Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Full Scale Ships => Topic started by: Bryan Young on September 27, 2011, 07:08:53 pm
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Further to my initial post on the “Chit Chat” section, perhaps I can get on with the “preamble”. And believe me, this thing needs a preamble!
Smiths Docks would appear to have been run on not only philanthropic principles, but also on “quasi” religious grounds. Possibly Quaker? I’m probably wrong anyway.
But to continue. The (large) books more or less concentrate on the education of the workforce. There are many learned articles written by some notables of the age (1924 in this case) that describe early voyages throughout history. In fact, just about everything has a nautical feel to it. I suppose that nowadays this paternalistic attitude would be “frowned upon”, but in the days when a large and poor workforce had never gone further from North Shields to Whitley Bay (about 3 miles), tales of foreign lands and the perils of getting there must have been both exotic and intoxicating.
Not content with just looking after their workforce, all sorts of “uplifting” schemes were employed.
Alas, space on this forum precludes my posting of the entire book (or “books”, as it will be). So I shall content myself with only aspects (photos) of the shipping operations. Just about all the photos have extra written descriptions of why the ship needed repair and how the yards(s) coped with the jobs. The first tranche is all 1924 (ish). Remarkable quality. Built on the Tees.
As I mentioned in my first post on this subject (Chit Chat), this is in no way a money making thing. CDs with the entire contents of the books will be made available completely free of charge. Well, “free to me” at any rate. Following my usual practice I’d only ask that the required number of blank CDs plus plastic cases(to avoid damage) be sent to me in a stamped / addressed envelope. The discs will then be copied and returned ASAP. I really don’t know how to cope with respondents outside of the UK.
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Can't put all the details on here...you need the CD.
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I'd just like to remind you that all the photos shown so far come from pages only named as "Types Of Ships Produced By The South Bank Yard"....different sorts of photos will appear when this batch is done!
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Four more.....
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Looking at the photo of the "Pleasure Yacht" does make me wonder if she doubled as a cargo ship now and again!
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Last one of this series...notes about them next.
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I do hope you can read the printed words bit above the last photo.
The reference to the Great Exhibition at Wembley in 1924 is very apposite here. Their (Smiths) coverage of the event fills a CD all on its own. Fascinating.
As I've sort of mentioned before, the constraints of only allowing photos of up to a max of 161kb doesn't do the photos any justice whatsoever. Just about all the photos so far are reproduced at 3mb on the discs. And the written words are quite legible.
Printed out from disc the quality is remarkable for the age.
As I've also previously pointed out, not any of this is a money-making thing. You send me blank discs in a pre-stamped and addressed envelope and I'll just do the disc copying and post the things back to you.
I really only started this marathon task to make "insurance" copies of the books in case some disaster happened...so at least the contents would survive. But as I went on, the more I felt that all this info deserved a wider readership. Although I'm now a registered member of "Ships Nostalgia" I thought I'd show a bit of loyalty and put the "stuff" on here first! Cheers. BY.
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Dear all....
I've already had a couple of queries re the discs. However, the queries came via PMs. For "transactions" I really do prefer direct communication. My e-mail address is clearly stated under my "profile" button. Cuts out the "middle man"...? So, to those who've already replied, please re-submit your e-mail, which will of course tell me your e-mail address. Better all round that way.
In case anyone is a bit leery about this, all I can say is that the system has worked for a number of years now and I've had no complaints! Cheers. Bryan.
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Now we can get to the real start of the book. All the issues had a colour painting on the cover. But as you'll be aware, the posting are both a very small sample and very much "reduced".
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Now we move on to a touch of actual shipbuilding:-
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Moving on to the "Plating Shed" (Would a "shed" these days not be encumbered with a fancy name....even though it's still really a large shed). "Plating" is not just a name for the outer skin of a ship...more or less anything that's made from a bit os sheet steel is termed "plating".
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Ever fancied digging out your own dry-dock? On the original Smiths plans, the dry-docks were of very convoluted shapes...to fit the local landscape I expect. Also, I'd never really studied dock gates all that much. They opened and shut, and that was pretty much it as far as I was concerned. So I surmise that a "Flap Gate" was hinged at the bottom and just acted as a "flap".
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Only scratching the surface so far! But posting the written words is a no-no really. They have to be read in context. Although I hope that the minimal amount of photos so far posted have been of some interest.
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Very interesting Brian. What conditions those men must have worked under !!
Thanks for showing us. I hope there's more. :-))
ken
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Absolutely superb images Bryan.....full sized lofting...no computer generated images or plans.... %)...it makes one wonder if we could do it all again with todays technology coupled with current OH&S..........thanks for sharing :-))............Derek
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Kenny and Derek, there are shed loads more like those ones. In the words of somebody else..."You ain't seen nuthin' yet"....but to be truly honest (as always!), you really do have to put the script together with the pictures. Thanks for the comments. Bryan.
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It reminded me of the lofting shed for the Titanic. They had to deal with rather large sheets of metal and the bending machines were very large indeed.
As you show Smiths docks, I'm assuming they were not related but were the fore-runners of the technology. A lot of men needed to do the one job on a piece of metal. What ghastly working conditions.
cheers
ken
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Kenny, wasn't just the working conditions, after all they were on a par with every other industry of the age. Living conditions were if anything, worse. I've got photos of some streets in North Shields dating from the 1920s (and even 30s,40s and 50s) that would make your toes curl.
Just a quick thought re my last photos. I'd have thought that nming a ship s.s."Kneecap" was a very odd choice of name. Perhaps the company had other ships named after bits of the human body. Maybe even the Latin name for "Big Toe".
Cheers. Bryan.
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Something for the electricians among us.
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Back to the heavy engineering side of things (part 1).
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Apart from a couple of photos of boilers, with a bit of luck that's the end of "heavy engineering" for awhile...then I can get back to proper ships.
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It would appear that "oil pollution" was being tackled at least 90 years ago. And we still have the same problem.
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Time for some more "ships".....
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Hello
Very interresting subject, then as I've never been in this part of of UK I made a search on google earth to see the place actualy, I suppose it's here ! Nice to see dry docks still serviceable
(http://nsa28.casimages.com/img/2011/09/30/110930113323823381.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com)
There is a lot of ancient ship building yards in this area, still some traces with cut on the river banks
(http://nsa27.casimages.com/img/2011/09/30/110930113503137799.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com)
(http://nsa28.casimages.com/img/2011/09/30/110930113612418807.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com)
and specialy here
(http://nsa27.casimages.com/img/2011/09/30/11093011373395023.jpg) (http://www.casimages.com)
a very nice site here about shipbuilding on the river Tees ... I'm surprised with so many shipyard
http://www.teesbuiltships.co.uk/
Then a late 40's aerial view of Smiths Docks
http://www.teesbuiltships.co.uk/smiths/intro.htm
Xtian
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On the last Google earth picture, this is Furness ship yard (in fact even for a Frenchman this shipyard is well known !)
there is a picture during "great time" here
http://www.teesbuiltships.co.uk/furness/intro.htm
Xtian
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Great photo's Bryan,
of a time when we could still build something other than debt.
A pox on all the politicians that have let things come to this.
Regards
Richard
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Xtian.....if you go down the coast a few miles past Hartlepool you'll find another - altogether different site. A large ship-breakers. If there's anything left of her, the Clemenceau is being "dismantled there.
Regards. Bryan.
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Try these 2. Smiths Docks (North Shields) in 1930 and 2011. Housing, Supermarket and an Hotel will be plonked on the site soon.
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Builds and repair jobs durin WW1. No room here for details, but all in the book.
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I know I keep banging on about this, but the photos I've posted are really quite "fuzzy" at 160kb, pin sharp at 3mb as on the discs of the book. I'm NOT selling it....all free on reseipt of a couple of blank discs. They will also give you the stories behind the photos.
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The East coast being the nearest part of the UK to Denmark (Jutland), I guess that the NE ports were the easiest to get to. Other yards were probably just as busy.
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Probably to the great relief of you all, these are the last few photos I'm posting from this particular disc. Perhaps a few more from the 1924 Exhibition....but then I'll move on to 1926/1928.Hope you enjoyed the saga so far. BY.
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Bryan a very interesting snapshot of this period when the Tyne Tees and Wear were some of the busiest docks in the world
Really enjoyed seeing them - plenty more please.
Geoff
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These next few posts are primarily about the 1924 Exhibition.....except for the first 3 which is just one of Smiths adverts that are all on one page, hence the fuzziness. This second disc is just as interesting as the 1st one, and really shows how good the UK was at staging large events.
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The tugs in No3 must have been visible for miles!
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What better time to catch up with a backlog than a rainy afternoon.....
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And these 6 are the final ones from this volume. I'm only about half way through the next volume....about 4 days work.
So take a breather!. BY.
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I know I said it would be a few days before I got around to doing more....but the weather has taken a turn for the worse, so "indoors" calls.
Pic 3..An aptly named early "Flattie" collier with funnel folded down.
Pic 5..I love this one of an old "Bluey"!
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Heavy Lift ships. 2 of the "Bel" ships, forerunners of the WW2 ships built for the Ministry of Transport (the "Benledi" class). I never realised that at least some of the early ones were twin screw.
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I think Smiths went a bit awry with the last 3 photos. The first one looks more like a single screw ship, and the 2 of the rudder is of a twin. Not like them to be wrong!. BY
Delete all that.........my eye is playing up again.
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Hi Bryan,
Just a quick but very big thank you for taking the time to share these 'photos. Absolutely captivating and very much appreciated.
Roger
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Thanks for your comments Roger, much appreciated.
The next set is a bit of an odd-ball. Apart from showing a lot of constructional details (check out the frame spacing) including a pretty good example of how the hatch beams were fitted. I get the impression that she was being converted to a sort of shelter-deck vessel, giving her an extra cargo deck....this is also borne out by the removal of the original hatch coamings.
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Bryan,
A fantastic find you have there.
I wonder what became of all those models, do they still exist I wonder and, if they still do, are they locked away in some damp cellar or private collections?
Also interesting to see the picture of the Stentor and a bit of a coincidence as well, as I'm just about to order the drawings for her from the Dundee archives. That place is also a treasure trove of drawings and pictures as well.
I'll be in touch later if I may, about a copy of this archive.
Cheers,
LB
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Bryan please keep them coming - really enjoying this look into history. By the way what is an old bluey??
Geoff
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LB....Please answer the request from Pugwash! Poor chap only knows about war canoes. He knows more about horses and yachts than he does about the "Merch" side of things. I've tried to educate him, but alas, some seeds fall on stony ground.
As to your remark about the CDs...I've now got 3 of them done and available to anyone who wants a copy. However, PLEASE contact me via my direct e-mail address rather than a PM over the forum. Any replies I do that way (PMs) seldom seem to reach the recipient. Bryan.
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A little preamble to the next bit...if I may.
The next volume includes a good size article about Consett Iron Works. I imagine most steel/Iron users in the NE used Consett for supplies. I was born and bred within a sort of sight of the Iron works until we moved to the coast when I was 11 years old. If the wind was from the west we used to get covered in the red dust from Consett, and if it was from the East we got covered in the black dust from the surrounding coal mines. But my real memories relate back to 1945 when my sister was born in a maternity hospital just outside Consett...during an air-raid. The sound of the aircraft (both sides), the searchlights illuminating the many barrage balloons and all that stuff. But relating to all that...only came to mind while doing this thread....what was the point of the "blackout" when the nightly tipping of the molten "xxxxx" from the iron-works could probably be seen for hundreds of miles by an incoming aircraft. And Consett was only one of many. Probably the only one built on the top of a high plateau though. This "tipping" light was really quite awesome in retrospect. Didn't need street lights thats for sure, even where we lived about 6 miles away.
Anyway, end of that. Perusing the old photos of ships in dry-dock. I can't remember when I last saw ships in dock with any sort of side-props. Contrary to popular belief, they were not to stop the ship falling over. They were to stop the ship bulging outwards!
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But back to the picture story:-
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The last 4 of these pics are generic and don't really relate to any one ship. Just showing how things were done "then".
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Bryan,
can you remember the acrid smell from the molten "xxxxx" ?
In the sixties when I was a lad, one of my mate's dad's was a foreman of an iron work's.
After school when I called for him they would be emptying the furnace of the "xxxxx".
The furnace was less than 50 ft from his front door.
In the winter it was great place to play, as long as we stayed at the bottom of the ramp away from the charging doors.
A nice warm play area with piles of sizzling "xxxxx" at one end and his front door at the other.
I wonder what the health and safety brigade would make of that ?
Regards
Richard :-))
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Richard, no modern young twizzler could ever even imagine the kind of lifestyle (if there was such a word back then). But somehow we survived. I don't mean those of us that survived things like Diptheria, TB or Scarlet Fever (that killed some pals of mine at an absurdly young age).
All the so-called "privations" were just the normal way of things then. our playgrounds were the local rubbish dumps. Dumps that were internally combusting like the adjacent pit-heaps. Filling old bottles with water and then waiting for them to explode...simple stuff like that.
No, we weren't poor, simply because we didn't know that we were poor.
And basically, what a happy childhood I had. No money, but running free all day in the woods with my pals is also a memory worth cherishing. Bryan.
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Bryan,
I think that my post has fallen foul of the PC police. <*<
The common usage of the word for the waste product of a furnace cannot now be used. >>:-(
You are correct in what you say about our childhoods, even though mine was in the 50s and 60s.
Playing around heavy industry, and then there was the scrapyards with old engines and pre war cars.
The worst injury I sustained was a grazed knee, none of my mates ever hurt themselves because we used common sense.
The death's and serious injuries came when we were old enough to legally ride bikes
But that's another story. :((
Regards
Richard :-))
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Talking about sights and smells of childhood, along with your excellent pictures of when the Tyne was alive, stuck in my brain is the smell wafting up from the engine room on the Shields Ferries and the cocktail of mysterious odors coming from the shipyards appearing in your pictures %)
Thoroughly enjoying your collection Bryan, thank you
Mike
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The last 3 (of 8) here are of interest. Didn't realise that Smiths were gluing 2 ship halves together back in the early 1920s.
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There's an excellent artice about wahling in this issue.
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And these are the last ones of the 1st half of vol.2! Another couple of days wearing out the scanner beckon.
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So, here we go again. Just 4 for starters...but the next lot are interesting.
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This ship certainly keeps up the BI "family likeness"...a bit like a larger and more modern version of my "Baroda". The interest (to me) lies in the details. Things like a fan situated above the pillows of each bunk, the narrowness and ventilation in the alleyway. Even the water tanks hold some interest for a modeller.
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I can't work out what this is or what's going on, can anyone enlighten me please???
(http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=32923.0;attach=100608;image)
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Martin, it was a baby whale with 2 functioning heads and 2 blowholes. I would have printed out a fuller description of it, but the print would have been all but unreadable on the forum. I suggest you get the discs and read all about it! Bryan.
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Two "observations" here. The first being that this entire volume contains a long and rambling serialised story named "The Shipwreck Of St. Paul". Easy enough to gloss over when browsing the pages, but it was a pretty boring task to scan it. So it doesn't really detract from the rest of the volume. Right at the end of the years issues the authors were credited. Thet were "The Smith Twins"..and guess what. They were Directors of Smiths Docks. So no change there then. Right at the start of all this I did wonder if there was a religious aspect to the way the companys workers were "educated" and "looked after". Seems I was right.
Secondly, I've never heard of a "Star Contra Rudder". I note that at least part of the rudder extends forward of the rudder post but I can't tell if that bit operates seperately from the main body. Any engineers to educate me?
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Another thing about the rudder photos....does my eye decieve me or is that an early variable pitch prop? Bryan.
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Another "quickie" before more Heavy Lift ships.
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Ships and railway locomotives do not a happy combination make. Nor do Battle tanks come to think of it.
The first thing with locos is that they can't be just plonked down the hold or onto the deck. "Proper" railway tracks have to be fitted to the ship for the locos to sit on. Time consuming and a job all on its own. Also each loco has to be well secured before the next one is loaded. A lengthy task. This is because when a heavy thing like a loco is lifted off the quayside the ship can take an alarming list. This could easily resuly in an unsecured loco falling over on to its side. Embarrassing, to say the least. I did once see a loco break loose (a very large American steam job) than just rammed itself through a bulkhead...and that was in the sheltered waters of the St. Lawrence, so imagine what constant care was needed taking the things across the Atlantic. 24 hours a day a team would go around just tightening up the lashings.
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In the Smiths Journal the following pics are just an adjunct to photos depicting the various stages building the "new" Tyne Bridge.
Although Smiths Docks was much closer to the river mouth, Armstrongs yard was so far up the river that it was well upriver from the swing bridge. The river then was wide enough and deep enough for all major warships to be built "up there". Pretty much silted up now.
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Any idea who owned the "Stella Polaris"?
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Hello
http://www.cruiseshipodyssey.com/stelpolaris.htm
Xtian
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Conversion of a passenger liner into a whale factory ship.
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Whaling cont'd.
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Until I'm entrusted with further Smiths Journals this is the last entry. I hope you've enjoyed at least some of the photos. BY.
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Bryan
They are a record of a proud time for the North East Ship Builders
May they entrust you with many more journals to share with us
Ned
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Thanks Ned. Hope you enjoy the current postings as much. Regards. Bryan.
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Enjoyed them all Bryan,
no matter what we think of whaling today,
in the past it was a world wide industry that helped oil the industrial revolution.
Before gas and electricity whale oil provided the light for the early factories until kerosene was developed in 1846.
Regards
Richard :-))
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Hello
http://www.cruiseshipodyssey.com/stelpolaris.htm
Xtian
Sorry Xtian. I somehow missed your post. Nice to know what became of her. Thank you. Bryan.
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great pictures bryan thank you very much
be careful with that eye of yours
romanjohn
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great pictures bryan thank you very much
be careful with that eye of yours
romanjohn
Thanks for that. But I'm afraid that medical science hasn't found a cure yet, so it would seem that a slow degeneration is the best I can hope for. BY.
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mmmmmmmm digressing just a little in the dockyard life {-)
Most members would not have experienced spending a night shift >>:-( 1800>0600 on the floor of a graving dock
Many many years ago {-) one of my fellow Garden Island Naval Dockyard "below water weapons" foreman was needed to spend the all night dark hours looking after an FFG sonar dome repair
Needless to say {:-{ he was ill & I copped the shift >:-o & @ 0200 not a sound........ but then......
scamper....scamper ....scamper......the dockyard RATS came out.......they were as big as cats .... not nice %) ......
I am sure even the Smiths dockyards of earlier years had the same sized dockyard rats O0................Derek
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Dockyard rats, as big as cats? Sounds like an old Boy Scouts song! I too have done the "Graveyard Shift" during a refit...although from a different perspective. (Any correlation between "Graving Dock" and "Graveyard Shift"?). Never saw any rats apart from the skivers sleeping off the evenings Brown Ale. The real rats probably found richer pickings elsewhere. BY.
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Hello
Australia still strange for animals with Kangaroo, koala, crocodile ... sheeps, rabbits and big rats in dockyard. I've never seen rat in the dockyard here in France as in fact there is nothing to eat for them !
I remenber a port of call close to sugar factory in some tropical countries (Indian ocean) . At night when coming back to the ship the floor was crispie and then in the morning it was like a line of birds from the harbour entrance up to the ship entrance. In fact the whole crew coming aboard at night has crushed giant cockroaches on this road and the morning was like a feast for the birds. I've also seen giants rats in Djibouti harbour as it was a stock of food waiting for famine help in Ethiopia. It was a shame as the ethiopian autorities don't care about that food and don't want to pay for transport as the government was southern ethnic and the famine was with the northern ehnics and it was war between them. So the food rotted in the port and the rats became gigantic, pigeons too, and cats who hunted rats were impressive :o
Xtian
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Xtian...I guess we're both a little off-topic here. but who cares. I agree with you about giant cockroaches. Biggest I ever saw were all over the place in Port Sudan. But the biggest rats I ever saw (and totally unfazed by us mere humans) were the ones living in the flour warehouse in Grytviken. Regards, Bryan.
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Coming full circle, I'm sure you must have come across some pretty hefty dock rats in the Jungle just outside Smiths Docks, Bryan ? O0 %)
Mike
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Coming full circle, I'm sure you must have come across some pretty hefty dock rats in the Jungle just outside Smiths Docks, Bryan ? O0 %)
Mike
Mike, I really do hope you aren't alluding to may alleged parentage. Amazing such an apparently untrustworthy couple could have produced such a fine, upstanding citizen as myself. Bryan.
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Who, moi ?? %)
Merde %%
Mike
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There may well be a double posting here as the nit-picking site server is making life difficult again. So I'm sorry if that happens.
I'd like to try a little experiment and add some of the shorter job descriptions instead of just posting photos. If it's acceptable (or not) please let me know.
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An aerial view of the yard.The ship alongside that's closest to the camera is on a side lifting pontoon.
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Still experimenting!
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Yes, I know this is supposed to be about Smiths, but I want to free up a bit of congestion and I don't really want a semi dedundant folio hanging around. So I'll continue with Swans for awhile.
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Fascinating pictures Bryan,
nice to have some text to help put them into context.
Look forward to more posts.
Regards
Richard :-))
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Great to see you back in history mode - so very interesting photos and a vey enjoyable post
Geoff
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Well, that's 2 positives! Now wait for the negatives.
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What a nice way to fill in a freezing cold afternoon.
Don't let the photo of "Nacella" fool you. What at first glance look like RAS booms aren't. We didn't have cuch things then. I'm pretty sure the booms were used to hang anti-torpedo nets from. At the same time, she looks like her design could have been used to build the "Wave" class RFAs.
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Oops! Hit the wrong button again. Sorry.
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This time it's just a pity that the resizing has made the 2nd pic (general view of the river) lose some of the originals detail.
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The last 4 of "Swans" (for awhile). Go back to Smiths next.
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"Repairs" to "British Chemist". More like a rebuild...personally I'm surprised they bothered. Probably could have built a new ship for the cost of this work.
I hope you can read the preamble.
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The 2nd half.
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The next 6 pics are mainly of "Aquitania". She didn't have much to do with the Tyne, but she was used in adverts in the journal extolling the benefits of protective coatings made by a Tyne based firm. I found them interesting anyway!
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This selection shows the new machinery and working conditions after a major modernisation of the N.Shields yard in the late 1920s.
I can't help but wonder who made a lot of this heavy engineering stuff...or did Smiths make some of their own "tooling"?
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Final selection for awhile:-
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I have just found this and what an amazing collection of pictures - as Smith's Dock apprentice in the 60's they bring back a lot of memories.
Graham
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Well now. Just goes to show what you can come up with on this site!
Are you still a "local" on Tyneside?
We, in Tynemouth Model Boat Club, have a few members who were employed at Smiths back in the 1700s...or so it seems.
The photos you've seen are only a small part of the history of this famous dockyard. I've had access to a few (read "many") issues of the ancient "Smiths Docks Journals" of the 1920s.....and have put them all on CDs. Mainly because I would hate to see them "lost" forever. I offer copies of the CDs free to anyone interested. I only ask for a replacement CD (plus case) and a stamped self addressed envelope and it's yours. Runs to 4 Cds at the moment. Thanks for the interest. BY.
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Thank you for showing these ,,as you say ,,memories , fasinating and very true .
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Well now. Just goes to show what you can come up with on this site!
Are you still a "local" on Tyneside?
Hi Bryan - I am a native of Teesside and was an 'appy on the Tees and I will scan and post here my indenture papers for fun when I get home towards the end of June. I work oversea's at the moment an am at home at infrequent intervals.
One of my memories as an apprentice was earning a few extra bob by doing night shift standbay on the ship to shore radio when ships went out on trials. As the radio was in the main office we got to prowl about a bit and look at the fantasic shipbuilders models. Another was of the rig the Ocen Prince breaking her moorings and heading off down river. Or the MV Patrica the Trinity House vessel built many years before by Smith's coming in for some work and being amazed at the polished copper, brass and scrubbed teak.
An area of interest in Smith's history is the corvets as my Dad served on one (not actually built by Smith's).
Regards
Graham
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Oh, Greyone.....any "teenager" during what I presume is "our period" would be enthralled by the wealth and variety of ships we could simply prowl around. No "Elf'n'Safety" in those days. Not much need for "Security" either....the gates were there to keep people "in" rather than visitors out.....open the gates and a mad dash to the local pub was the order of the day.
But my abiding memory of all those old ships would have to be the smell of them. You could actually tell what sort of trade they were in and what sort of cargoes they carried simply by "sniffing" the air within them. Hence my lifelong aversion to tankers!. BY.
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That idea takes me back to an old school friend who lived over a pub
Corner of Porter St and Regent Rd (the pub name just escapes me)
The smell of Molasses and Grain was so pungent it had a definite taste.
I don't think I could forget that if I live to be a hundred.
Dave