Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Steam => Topic started by: broger on June 24, 2011, 08:28:00 pm
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Hello all
I'm new to this forum and have joined becuse a very helpfull member Alius "Patternmaker" was kind enough to answer my call for help from UTube.
I started making the steam launch miranda some 20 years ago when I was working but failed miserably on the making of the hull.
The engine was made from scrap metal from the plans with exception of the crank that I turned out of one piece, it got up to 2,500 revs on air.
and ran nicely on steam but did not measure it as I was too excited at the time.
I'm now trying to make the hull again with the vast help know available on the internet.
My main failing at this stage(and I’m sure there will be many) is how to plank the hull.
The author of the plans produced an article over 3 months that I have copies of but just says skin it with 15tho ply and then plank it?
I've read plenty but really I learn more from Pictures!!
So as not to make my first post too long :-
Is there any one that has any pictures of the stages of planking.
Just running the planks from front to end is not correct but how do you know where to start?
Top, Bottom, a little of each, and is there a pattern as to when you fit what i think are called "fillets"
Thank you for any help you can give I've posted a picture of my engine in it's very sorry state of "Lofting" for 20 years.
(http://s4.postimage.org/sn3f4ox0/image.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/sn3f4ox0/)
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Welcome to the forum Alan
Start by dividing the Stem, Transom and hull moulds into 17 equal divisions this will give you the width of the planks at these positions, starting at the keel working up to the sheerline the planks will be tapered fore and Aft, if you find it does not quite work out you can fit stealer planks.
I personally would not use 15 tho plywood, I used 1/8” mahogany.
Mick
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Thanks Mick
I'm not sure what you said {-) but the pictures tell me a lot.
It looks like you have one full then one tappered?
What glue did you use to secure them?
Alan
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The only planks that are not tapered are the garboard planks next the keel.
A stealer plank is often used when the planks do not quite lie properly to the curvature of the hull the stealer
plank fills the gap, there is 1 stealer per side in the planking, you can just see them about 6" from the stem.
If you do not intend to varnish the hull below the waterline you could start planling from the sheerline
(deck level)
The glue I use is PU Polyurethane rapid adhesive.
Mick
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Thanks Mick
I realy must learn these nautical terms :embarrassed:
Yes I can see what you mean now, one is tappered to a point about 2" before the stern.
I'll let you know (with pictures) how I get on.
Alan
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Have you looked through the Masterclass section of the forum? eg 1915 steam drifter gives some more info and post 6 shows some stealers quite clearly. I can't remember exactly where but there are some quite detailed instructions on planking for beginners somewhere on here.
Since you have built the Miranda engine you might look at the Paddleducks website steam section that shows how to rearrange the existing parts into an overhead crank paddler engine. In that guise it looks far better following a brilliant bit of lateral thinking by that contributor. Sadly the engine and boiler while interesting and working well do look rather ungainly in a launch.
http://www.paddleducks.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4923.0
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hi mate.
planking method does varie according to hull shape.
but as you lay the planks and follow the hull curves it will become apparent where and when to taper a plank.
being sheeted in 'ply' or sheet wood [like a thick veneer] first at least you will only have to lay one layer of planks. :-)
regards
don
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Thank you Gentlemen, some very useful info.
Bee, I've just looked at the Master Class and that is absolutly fantastic.
Just what I was looking for, O a picture is worth a 1,000 words! :-))
The conversion of the Miranda Engine really is thinking outside the box.
Great Idea and a lot of work for the modeler has been averted.
I've posted a few pictures of the progress for you to see, things look a bit more shinny
now. I'm glad I used phosphor bronze for the cylinders and lube unit as I think it
gives a nice contrast.
Alan
(http://s4.postimage.org/30gvlusro/30062011220.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/30gvlusro/)
(http://s4.postimage.org/30h0kgu90/30062011222.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/30h0kgu90/)
(http://s4.postimage.org/30h3vjj8k/30062011224.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/30h3vjj8k/)
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She is looking better know !
(http://s3.postimage.org/qfw6rxl0/04072011232.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/qfw6rxl0/)
(http://s3.postimage.org/qgb2m210/04072011234.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/qgb2m210/)
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Looking good!
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Just in case you guys think I’ve left this, I haven’t I'm just having a really bad time trying to put the planks on this thing.
3 times I've started and still not got the hang of it (big pile of wood in the bin) <:(
I can't find a video or picture step by step that tells you how to do it. (I'm dyslectic, can’t learn be words)
I found a pencil sketch on a web site that gave me an idea because I could not understand why Mick's (patternmaker)
plank was a funny shape, I hadn't realised that you have to taper the ends and curve them to meet the back and front bit!
I'm going to do it in cardboard first and then cut them from that template.
I let you know if I succeeded. :embarrassed:
Alan
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Keep at it Alan, I'm sure you will get there in the end, we all have days when things don't go to plan, I have found its best to leave it for a while then go back to it.
Regards Mick
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Thanks Mick
I'm sure there must be a mathamatic way to do it but cut and past will have to do.
No one else.
Alan
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Allan, if you measure round each mould from the keel to the sheer line ( deck level ) the same at the stem and transom divide those measurements by 15, the amount of planks I would suggest, that will give you the
width of each plank at all moulds, all you have to do is taper the planks to those measurements, example 120mm measurement round the mould divided by 15= 10mm that would be the width of the plank at that mould.
Mick
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Thanks Mick
I've had a go at it in cardboard but these are strait planks
do you have to twist them into shape or do you have a 1" plank and cut a curved 1/2" plank from it.
This what I thought you where doing with the "Wide a Wake"
If I twist the planks at the stern to fit flat on the moulds they curve up towards the keel.
or do you leave them sticking up and sand them down after?
Here are a few pictures to see if I'm on the right track.
Alan
(http://s3.postimage.org/1azu8kb9g/29072011247.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1azu8kb9g/)
(http://s3.postimage.org/1b05tbqpw/29072011248.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1b05tbqpw/)
(http://s3.postimage.org/1b094efpg/29072011249.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1b094efpg/)
(http://s3.postimage.org/1b0he366c/29072011250.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1b0he366c/)
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Hi Allan,
Yes they will be straight planks and there will be a slight twist at the stern and bow, totally different to Wide A
Wake with such wide planks. Clinker planking is completely different to Carvel planking which is what you are
doing on Miranda you will find you will be able to edge bend your planks because they are a lot narrower but of course you must taper them fore & aft.
Do NOT leave them sticking up they must fit edge to edge to allow for sanding.
Mick
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The Sun has risen and there is light at the end of the tunnel :}
Thanks Mick, I might as well email you at home as you seem to be my personnel tutor!
I really appreciate your help
best wishes
Alan
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Sorry forgot to post my drawing
I've drawn the sizes and think this is right.
Alan
(http://s4.postimage.org/9bo02rs4/boat.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/9bo02rs4/)
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Just thought I would show you that I'm making progress
(http://s4.postimage.org/1cto9bdpg/01082011252.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1cto9bdpg/)
(http://s4.postimage.org/1ctrke2p0/02082011257.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1ctrke2p0/)
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Looking good Alan, well done
Mick
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Thank you Mick
I appreciate your interest
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Starting to take shape, :}
(http://s4.postimage.org/2yns7prfo/06082011267.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2yns7prfo/)
(http://s4.postimage.org/2yo0hehwk/06082011268.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2yo0hehwk/)
(http://s4.postimage.org/2yo8r38dg/06082011269.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2yo8r38dg/)
(http://s4.postimage.org/2yofd8mck/06082011270.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2yofd8mck/)
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Hi Alan, its coming on a treat, keep up the good work.
I would have expected more comments and encouragement from other members of the forum being a new
member, its not as if you are a newbie to model boats having built your own engine and boiler.
Regards Mick
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That's looking very good Alan, is it Iroko you've used for the planking? What glue have you used- it looks like Gorrilla Glue?
Greg
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Thank you gondolier88
I'm not sure what wood it is, It came from the Science Lab at school as we have just had a revamp.
I though it was some sort of mahogany?
As you can see I'm a man for metal. Wood now thats a whole new ball game.
All I can tell you is that it bends nice and stays in place with the type of glue that Mick (petternmaker) told
me to use.
It's called BELI-ZELL I've attached a copy of an article in Model Boat Magazine July 2009.
I hope you can read it.
It expands and fills the cracks. It is very easy to remove but I'm posting warts and all
You will never know when its rubbed down and polished.
Alan
(http://s4.postimage.org/35rj0iskk/Glue_2.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/35rj0iskk/)
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Hi Alan,
It's called BELI-ZELL I've attached a copy of an article in Model Boat Magazine July 2009.
I hope you can read it.
It expands and fills the cracks. It is very easy to remove but I'm posting warts and all
You will never know when its rubbed down and polished.
That's great, Gorrilla Glue also expands in the same way, but is HORENDOUS to remove, well done on posting at all points in the build, it's both endearing and interesting to compare with the final result.
Greg
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Thank you Greg
Once the glue has set the bits that have expanded are like foam and can be picked of or left as filler. see picture
It does however leave a stain on your figers that has to wear off !
The glue is very good as I have twisted the planks cold and it holds them after just an hour
but as the artical says takes 24 to go hard.
Just as a mater of interest, If I was to run a steam gun over the planks after, would it take out the tention?
cheers
Alan
(http://s2.postimage.org/2th4c6kkk/01082011256.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2th4c6kkk/)
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Just as a mater of interest, If I was to run a steam gun over the planks after, would it take out the tention?
Alan
Simply; no. Steaming needs to heat all the fibres in the timber to the same temperature at a steady rate, and by putting warm steam/water into a model at this stage is just asking for problems.
The timber will over the next few weeks begin to take up the shape you've put into them anyway so don't worry.
Greg
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Thank you Greg
That has put my mind at rest, I was worried in case it sprang open latter.
cheers
Alan
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Way Hay me hearties, I'm a full Mayhemer, Thank you.
Can't post for a while I'm on holiday
I'm going to make a new thread for this but if you reading it any way:-
Do you know of any one who has made a model of the 'Alaska'
It's a Thames launch built in 1883 at Bourne End by W. and J.S. Horsham and Co.
It has had various refits but is still alive and kicking.
(http://s3.postimage.org/imsj3mo4/8dc5.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/imsj3mo4/)
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Holiday's ? how long for....!
here's a pic of a friend's Miranda (I've lost contact with him sadly)
Planking? Hmmm, not easy to describe how to, I made a small fishing boat some years ago, planked hull...can't find the build pic's at the moment %)
some inspiration here for when you come back !!!
JB.
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Thank you JB, it was only a weekend with my wifes brother.
Your Miranda looks realy good, well done.
My next post wil be the hull completed so it will be a bit of a holiday!!
Alan
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Thank you JB, it was only a weekend with my wifes brother.
Your Miranda looks realy good, well done.
My next post wil be the hull completed so it will be a bit of a holiday!!
Alan
Alan, I must point out that the Miranda in the photo's I've posted is not my own work!
A good friend built the Miranda from scratch, it was completely hand built by him down to the handrails, the only parts he had to buy were the little balls on top of the stanchions, the planks were pinned in place with cane drawn through holes in a metal plate to reduce the size down to what he wanted, commitment and dedication to the job in hand, a superb piece of modelling.
The steam engine and boiler were also hand made by my friends brother, he modified the engine as he felt he could improve the design.
Unfortunately have not had any contact with my friend 'M' for around 5 years now, he was unwell and having hospital tests etc.
Here's a photo of one of my efforts which (taken today, I built this one about 6 years ago,) pales into insignificance compared to the Miranda. :-)) I did plank the hull though...all my own work! :embarrassed:
JB.
P.S. please excuse the background clutter, not a lot of space here at present :embarrassed: X 5 I think!
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Hi Alan, these pictures of Miranda might give you some inspiration, although I'm sure you dint need it now you
have almost finished the planking the difficult part.
Best wishes Mick
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Well nearly there
This is it before I start making my own Sahara from oroko (I found out that this is the wood I'm using)
I'm publishing it like this so that any other "new to modeling" person does not get put of by the wonderfull stuff on offer
and think it was all made like that first. Until I'm an expert and can do it properly the first time.
(http://s4.postimage.org/1n9d7iffo/22082011286.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/1n9d7iffo/)
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Well done Alan.
Mick
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Thank you OB1
Your apprentice has nearly finished
Just a bit of filling and varnish.
I really chuffed with myself and would thank all who have given advice.
but in particular you Mick for persevering with me.
I intend to put Miranda on the back burner after this to consentrait on making a model of the 'Alaska'
http://www.thames-steamers.co.uk/
(http://s2.postimage.org/2lqhzj0bo/02092011308.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2lqhzj0bo/)
(http://s2.postimage.org/2lqrwr3ac/02092011309.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/2lqrwr3ac/)
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Well done Alan, you should be very proud of her.
Are you going to do the stem and varnish her before starting Alaska proper?
Greg
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Looking very good Alan, well done,just shows with a little perseverance what can be achieved,
Just one question, why not finish Miranda before starting another build.
Regards Mick
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Thank you Greg
Yes I will finish the hull completely as this is still part of my learning curve.
Thanks Mick
good question, I would like to finish one project while I still can.
so I'm figuring Alaska is about a 2 to 3 year project and no one else has made her.
It would be really good to make a model of a launch that is still working.
I hope that by showing my efforts here, warts and all, it will inspire other new members to take up this fantastic hobby.
If I can do it anyone can. :-))
best wishes
Alan
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dd
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Well I did as I said and finished Miranda's Hull, Will varnish her when I learn the technique
Thank you every one for your comments and encouragement
I'm know working on the plans for Alaska with the invaluable help of Greg (gondolier88)
Best wishes
Alan
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Well done Alan, looking very good, I still think you should finish Miranda before you start on another build as you
have the steam plant.
Regards Mick
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Thanks Mick
I know what your saying but Miranda will get finished, god willing
Regards
Alan