Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Submarines => Topic started by: Leaky on March 17, 2007, 07:55:45 am
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Hi all im in the process of building a type 21 and before i get in too far i could do with some advice on fitting a static dive system ive been advised (on this forum)to use engel tanks,ive priced up the worst i.e. most expensive set and i can stand the cost so what mods do i need to do and any pics available as a guide any and i mean any help gratefully recieved.Thanks in advance :) :)
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I have recently built a Norbert Bruggen UB-1 and this uses a modified (shortened) Engel tank with one of his own control boards. I must say that although the model has yet to be tank tested the arrangement works very well on the bench and the electronics were not difficult to complete even for me.
This is the link to Norbert Bruggen's website: http://modelluboot.de/
Have a look at the section marked 'Ballasttank-steuerung'. It shows the wiring diagram etc. There is a pdf file download too. The site is mainly in German but can be translated into pigeon English using Easy Translator or the translator on Google. Fortunately if you have to phone Norbert he speaks very good English - despite claiming he doesn't - and is extremely helpful. Incidentally he told me that he believes Engel make the very best tanks of this type and to quote him 'why try to re-invent the wheel?'
Andrew
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hello Leaky....I am building one with a single 825ml tank and the Ballast Tank Switch ( BTS) from Engle. 6V system you have to cut away part of the central former plate where the batteries fit and then reinforce the plate on either side and below in the central H section, I cut some 1/2 circular formers from thick plastic card and glued them on the bottom of the central plate below the engle tank. You will also have to " double Bellow" your pushrods ie inside the pressure hull as well as outside...this stops the pressure build up leaking out when the ballast tank is filled ( the air inside the tank goes into the pressure hull when the piston moves back ) There is absolutely loads of room in the hull for everthing you need to make it a static diver. Don't bother with the two 6v cyclone batteries they recommend just buy some 9 ah nimh cells and make a pack up, you can fit them on the end of the central plate from the bulkhead forwards, you will also have to fit the tank at a slight angle to allow the central screw rod to pass under the plate and drill some holes in the front bulkheads to allow it to pass through them... Good luck. have some pics of the build if you need them.
But you have loads of room....
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Hello sub driver and thanks to all for the replies could you supply some pics please ive been on the engel sit and pandan to price up the tank ive got the WTC built but i can easily mod it at work (lots of nice gear in my workshop) if its more than a bit of fretsawing so again thanks for any info and help
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Something like this one...
Roy
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Hello leaky. A couple of things I've done to make the model more durable, one is to silver solder the central screw joiner, I know it doesn't tell you to in the blurb...but a lot of money is hanging in the balance on this one part, I always over engineer such items..if that comes loose/ breaks off you will be in real doo- doo.
I have also replaced and made longer the three aluminium push rod tubes..in the rear end cap...in my book / experience they are too prone to corrosion and soft, not good engineering, not for me anyway. Will try some pics, but have failed miserably so far, even when they are reduced to small..ttfn
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Large Photos on the Forum?
No Problem! . . . http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2277.0 (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2277.0)
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photobucket? what was they drinking at msn when they came up with that anyway ive signed up thanks for the tip martin much appreciated
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I am considering buying this kit from a person who has one for sale & would appreciate if anyone can give me their opinions of the pros & cons of Robbe's XXI kit. At 1/40 scale, I've heard the biggest issue for many is the overall size of the beast! If I do go through with this, I would want to follow through & build it as a static diver so I'll be following you gents here with renewed interest.
Thanks.
Chuck
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:) Hello I have just finished a Robbe type XX1.....My model is highly modified from the kit, The basic kit is good quality and quite a fast build in submarine terms. The tower is well basic the overall sides and profile is very good but let down by the scopes , radar, schnorkel etc. All these are easily dealt with if you want a more accurate model but it does include a lot of work on the tower top. Again the twin flak turrets are basic but can be brought up to date.
The pressure hull is very easy to work on and convert to a static diver there is acres of space inside even with the static dive tank and all the associated electronics.
In my view a good model from Robbe that can be brought to life with a bit of forethought and modification.
The size of the model is an issue for some people but its not that big really, it will shrink in any lake and you need a submarine with prescience to keep the numpty element from not seeing the damn thing. >:( ;D
All in all I like it but I'm a sub nut so who knows !. If you like it thats all that matters in my book. ;D ;D
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Thanks for the reply Subdriver.
Another complaint I've been told, aside from size, is the lack of detail on the abs hull & tower. Its very plain & I've been told as smooth as a young girl's skin! Would that be the case as I've not seen many close up photos of the actual model?
Chuck
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It's not feasible to put fine detail into a vac-formed moulding, in the same way as an injection moulding or a GRP hull. Fine detailing is left to the modeller, although Robbe seemed to have learned a few lessons from the U47, they milled the deck and hull drainage slots out rather than vacforming them.
Andy
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There is a brass replacement deck and somemore details from a firm in the states called modelbrass i cant print the exact address as ive only got the link on my desk top at work (guess what i do at breaktimes then)from the photos its a nice piece he also does one for U47 along with a range of 1/72 detail sets.Hope this helps Sub Driver any chance of some pics of the internals of your boat please? ;)
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http://www.modelbrass.com
Very nice items, although there do seem to be one or two people reporting supply issues at the moment.
Also Dream Arts and Accurate Armour do some nice items suitable for upgrading Robbe boats (chiefly, the U47).
http://www.dream-arts.de/
http://www.accurate-armour.com/
Andy
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I think the supply problems are down to the fact its a 'cottage industry' however ive talked to someone who has bought some bits off of them and they are quite pleasent to deal with ive been told the man at modelbrass is called jason overhulser hope the spelling is ok
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used model brass before. no problem. and yes he is a Jason
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Thanks for the info gents. Yes, I purchased Jason's Revell Type VIIc set before & confirm he has nice product.
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Subdriver,
Can I be another of those guys who begs photo's off of you please.
Just acquired a Robbe XXI and keen to convert to static dive. Your pics would be greatly appreciated
Cheers
Jumper
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Jumper / Leaky
Here are some pics of the modified cradle.
I have also included some pics of the finished model for your perusal shows you what can be achieved with some effort and patience.
The pics should be self explanatory...use a good glue like stabilit express for the steel reinforcement not cheep but excellent, and the size of the Sq rod is so that it is a good fit into the " H " section brace on the bottom of the cradle, use a good grease for the prop shafts, I used Robbe prop shaft grease not cheep but good stuff, I also double bellowed the rear hydroplane and rudder and on / off linkages ( one inside and Out ).
You will note that the tank is at a slight angle this is to allow the piston rod to pass under the central plate when submerging, you will also have to drill two holes into the front bulkheads to allow the rod to pass, I used an engle 825 ml tank and one of his Ballast Tank Switch control boards.
I Use NIMH batteries, a 6v 9ahr pack will sit on the front plate, infront of the rest of the electrics. ( above where the central screw fits into )
Hope its of use.
Regards Sub.
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many thanks Mon Brave.
They will help enormously.
Jumper
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Could you tell me the type of tank that is? that way i can get one from engel i cant read the label on it it goes all pixellated before i can focus on it :-))
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Hi Leaky.
Sure its an EA 825 6 Volt
Regards Sub.
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Cheers i will get saving up then! :-)
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you will also need the bts ballat tank switch to control the tank it includes a failsafe and a water ingress detector and plugs into your receiver. .
regards sub.
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Morning Sub driver and Leaky,
I have started to dry fit the basic framework, which is going along quite nicely. I do have one query tho concerning the Motor mount assembly area.
I have assemble it ala the pictures and the instructions and find I have about a 1/4" gap between the end of the plate, part 1.10 and the bulkhead, part 1.6. The lugs are flush with both bulkheads.
Also, the plate partially obscures the hole beneath it on both bulkheads 1.6 and 1.7.
Is this right?
Camera run out of battery else I would post some pics
Regards
Jumper
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Post a few pics when you get a blattery and I will compare them.
Regards.
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From looking at your photos is there any reason why the tank is canted up at an angle? {:-{
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If you read through the thread, this is explained by Sub driver.
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ooops sorry :-) that will teach me!
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Leaky
No probs, :-)
Just be aware that you cannot go any higher than the last large bulkhead or you won't be able to slide the frame into the pressure tube as the end of the tank will catch.. :o :o
Regards.
Sub.
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Hi Sub,
Apologies for wasting your time matey, I found a picture a bit further on in the manual, the gap between the motor plate and bulkhead is quite apparent. Onwards and upwards.
Yours aye
Jumper
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Anyone got any pics or details of any markings on these type XXI subs? Can't find much info out there or is it me?? Dave... {:-{
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what type of markings do you mean ?
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I bought a completed U2540 off my friend. Great build but she's got no markings on her, numbers, signage, symbols, anything. Just wondering if any were applied to the Type XXI? Not just U2540 but any in her class. Was thinking of a flag for when she's running on the surface, what size? Would assume it would be the one below from BECC? Any help appreciated, Dave. :-))
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Have a look at www.uboat.net it is a very comprehensive website on uboats, you should find what you need there or at least authorative contacts that could help.
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Subsequent to my last post, I just remembered that there is an excellent book on Type XXI submarines in the 'Anatomy of Ships' series published by Conway. I own that book and one on the Type VII.
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Many thanks for the info. Given me a few good pointers, cheers, Dave. :-))