Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Model Boating => Topic started by: slewis on March 13, 2007, 10:24:30 pm
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OK I have paid for a model from the states and am wondering as to what I am going to get asked to pay when it gets to my place of work as I may not be there when it arrives and would like to leave the relevant amount of ££ in reception for posty .
The cost is $440 inc post and packing.
So if anyone knows or indeed works for HM Customs can you give me an idea so I can leave something along the right lines in ££ for them when its delivered .
Ta chaps
Shane
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If it's coming via royal mail and there are charges to be paid they will deliver a notice of payment required. At least they did when I had a radio set sent from USA.
BTW, you won't like the charge the post office make for this service, it's exorbitant.
Hope this helps,
Scottie
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Its £13.50 but I WANT to know how much the customs bit is so I can leave the right or close to amount in our reception area when it gets here .
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Sorry, perhaps I wasn't specific enough. They will deliver a notice of payment NOT the goods. The goods won't be delivered until after they've received payment.
Scottie
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Ta Scottie but I want the goods delivered and the payment made to my work place so if anyone has a % of the amount its going to be against the cost price it would be beneficial to me .
It hasnt to be spot on but I dont want the money i leave to be outside of the bracket as it were so the poor girl on reception is chucking in her lippy to pay for it . ;D ;D
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Shane
Sorry, mate, but it's just not that easy. Nothing involving HMRC ever is.......ask me how I know. There are two elements to any import charge. The first is the duty, which in turn depends on the tariff code which applies to the item in question. This is a 13 digit number which should be declared by the shipper, usually either on the package or with the accompanying documents. There may be a NIL rate of duty or it might be positive - there's no logic to it. If the rate is, say, 5%, then this will be added to the fully-delivered cost to obtain the "value for importation". Even then the bu66ers haven't finished with you, because there will be a VAT addition which is calculated at 17.5% of the import value, including the transport costs and duty. Yep - in this case you pay VAT on the duty. Who said life was fair?
A fag-packet guesswork calculation says that, if you work on 10% duty, that will give you $484 + 17.5% VAT = $568, which is very roughly £300 if you include the £13.50 for Royal Mail. I may be high on the duty rate - hope so. Can't see Office Doris having the pay Postie behind the door at that.
Before you complain to me about the silliness of all of this beaurocracy, please be aware that I retired from HMRC six months ago and I haven't missed it one little bit.
The best of British luck, mate.
FLJ
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Shane
Sorry, mate, but it's just not that easy. Nothing involving HMRC ever is.......ask me how I know. There are two elements to any import charge. The first is the duty, which in turn depends on the tariff code which applies to the item in question. This is a 13 digit number which should be declared by the shipper, usually either on the package or with the accompanying documents. There may be a NIL rate of duty or it might be positive - there's no logic to it. If the rate is, say, 5%, then this will be added to the fully-delivered cost to obtain the "value for importation". Even then the bu66ers haven't finished with you, because there will be a VAT addition which is calculated at 17.5% of the import value, including the transport costs and duty. Yep - in this case you pay VAT on the duty. Who said life was fair?
A fag-packet guesswork calculation says that, if you work on 10% duty, that will give you $484 + 17.5% VAT = $568, which is very roughly £300 if you include the £13.50 for Royal Mail. I may be high on the duty rate - hope so. Can't see Office Doris having the pay Postie behind the door at that.
Before you complain to me about the silliness of all of this beaurocracy, please be aware that I retired from HMRC six months ago and I haven't missed it one little bit.
The best of British luck, mate.
FLJ
Spot on FLJ and obviously the voice of experience. I think the most profound comment you made was " There is no logic to it" and that says it all.
You can't predict or even try to estimate as it all semms to depend on who you are dealing with at the time and not just thier interpretation of the rules and an items value (which is nothing to do with what it cost you!) but also thier mood at the time!!
Shane, even if you ask them up front there is no guarrantee that they will honour such comments so you are not going to be able to say for certain what it is going to cost.
As FLJ says, best of british luck!
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When we order anything from overseas we ask that it is declared as a "gift", or "plastic parts", and that they declare the value as small as they can (normally $20)
we havent had to pay anything yet.
Grant ;D
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Model boat kits....unpowerd have no duty other than standard VAT.
The import code must be sourced 'before' purchase or the charge may indeed incurr duty.
Theres a little about it on my site at www.badbills boatyard.co.uk
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When we order anything from overseas we ask that it is declared as a "gift", or "plastic parts", and that they declare the value as small as they can (normally $20)
we havent had to pay anything yet.
Grant ;D
I bet no-one in UK Customs has thought of that trick! :o
I'm certainly not going to moralise about the evasion of tax - when you see how some of the money collected is wasted you could cry. All I can do is to warn anyone who tries this that they risk having their goods confiscated AND paying a fine equal to the amount of the VAT and duty evaded AND having to pay the VAT and Duty again if they want their goods back AND having a criminal record set up.
If you want to scare yourselves silly then full details of HMRC rules about postal imports appear elsewhere on this forum. Play it straight and you'll have few problems. Try to be sneaky and sooner or later you'll come unstuck.
Suit yourselves, but telling porkies to the Chalkies is illegal.
FLJ
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My last import from US worked out at £1 (GBP) to $1 (USD) so $77 of K&B spares cost me about £77
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SWMBO frequently imports chocolate making stuff from the US - the suppliers are open and honest about what is in the packages. The collection of duty seems to be vartiable, but never particularly excessive. There have been occaisions when duty has been due but it has been waived because of the cost of collecting it was excessive
Wom
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when i have ordered parts for my car i have always asked them to mark it as a gift or used parts. i have been doing this for 5 years now and never paid a penny in import duty or vat by the way dont tell anyone
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Thanks for ALL the information , as the model has already been brought and paid for I will just have to sit back and see what figure materialises when it gets here .
I,ll make the money up to £70 that should be more than enough I reckon ;)
Some good information there chaps
Many thanks
Shane
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when i have ordered parts for my car i have always asked them to mark it as a gift or used parts. i have been doing this for 5 years now and never paid a penny in import duty or vat by the way dont tell anyone
And now you've told the world...
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Sorry, perhaps I wasn't specific enough. They will deliver a notice of payment NOT the goods. The goods won't be delivered until after they've received payment.
Scottie
Why not the goods ? A few years ago I ordered maybe 3 planes from different suppliers in the states and they all arrived with postie demanding the ££ . I dare say if I hadnt got the money on the spot then yes they would of taken it away for me to go and collect when paying my cash out.
The reason for this thread is that as its been a few years I had really forgotton the way its sorted out and things are now beginning to make sence to me .
Ta lads
Shane
Oh I also DONT think its such a wise idea publicly admitting defrauding HMRC either ;)
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Over the last year we've had several people on here advocating the scam of declaring imports as gifts. Model boat stuff must represent a tiny, tiny proportion of the items coming into the country which are declared as such. It beggars belief that the Customs authorities are not aware of this and will regard such declarations as not worth the parcels they are written on. So in fact you are probably more likely to have a "gift" package opened than a regular one. The big difference is that if you have had it declared as a gift and it isn't then you are likely to be hammered as FLJ quite rightly points out. Seems to me a no brainer that you play it straight and are just as likely to escape charges, but legiimately, on the basis that the authorities are too understaffed to check everything that comes through. Not your problem, but you will benefit from it.
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I agree entirely with that Colin
Indeed I would go so far as to say if you "have" found a way around it DONT publicise it on a public forum where your ip address can be collected .
I have NO qualms about paying what ever is due I just want to know what it is so I dont have to go collect the damn thing myself when it gets here ! ;D ;D ;D
Oh and I will still save £35 on the best price I can find over here if I can find a supplier as they all say its not being imported into the Uk . I am happy anyway ;)
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Over the last year we've had several people on here advocating the scam of declaring imports as gifts. Model boat stuff must represent a tiny, tiny proportion of the items coming into the country which are declared as such. It beggars belief that the Customs authorities are not aware of this and will regard such declarations as not worth the parcels they are written on. So in fact you are probably more likely to have a "gift" package opened than a regular one. The big difference is that if you have had it declared as a gift and it isn't then you are likely to be hammered as FLJ quite rightly points out. Seems to me a no brainer that you play it straight and are just as likely to escape charges, but legiimately, on the basis that the authorities are too understaffed to check everything that comes through. Not your problem, but you will benefit from it.
Spoken like a true Admiral! Customs Preventive staff (aka Chalkies) are only human. Imagine that you are one of said staff and your personal seizure rate is down, probably through no direct fault of yours (folk don't tend to write "Drugs" or "Kiddy Porn" on packages - well, not often). You're being heavily leaned on by the Senior Officer, under threat of a lousy appraisal and perhaps a "Less Effective" performance marking. This means no pay increase - not even the promised 1.9%. Malpaso! Suddenly a great big brown box appears from the USA, weighing several pounds, with an iffy/vague Tariff number and the word "gift" scrawled on it. This beggar just HAS to be worth more than £37 quid so it's gotta warrant a shufti at the very least. What are you going to do, hey? Out comes the box-cutter......
Yes - we all would, wouldn't we? Just like the traffic warden down on issuing tickets or the copper down on traffic offences.
HOWEVER if it wasn't for folk playing fast and loose with the law then there'd be no Customs staff and the price of Class A filth would hit the floor.
So keep it up, guys, and let's support our local Chalkies!
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With you all the way FLJ :) :)
Can someone get Martin to instate a damn thumbs up smiley as its soo usefull ;D ;D
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I've just ordered the Dumas American Beauty from mack products and after reading this thread i'm now sh#ting myself
about the bill that i'm due. keeping fingers crossed it's not to heavy.
jenno.
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If you send it to a commercial adress you will pay duty.
I have had to pay duty and the processing charge on educational books because I had them sent to a work address.
If you send stuff to a home address it is recommended.
Worst case is you have to go and collect it from the local parcel depot.
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I once rescused four huge terracotta plant pots from the garbage room on the ship. I asked my missis to look into what such a thing would cost in the UK and decided that shipping them home would be well worth the effort as it was going to cost me in the region of $200.00 to ship them to the UK. 50 bucks each, 25 quid, can't go wrong!
I asked the chippy to make me a packing case (rank has it's priveliges!) and sent them on thier way. Unfortunately the estimate of shipping costs was a bit out and they ended up costing about $300.00, never mind still worth it. When I eventually got them I unpacked them and they went superb by the side of the drive. Weeks later I received a bill from the Chalkies for an additional £200.00 for the import duty!
As we have said there are no set rules of any sort. This was only a couple of years ago and I had no choice other than to pay!!
And the punch line?.......during the first winter they all cracked and fell apart after the first frost and they all went into the skip! :D :D :D :D
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And the punch line?.......during the first winter they all cracked and fell apart after the first frost and they all went into the skip!
That's a shame Bunkerbarge - still, I bet they were hurricane proof though!
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It would seem to a bit simpler over here, as any item ordered from overseas, as long as it is not also produced here, incurs no duty or any other costs, works for me.... 8) 8)
Roy
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It would seem to a bit simpler over here, as any item ordered from overseas, as long as it is not also produced here, incurs no duty or any other costs, works for me.... 8) 8)
Roy
And I don't suppose you see much frost :D :D ;)
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Hi guys,
My American Beauty finally arrived today from Ameria so i can tell you the exact cost.
cost of model $200.00
" " fittings $ 66.00
cost of shipping $67.05
handling $9.00
Total $ 342.05 or £176.64
That was from the American side , Now from our side.
Import duty £0.00
Excise duty £0.00
V.A.T £30.23
Parcelforce clearance fee £8.00
Total £38.23
Hope this will help.
jenno.
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Nice one Jenno ;)
Hopefully when mine gets here I can report a similar figure (ish)
NOT holding me breath though :'(
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just to confuse the issue my mate ordered two kits over the net one for me and one for him, he paid with his credit card and had them delivered to his and my address. He got a bill for duty to be paid on his kit, but I didn't... any ideas?
Si
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Si
Yeah ............you just got lucky! Maybe the Assistant Preventive Officer had gone for a leak when your parcel came past on the conveyor. There's no justice in the world, you know.
FLJ
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Jenno,
My American Beauty finally arrived today from America
I was thinking of getting this kit myself.
Any chance of starting a thread with some information about the kit please as I dont want to hyjack this thread (or a PM to me)
Terry.
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I wonder if our esteemed Mr Jacket can answer a question. I've been self employed for many years, and one of the first things my Accountant told me was never to upset the Inland Revenue, or give them any reason to delve deeper into your accounts, and this was undoubtedly excellent advice. Once the tax people put a mark on your file, it stays with you for life, and they examine everything even more carefully, you're marked down as 'dodgy' for evermore. Is there any way that the Customs people can operate in the same way? I run a mail order business, and have probably sent thousands of packages overseas over the years, but have always been careful to make full and honest customs declarations. I've never had any comebacks, and foreign customers have never complained to me about the import duty they have to pay, but if I started under-declaring values or falsely marked goods as 'gifts', is there any mechanism by which our beloved UK customs could get back at me? Since every package is now barcoded, do they have any records of who sends what overseas and to where? But since they aren't collecting revenue on them, maybe they aren't too concerned about goods that are leaving the Country, rather than being imported.
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just to confuse the issue my mate ordered two kits over the net one for me and one for him, he paid with his credit card and had them delivered to his and my address. He got a bill for duty to be paid on his kit, but I didn't... any ideas?
Si
Could it be his was the billing address and yours wasn't ???
Clive :)
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Your accountant gave you good advice Anmo. Given that the Inland Revenue recently merged with Customs and Excise one might expect more joined up working in future. However a friend on the Customs side tells me they hate each other!
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1. Is there any way that the Customs people can operate in the same way?
2. ....if I started under-declaring values or falsely marked goods as 'gifts', is there any mechanism by which our beloved UK customs could get back at me?
3. ....do they have any records of who sends what overseas and to where?
Anmo
1. Yes; and they do. Don't forget also that the Revenue and Customs are now one big department with shared information, so if you upset the VATman then his Income Tax mate may well want a slice of you too.
2. I can't say for UK Customs as you'd not strictly be "knowingly concerned in avoiding UK revenues", but be aware that you might be "blacklisted" by any country whose Customs discover you being naughty with their import rules. Your customers there are hassled so they stop buying from you. Also the foreign customs send info to UK Customs and you're back to 1. above; the logic being that if you can do it to Johnny Foreigner then you'll be doing it to Her Maj, too. Just what you need, huh?
3. I'm afraid I haven't a clue.
BTW, The Admiral's post came in while I was typing this, so I can confirm the enmity between ex-IR and ex-C&E staff in HMRC. This is largely to do with their vastly different cultures and grades for doing similar work. Former VAT and Customs staff see the ex-IR people as ignorant and overgraded supervisors while the ex-IR staff regard their ex-C&E counterparts as undisciplined cowboys. There's a degree of truth in both! As my mate said when G Brown announced the unholy union of the two, "this two-ton budgie will never fly".
I'm just glad I got out when I did.
FLJ
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Well it has been a while since I asked the question but FINALLY today the parcel arrived
the kits in Uk ££ was £224 (inc delivery)
I was asked for £46.50 of which VAT was £38.50 and parcel forces cut was £8 .
Which is roughly 20% of the total (give or take a bit)
I am quite pleased with that and hopefully will be starting a build thread on it this weekend when I have had a chance to read the plans and sorted the wood out ;)
Cheers guys
Shane
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Shane
Thanks for letting us know how much HMRC charged you; it will be useful for anyone buying a kit from the States in future. Seems Jenno was nearer the mark than I was. In this instance I'm so pleased to have been wrong!
BTW what was the kit?
FLJ
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Here you go FLJ
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3729.0;topicseen (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3729.0;topicseen)
wish me luck !
Re your estimate I appreciate it can never be more than that , an estimate ,but it did give me an idea of what it would cost and the office girl didnt have to part with her charms to make up the difference either !
Shane
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FullLeatherJacket,
when you was a customs screw, and you opened such big box and found a really cool toy did you's all have a play with it before wrapping it back up and sending it on its way, bet ya did ;D
what was the most stupid, silly or really embarrassing thing did you find?
Illegal porn? :P( Moderated )
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Chief Chalky? Nah - that was a job for numpties, mate. Half a pound of weed in a hairy's rucksack or a couple of clinking bottles in a drunk's "Duty Free" carrier and you'd think they were God's Gift, the way they carried on. Failed traffic wardens, most of 'em.
I kept my head down and let the Death or Glory mob get on with it. Never worked in the channels so I can't tell you any funny stories first hand. What I did hear, though, was that kiddy porn makes you feel physically sick no matter how hard you might think you are.
Didn't please the punter who'd paid fifty quid each for a dozen mucky videos in Amsterdam. After Chalky had fallen over them they were checked for "content". 30 seconds of Swedish teenagers with no clothes on and then three hours of badly-recorded Walt Disney cartoons............priceless.
BTW for the benefit of the travel virgins among our readers, "Chalkies" refers to the uniformed Thin Blue Line who were once known to attend when flights or ferries came in from foreign. Once they'd eyeballed you and turned your luggage inside out they did you the great favour of refusing to repack it.....but they did make a cross with chalk on the outside. This signalled to any colleague further down the line that there was nothing (left) of any interest therein.
These days, it is said, customs preventive work is "intelligence-based", which means there are no staff within a hundred miles of a flight when it lands.
Cynical? Moi? Help yourselves.
FLJ 8)
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I worked at the only airfield accepting flights from Cyprus during the trouble in 1975. A very attractive young lady wearing sprayed on trousers approached Ted, one of our elderly and staid customs guys. "anything to declare" says he. "Only my snake" she replied holding up a vanity case, which on inspection contained a 5ft snake. Apparently she was a 'dancer', but not with the royal ballet :o
The look on Ted's face was a picture - must have made his year.
Doug