Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Navy - Military - Battleships: => Topic started by: John W E on March 29, 2007, 10:39:48 am
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Hi all, just a couple of pics of my new build.
I am building this model from the late Norman Ough plans which he drew in December 1952.
For the newcomers on the scene this late gentleman was the forerunner to Jacobin Plans - he drew a lot of his plans from photographs and are well sought after.
David MacGregor plans have the rights to all of his drawings but, the MacGregor plans are all now held by SS Great Britain Trading Limited.
Anyway, to get to my build:
After I have finished planking the hull, I intend to put shell plating on the hull and I also am intending to use the method once mentioned somewhere on this Forum by Shipmates60. So Shipmates60 would you post how you actually did it, and what card you used, and what hull did you plate on top of - was it a wooden hull or a fibre glass hull - or anyone else with any ideas for shell plating. I know this topic has definitely been on the forum before - but I am struggling to find it.
Aye
John E
BLUEBIRD
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John,
I'm having a go a plating on my "Torpedo Boat No 80" build. No pictures yet of the completed hull, but there are some of my "experiments" and a few notes of things that went wrong/changed along the way. It's not looking too bad at the moment, but I can't claim to be an expert as it's my first attempt. However, I'm more than willing to share any problems or ideas.
Once I have resolved the problems of the steering mechanism, I hope to put up more pictures of the completed hull.
Rick
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Hi John,
I'd like to know how to apply shell plating as I have a couple of boats whch require it when I get around to building them.
I have contacted SS Great Britain Trading Ltd by 'phone as they don't seem to answer e-mails. The David MacGregor plans are in storage, Planning permission was granted in February for a new museum building alongside the dry dock. Until that is built any enquiries are put on a database until they can gain accsess to them, when I asked how long this would be they said unlikley this year and the database is very long. Has anyone else on here approached them and got the same answer? I am after a copy of HMS Lion (1910) plans I have a quote from NMM and a list of plans they have, as usual its a big total at the bottom of the page.
Daryl
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Hi John, your model is looking very nice I can't wait to see some more pics it will be a great model when it is finished. Do you think the same as me that the planking seems to go on for ever?
Hannah.
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Nice job John,a man of many talents obviously.
Have you got your wood yet?
By the way, should this not be in the "Our Builds" section ?
Perhaps, seeing as you are turning out so many models now you would like a section of your own? ???
Richard ;)
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Daryl, I have the N/Ough plans for Lion at 1/192 , if you want a copy of this 2 sheet plan contact me on [email protected]
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Hi one and all
Yes hiapita yes the planking goes on forever and ever - but well worth it when you are finished :D
Dicky my friend you have let me down - I was expecting to see your pics of the HMS Daring 1930 because Ive scoured the web and only come up with 2 or even 3 and you are one of these people (a bit like our Riggers) who can search the web and come up with totally different and unseen pics of vessels. I am sure there are others of us who are the same, cannot find a thing on the web. So one day you will have to give us all a tutorial how you search the web for different pics etc.
RickF yes I would love to see pics of your build of the torpedo boat and have a look at how you are intending to plate the hull. What materials are you thinking of using for your plating? Ive used plasticard before to plate a hull and I wasnt all that happy with it - that is why I am hoping some people on this forum will come forward with suggestions and methods - because I would like to try another way of plating. I know RonH used to use lithoplate, but he has left the forum UNLESS WE CAN PURSUADE HIM TO COME BACK.
Shipmates60 -are you still at home?
aye
john e
bluebird
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May I ask a daft question but where do you get lithoplate from and exactly what is it?
Daryl
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May I ask a daft question but where do you get lithoplate from and exactly what is it?
Daryl
Hi Daryl,
I just googled for lithoplate and found this comment on a college based website "lithoplate10.3
lithoplate is available from any printers, and can usually be obtained free if you ask nicely. "
Hope that helps
Clive :)
PS Wish I could plank as beautifully as that John, I always seem to have gaps. :)
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I understand lithoplate is becoming rarer as printers move over to electronic imaging however, no harm in asking around. When it is used its only used once and disposed of.
HTH
Doug
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Hi ya there all,
Kendalboatman when I plank - depending on the model, I normally plank from the gunnel up towards the keel for the first five planks and then plank from the keel back over towards the gunnel. Then again, depending on the shape of hull, this I find keeps the planks parallel to the gunnel and keeps them in a neat tight line. If this doesn't make sense to you, I can try and draw a little sketch to show you what I mean.
Not a daft question at all Daryl, Ive never worked with Lithoplate myself, and it is one of my options. Ive got a piece of Lithoplate from a friend to experiment with and its shiny on one side, and grey on the other side with perforated holes top and bottom and a little bit bigger than A4 sheet. It seems to crease really easily so any mistakes made with it would be difficult to rectify. Say for arguments sake you creased the corner of a plate that you were putting on your model, it looks as if it would be difficult to remove the crease.
Aye
john e
bluebird
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Hi John,
Thanks for the info I wondered what it was.
I just did a quick google search and come up with this one from Uboat.net
http://uboat.net/allies/warships/class.html?ID=12
or you could try these links
www.candoo.com/ncot/norriepage/daring.jpg
www.wrightandlogan.co.uk
www.navyphotos.co.uk
www.maritimequest,com
Hope they help
Daryl
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Hi all, two more shots. Finished planking and busy sanding and filling the planks with P38 car body filler and also first coat of resin is on her. House is smelling of resin and getting an ear-bashing off the Mrs ;D One of the side effects of modelling I suppose. ;D ;D
aye
John E
BLUEBIRD
Mrs just saw photographs and we definitely need a new sink and tap ;D
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Looks nice, keep posting, Have you had a look on
www.navweaps.com
lots of information about armourment.
Thanks everyone for the information about lithoplate, I'll have a word with the printers just down the road from where I work.
Daryl
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John,
On my 1/72 Battle class I used normal copier paper.
I fully prepared the hull first, but that was only because I didn't think of plating till she was done and wanted to plate the hull.
I didn't have the shell expansion drawing, so cut up lots of rectangles the same size.
I painted WATERPROOF PVA glue on one side and let soak in.
I placed the first row on the hull, overlapping slightly and let dry overnight.
I then laid the rest of the hull, overlapping and trimming as I got to the hull curves.
I let the plates dry and then finished off around the bilge keels and keel.
When it was completely dry, I painted the whole hull with PVA and let dry.
I then painted the hull with an oil based primer/undercoat.
4 coats. Rubbed down where necessary using fine wet and dry.
Let hull dry again and painted as normal.
Hope this is what you are looking for John.
It worked for me and did look real!!
Bob
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hi ya there bob, that is exactly what I want - excellent - thanks - gonna give this a try. see how we get along.#
daryl thanks for the links
aye
john e#
bluebird
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John,
She is looking superb, but a ship without a funnel, didnt think it was your style :)
Bob
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It seems to crease really easily so any mistakes made with it would be difficult to rectify. Say for arguments sake you creased the corner of a plate that you were putting on your model, it looks as if it would be difficult to remove the crease.
I have worked with this for years, what you do if you crease it is , with a block of wood you put the litho on a flat metal surface and rub the block over the litho and out should come the crease. ::) ::)
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I have refurbished model boats which have been plated with lithoplate.
On these the plates were comming of, this trapped water between the hull and plating making this situation worse.
I personally am a bit wary of plating any metal over a wooden hull with the huge difference in coefficients of expansion between the 2 substances.
You would need to use a flexible glue to allow for this.
Bob
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Never had any problems, I use contact adhesive, but I have never put it directly on timber,
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hi there everyone
shipmate60, you have hit one of my fears right on the head - about the two different expansions rates of the material -
captain anonymous says he hasnt experienced this, could you shed some light on by explaining how you actually cut the material lithoplate and applied it & to what type of hull you applied it and what preparation he uses.
aye
john e
bluebird
ps got wrong off the Mrs again today - for stinking oot the hoose with resin aye I did that ;D ;D ;D
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hi john using lithoplate is quite easy when u get used to it, i built a battleship with the stuff, you should know, you sailed it round the lake a year ago, the whole superstructure was built with it, (see pic) ive got over 100 sheets of it at a4 size and a few at a3 size, if you require any just ask, its yours, and show you how i glued it using two methods,,, and its also fantastic for deck plating with rivets in to,just let me know,,, bcos i need your input with a cruiseliner hull, ;) ;) ;) ;)
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hi john using lithoplate is quite easy when u get used to it, i built a battleship with the stuff, you should know, you sailed it round the lake a year ago, the whole superstructure was built with it, (see pic) ive got over 100 sheets of it at a4 size and a few at a3 size, if you require any just ask, its yours, and show you how i glued it using two methods,,, and its also fantastic for deck plating with rivets in to,just let me know,,, bcos i need your input with a cruiseliner hull, ;) ;) ;) ;)
Come on brian_c you cant just show us a photo of part of the ship, wheres the photos of the rest of it?
Richard ;)
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other pics using lithoplate, just for u richard, ;)
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oops sent that twice, ??? turrets all with lithoplate,
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hi john sos 4 puttin me pics on yr topic,,, ;D ;D ;) richard told me to ;)
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Dont worry about my buddy John and hijacking his thread as you know he aint a bad bloke.
Beautiful model Brian wished I could do something like that. Come to think of it ,it wouldn't fit in me shed. ???
Richard ;)
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Looks like a very nice build Brian C .
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mornin richard, yer rite john is a goodun, ive known him for years, and makes a crackin model,, ask him to show hms manchester on the forum its a corker,,, oops sos john, yr gonna have 2 now, ;D ;D ;D ;) nelsons 7ft 5inches, me next ones 8ft 6, and hope it goes in the bloody car ???
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OK John lets see your HMS Manchester then.
Richard ;)
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Hi all, before we get too far off the topic (and Im not letting you away with this one Brian C ;)) yes, here is a picture of my 'old' HMS Manchester, which, I sold to Brian's namesake cousin ;D (BIG BOYZ TOYZ guy) Dicky I dont think you ever met this gentleman (and I can hear the rest of the forum shreaking with horror - 'oh my word') we wont go into that subject
Anyway, here she is - Ive got the plans still and awful lot of information about her - and definitely she is going to be rebuilt. She would have been built instead of this one I am making now, its just Ive never made a 2nd World War destroyer before. So, with that bit over with, to get back onthe track - righto BrianC, getting back to lithoplate - yes, you did explain to me how you used it for the superstructure but YOU NEVER EXPLAINED TO THE FORUM my man! ;D so howay lad get ya one finger on the keyboard, get typing and let us all know how you constructed your superstructure and guns with the lithoplate.
The reason I am wary of using lithoplate on the hull is it will spend all its sailing life submerged in water and Im a bit wary of it - I know other people have used it on hulls - Captain Anonymous has used it for years, but what worries me Ive got a wooden hull sheathed in fibre glass and if I cover it in lithoplate they will all have a different expansion rate. It wont be a great expansion rate, but it may be sufficient to break a seal and we all know what happens when a vessel sinks at the landing site and bits and pieces start falling off.
Aye
John E
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hi there all,
back to the build - I am going Shipmate60's way of using copier paper for the thin plates and white card for the thick plates - I left the model still attached to the build board as when I set the frames up I had marked on the frames, the waterline and I know that the waterline is exactly 4 inches from the base of the build board. I could therefore transfer a line all the way round the hull and also apply a centre line down the centre of the hull giving me two datum lines - I dont have a shellplating drawing. The only drawing I have of shell-plating is the front and stern view, which is shown in one of the photographs. I am now transferring the spacings of the shell platings onto each frame, on the outside of the hull corresponding with the drawing. This should give me the plate widths. I am working on the assumption that plate lengths are between 8 foot and 10 foot long and between 4 foot and 6 foot high. This has been scaled to the 1:72 scale.
What I intend to do now is vary the plate lengths slightly. The only problem I have at the moment is keeping my sticking mucky fingers off the plates and leaving finger prints on them.
As for adhesive, I am using Evostik Exterior PVA glue. When you think about it, the worst that can go wrong is when I put the model in the lake, I end up towing a cardboard box about - battle damage when all the plates float off!!!!
aye
John E
bluebird
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here is a picture of my 'old' HMS Manchester, which, I sold to Brian's namesake cousin ;D (BIG BOYZ TOYZ guy) Dicky I dont think you ever met this gentleman (and I can hear the rest of the forum shreaking with horror - 'oh my word') we wont go into that subject
Aye
John E
History my old mate History ;)
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John,
Regarding leaving sticky fingerprints on the plates, I found that giving them a quick spray with primer (I use Halfords red) on the outer surface meant that I could wipe them off with a damp cloth without damaging the paper. Also made them easier to move and press down.
Rick
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using lithoplate its not to difficult, when doing nelsons funnel i made it first of all using 32nd marine ply, then cut the lithoplate to wrap around the funnelin three sections top middle and bottom, checked for size and marked the back ready to use the cog wheel for simulating the rivets,pressing evenly against the straight edge forming near perfect rows of rivets where you penciled earlier,, then applied the impact glue to both the funnel and the three pieces (or use a strong bonding double sided tape) place the center piece on first then apply the top and bottom and trim the excess off, and rivets should be all in line, it works for me and gives the funnel a realistic look with inner and outer plates and rivets, (just like the real jobby) try not to over spray or paint the lithoplate to much, you will loose all the hard work and sharp finished pieces,,,, :o my way of building the superstructure on nelson, build a sturdy but light mock up again, using the same outer inner outer method but pencil where to score the back for the angles and rivets, and use the same method as before and cut your portholes and windows the same way you would do with plasticard, i did the same with the turrets building up in layers and large pinhead rivets to simulate the real ship,,, ive found using these methods works well and gives a clean crisp finsh to any model, and gives it a more profesional look, and pleasing to the eye,, thats what we all try to achive, lithoplates nice to work with and the end result will suprise you if uve not used it before, im looking forward to johns end results on this thread, hope you can all understand my tinpot way trying to explain this process, good luck john ;) ;) ;) ;)
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John E, Your friend collin above has discribed litho very well, I use 1/64th plywood as a backing when building superstructure, and use contact adhesive to fix the litho to the wood. There is very little movement in the two types of matierials, I find more movement in plastic, as for hull plating you will not find a better matierial, you can shape it to most shapes it will bend in two directions with a little gental persuasion.
Cutting, on small pieces I use a pair of sharp sissors on bigger pieces I use a straight edge and a sharp Stanley Knife, use very light strokes , dont try to cut though in one go, 3-4 light strokes, this saves your blades and your fingers.
Making things round, bend it over a piece of round plastic or copper pipe.
Deck plating, turn the litho over and lightly score on the back the size and shape you need, I use a small dulled down old screwdriver for this job.
If you want to make small objects like ammo lockers, I cut them out of a small piece of timber, just under size, if I need 6 , I cut them all and stick them to the back side of the litho with super glue, leave to set, then with a pair of sissors I trim round the timber, when done , glue all six on the next side, carry on till all the sides are covered, I normally sand each edge before glueing on the next piece of litho, only takes a few seconds, to finish you put on small feet and small hinges.
I hope this helps you to understand Litho plate.
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Hi there!
One further note regarding lithoplate: there are different thicknesses (gauges) used by the printing industry. The small 'quickprint' shops found on the high street tend to use a lighter gauge, which, being thinner, is easier to cut and bend and takes to curves a lot easier. The larger printers tend to use the thicker stuff, which is great for superstructures and the likes.
I once worked at a printing company and managed to accumulate a large supply of used lithoplate, along with offcuts of 1mm ABS plastic sheet - they were also silkscreen printers and used it for signage.
Cheers,
Glyn
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Hi all, Rickf thanks for the great tip for spraying the paper to prevent finger prints, but, Ive encountered a problem. The thinner sheets of paper, which are representative of the inner shell plating, have began to shrink - leaving small gaps.
Im going to try cutting the plates slightly oversize to see if this cures the problem.
Ive only done 4 rows of the plating so far from stem to stern and there are already over 190 plates! NOT COUNTING ANY MORE
Aye
John E
BLUEBIRD
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John,
Didn't have any problem with shrinking, but I used 150g paper (1:48 scale) and full length strips scored to represent plates.
Rick
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hi all still at the plating stage. Couple of shots here to let you know how I am getting on. at close scrutiny you will see the white keel plates - that is where I started before I read RickFs tip about painting them. You will also see the small gaps starting to appear on the inner plates. I noticed on RickFs photographs that he has overlapped his plates - after I have finished this next run of plates this is the procedure I am going to adopt for the rest of the plating to see if this cures the problem with the shrinkage.
You also will see my method of getting the correct taper run of the plates bow and stern. I know the middle third of the ship, the plates are near enough parallel so I have been marking the height of the plates off at the bow taking the measurement from the waterline down to the plate line for each row of plates. The stretching masking tape from the centre applied plates to the bow, giving them the correct taper, the same procedure is done at the stern.
Few more pics to follow when I get a bit more done.
aye
john e
bluebird
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John,
The plates overlap in real life - some are "inners", some are "outers" and some are "in" at the top and "out" at the bottom (or vice versa). It gets pretty complicated if you are following a real shell expansion drawing.
I also found that using pva and thin card meant that they took on a "joggle" where they overlapped, so I ended up plating the whole hull with "inners", then gluing the "outers" in the appropriate places.
Rick
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hi john i know what you mean about the plating, it took nearly 500 plates on this one and pulled nearly 100 off :'( and do it again because i wasnt happy with it,,, but its done now and ready for fibre glassing now ;) ;) ;)
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hi ya all - RickF and BC - I can see where Ive gone wrong in my plating now. Where your inner platings are double the width of the plate so you stick the outer plate on the top. What I was doing was cutting individual plates i.e. one thick and one thin of the same width and length. Aye trials and tribulations well man that is what this modelling lark is arl aboot. Aye
john e
bluebird
ps If I ever get the blighter finished, I will post some pics. ;D
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That's an interesting ship Brian - what is it? I can't make out the name.
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you got that time john,,, the inner plating is double the width of the outer,,, hope that pic helps you,,, and hi collin its a 96th scale mauretania 1906 jobby and its nearly 9ft long. :o yes thats right 9ft.
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if you did it your way john the outer plating will sink down and you will end up with ribbed lines only. ;)
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john, check this pic out and you can see on the bows how wide i made the inner plating,, sometimes three inner plates in one go and it sure did speed the prosess up, ;)
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hi all, finished plating and Ive given the hull 2 coats of plasticoat spray today
Ive left the top plates long so I can trim them to the deck level when I come to level the deck off and put the correct camber on. Its a good method of plating, and you learn by your mistakes (as they say) - the next hull I plate, the inner plates will be 3-4 times the width. Also, I will spray the paper/card first.
The next stage in the job is to build a building stand.
aye
john e
bluebird
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She is looking good John.
Bob
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Did you start from the bow or the stern, bluebird,
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WOW
That looks fantastic
gary rowe
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Well, hi ya my friend Captain Anon
I started plating the hull from the stern with the centre keel plates - all the way up to the bow. I kept this central with a centre line marked on the hull, transferring the centre line from the hull to the centre of the plating which gave me a reference point for my next set of plates i.e. the Garboard plates.
I then worked one set of plates per either side of the keel keeping the alternative vertical butts in line
aye
john e
bluebird
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That sounds fine, keep up the good work, C A
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hi all, very slow build this one :D
Just finished making the 'A'frames - Ive put this pic on as it might be of some interest to some people. The jig I made up to hold the A frames while I solder them. Very simple jig to make as you can see from the pic.
The second picture shows just the fitting of the running gear, with temporary props on and I am in the process of making the rudder. One problem I did encounter was, with me plating the hull in paper, when I have come to cut through the hull to fit the prop shafts and A frames, the plating tended to tear. I ended up having to cut back through with a very sharp scalpel to create a very clean cut and filling the raggy edges of the plating with a P38 chip and dent repair kit - this is a very fine filler.
Will post more pics soon, when we get a bit further on with the build there are just another 108 port lights to put on the side of the hull now.
Aye
John E
bluebird
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hi all, at this stage I am putting the running gear in - rudders, motors and steering servo. I have included a picture of the rudder set up with the servo because I was asked by a few forum members about the way I prefer to set up rudder servo linkages. I prefer the closed loop e.g. two push rods from either side of the servo drive - which I have attached a picture of. I use 1.16 welding rods for the linkage rods. At either end of the linkage rods I use the plastic connectors that the fly-boys use.
Now moving on - see a pic of the motor with an amp meter. What I prefer to do is run the motors in along with the prop shafts for about an hour to two hours continuously running off the battery with an amp meter in circuit. I fill the prop shafts with a mixture of high-melt grease and the 3 in 1 light machine oil. After about 2 hours running in of the motor and shafts, I remove the grease and replace it with a small amount of grease and oil.
There is a side pic showing the 130 port lights which I have just finished fitting - hey what a laborious job. One thing that didnt work for me was a method I had read about where you fill a brass tube with clear epoxy and then cut it off at 1/4" intervals to form your portlights. What I found was that there were two many air bubbles in the epoxy and also when you cut through the brass outer of the tubing it tended to snap off the epoxy in the remainder of the tubing. Not a good idea.
aye
john e
bluebird
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Nice one John.
Coming on a treat.
One thing though, have you thought about using masking tape ?? ;D
Richard ;)
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What's wrong with that line. Blubird came from the Ray Charles school of painting ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Nothing wrong with that waterline, its a rough weather waterline ;D ;D
John, It is really looking good. I cant wait to see the deck and superstructure.
Regards David
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hey there clever clouts.... have you ever tried painting a water line when you have had 3 large drams of amber nectar because after 3 large drams not only does the water line look straight but you often wonder did you dip your brush in the paint thinners or the whisky cos they both taste the same here ;D
On the serious side though, I may have a bit of a problemo masking my mates, because this afternoon I had a bit of trial masking a spare bit of paper plating which I had sprayed and then over painted as a tester - and it pulled the paint off and ripped the paper :o :o :(
aye
john e
bluebird
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John,
have you sealed the plating with PVA?
Bob
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hi there Bob, I gave the hull a coating of watered down pva and then my son sprayed it on my behalf with 'Plasticoat' spray and then, up to now, its had 4 coats of Humbrol number 64 and 4 coats of Humbrol brick red number 70. The test piece I did this afternoon just had Plasticoat and a coat of number number 64 grey.
aye
john e
bluebird
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John,
If in doubt paint the whole hull with varnish, matt or satin, if you use a polyurethane varnish it gives a good hard finish that wont easily yellow.
But saying that I use Ronseel mattcote and never had a problem.
One last thought, are you using Tamiya masking tape, it is low tack and pretty good to use.
Bob
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Hi all
just a quick update on my build of the Daring;
Ive now installed all the electrics for the drive system with 2 ACTion Condor speed controllers and a mixer by ACTion courtesy of FLJ :)
All the electrics have been ran and tested so Ive sealed the decks down;
I'm building the superstructure out of birch 1/32 thick ply; now...Ive tried my hand at lithoplate just a small area admittedly. Yes, its good to work with, however, I am not truly happy working with it. I felt happier working with the plywood and felt I could manage just a good a finish on the ply with a quick coat of sanding sealer and then rubbing down. Its like everything in life, its what you are used to and, at the end of the day, I felt happier working with the ply.
Couple of pics just to show you, the main bridge superstructure is in, the boiler casing vents with the gun platform on top and now I'm in the process of building the aft search light platform.
aye
john
for eagle eyes, you will notice I dropped a clanger with the deck boiler casing, its about an inch short, but a quick fix later will correct that.
aye
john e
bluebird
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Looking good John.
I knew you could paint a straight line if you really tried.
Richard ;)
PS Stop pointing out your mistakes before I get a chance to. ;D
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nice work on her cant wait till shes on the water . :) keep the pics comming
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Starting to come together nicely and she is looking really good, can't wait to see some more pics.
Hannah.
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Just a couple more pics as I am in the process of building the chimney pots /funnels.
I make these out of 1/64 birch ply bend round formers of the shape - then I cover them with thin card and a coat of sand n sealer. See what you think.
Here's the laugh for you ;D Tiger,Tiger will you please inform the Chinese that there are 16 x 1/16 to the inch - and not 20 and there are 32 x 1/32 to the inch and not 40 - well what it is, I needed a new straight edge steel rule and I saw a bargain in the market for £1, made in China ;D ;D when I was actually scaling up from the drawing (the drawing is in 1/16 to the foot) I couldnt understand why some of the dimensions were a mile off. It wasnt until I was counting along the 1/16 on the steel rule, knowing there should be 8/16 to the half inch I didnt realise why there was 10. ;D ;D
All that glitters isnt a) gold or b) correct. The offending ruler is in the photograph ::)
Aye
John E
BLUEBIRD
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Come on John.
You have a rule thats marked off in 1/10" down one side and multiples of same down the other.
Its what was known as in the good old days as an engineers rule.
What you obviously should have bought is a builders rule buddy.
G'day Richard ;)
PS Do scratch builders measure or just make it fit ? ;D
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Dicky
Divide one inch by 16 - and on an engineers rule you should have 16 segments
on this particular rule its stamped on 1/32, 1/64. and 1/16 - instead of having 16 segments, it has twenty ;D
on the opposite side of the rule it has 1/10s, 1/50s and 1/20s which is correct
Ive used many engineering rules, verniers & micrometers and Ive never come across a ruler like this one.
aye
john e
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Must be an intelligent southern one John. ;D
Sorry I could only see the sections, could not make out the writing. ???
Richard ;)
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PS Do scratch builders measure or just make it fit ? ;D
If you have to ask the question, you wouldn't understand the answer. I'm still trying to work out what use an assembler of kits would have for an accurate rule.
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;D ;D ???
I had one left over from when I was a fit and healthy joiner.
Richard ;)
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hi all
ah, its great to get back to 'scratch building' ;D as you can see Ive been making bits and pieces for the superstructure range finders and soforth - and the anchor capstains on the bow. Got a few more bits and pieces to make (fitting wise) and then on to the fun part making the guns.
aye John e
Bluebird
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She is comming on well John.
Bob
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Hi all
just to let certain people know I havent given up on the build - HMS Daring :D
Couple of pictures show an update. Im still busy doing parts of the superstructure, topedo tubes all made out of plastic tubing with copper wire and also pieces of wire insulation.
The white structure behind the funnel is the framework to hold the copper punt (for use as a battle practice target). This is all made from plasticard strip. Im being very 'daring' and adventurous - Im attempting to use plasticard where I would normally have made this from wood strips.
aye
john e
bluebird
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..... and a couple more pics
john
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Looking good mate. Didn't lose your touch when you did your kit build then. Might finish that one some day ? :-\
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Aye, thanks there Dicky, now I know where to send this kit :embarrassed: well I might finish it off pretty shortly - keep the better half happy :D :D
aye
john
bluebird
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Hi there one and all
I have been busy doing a little bit work on the bridge front by making and fitting 4.7 ammo boxes. There seems as though there are hundreds to be made. ( Lost count after 16) - these were made by covering squares of balsa wood with 20 thou plasticard and 1/16 square Evergreen SripStyrene.
Also making depth charges and depth charge throwers. I have made these from Styrene tubing.
I have also commenced work on the aft emergency control centre - you can see the two engine room telegraphs and I am also in the process of making the binnacle & voice command pipe. The binnacle is made up of three beads. The voice command pipe is a sewing pin to be camouflaged.
You will see I have also added the forward galley chimney.
aye
john e
bluebird
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Coming on well John O0
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Brilliant work your doing O0 O0 O0
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hi there now for the next stage of the model, the bit that, for some reason, I dont enjoy making the ship's small boats :)
There is a 25 foot motor boat, two 27 foot whalers and a single 15 foot rowing/day boat. The way I describe is the way I make mine and, like everything else in modelling, its just one method of making them (I know there are many other ways).
First of all, I trace the profile outline of the boat and the top view of the boat out and transfer this onto 1/64 plywood. Then I cut this out (just with a scalpel knife) and glue the profile shape to a piece of balsa wood the correct length and half the width of the boat - as you can see in the photograph.
I then glue the second piece of balsa wood to the opposite side, sandwiching the 1/64 ply shape in the middle, as per photograph. Then, I sand the profile shape so you can just see a feint outline of the ply down the centre. Once I have completed this task I glue the top profile shape onto the top of the balsa sandwich as per photograph.
I cut offthe excess material, as can be seen, with a small saw - then proceed to sand that profile shape in. Once I have a square block, roughly the shape of the two plywood profiles I am making, I then proceed to shape one side of the hull with varying grades of glass paper/sand paper. Once this is complete and I have done both sides, I then carefully hollow out the innards of the model. I use various scalpels and varying chissels to do this, and, I also sometimes use a Dremmel tool.
Once I am quite satisfied with the removal and the shape of the inner hull, I then, simulate the planking on the outside using printer paper and pva glue.
Once this is complete, I give the inside and outside two coatings of sand n sealer with a very light rubdown with wetndry. I give an undercoat of paint and once this has all dried I proceed on fitting the seats and the bottom flooring to the internals.
Hope this is of some help.
aye
John e
bluebird
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and ...... some more pictures ... of the small boats build.
aye John e
bluebird
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hi last couple of pics, you will not that the size of boat has drastrically changed from being a 27 foot whaler down to being a 15 foot rowing boat, when the picture is shown of me adding the planking strips. This is because, when I was busy making the 15 foot rowing boat, I was checking the plan and on the overhead view of the ship, below the drawing of the 15 foot boat, there is a dotted outline of a 27 foot whaler. Now, this is where I will have to do a little bit more research, does this mean that the 15 foot boat was stowed on top of the 27 foot whaler, or was this an alternative position for the whaler to be stored.
So, just in case, I have started to make a new 27 foot whaling boat.
aye
john e
bluebird
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John,
Continue with build please - or have you finished it :)
Where's the pic's then ::)
martin doon under
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Hi there
Here is an up to date picture of HMS Daring - she is almost finished - I am going to send for some stanchions next. I put her to one side :P due to the fact, getting a little bored with greys and wanted to do something else - variety is the spice of life :P :D :D
aye
john e
bluebird
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Lucky Man ;D
The good lady lets you bring your models into the Bedroom - WOW ! what a Lady ::) ::)
Martin doon under
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Great looking workshop John.
Don't you dare leave this one unfinished.
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Hi ya there
There's rigging & stanchions to do and a little tidying up O0 and then, that's it, finished ... ready for the Spring time to go out on the Lake.
John
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John,
Is this a pic of your build
Martin doon under
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Hi ya there
There's rigging & stanchions to do and a little tidying up O0 and then, that's it, finished ... ready for the Spring time to go out on the Lake.
John
it's spring now John, or is it summer ? :-\
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hi there - hey Dicky just remind me which part of England UK do you live in - :D :D :D there is snow forecast snow right up the East side of the country - and where do I live - right by the North Sea .......... I ventured oot for the first time today and it was blinking perishing my man. I consider it to be summertime when I dont require thermals under this here wetsuit ya nar warra mean like .....
Martin, yes your photograph is spot on - HMS Daring - Lord Mountbatten's first command.
aye
John e
BLUEBIRD
by the battered North East coast :) :)
AND THIS IS ONE GEORDIE WHO ISNT RUNNING ROUND IN A SHORT SLEEVED SHIRT - while I go around in me Arctic gear :) :) :) {-) O0
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Hi one and all
Can't believe I finished this model in 2007 and she has never ever seen the water, apart from being bath tested for stability - and - after that was done she has been gathering dust until this week gone. I retrieved her from the dust, cleaned it, reinstated some of the electronics - 2 ACTion speed controllers, one mixer - 2.4 receiver to match the TF transmitter and battery pack. Everything hunky dory - crew were satisfied - fuelled it up with 2 x 330 Ni-MH7.2 battery packs and off we trotted to the Lake this fine morning. Recovery team, myself and my camerwoman wife :-) oh ....... how entertaining it all was :-)
Talk about Gremlins being there. Placed the model in the lake it was as straight as an arrow, couldn't turn model left or right, crashed into the rowing boats in the middle of the lake and that is where she had to be rescued. Luckily a guy rescued the model and recovery team son had to gallop half way round the lake just after a near miss from ploughing into quite a number of scale model yachts :-( Recovery satisfactory.
Further investigation found the rudder wasn't responding/set up with the mixer.
So that was rectified - back to the waters edge again. This time it shot off like a bat out of hell this time - a near miss with the ducks and ploughed straight into side of the lake - hey ho - square fronted naval vessel at your service.
I have though, found, that she only has a 20 ft range and if I went further than 20 ft away - one motor shut down and the other went full pelt forward no control.
So the camera woman wife of mine could only get a couple of short videos of one I have taken a screen shot - just before it disappeared full pelt.
Waiting to be returned to the workbench when I can stand looking at the begger again - :-)
I cant understand why I only have a 20 ft rang as the receiver well up in superstructure and batteries all fully charged.
fun and games - in fact I have never made a model quite like it - I thowt I was back in the old 27 mghz days when the CB radios used to interfere with us.
Happy modelling :-)
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what sort of water was in the lake bluebird, and where were the electronics situated.
I have heard from others that if salt water sailing, electronics under the waterline, and you are sailing on 2.4 ghz, then the signal can just bounce off and signal lost after 20 -30 feet.
so in the paraphrasing of good ol' British Rail...wrong sort o' water.
Jim.
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She looks good from a distance so I am certain she will look fab on film and close up.
Bloomin electrics >>:-( I think clockwork is the way to go.
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Hi there
I definitely think (at the moment) it was the Gremlins - I have it stripped down on the bench - and I cannot make the faults re-appear at the moment. I have the manual out for the Planet T5 transmitter to find out what the range should be for the signal and it says it should be over 100 meters. The receiver in the model is situated in the superstructure about 2 inches higher than the water level. I know, when we were down the lake (which is fresh water by the way) after we had all the miss-haps and all of a sudden sensibility creeps in and you think to yourself - you should have done a range check first thing - we did a check out of the water - and it was still on 20 - 30 ft - something definitely wrong somewhere.
So, as I say, at the moment - I have all the electrics on the bench - the only possibility is the speed controllers and mixer I acquire from our own Dave M when he first took over ACTion and I believe they may have been 'old' stock - because the mixer is of the old design (in other words modern mixers from ACTion - when your throttle stick is in neutral and the rudder is moved from left to right - the motors don't kick in) it is only when you move the throttle stick in either forward / reverse then when you move the rudder stick the props alter. Now, the version I have when your throttle stick is at neutral and you move your rudder stick the props operate. I have a feeling the combination of this and the old speed controllers may not be compatible with 2.4 signal - the signal band may be just that little too narrow.
I have noticed a few times that 2.4 systems seem to be a lot less forgiving than the old 40 mghz.
We didn't get much closeup film of it - and what we have - I would need to delete the swearing from the takes :-)
John
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I enjoyed your letter. Really down to earth and very entertaining.
I think we can say we've all experienced occasions like this, which is what makes our hobby so interesting. No two days are the same.
Best of luck with your problems. I know you'll solve it and we look forward to the movie. :}
Cheers
ken
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Instalment two of the Grand Day out :-)
Sorted out the problems following the first day's outing - I renewed the mixer in the model by replacing it with a mixer - Alan Bond's design - through Technobots. This mixer allows you to adjust the percentage of mix between the rudder and the props - which is of a great advantage. Then, I found the main problem of range of the transmitter. This was due to the aerial wire inside the transmitter becoming loose. For those who have similar problems and all else has failed; in other words you have tried all avenues of fixes to ensure that it is the transmitter at fault. My particular transmitter is the Panet T5 - what I did, I unscrewed the back carefully BE WARNED be careful as there are wires connecting a jack plug which is mounted in the back casing to the circuit board and if you pull the back off too quick YOU HAVE A CHANCE OF RIPPING THESE WIRES RIGHT OUT - then I located the wire running from the antenna all the way down to the bottom right hand corner area of the circuit board. You will see there is a small gold coloured clip at the end of the wire - and this had become detatched on mine - causing the problem of shortage of range. All fixed, batteries charged, pre-range check making sure everything is working on the bench
............................ got it down to the Lake
...............nowt would work - NOT AGAIN :-) I have a feeling the model just doesn't like water, at all!!! it's afraid of it....but after I gave the model a good talking to, and etc., it started working perfectly
So good sail followed....
here's a pic of her sailing - mind, I must add - she is kinda wobbly in the watta :-)
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Absolutely beautiful model...she looks great on the water....congratulations
E
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Now that is a pretty warship John.
Them small vessels do seem to wobble as there is not much breadth and depth of hull to counteract all the stuff we have to put topside, but as mentioned many times elsewhere, careful planning and material choices should reduce the problem of capsize {:-{
I am pleased you found the problem and we have learnt a valuable tip about Planet receivers :-))