Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Navy - Military - Battleships: => Topic started by: darrencuk on April 04, 2011, 06:17:30 pm
-
Hi there I just brought a Italeri pt boat for a bargin price of £30 :) I have been told this is quite a rare kit I'm going to try and track down the pt boat crew I am going to make this rc hopefully Bit worried seeing as this is my first rc model but hopefully dad and u guys can help, few things I'm thinking of doing is either running it on 3 grupner 300 motors with 3 props 2m shafts and 25m props or 30m with 3 rudders or do I go for 2 motors and props setup being 2x 540 motors and two rudders what do you guys think? The other thing is does anyone no if this ship has to be camouflaged or did this ship come in other forms thanks guys hopefully some1 can help any info atall is usefull
-
The only thing rare about the kit you bought was the price - you certainly got a bargain!
http://www.wonderlandmodels.com/products/italeri-135-pt-596-torpedo-boat/
Where was yoursfrom at that price and were there any more please?
I think there was an article in the latest MMI mag that covers motorising a 'plastic fantastic' kit but single brushless and Li-po for performance.
-
Certainly got a bargin.
Elco crew available here http://www.emodels.co.uk/plastic-kits/advanced_search_result.php?search_in_description=1&keywords=elco+crew&Submit=Search
As to motors you are going to have to decide if you want it to look scale on display or on the water.
The problems is that the scale displacement of the Elco is 1184 gms i.e. boat floating on its correct waterline.
As far as I can tell the weight of the kit made up will be in the order of 1022 gms. This leaves you 162 gms for motor(s), batteries etc.
The lightest option would be a single brushless motor / li-ion battery set up.
Having said all that if you can accept that it floats below the waterline, Dave Abbott wrote a very good article in Model Boats Kit Special - Winter 2007. Well worth getting call 0844 848 8822. This features 3 motors. Props and shafts featured from http://www.shgmodels.com/acatalog/
Hope this is some help
-
Ive already converted one of these kits, I fitted 3 x graupner 400 speeds and it certanly gave it a decent turn of speed.
there are loads of crew member kist available as well as some very nice "eduard" brass etched parts upgrade kits too, you may have to import from the states , but deffo well worth the money for the added eetails to the machine gun barrels, torpedo racks, grab handles, machine gun bullet strips etc.
I have even added a micro servo to rotate the rear bofors gun.
the model boats magazien did a pretty good write up of the conversion and if you even speak to "SHG marine suplies" they can supply you with a proper conversion kit for it, so you get the rudder kits, brass props, propshafts and propshaft supports.
i can supply you with further info if you need help or more photos of mine if thats any better to assist you.
(http://s1.postimage.org/6onklyys/2010_1016oct18sat_BOATS0024.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/6onklyys/)
(http://s1.postimage.org/6ou6rcxw/P1010011.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/6ou6rcxw/)
(http://s1.postimage.org/6oz5def8/P1010021.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/6oz5def8/)
-
Thanks guys for all your help and advise looking forward to getting started and I got the kit from my friends godfather who owns his own shop
-
Eduard Etched Brass kit here:-
http://www.relishmodels.co.uk/eduard-1-35-elco-pt-596-photo-etch-detail-set.html
I have the detailing Kit for the Trumpetter BR52 Loco Kit and I have to say its absolutely stunning! If the quality of the etches is idicative of the quality of all the kits then I would Highly reccomend it (not to expensive either)
or there is this one
http://www.greatmodels.com/~smartcart/cgi/display.cgi?item_num=LNRLAS35003
Again the lion roar range is highly respected
http://www.lionroar.net/
The site is a bit of pain but some good stuff on there
-
Thanks guys for all the help gregk9 can I ask a few questions and I would love to see pics on the gun being set up on servo and rest the boat just wondered wat brands paints u used on it and wat numbers thanks again
-
Just to give you an idea of the fine additional detailling available with the "eduard" brass etch kit.
there is a very detailled booklet inside the kit box, which gives you all the different colour schemes that were applied to the boat, but go for it, get the camo on, it looks terriffic on the water once fully painted.
(http://s3.postimage.org/11ifggsk/P1000333.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/11ifggsk/)
(http://s3.postimage.org/11ne2i9w/1129.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/11ne2i9w/)
(http://s3.postimage.org/11p1luro/p53025_01b.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/11p1luro/)
(http://s3.postimage.org/11scojr8/p53025_10b.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/11scojr8/)
(http://s3.postimage.org/11u07w90/p53025_00b.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/11u07w90/)
(http://s3.postimage.org/11xbal8k/p53025_04b.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/11xbal8k/)
(http://s3.postimage.org/123xfz7o/p53025_07b.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/123xfz7o/)
-
Ok thank u very much just quick question because me and dad are arguing other props to run it on 3x300 motors well do I need 2x left props and 1 right or is it 2 right and one left we are stuck as we have never done this b4
-
Any three propeller boat should have the outer props handed - ie one r.h. and one l.h. the inner prop - does not matter.
Geoff
-
I dont know if the underside pic of my boats hull shows my actual setup clearly, but I have 2 x rh 1 x lh and it handles ok with these. But go for brass 22mm 3 blades, as i said before, SHG do a proper conversion kit, but you might find the 300 motors a little lacking in performance. My 3 x 400 graupner speeds handle an 11.1v lipo and they give a good length of time in the water too.
300's on a 7.2v stick lasts less than 10 mins.
-
Hi mate I emailed that company as soon as u said still haven't got back to me and can't find phone number for them
-
Hi mate I emailed that company as soon as u said still haven't got back to me and can't find phone number for them
Full details are in the traders directory of this forum,
SHG Model Supplies
Pinfold Lane
Wheaton Aston
Stafford
ST19 9PD
01785 840308
www.shgmodels.com
info@shgmodels.com
-
Sue is very helpful, but if in any doubt, ask to speak to Gerome.
Simply tell him you are converting an Italeri PT boat and he'll know what you need, you just need to confirm to him you want all the conversion kit, or just certain items.
Incidentally, if you opt for the 2mm prop shafts, and you need additional brass support bearings, source from a model train supplier, as "O" gauge train axles are 2mm dia, so a good cheap source of bearings.
I purchased some shaft supports but they had to be hand drilled to take the shafts, so used these brass inserts to act as bearings and supports to prevent damage to the white metal supports.
(http://s4.postimage.org/2nicy0lic/P1010008.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2nicy0lic/)
(http://s4.postimage.org/2nieljy04/P1010010_2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2nieljy04/)
(http://s4.postimage.org/2nihwmmzo/PA143636.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2nihwmmzo/)
(http://s4.postimage.org/2nijk5zhg/PA143638.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2nijk5zhg/)
(http://s4.postimage.org/2nil7pbz8/PA143637.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2nil7pbz8/)
-
Thank u guys I keep ringing no answer. That's ok because I was going to make a start on doing the rear gun on a servo lol just picked up a metal geared 22.2 x 12.0 24.8mm to do the job so I'm glad u posted them pics they have come in handy if u don't mind me asking what did u use as a servo head to get it to work thanks again guys :)
-
I used a micro servo, as the bofors gun is very light anyway, so you dotn need anything too big or heavy to operate it.
All i did to rotate the gun mount was cut a servo horn head down to a simple "T" shape, Drop a piece of plastic tube down out of the gun mount pivot and bond the servo piece to the top of it, after cutting a "notch" to take the tage on the servo head piece.
Offer up the servo to the base of the gun mount and then use this as the basis to make up the servo mountings.
if you add some small pieces of plastic card to the inside of the gun mount, to block out the open holes, it keeps the stern of the boat secure from excess water too, then simply paint these in matt black from the outside, so they still look like "holes" through the mount.
Dont forget the "Eduard" super detail kit, also includes a finer scale gun barrel for the bofors gun, plus finer 40mm shell cases and ammo cartridges, as wellas seats, foot rests, and the gun aiming sights too, so you may have to make a decision if you are going for one of these add on kits too, before you build too much, or you will then have to start cutting things back off.
One thing you can do, is open up the aperture in the engine room vent, it is supplied with some fine mesh, but vents to nothing, so why not cut the internals out, so it vents fresh air to the motors in the hull? Thats what i did and dont have any heating issues.
(http://s2.postimage.org/1u32t86ec/PTBoat_Throttles.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/)
(http://s2.postimage.org/1u39fdkdg/P1010106.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1u39fdkdg/)
(http://s2.postimage.org/1u3edzlus/P1010108.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1u3edzlus/)
(http://s2.postimage.org/1u3jclnc4/PA143639.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1u3jclnc4/)
As for strengthening the hull, I used some square tube plastruct. It adds strength where you need it, for the rudder servo and also to prevent the hull sides from distorting.
Dont use the standard rudder blade for R/c operation, it simply wont turn when you want it too. the small rudders supplied by SHG are fine, but just cut down slightly, but not too much, its better to find you have too much rudder and then need to cut them down, than it just goes in a straight line and you have to replace the rudders fully.
the motor mounts I bonded direct to the hull floor, but for a bit of "BELT N BRACES" i drilled through 2 holes in each mount, through the hull and fitted some small bolts through from the underside and the nuts went on inside, just incase one sharp bang caused a mount to come loose. then simply epoxy over on underside of hull before sanding and painting it.
-
Very handy tips
:-)) :-))
-
Cheers for all the help guys I just picked up a new radio and reciver for boat a plannet t5 2.4 got it for £40 :)
-
Hi there, the kit was featured in Model Boats Magazine Winter 2007 Special. It was a 6 page feature about conversion to r/c using components from SHG Marine near Stafford. They're probably attending the North Shields Show this weekend so won't be around to answer calls until they get back. Their number is 01785 840308, they do a complete conversion kit as far as I know like the one for the Schellboot of same scale. Keep us posted on your progress, Dave. :-))
-
Hello
There are some other build logs on this boat around:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=688351&highlight=italeri (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=688351&highlight=italeri)
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=723548&highlight=pt+596 (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=723548&highlight=pt+596)
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4310.0 (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4310.0)
I have done the conversion myself. I can confirm that weight is an issue. The boat will perform much better in the water if you can keep the weight down. I managed to get my down to 1380 gr. with the following brushless setup:
- 2 off these: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=5482 (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=5482)
- 2 off these: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=7189 (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=7189)
- 1 off these: http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9272 (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9272)
The shafts are home made of 2 mm stainless steel rods in 3 mm brass tubes. Propellers are 25 mm Raboesch (brass). Rudders are home made from brass rod and copper sheet. Steering servo is a 16 gr mini. The battery should be located as fare aft as possible.
If the rudders are small you will get a large turning circle. To improve this you can add a V-tail mixer to get independent motor control, and this will also give you some funny maneuvering capabilities.
Top speed is astonishing. When holding the boat steady in water and giving full throttle each motor draws 5A (at 11.1 V). These motors does not get warm so heat is not an issue and extra ventilation or cooling is not needed. The boat will also have good performance with a smaller battery (7.4 V).
This was just my experience. Good luck with your build whatever set up you choose.
HelgeBe
-
Hi HelgeBe
Thanks for sharing that information with us.
May I ask what length shafts did you use?
What type/length universal joints did you use?
Regards
-
If you are getting from SHG, they will know what to supply, but they usually supply 13" shafts , I had 3 as I fitted 3 graupner speed 400's to mine.
I used SHG's "dog bone" couplings, but they are noisey, so beware if you buy/use these, I wished Id of gone for huco's and may change them when I can afford them.
my boat runs on a 3cell 11.1v lipo and give stunning performance and planes very very well, but DONT go stingy on rudders size!, go verscale/size and fit small/but substantial, otherwise you wont get much in the way of steering, especially as speeds increase. Dont put the battery too far back, or it will dip the stern in too deep and water will wash over the rear deck at higher speeds, so try and get the motors forward as possible and balance the boat with the battery position being centre/to slightly rear.
-
Longshanks,
The brass tubes are approx 260 mm long and the shafts a little bit more. With the motors I have the shafts/tubes could be shortened with 40-50 mm before the motor would touch the hull. I have used the plastic supports supplied in the kit. First glued them together and then enlarged the opening to 3 mm with a Dremel. The solution is not very rigid and I have to be carefull not to bend the tubes. Things has to be damned straight or else it gets noisy. I did it this way because I was looking for a as true to scale appearance as possible. I were not aware of any conversion kits available at that time. The alternative I considered was a standard 4 mm tube with a 2 mm shaft like these: http://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/m2_propshafts.html (http://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/m2_propshafts.html)
The ID of the tube is 2.1 mm. On the motor side of the tubes I have added a plastic housing with a 2 mm ball bearing. On the propeller side I have had nothing extra but I will now try with some very thin copper sheet between the shafts and tubes. There is no oil in the tubes, the only lubrication is whatever water that will penetrate in between the shafts and tubes.
The universal joints is Graupner no 355 without compensating member: http://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/couplings-graupner.html (http://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/couplings-graupner.html)
A smaller 10-14 gr. motor with a 2 mm shaft could probably also do the job. In this case one could try removing the shaft and install the motor directly on the propeller shaft, thus avoiding the universal joint and motor mount, and save some more weight. Just an idea.
HelgeBe
-
Hi Guys,
Many thanks for the information. This will help when I get around to this project.
HelgeBe,
I notice you have painted yours grey is this for one of the European flotillas?
Regards
-
It is one of the ten boats that came to Norway in 1951. I have changed the kit a bit. I am on a vacation now but can post more pictures later.
HelgeBe
-
Look forward to seeing your pictures !
Enjoy your holiday :-))
-
Longshanks & all,
First a little history in brief: 10 Elco 80's where transfered to Norway in 1951 as a part of a common NATO program. They where not economical in use as they required aviation fuel and special fuel depot's had to be established along the coast when these boats where on duty. One was scraped in 1960, 3 in 1961 and 2 in 1962. The rest were transfered to the reserve in 1964 and scraped in 1966. The Elcos where replaced by the "Tjeld" class who had diesel engines and where much more economical in use.
The two first photos are of the Norwegian P956 "Hai" (Shark). I have no drawings of the Norwegian version of the Elco 80' so I have used these photos as basis for my conversion. The most notable difference between P-596 and P956 is that the fore gun, rocket launchers and the liferaft are not there. There is another radar mast and the smoke generator is positioned on aft port side while on aft starboard side there are two depth charges. The torpedotubes are for ex-german 21" torpedoes. The colours are light and dark grey. I have access to other photos taken on board which clearly indicates what is light an what is dark. On the model I have used the colours used by the Norwegian navy today, RAL 7011 and RAL 7040, but it could be that the light grey colour should have some green tone. The radar mast and depth charges are yet to be completed.
If there is anyone who has supplementary information I would be happy if posted here.
I have also made a video I will post later.
HelgeBe
-
Her is the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBEku6JLlfU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBEku6JLlfU)
In the last sequence I have added extra weight to the model so you can see how the performance changes.
HelgeBe
-
Hi HelgeBe,
Your boat looks excellent on the water, well done.
May I ask why you added the extra weight?
longshanks
-
Thanks,
The extra weight was just an experiment to demonstrate what happens if you do so. This model will then sit deeper in the water and trow more water to the sides when going fast. My advise is still to keep the weight of this model to a minimum.
HelgeBe
-
She planes well on the water! Just finished mine- I used three 480s... Piccies and video soon! ok2