Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Steam => Topic started by: SNOOPDOG32 on October 26, 2010, 07:59:54 pm
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Hello all
I am about to start my first steam plant and intend using it in a open launch i have been ready through the steam threads
and now have a Maccsteam 3 1/2 2 horizontal boiler and a Graham TVR1A engine.
I now want to get all the other bits for the plant. I know i will need a lubricator ,condenser and a radio control valve ,what ones and sizes do i need and where is the best place to purchase them!
Is it worth fitting a hand feed pump to the boiler?
Is it worth fittng extra lagging under the the boiler planking?
I am sure i will have many more questions as i progress with the build.
Look forward to your answers :-))
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Oh i also have a gas tank from maccsteam
can anyone recomend a good book also :D
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Try "Model Marine Steam" by Stan Bray
Very good reference book
Mark
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Thanks for that Mark found one on e bay :D
ED
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Sounds like this will be a nice boat when it's finished mate. Have you any pics of the hull- have you built it?
You will need an inline displacement steam lubricator, there are many places to get these- Steamfittings.co.uk Reeves 2000, Stuart Turner, Modellbau-niggel.de, Live Steam Models, Mainsteam Models- reading through the threads and a good google session should find you more- though theres plenty to start with there.
There are two trains of thought re. hand pumps- your boiler is a quick steamer and you should get a good 25-30mins steaming time with a full boiler- if this is good enough for you then leave it. If, like me, you feel that isn't enough and don't want the boiler to lose pressure and go cold by re-filling before having another steam then yes, a hand-pump will be necessary.
It is definitely worth fitting lagging under the boiler- again check out the suppliers listed above as some supply suitable lagging- 1.5mm Kaowool or similar would be fine and discreet.
If you have soldering skills you can make a condenser for far less money than buying one, and you can make it to a size that fit's the boat you are building.
Greg
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Thanks for the info Greg still looking at hulls
What sort of size would the condenser need to be! i can solder so could have a go at making one
i have been reading through the threads for the past few months just want to check the best items
to use.Wil have a good google and see what else comes up there is quite a bit of choice out there!
ED
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the larger one of these
Peter
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Thanks Peter
Will have a go at making one i think %)
ED
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do you know what the internals need to be like ? I can prob find a shetch
peter
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I have seen them on here somewhere but if you have a sketch that would be very helpfull O0
ED
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Ed
as far as books - back in the steam section there are more than a few books listed at the beginning of the section . There is a resource STICKY where many of us have listed links or suggested must read titles
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1226384 (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1226384)
Good luck on your journey!!
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Thanks for that mogogear will take a look at that :-))
ED
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Thanks for all the help so far :-))
What lubricator would you chaps recomend for the Graham TVR1A engine there seems to be quite a few different designs about
some have a valve attatched !
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They are all pretty much a muchness, but the ones with a valve on the inlet allow you to refill under boiler pressure.
Greg
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have a look on hear they have some nice stuff BUT remember they are in metric but that is no problem as you get the olives and nuts with them so with a bit of sanding you can make them fit in minuets
http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.modellbau-niggel.de%2F&act=url
peter
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Thanks again for the info :-)) peter and greg will look at the site still undecided on a hull
anyone know of any different supliers looked at kingston river queen & metcalf solent
want an open launch / work boat style like bernhards style of wonderfull models
not that i could get near his standard
ED
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Found this one on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LUBRICATOR-STOP-VALVE-/150402098808?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item2304a9e678#ht_500wt_899
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He is good to deal with he is ex Cheddar worker so knows the plants in side out, and a nice bloke.
peter
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info on the internals of a condenser, hope it helps
peter
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Thanks again for the replies Peter most usefull :-))
ED
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Hi I think 3/16th exhaust pipe is too small and may choke your engine under full power , just a thought
John
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What size is the steam supply pipe on TVR1's?
Greg
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Hi Greg think its 4mm has not arrived yet should be here begining of next week O0
hi John just wanted the diagram for the layout of the condenser will be using 5/32 tube
ED
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Hi ED,
Exhaust pipework should really be a larger diameter than the supply- I would stick to 3/16" for the condenser. If your anxious to save space then you could always make the condenser horizontal.
Greg
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Thanks Greg all info greatfully accepted
ED
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Hi snoopdog,
I'm going down almost the exact same road (river?) :-))
Looking foward to your sucesses. :-)
I just bought a Minature Steam boiler (Australian) plus bits and pieces etc,from all over the globe! ;) I hope to get it boiled up in a month or so.
Just have to learn how to silver solder, {:-{ bend copper tube, {:-{ find out why the b.....y thing won't work....., >>:-(( all the usual things on a new unknown project. ok2
Lookig foward to the whole project, actually. O0
Mick
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Hi Mick
Im still getting all the bits together %) still a few to collect though hope i can make a start on the plant soon :-))
Good luck with your project also post a few pics as you go :D they are a helpfull bunch in the "burnt finger section"
ED
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Found some boiler lagging on polly engineering site its 2mm ceramic is this the correct one for under the timber lagging ?
on the same subject what size brass banding do you use ?
i see most use mahonany planking for lagging what thickness is best? :-))
ED
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Hi Ed,
2mm will be fine.
Your other questions are really personal preference and not really important. As a guide I would suggest 6mm brass bands and 8mm x 1.2-1.5mm mahogany lagging, though your local model shop will probably stock Sapelle as opposed to Mahogany, look the same though.
Greg
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Thanks again Greg
Trouble is dont have a local model shop any more got to get most things online now >>:-(
Does anyone know were i can get a reasonable priced steam control valve for the radio control
found them on the polly site but they are out of stock been looking on various sites but can only find
this one and its twice the price :o
http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog/Models_and_Steam_Fittings.html Looks nice though {-)
ED
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Thanks for everyones help and advise so far :-)) :-)) my shoping list is alot shorter now and most items now ordered
hope i will be able to start soon %) %) bound to have more questions as i go just want to get it right !!
ED
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It sounds like there are several of us going up the same creek. :-)) each in a different part of the world........Waiting on my TRV1A delivery also.
Snoopdog have you decided on or found a control valve?
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Hi Reg only ones i found are these two both seem a bit pricey though :o
http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog/Models_and_Steam_Fittings.html
http://www.kramer-steam.ch/joomla/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=51
Polly engineering do one but awaiting stock its only £17
what boat you going to build ?
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Well I'm like you. All the pretty metal work needs an open launch.
I like the look of Kingston Moldings 45" Yacht Tender (without the cabin)
Nat Herreshoff designed some good looking steam launches around 1880/90 but that requires some real digging for plans.
I don't care for the Elliott Bay or Diana type.
How bout you??
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Agree with you about that cabin does not look nice same with the krick victoria looks a lot better without
i am thinking of getting a solent by metcalf mouldings but use a timber deck and no canopy you have to be inspired by Bernards launches
http://freespace.virgin.net/metcalf.mouldings/solent.htm
something like the one "steam launch nearly ready" its on page 3 near the bottom
ED
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Those look good too.
Bernhards craftmanship is amazing. He is a true artist!
I am torn between his style (elbow fittings w straight pipe everywhere) vs something like what Red Noir was building in his post.(all brass pipe with 90 deg bends & flange pipe ends)
There is currently a Titanic lifeboat for sale on US Ebay. This is one of the hulls that Bernhard has used as well as what Red Noir was going to use.
Reg
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Red Noir's thread
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=22074.0
New thread on building up a TRV1A
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1333359
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Yes i have seen those lifeboat conversions both very nice
I read somewhere that bends are better for the flow of steam dot know if thats right i am sure someone will tell us
they have been very helpfull to me in the steam section :-))
Keep in touch with your build cant wait to make a start on mine still collecting parts and will have to finally decide on a hull
ED
thanks for the links :-))
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Reg & Ed, I have a Kingston Mouldings River Queen which is powered by the Graham Industries VR1A single cylinder engine. It performs very well and looks good on the water so I think the TVR1A twin cylinder engine might be more powerful than is needed for this hull. Certainly you would not need to run it at full throttle. I know Bernhard is running twin cylinder Graham and Monahan engines in River Queen hulls but the Solent hull is bigger and might be better for the twin cylinder engine. I recently part built a Kingston 1912 Yacht Tender for a friend and fitted a P M Research V twin oscillator. It performs really well, steers good and handles quite big waves so it would be a good choice too as would one of the Windermere launch hulls. Plenty to choose from, you just have to start on another as soon as the first is finished! :} :embarrassed: Cheers, Ian.
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I read somewhere that bends are better for the flow of steam dot know if thats right i am sure someone will tell us
Technically a swept bend, the greater the radius the better, is the best for any media, be it gas or liquid, to flow. In our "Toy" sizes it don't make much difference.
Some of us "Of an age" used to spend hours "Gas flowing" the ports on or motorbike engines and "achieved" a perceived performance increase.
PM research cast stick elbows won't make much difference apart from looks.
Regards Ian.
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Thanks to both Ians have decided now to go for the solent hull its a good size as well :-)) and thanks for the tuding advice
ED
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Sorry ment to say tubing not tuding :embarrassed: {-) {-)
ED
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Hi, can somebody tell me about the pricing of the Kramer valve? If you go to the pricing page it says CHF (Swiss francs?) 61.60 including MwSt. Is this some form of tax and if so do they charge the tax when they export? A price conversion to Pounds or Dollars would be fine. Thanks, Ian.
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@Kiwimodeller, 61,6 Swiss francs = 39.6119 GBP according to XE.com.
I have XE.com/ucc (http://XE.com/ucc) universal currency calculator bookmarked because I find it very useful, especially when members suggest suppliers in several different countries.
Geoff
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Thanks for that, it makes the Polly Engineering one at 17pounds sound good but they apparently are out of stockk at present. Cheers, Ian.
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YEP out of stock awaiting delivery is what i was told give them a coule of weeks and try again :-))
ED
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Been trying to order a solent hull from metcalf mouldings for a few weeks but have not had any reply by email or phone {:-{
Is this company still trading!
Does anyone now of any other hulls or hull/ plans for something like the solent want an open launch/workboat style hull around 45" length !!
ED
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Ed, try ordering it from Models by Design www.modelsbydesign.co.uk My understanding is that they now own the moulds for all the Metcalf models except a few that he now sells as complete kits and the Solent is definitely listed on their website. I would happily order a hull from them if only I could find a way to get it here that did not cost more than the price of the hull! Cheers, Ian.
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Thanks once again Ian had a look and will be making an order for one :-)) :-)) frustrating as i want to get started got the engine ,boiler
gas tank waiting on a few bits and pieces so not a lot i can do at the moment
Cheers
ED
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I'm in the same boat as kiwimodeller. Any hulls shipped from the UK usually have more postage costs than the hull price. >>:-(
I am going to try to find someone who wants to buy a hull & see if they can be shipped together, one inside the other to split the shipping costs.
Not many steam launch fiberglass hulls available here in the states.
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Good idea Reg ok2 hope you can find someone else in the US that wants one the postage prices are a bit steep just for a hull
not as if they weigh that much!
ED
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There is also an old post in the steam section by Nick of Monahan steam models of a site in the US who made a couple of hulls
dont know if there still doing them but may be worth a look :-))
its on page 4 steam boat hulls
ED
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Hi Folks,
Regarding the position of the Pressure controller (RDG Tools) and the lubricator.
The general consensus is that the lubricator should be as close to the engine as possible. To me, this makes sense.
RDG tools ressommend that the pressure controller be put after the lubricator, which will then lubricate the controller. This also makes sense.
This then puts the lubricator a fair disrance from the engine.
Is this a problem?
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Good question Michael look forward to seeing what the experts say %)
ED
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If you bought two adjustable lubricators why not put one before and one after, if you have room and the money.
If not you could always make one lubricator with two pressure chambers and supply both sides without comprimising the control valve.
That said, the reason you put the lubricator near the engine is to keep it hot which uses less oil, but the same can be said by keeping it close to the boiler, which would also lubricate everything for you.
Greg
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Thanks Greg that makes things clearer so just one lubricator near the boiler is ok
ED
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Thanks Greg that makes things clearer so just one lubricator near the boiler is ok
ED
In a word, yes.
Glad to be of help.
Greg
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Thank you Greg. :-))
Mick