Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Beginners start here...! => Topic started by: irishcarguy on September 11, 2011, 05:05:06 pm
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Hi all, Do any of you know if it is possible to find real glass 1/2 to 1mm thick to make bridge windows with. I called a few local glass shops but got no help when I told them what I wanted it for. Am I looking for the impossible ??. Any suggestions / help would be appreciated. Mick B.
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Any particular reason for wanting real glass over one of the various plastics?
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Hi Martin, I thought it would last much better than plastic & would not go opaque over time. Also it would not be affected by the glue used to install it, thanks for the fast reply,Mick B. PS= the downside would be breakage, but then again lots of details are easy to break if you are not careful.
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Microscope slides, but why on earth would you want to put real glass into a model? It'll be damn near impossible to cut and easy to break...
Just do what the rest of us do and use clear plasticard ;)
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35 mm photographic slide glass mounts, expensive and harder to get in these days of digital photography. Why bother? Plenty of suitable clear plastics available for modelling windows.
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How about microscope slides? You can get them from fleaBay, I just checked.
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How about microscope slides?
There's an echo in here {-)
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What about Polycarbonate etc, the stuff they make conservatory roofing and car lights from, that's meant to have a pretty good longevity?
http://www.theplasticshop.co.uk/polycarbonate-sheet-1900-0.html?gclid=CLOXrJPOlasCFYIKfAod8hwJew
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I have seen models with glass windows and you do notice the difference, it does look better. Not easy to get hold of though.
Colin
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Boy oh Boy you guys are for ever so helpfull, I was thinking also about how much better it would look. I am aware that I would break a fair amount in the cutting process. In the meantime I Googled it & got a German site that is a revelation in the different types & quality of glass. I will contact them & see what they say & ask about shipping, quantities, pricing etc. I will post the information as & when I get it. Thank You all again, Mick B.
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Plastic windows installed with Canopy Glue. No hazing and it holds very well.
http://www.ehobbies.com/paapt56.html
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I phoned the German company that make all sorts of glass, some as thin as .03mm. I was told to fill out their website form with all my contact information which I did, lo & behold in less than one minute they acknowledged my email. I am now waiting for a quote. I will keep you all informed as information is available. Mick B.
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Hi all, Do any of you know if it is possible to find real glass 1/2 to 1mm thick to make bridge windows with. I called a few local glass shops but got no help when I told them what I wanted it for. Am I looking for the impossible ??. Any suggestions / help would be appreciated. Mick B.
You should not have told them what it was for.
Have you not heard of health and safety ? {:-{
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Hi, DickyD, I did not tell them what it was for, it seems they sell a lot to learning institutions , University's, Colleges, Labs, etc. I guess you could class me as learning institution (don't know much yet about this stuff) LOL.
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You can buy a sheet of this glass and have it laser or waterjet cut into exact sizes for your glazing needs.
http://www.corninggorillaglass.com/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=gorilla%2520glass&utm_campaign=Branded%2520Gorilla%2520Glass
You can possibly buy used pieces from cell phone recyclers. Some flat panel television screens are utilizing this now, specifically the frameless types.
Call a non-Apple service center for iPad glass screen repair remnants. They use Gorilla glass and may gift it to you.
You can have hundreds of pieces laser cut for around $150.00. You can get the price per window down to around $.50, if you can find enough free glass.
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http://dealnews.com/features/You-Know-Cornings-Gorilla-Glass-Is-Good-But-How-Good-/462848.html
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Just found out that Corning will send out free samples of the the unstrengthened glass.
This is plenty strong enough for scale windows.
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I just realised that the the thin glass from photographic slide mounts ( wess ) may do the trick. Certainly they will be large enough for the Fairmount Alpine. Tomorrow I will measure the Smit Nederland that I am in the process of building to See if they are large enough for the bridge windows. I will let you all know how they fit. I have loads of glass slides since my days doing photography, I shot mostly slides at that time.
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I have checked the glass used in "Wess" 35mm slide mounts. It will certainly work on some windows. The dimensions are as follows, 4 mm x 2.5 mm & as near as I can measure the thickness it is .75 mm. I have not tried to cut it yet, I will keep you all posted on my "smashing" work. PS. "Wess" also make 2 1/4" square slides, I will check them out( I Don't have any at present ) Mick B.
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If any of you would like a sample of this glass just send me a PM & I will gladly send you a sample free I will even pay the postage.( It is really nice glass & there is lots available as I get it from "WESS" slide mounts & they are not in much demand anymore.) They come up cheap on "fleabay regularly. Mick B.
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I have now measured the "wess" glass thickness, it is .68mm or .026", pretty thin but strong. Mick B.
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Hello irishcarguy, I know you have your heart set on using glass, but I found using Ferrero Roche (the chocolates) clear plastic boxes are good, this type of plastic can be filed and the glue I use (Uhhu) doesnt 'melt' it. You just have to find a box or two in the shop that hasnt been scratched. At least if no good you can be in the wifes good books and let her eat the chocs. {-) Good luck with the glass however if you go with that..GN 8)
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Thank you Green Nomad, it's not so much that I wanted to have glass as not to have the plastic supplied with the kit go foggy & look horrible after awhile. I tend to think outside the box looking for a "better" way of doing things. Of course things don't always work out that way. The glass from the slide mounts is really nice stuff, (optical quality ) "Wess" use the same glass in their larger slide mounts 2" x 2" so it would probably fit most boat windows. I have not tried to cut it to any particular size yet & this might prove impossible but I am going to give it a go & see what happens. I will try to keep all that are interested posted. Getting a high quality glass cutter will be key, I tried one small scribed line with a regular metal scriber on a piece & it broke right on the scribed line so it looks promising. I think glass will give the windows a real classy look, here's hoping anyway. Mick B.
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I know a few people before me have mentioned glass microscope slides. Most all the ones I found were 3" x 1" or smaller. While I was looking through online stores that sell it, and came across this one with a larger size.
http://www.tedpella.com/histo_html/slides.htm#anchor1308869
Go down the list a ways to Prod# 260204 these are close to 2.95" x 1.97" x 0.047"
At some point I expect to buy some myself for the same purpose. :-)
The same site sells them up to 7" x 5".
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Apismelifera, a terrific site, I am glad I raised the subject in the first place. Thank you. Mick B.
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Just to thro in my two pennerth, Revell do a glue that is specially deisgned for clear plastic, such as canopies etc. you could try that as it wont fog the perspex
http://www.affinitymodels.co.uk/p75975/REVELL-CONTACTA-CLEAR/c0-6476-6477
regards
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I have an idea that you can cut thin glass with a pair of sharp scissors if you do in a container of water...I'm pretty sure I've seen it done in a youtube video.
Rich
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Thanks Rich, if you find any more information let me know. I am a bit behind on my build but I have not given up on using thin glass. If I am succesfull I will post the details on here. Mick B.
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Try this, Mick..
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1634739/how_to_cut_a_piece_of_glass_under_water/ (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1634739/how_to_cut_a_piece_of_glass_under_water/)
Rich
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When in high school I cut the microscope slides with a carbide scribe and a brass straight edge. Lay the glass down on a firm flat surface. Place the straight edge on top where needed. Scribe the glass once firmly with the scribe. Then pick up the glass and apply bending pressure at the scribe line. So as to stretch the scribed surface, moving the edges of the scribed surface away from each other. This glass is very thin and requires very little pressure to separate. Easy, once you try it a few times. Always wear safety glasses. Tiny tittle pieces of glass can fly off at the edge.
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Apis, thank you very much, it makes a lot of sense. I have hundreds of slides to practice with. I was wondering what tittle bits of glass was though, LOL. Mick B.
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Hi Rich, That was quite amazing to watch, you would need to grind the edges smooth after, a friend has a machine for doing that, she does glass work in a kiln. I will post any results that I get good or bad. Mick B.
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You can smooth the edges quite easily by hand, pop down to your local glass merchants and ask nicely for some used arissing cloth (that's not a misspell, the word is 'arissing'), it's very similar to emery paper. Just take great care as you rub the edges down, wear a good pair of safety gloves when you do it.
Rich
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I think I'd still prefer them made from a CD case. BY.
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I think I'd still prefer them made from a CD case. BY.
Agree, good option, same result and less drama/hazards. :-)) :-))
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Hi Brian, I never knew you could do that. What do you cut them with & what glue do you use. ?. Mick B.
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Suppose also, that the blank (untreated for recording use) CD/DVD that are used for packing bulk discs, could also be used for windows.
Yes/No
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Hi Ray, I had an idea that glass would look much better than anything else I had seen to date. That was what prompted the question in the first place. I have a lot of glass slides that I think I can use the glass from. Cutting may be a problem, I have not had time to go to the glass shop to ask for their expertise on how to cut the slide glass. I know there are easier ways of making the windows but I kinda set my mind on using glass. I found a company in Germany that can supply & cut the glass the size I want but the cost is out of sight. From the prices quoted it would be in the thousands of dollars. I appreciate all the help & suggestions on here but I have not given up on the idea of having glass windows. Sometimes we push the envelope & discover new ways & things by so doing, who knows what I might discover. If I do the forum members will be the first to know. Mick B.
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Glass DOES look better, you don't see it very often so people don't realise it, but put a model with glass windows next to one with almost any sort of plastic and you will really notice the difference.
Also, over time, many plastics are affected by UV light and fog to a greater or lesser extent. That is not to say don't use plastic, it is fine for general use, but glass does give that little extra - and it shows.
Colin
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Thanks Colin, I needed the moral support. I just think it will look good too. Mick B.
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If you look at Martin Howe's and Baylis boats they use glass and you can tell as they have No scratches and they don't start to go opaque with age , glass for me every time.
Peter
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Thanks Peter, I am with you all the way. Now we have to find a good reliable & inexpensive source for supplying & if possible cutting the glass for us. Mick B.
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One thing that's always worth a try is to visit your glass merchants and ask one of the cutters nicely (maybe with a bottle of something as an incentive) to show you the basic skills of glass cutting....once you have those then you can practice on thinner and thinner glass until you are quite happy cutting paper thin glass.
Rich
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I bought a Proxxon band saw with the diamond wire band for cutting CF and stained glass window panels.
I'm hoping it can cut the small windows.
http://www.dugnorth.com/blog/uploaded_images/proxxon-band-saw.jpg
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Hi Sunworksco, make sure you have very good eye & face protection wear protective gloves too, the best you can get. As you know you only have two eyes & there are no replacements the last time I checked, Mick B.
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Hi Sunworksco, make sure you have very good eye & face protection wear protective gloves too, the best you can get. As you know you only have two eyes & there are no replacements the last time I checked, Mick B.
do you have to wear a fluorescent vest {-) {-)
Peter
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Yes Peter that is so they can find the body after you have wrote yourself off LOL. Mick B.
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Hi.
I think it is a no go for glass that thin I have been in the window trade for 45 years and never seen glass thiner than 2 /3 mm and that was from windows around war time when it had wavey lines in it could you not go for perspex?
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Hi Pete, the slide glass that I have is only.027 inch thick. The glass that they use in cell phones & other electronic devices of that nature also use very thin glass. There is a German company that makes glass thinner than that .03mm. The problem with their glass is cost, a square of their glass measuring 300mm is in the region of 460.00 euros. Needless to say they will also cut it for you, you just don't want to know the cost. ( they cut it with water jets, on a special machine just for glass ) I have enough slide glass to do many boats, the problem is cutting it to size. Because it is so thin it breaks very easily. This is what I have to find a solution to now. I am still working on it but I have been ill over the last month & have had to put things on hold for now. Thank you so much for your input & interest, Mick B. PS= I want to use glass because I think it looks the best & does not fog up in time like all the plastics do.
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I don't know if this will be of any use to you but around 50 years ago i used to work for a company that produced Golay coils, something to do with early lasers. The lab technicians used to cut very thin glass ,around 1/64 thick, in two ways.
1. Bed the glass on something like the blue tac of the day so it was supported, and then score with a diamond, while still held on the blue tack press the two ends of the glass and snap.
2. As above but score the glass with a mini grinder, and snap or they may have cut right through. in either case she wore eye protection, water was used as a lubricant .
I only remember this because the girl lab technician was a right little goer, and before anyone complains, in those days it meant you could hold hands after going out with a girl for what seemed like a month of Sundays.
Paul.
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just curious but how would you replace glass if it gets broken. i guess that it would be glued from inside the superstructure. it would be tricky to juggle it around and position it through the 'window frame'.
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Hi Hope, Because it covers such a small area ( most bridge windows are small) & if glued on properly I think it would be hard to break except deliberately. I think you are right it would be best installed from the inside, It would require careful handling of course. It is 1 pm Canada time as I write this & I just got some inspirition & I have just taken my Dremel tool with a diamond rotary disc, clamped a piece of slide glass between my bench top & a piece of ply & scored the glass with the Dremel disc. It broke right along the scored line. Sometimes I find I can think best late at night when all is quiet, just me & the dogs are awake. I don't have a very steady hand ( 66 years old ) but now I should make up a jig to do it more precise. I think a jig along the lines like they use for cutting tiles might work, it does not need to cut right through, just score it. I tried three separate cuts & two worked, if a little bit jagged because of my shaky hand. I know you can grind the edges smooth, I just have to find out how now. Watch this space, when I have it figured out I will post how I did it. Mick B.
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You must be telepathic.LOL
Paul.
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Not really Paul, I have just lived long enough to make more mistakes & try more stupid things than most other people , including two wife's & a long term partner. Some never learn & I lead the pack sometimes. Mick B.
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:-)) looking forward to hearing how you go. sounds like an interesting little project. good luck. craig
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another possible source would be microscope cover slips which go over the slides to hold things in position. they may be too thin though. i have some here that measure 18mm x 18mm x .2mm thick (.OO8"). wish i had thought of that idea at an earlier stage of my build. 1 square would cover 2 windows on mine. instead i didnt glaze them and there is about 50 to a packet so plenty of margin for errors.
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Hi Hopeitfloats, that sounds interesting , can you not still fit it to your build ?. Where do you get the glass & how much does it cost. Mick B.
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i got mine from a shop that sells scientific equipment, telescopes and microscopes and the like. dont know if they are still going in nz now though because they were in christchurch and there's not much left of the business district there after the earthquakes. they werent expensive. $6 or $7 i think from memory. (thats about £4) i cant really fit them to mine now. i would have to dismantle the superstructure and i definately dont wont to do that.