Model Boat Mayhem
Technical, Techniques, Hints, and Tips => Radio Equipment => Topic started by: BlazingPenguin on February 02, 2007, 03:13:02 pm
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Anyone have any ideas on how to set up Futaba Tx mixer for use with a twin screw boat?
The manuals great on flapearons..elvevons...all sorts of 'vons'! But I want use the free mixing channel for twin screws/ throttle & rudder...
Any ideas? ???
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Have you checked out the gubbins on the home page http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/Common/Electrics/Images/setupsA4JPG.jpg
Richard ;)
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The 6EXA built in mixer facilities don't seem to be much good for marine use as the channels mixed are intended for aircraft applications. You may therefore need to have a separate mixer in the boat or use the TX undercarriage switch to toggle between independent and grouped stick motor control, again using a RX controlled switch on the boat. See this thread for more information. http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=214.0
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hi Blazing pingu - I have the Futaba T6EXA transmitter set up as you describe for mixing motors and rudder - I am sure others on this forum have the same set up.
Bear in mind, its not 100% mix. I would say about 95% mix between rudders and props.
The way I sat and figured it out (how to set it all up) I sat with 4 servos on the bench and experimented with different setups. No doubt you will find this will be the easiest way for you rather than try and explain.
Hope this helps.
Aye
JOHN E
BLUEBIRD
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Anyone have any ideas on how to set up Futaba Tx mixer for use with a twin screw boat?
The manuals great on flapearons..elvevons...all sorts of 'vons'! But I want use the free mixing channel for twin screws/ throttle & rudder...
Any ideas? ???
I've done this with the 6exa but it isn't as good as I thought it would be. I used flapperon mixing and added the program mix to include the rudder. It does work but throttle travel is limited to about 50% stick travel in forward and reverse.
Give a go with servos connected and see how it works for you.
Scottie
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hi there all, a slight deviation from the topic - but an enquiry to all the lads who have a Futaba 6EXA
When I got mine I just had the standard battery pack in the transmitter a 9.6 volt - 700 mAh - and my question is:=
how long is your running time/transmitting time on your transmitters?
Because, with this battery pack in mine - I am lucky if I manage to get an hour's sailing time with it. Ive discharged it, and re-charged the battery pack several times. However, its still the same :-\
Aye
John E
BLUEBIRD
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Bluebird
My radios are all last century stuff so I could still use NiCads, although I'm changing over to NiMH cells because of their higher capacity and their lack of memory. With all the computing power of sets like yours I'd have thought that higher capacity Tx and Rx pack would be advisable. Try this link - 2.4 Ah has to be good sense at this price.
http://www.component-shop.co.uk/html/small_packs.html
Suit yourself.
Aye
FLJ
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ditch the factory pack and get a sanyo 2300mah ni-mh :) the original pack is a pile of ^^^^!
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Bluebird...likewise i cant get 1 hour out of the TX...will take...Ghosts advice and get a new pack
chromedome
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my pack lasted 2 days before it was replaced, going flat on me after 20 mins! yes twenty minutes! was not good, i now have an 1800mah pack in it from westbourne models, and its getting 7 hours from each charge :)
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Firmly label me 'THICK' please?
I have the manual and I can roughly equate the flaps on the wings with in my case two ESC's, but thats two channels, the throttle alone is a channel itself thats mixing three channels and I think two are allowed?
Im trying to set up for a twin screw boat, that at will mix left/right with throttle as in an 'on-board' mixer...perhaps it cant be done.
My TX battery was ok for up to 4 hrs from new, but rapidly fell away. I replaced the supplied batts with higher amperage units and soldered up a new pack, only drama was the lack of space for a wire connection, the original having a metal tag.
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Firmly label me 'THICK' please?
In that case I'm thick as well! I couldn't figure out a way to use the TX on board mixer satisfactorily with a conventional control setup either. The restrictions on which channels can be mixed seem to prevent this - as previous posts have indicated.
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Hi All,
;D Call me thick as well - Ive mixed the channels - but how the hell did I do that. Sitting with manual in hand and model on bench going back through the procedure of how I did it! What I do know is...when I move the throttle stick forward, the two motors engage in forward/reverse As soon as I move the Aileron Elevator control stick up, or down, it takes control of the starboard motors either slowing them down, or reversing them. The control of the rudder of the model is on the same Aileron Elevator control stick only side-to-side. This does not have any effect on the speed of the motors, on side-to-side movement.
How the hell did I programme this - if I go missing for 4-5 days dont worry ;D Ive just joined the loony gang.
Aye
John
e
BLUEBIRD
LOOKS LIKE A NEW SET OF BATTERIES FOR ME TRANSMITTER TAKING ALL YOUR GOOD ADVICE.
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Allow me to clarify and correct my previous post - I used 'elevon' mixing not 'flaperon'
My intent was to use a single stick (right stick) to control two motors and the rudder.
To do this, the esc's were connected to 'elevator' and 'aileron' channels while the rudder was left on the 'rudder' channel.
Activate the in-built 'Elevon' mix function and then set up the programmable mix to add the rudder as a slave to the 'aileron' channel.
The drawback (as previously metioned) is that the elevon mix function does not give full servo travel in either full forward or full reverse.
If you're still confused let me know and I'll document it in much greater detail.
Scottie
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mixing, yeesh, when i went to mix the engines, i went for a V tail mixer as the exa will not mix on the left stick
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Oh dear, that urban myth again! Nicads do not have a memory effect in our useage. Manufacturers have only ever replicated a memory effect under very very strict operating conditions.
What most modellers take as memory effect is in fact cells in a pack that are in different states of capacity which have not been regularly discharged.
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Justboatonic
No-one is suggesting that a cell would be capable of retaining information, and I quite take your point that it is difficult to replicate this effect in a single cell. It only seems to happen in packs. Nevertheless perhaps you'd allow modellers to call it "memory effect" anyway; it's a term which is easy to remember and everyone knows what you mean, even if offends the cognoscenti ;)
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I had the same probs with the pack that came with my TX. It did not last more than an hour. I took it appart when I made up a new pack. the old one had a dead cell. Mind you the stated capacity is quite low in this day and age.
It would make no difference hgow often or how well you discharged and recharged your pack if you have a poor set of cells in the first place. I thought my pack would be a one off but seems not. Poor quality control.
Pity good Tx though. I have set myTX to work with twin props but not mixed from the rudder stick.
Bart.
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I was on the point of buying a 6EXA until I read this. Has anyone actually got a satisfactory result switching from single to dual throttle control with a 6EXA? My 20 years' old, 7 channel, Fleet Plainsman manages it at the flick of a switch and without a computer chip in sight - I suppose that's progress? ???
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Yes, Fleet did have this facility and very useful it was too. I have replicated it on the 6EXA by using the undercarriage switch on the TX to slave/separate the ESCs in the model by means of a switch linked to one of the RX channels. Not so simple obviously, but the result is the same.
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the feature i like about the exa is the memory modes, i have 5 boats i can run atm and there on different slots
1 Gemini
2 Celestia
3 Esprit D'Atlantique, (dual rates engaged)
4 Southampton tug
5 Yamato
Each model has a different stick set up, which given my preference for rudder on slot 4 does confuse people
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I was on the point of buying a 6EXA until I read this. Has anyone actually got a satisfactory result switching from single to dual throttle control with a 6EXA? My 20 years' old, 7 channel, Fleet Plainsman manages it at the flick of a switch and without a computer chip in sight - I suppose that's progress? ???
Yes, Like Colin I utilised one of the switches although I chose to use the Dual Rate switch since I couldn't see myself ever wanting dual rates on a model.
I can send a schematic of the mod if you're interested. It requires opening the back and doing a bit of soldering but it is simple enough.
Scottie
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Scottie,
Thanks for the offer but having weighed up the pro's and cons of the 6EXA, I now have a F-14 Navy on order. Mind you, there may well be others who would be interested.
Thanks
Barry M
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Hi new member 1st post.
I also bought the Futaba set for use with my currant and first scale build "Sentinel"twin screw.
After much deliberation over this twin motor control topic I have returned the set and paid the extra for the F2 Navy.
Looking at both it seems the F2 is clearly the better option but not without a big hit in the wallet department!
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Barry...do you not fancy going for the new crystal free TX from multiplex,since you are in the market?
chromedome
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Nope - The 6EXA seems to be fine for aviation or single screw vessels but poorly suited for anything multi-crew.
I went for the F14 Navy because all my current models are twin screw with multiple functions. The twin throttle F14 navy with the ability to provide a mind-boggling number of channels and expansions at an affordable price met my requirements. The multiplex may have the virtue of being crystal-less but I bet it doesn't have the same versatility.
The set arrived today from 'A Model World' who once again provided the best price, informative telephone advice and a fast delivery without waiting for my cheque to cash. Highly recommended!
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I had a runaway with the previous 40Mhz Zebra + vtail mixer setup (some strange behaviour between the rx and the mixer on signal failure) so bought the 2.4 ghz 6ex because of it's advertised 'fail safe' capabilities.
It was irritating to discover that the 'fail safe' only works on the throttle channel and that the fail safe state isn't passed on through the mixer functions. In any case the only fail safe options are about stopping an IC engine, not going to a mid point for an ESC.
The tech guy at Ripmax was dismissive of my questions about any possible solutions to this saying that I "had bought a bargain basement radio" and what did I expect for the money?!!!
But despite that I persevered and got it to work using the built in Vtail mixer mode with elevator as power and rudder as differential. I didn't notice any servo travel issue but the ESC's are set up against the full stick movement anyway.
I set the ship's rudder on the aileron channel and slaved this to the rudder stick so that rudder moves with differential power, but can also be controlled independently with both motors at full power. This solved the snag with the original mixer setup of the ship losing way in turns due to one motor slowing.
I also slaved the elevator channel to the throttle stick. This gives a ratchet power setting for constant speed and the spring return stick for manouvering.
The signal quality of the radio is rock solid and there seems to be no risk on runaway on signal failure provided the motors are stopped at the time addressing my initial problem with the 40 Mhz set. I intend to utilise the power fail by connecting a motor isolation switch to a dedicated throttle servo in the boat but havn't yet found a source of a suitable servo mounted switch for that and don't really want to make a heath robinson toggle switch assembly.
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with the 6exa, you can get motor mixing for multi screw boats, snag is, its on the RIGHT hand stick, engage ELEVON mixing. at first it feels alien having motors on right rudders on left but you do get used to it I have done that to My Yamato
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with the 6exa, you can get motor mixing for multi screw boats, snag is, its on the RIGHT hand stick,
That's what I meant. Sorry I didn't explain more clearly. I then slaved the right, elevator, stick to the left, throttle, stick to get normal left hand power control with ratchet and right hand spring return control for manouvres.
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It was irritating to discover that the 'fail safe' only works on the throttle channel and that the fail safe state isn't passed on through the mixer functions. In any case the only fail safe options are about stopping an IC engine, not going to a mid point for an ESC.
The Spektrum 2.4 Ghz system comes with failsafe on throttle but they have also produced a 'robot' version of the receiver which has failsafe on all 6 channels. For anyone interested the Part No. iis SPM6000BR It can be bought from Sussex Model Centre.
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one thing that has changed between the 6EX and 6EXA us that channel 6 was on the old radio a proportional knob, with the ch5 being a switch on/off, now both 5 and 6 are on/off switches even though the radio has gone from 35 / 40 / 72 / 75mhz to 2.4ghz which is an improvment, the fact that they have gone to a switch on a previously proportional channel is in My opinion a bad move on Futaba's part
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I have just purchased a 6exa and i have a 4 channel reciever already installed in the boat, one channel i use for the sound system but this means i have to use one of the sticks because the switch is on channel 5, can this be altered within the handset so that channel 5 on the transmitter is controlling channel 4 on the reciever or do i just get a 6channel reciever?
Russ
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im not sure if the mode adjust affects ch5/ch6, so best idea may be to get a new 6ch.