightforward fit the rudder servo, fit the motor battery between the prop shafts.
From the motors forward the wiring has been re-fitted three times and I heeded the forums advice and fitted
fuses and a control board from Dave at ACTion. after that the drive and power has been no trouble.
Between the fuse boards is a 3v battery box to run a micro geared motor on the main mast radar.
Forward of this is the space for the fan and smoke generators
It's in photo 3 I had the problems and there is a spaghetti nest of wires - Buried deep out of sight are two viper ESCs
and Daves control and distribution board then another 6v SLA to run fan, smoke, turret motors and the bedstead
radar on the foremast. The turrets and director each have a 300/1 geared Jotika motor controlled by the servo sitting
in the wooden frame. There is probably some gloriously simple electronic way to do this but my way does work even
if it looks a bit Heath-Robinson. I couldnt use geared shafts to run the turrets because I couldnt fit a shaft to the
forward turret. to get power to the sperstructure I make 4 spring loaded terminals ( in the white plasticard fitting and
made up other spring loaded terminals to run power to the main and mormasts as I wanted to take off the
superstructure withoug having them connected by a miriad or wires.
I works on the bench - we will see about the lake - I promise more pictures and less print in future
Geoff
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The small battery box sitting on the front 6v SLA are to run the turrets - I found they went round far to quickly
at 6v so I had to reduce power to 3 v. As you can see I had to remove the combing on the maindeck and
round the forward gun turret so that I could have all the superstructure in one piece aft and to include to
turret with the forward superstructure - Yeah clear as mud isn't it.
Geoff
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Dont know how you got so much in the hull Geoff, I had trouble with just the normal stuff.
Looking good though. :-))
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This is the stage I am at now - the main blocks of the superstructure are built and painted in grey, the smaller
items have still to be painted like the decks, lights, vent grilles etc. I am now going to concentrate on the bridge fitting out
as in the last photo and the focsle - I like two areas to work on firstly if you have a boring part you can have a break and
do something else and you can switch to something different whilst the paint/glue is drying.
Geoff
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Time for an update. I have made up the 8 whip aerials - 4 for the bridge and the rest on the aft superstructure.
The focsle is complete with the exception of the Jack staff - haven't at this stage decided whether it will be raised or lying on deck
as it would be at action stations. The bridge superstructure is complete except for guardrails/stanchions(last job I will do)
the whips are temporarily in place but will be removed until completion as they are sure to get bent during the build.
The deck at B turret has to have the liferaft holders made - there were 8 on the original so I will them all together.
The next job will be the quarterdeck and the foremast.
Geoff
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Looking very good :-))
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Thsnks but I wish I were somewhere near Tomasz' standard.
Geoff
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Just one more I found of the Bridge interior.
Geoff
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Nice work Geof!!! That's a nice looking boat!
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kalaspera, bassplayer thanks for the compliment - but I'm a long way from your stardards yet but I do think there is an improvement
form my first model (though as I learn how to do things better my eyesight seem to deteriorate at the same rate)
Geoff
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It looks great, but as I found later with the eyesight, use a magnifier hat thing like I have at almost all times. Doc's advice.
Paul...
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Time to paint the mast. I decided to use the airbrush to get into all the corners of the lattice mast and finish off any overspray and
neaten any edges with a brush. It probably took more time to mask of the mast than it did to paint but I am happy with the result.
The last three photos show everything placed on the hull. The masts are now complete with the exception of halyards on the foremast
type 277 radar on the mainmast and the H.F. mainroof aerial which goes between the two masts.
The next jobs will be to complete the fittings for the quarterdeck and make the seacat and its director (already made two and scrapped them)
Geoff
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It looks Fantastic Geoff :-))
I like the look of it compared to the Original Battle class
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Thanks gingyer and I have not forgotten your plans - just haven't been near Newcastle yet but its still on the list of things to do
and you did say you were in no hurry.
Geoff
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HI Geoff
Thats correct no hurry when ever you are able is fine :-))
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Hi Geoff,
Fantastic model, great attention to detail, would love to see it on Killy Lake anytime
Cheers Chris
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Oh my god..Sir..i do not have words to explain it...its an effort far beyond ones imagination...sure..
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Finally got all the fittings made for the quarterdeck and made the Seacat director and altered the Launcher plus all
ammo lockers etc, finally a coat of paint then a brass rod fitted to just about every piece to help them stay in place
when I clumsily knock the model. (as I'm bound to do)
It has taken much longer than I anticipated due to having a frozen shoulder (right arm and ofcourse I'm right-handed)
Biggest problem was that I decided I wanted the director open for business and with figures manning it and not covered over
with its canvas cover. Big mistake - its not perfect now but you should have seen the three directors I scrapped and as for the
canvas cover - SWMBO was getting royally hacked of with my moods.
Next part will be fitting out the radar motors on both masts and the midships superstructure will also be completed.
Geoff
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Superb model, seeing it takes me back to my childhood when I used to watch em, beautiful vessels.
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Thanks O.D. must admit I enjoyed my 2 1/2 yrs onboard. It was a happy ship - not always the case.
Geoff
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Man, that is so pretty.
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Looking really good! :-))
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Thanks Yannis - How is your submarine coming along - looking forward to the next post.
Geoff
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Pugwash,
excellent build and wonderful attention to detail.
Do I detect a couple of cable clamps holding the Ensign Staff to the tripod on the quarterdeck?? Good bit of utilisation.
They do have their uses don't they? :-))
Keep up the good work.
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Hi Geoff, a real work of art, fantastic detailing esp the masts and radar, a credit to you sir.
Hope your keeping well, and kind regards from 'god's little acre' Tony. :-))
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Thanks very much Tony - feeling great at the moment as have just watched City beat Forest.
Yarpie Thanks but no they are just two slivers of brass soldiered arout the ensign staff - I never thought
of cable clamps - would have been easier to do.
Geoff
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Sir..i salute you for the great works...its unbelievable ..god may bless you...and expecting a lots from you as creations...surely its all inspiring...
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DISASTER DAY - Due to frozen shoulder and the fact |I now have steriod drops in my eye for the nex six weeks
because of something called iritis I cannot do any fine work on Aisne so today I decided to do a second stability
test in the bath as I have added rather a lot of electrics some of which have had to be quite high up.
Just to be on the safe side I only put a few inches of water in the bath - good job as she immediately tried to
turn over. Back to the drawing board - the model is already down to its correct waterline marks so I cannot
just add weight to the lower hull but must todally strip out and try to lighten the whole model fit a different type
of battery and Then add the ballast under the battery boxes.
Will update in a few weeks time OR will turn it into a static model.
Geoff
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Hi Pugwash,
Sorry to hear about the IRITIS which is inflammation of the Iris, can be quite painful. Just take it easy fella and keep taking the drops.
How you coping up in Amble with all the dreaded white stuff, 12" down here in Killingworth.
All the best
Soldier151
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Thanks Chris - drops starting to take effect. not so painful now but still got very blurred vision. Started on
lightening the boat - first job the resin turrets need hollowing out so it now looks as though there is more snow
ni my den than outside - just got to make sure I dont drill right thru. the turret.
Beng on the coast we now have only about 6 inches of snow left - just the side roads are bad, as long as we
don't get any more for a bit.
Geoff
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Geoff,
sad to hear of your eye problem and also the bouyancy glitch on your excellent model of HMS AISNE.
Unfortunately Deans destroyer hulls, or any others for that matter, being pencil slim, do not lend themselves to any superfluous topweight. (I built HMS CAVALIER from the VERULAM kit). Everything above the waterline has to be as light as possible.
Looking at your images of the hull, the boot topping is slightly above the fourth row of plating, so there is no margin of adjustment there. (One of the easier 'fixes', I use the lower edge of the fourth row of plating for my boot topping line on all three of my destroyers).
It is a great pity that you have this problem and the only way that I reckon you can solve it is to remove the extra electronics, ie the bedstead and main armament drives.
Nevertheless it would still make an excellent static model with the existing drives. The attention to detail is superb and the model is a credit to your craftsmanship.
Here's hoping for a complete cure for your irisitis and success for AISNE whatever you decide to do.
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Deans models are normally pretty seaworthy if built according to the instructions but there is obviously little margin for error with destroyer hulls at this scale. The ability to carry extra gear is obviously going to be very limited and weight and its distribution will be absolutely crucial. Sometimes it's just not possible to square the circle.
Colin
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Pugwash,
Don't get too despondant yet, I had the same problem with a 1/100 scale WW2 German Destroyer Z15.
On mine I did as you are and lightened as much as I could above the waterline.
Mine had 2 x solid resin funnels so new ones were made from Deans vacuform Narvik kit.
But she was still unstable and on her lines.
I replaced the 2 x SLA batteries with 1 x MiNim battery and laid some lead flashing along the keel.
This transformed her stability and she now sails in a North Wales huge lake with absolutely no stability problems even though she now sails on 8.4 volt pack.
Bob
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Thanks for your comments - I knew I was probably pushing the stability limits with the extra electronis circuits,
so I have started to strip things out - so far all the turrets and directors which are solid resin (total weight 197g)
have been drilled and hollowed out now they weigh 110g plus the circuits motors and servo etc being removed
has taken off another 157g - all this weight was reasonably high in the boat as it was the only place left to put it
I am going to try and keep the radar motors (only very small) the two smoke units and the cooling fan as they
are reasonably low down -. the two 6v SLA will go away for the next build and two new NIMH which are half the
weight AND because of their size can fit lower in the hull. Finally if I have to \I will fit a false keel which can be
removed if I want to put it on display (Strangely SWMBO quite likes them on display)
When they did this conversion in 59/60 they had a similar problem and had to put 15 tons of concrete ballast
in the bilges to counteract the weight of the huge new mast and the double 965 radar aerial and she still
rolled like a pig in a beam sea or wind. In the Irish Sea once the Inclinometer on the bridge was hard against the
stops and 35 degrees so we don't know how far we actually went - but the pucker factor started to register.
Geoff
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Sorry Bob missed your post - In my case I think its the mast causing the problem its all made of 1mm angle brass
and the Mainmast is .9 .7 and .5 brass tube but it still weighs a lot. I did try the 1.2 angle plasticard profile but it
looked far to clunky and out of scale - I have the batteries on order though so when they are fitted I will have taken
off about 1 1/2 lbs already.
Going to see what else I can pare down.
Geoff
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As Bob says. these problems are not insurmountable. My impression and experience of Deans models is that they sail very well if built to the instructions. However, the method of construction, which is shared by most other kit manufacturers means that there is very little spare weight capacity in the smaller slimmer hulled boats and some of that is usually needed to trim the ballast according to what motor, battery and radio gear is installed. Plasticard is actually quite heavy compared with plywood giving similar strength and rigidity and large solid resin items carry a lot of deadweight not to mention the white metal fittings! So if you want to add items to the model then you have to take away corresponding existing weight which is not easy if you are well advanced on the construction process.
When I built the Deans little steam yacht Medea I did have some concerns about the stability and weight carrying capacity of the model due to its very fine lines. So I substituted a plywood main deck, drilled out the resin fittings and substituted a much lighter rudder for the white metal one. The batteries were NiMH high capacity cells lying in the bottom of the hull and all I added were some brass portholes. The finished model was as steady as a rock and sails beautifully which suggests that it would have been perfectly OK had I just used the materials that came with the kit. I am presently building one of the Deans Compact kits as a review model and the instructions explicitly warn against enhancing it by adding third party metal fittings to the deck as this might compromise performance - that seems fair enough to me.
Anyway, persevere and it will come right as Bob assures you.
Colin
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Hello Geoff, hope the eye and shoulder is showing improvement, what with that and your build difficulties hope you ain't feeling the strain too much.
Times like that I tend to walk aways a while, let the old cells recharge and return looking to take up the challenge with a bit more gusto and confidence.
Anyway Geoff, static or otherwise it's a fine looking model and have enjoyed the log, Take care and kind regards, Tony. :-))
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Just a quick update and no photos this time. I have solved the stability problem and have gone from sla to nimh batteries of slightly greater power and
half the weight. I lightening the superstructure and hull I have caused some minor damage which will tke a short time to repair and I should be
back on the home straight just after the new year. She is now 1.6 kilos lighter.
The main parts left to make are the whaler and cutter davit system (apparently unique to the four converted vessels so I have to design and build them,
the 8 large liferaft platforms, catwalks. Booms, scrambling nets and then its the tedious job of guard-raills and stanchions.
See you in the New Year and I hope its a good one for you all.
Geoff
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Sir..happy to hear..but must take care of your health..take your own time to finish it...gently...have a nice day...
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Geoff,
great to hear that you have found a solution to your topweight problems. Look forward to seeing more images of this stunning model.
Meantime, as Rathi advises, take care, and Seasons Greetings to you and yours. :-))
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Good evening Sir..i hope your health is ok...i will pray for you all by this night as i have singing and keyboard play at my Church Goddess Mother Theressa.at qurbana i will pray for you all...Merry Christmas and happy new year...Sir take care of your health and eye...
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Well overdue for an update and as my eyesight has now been back to normal for a few weeks I have managed to get some
more work done.
All the liferaft stowages are now fitted and the for'd end has been completed as far back as the bridge with stanchions and guardrails.
The davits have now been made and fitted (most awkward job so far trying to get something like the correct shape)
I have started fitting and painting the stanchions and some guardrails on the after superstructure - after painting
I will repaint the green decks as the photos have highlighted the state of them
Three ladders round the foremast area waiting for painting and fitting.
The funnel guy wires can now be fitted - the after wire fits onto the bar which runs between each davit arm and when everything
stanchion is complete I will rig the main HF aerial wires which run between the masts
Definitely on the home straight.
Too much time was spend on the ballast problems and then the blurred vision.
Geoff
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Very nice Geoff, are you doing anything with the scuttles ?
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No Dicky - I eventually intend to put figures on the bridge, seacat deck, director deck and squid mount in action
rig as if she was at Action Stations so all the scuttles would be screwed down with the decklights lowered - hence showing
the grey inserts.(though I may glaze them with a very thin perspex )
Geoff
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Welll Aisne is finally finished - glued on the last bollard this morning and delivered her straight to the NE Model boat show.
I thought I had plenty of time to fit all the small parts like whip aerials and HF aerial wires, funnel guys etc then all the parts that I had stored in boxes
and did not want to fit until the last minute as I'm quite clumsy.
Geoff
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Last few pictures -
The last picture is a 1/100 figure sent to me by Stan of this forum - German preiser make - you can get about 190 figures unpainted
for about £35 He painted it in american Naval working rig and as a little experiment I made up a Tommy type WW11 tin helmet
(we were still using them in the 60's then added the anti-flash gear - this was just a 5 min trial so I think I can do a better job with the
helmet and will then add figures on some of the weapons and on the bridge when she comes back from the show.
I will also be re-laying the deck from the bridge aft to the quarterdeck - its tone major thing I am now satisfied with (lots of minor things though)
Geoff
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Fantastic, especially that rardar but please change the nut in front of the prop. it spoils the whole thing.
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Looks AWESOME :-))
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In the true spirit of reserved understatement.......................very nice indeed. Brings back memories of a day at sea on Agincourt in 1965
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Brian - noted - I fitted it because if comes fitted to the Raboesch propshaft - if it isnt needed I will happily take it off
as I never liked it there anyway
Geoff
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There ought to be a knurled nut (not just what I feel like at the moment after a big working bee %)) or some shape that looks more in keeping with scale ships.
I must look out for ideas.
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Well done Geoff, the model is a credit to you and your determination. :-))
Fantastic detail.
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Thanks for the comments, much appreciated.
Gingyer if you still want the plans I have now finished with them and you could have the set I used for the build
(they have been under the glass top on my desk so the should be clean and tidy ( I never did get back to the printers)
I still have the original drawings I did if I need them for anything.
Let me know - Just dont expect too much - my name is geoff Not Jecobin.
Geoff
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PM sent Geoff :-))
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When I did my last post with photos I said I was not happy with the way the s/s sat on the main deck so I was going
to remove it and get a better fit and replace it, then having got a box of preisor 100/1 figures I was going to add crew members.
After rebuilding my den to give me longer worktops and more storage space I started today. First job was to remove three small screws which
secure the S/S. Just started the first screw when the screwdriver slipped and my hand smacked into the model and knocked of a set of stairs
and turned a long section of stanchions and guardrails into what now looks like a section of barbed wire from the trenches.
Stepped back from the bench to see where the stairs had gone and felt something under my foor - yep the stairs.
D*** I could understand it if I had started on Friday the 13 but this was still Thursday. Will come back tomorrow
when I have had a re-think.
Geoff
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I tried using pieces of lead flashing curved round the bilges of the boat at bow, midships and stern and she sits quite
nicely on the water but I think is too tender and likely to turn over in anything except millpond conditions.
Going to have to bite the bullet and fit a removeable keel.
I have a blow torch for melting the lead but can anyone suggest what I can use to make to moulds.
the keel will be torpedo shaped in two halves and the piece attached to the bottow of the hull
will be sandwiched between the lead halves and bolted through.
The two pieces of lead need to be about 1/2 inch deep and 6 inches long to make up a lead bulb about 1 inch in diameter
Is plaster of paris any good for molten metal?? Or is there anything better.
Geoff
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Plaster of Paris is probably OK. I have used casting plaster (SWMBO uses it for her sculptures) with fair results but you MUST allow it to dry completely or the lead could turn the water into steam with dire consequences. {:-{
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As Brian says Geoff, whatever you use as a mould make sure its perfectly dry before you use it.
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I built Deans Solebay and had no problems with the way she sits on the water, mind you I did pack a lot into it. I have two Astec ESC, two 7.2v NiCad packs side by side, a mylar speaker under the funnel, three Astec sound generators fwd, plus an amp, and all the rc gear as well. Even then I put extra weight into her to ride at the proper waterline. As an original Battle class she does not have the top hamper that Aisne has, especially the 965 so far above cg.
Lovely model I congratulate you.
As an aside I got thrown off the Aisne, whilst I was an inquisitive apprentice in HM Dockyard Portsmouth, while she and Barrosa were awaiting disposal me and my made went on a self-guided tour, it wasn't approved of by the officer standing by the ships. Grumpy s*d, lol!
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Thanks folks will give it a try with a very dry mould of plaster of paris - if for any reason that doesnt work
I have some oak which I could rout out as a mould.
Geoff
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Well after several lead keels and trials for ballasting I got her pretty well stable. Kept putting off the day when I
was going to go for the maiden sail just in case she did a Titanic.
This evening was perfect (though the photos weren't ) on the River Coquet at Warkworth these are the best
(will definitely have to show SWMBO how my camera works as the video clip was a complete washout)
Geoff
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Well it was very very nice out of the water static but its now also very nice on the water with a nice authentic heel when turning hard. Impressive! I will be happy if my Yarmouth looks only half as good and stable when she hits the wet stuff, although I have this feeling when shes first finished she may as likely or not roll on wet grass!!
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mikearace says ... " its now also very nice on the water with a nice authentic heel when turning hard. Impressive!"
O0 ...yes pugwash.......I am sure we second that comment....... :-)) very impressive ....Derek
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Thanks for the comments. She had a nice scale speed but as she only has a single rudder ( about 1 1/4inches square)
set between the props she has rather a large turning circle. Next boat I may think of making the rudder a bit over-scale.
Geoff
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Looks great Geoff :-))
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She looks great . I built HMS Agincourt from David McGregor plans some 35 years ago and she is still going strong , I had to rebuild the deckhouses and fit a new deck some 4 years ago , the originals were in balsa and had started to split . I used plasticard for the new parts and managed to use most of my scratchbuilt fittings . Sails nicely on the water and very stable but not good in heavy weather due to low freeboard of the main deck . Your model lokks excellent congratulations .
(http://s2.postimage.org/1683x4sh0/AG1_640x480.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1683x4sh0/)
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Thanks for comments Gingyer.
Horatio I think if I had stuck to the Deans marine model of Solebay she would have been stable as well it was those two masts
that caused all the problems - done in 1mm angle brass but the weight started to mount up. Just like the real one - she rolled
almost as badly as your Ton class and they reckoned they would roll on wet grass.
By the way your Nurton looks spot on.
Geoff
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Glad you got it sorted in the end Geoff :-))
It was worth it mate...it looks the dogs Do Da`s O0