Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Steam => Topic started by: Muleears on January 04, 2012, 09:45:13 pm
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My new Krick ($$$) Victoria arrived today from MiniSteam with a crack in the main deck! It appears to have happened in shipping as the box was somewhat crushed. My question is what should I do? I could repair it and it would be barely noticeable, BUT, should I? Or should I get on the phone with MiniSteam and see if they will do anything. The package was left at my door while no one was home, so no one saw the damage before delivery.
Here are a few pics:
(http://s15.postimage.org/khubpcpjr/SAM_2577.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/khubpcpjr/)
(http://s14.postimage.org/4htr67gwd/SAM_2578.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/4htr67gwd/)
(http://s17.postimage.org/v45rbt46j/SAM_2579.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/v45rbt46j/)
There are two cracks, the one above the level of the pen is clean through. The one below is just a crack about 2" long.
Is this something I should just fix myself or should I make an issue out of it? I am NOT a master model maker, a flaw like this will probably blend in with all the other flaws when I am done. So, what do I do?
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After posting I realized it may be hard to tell what is a crack and what is supposed to be there. Below I have highlighted the cracks in the deck.
(http://s14.postimage.org/xbop7pbgt/cracks.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/xbop7pbgt/)
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Contact them and tell them you want a replacement I would not stand for it myself
Dave
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With any kit or service of any kind, if you have any issues at all, you should make these known to the provider. Whatever the issue, they are the ones who will need to deal with it, and I am sure they would much rather find out from you directly than from reading your comments on a modelling forum.
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I had a Deans kit delivered recently and the same thing happened, the box had been crushed in transit and the hull badly damaged but it was not at all obvious when I took the delivery, it had clearly been pushed back into shape before being given to me. It looked OK on the outside and you can hardly open up and inventory a well wrapped kit on your doorstep before signing for it. I contacted Deans and Ron sent me a new hull by return of post with no quibbles. Full marks for that. He told me that transit damage is a common problem but it is almost impossible to get the carrier to accept liability.
So yes, get back to Ministeam and explain the situation. It is incumbent upon them to remedy the problem and take it up with the carrier if they want to do so.
Colin
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Ministeams problem not yours, get in touch with them they are legally responsible to sell undamaged goods.
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I have sent a polite email to them outlining the situation. We'll see what they do.
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Anything broken I find when unpacking I stop and photograph it. The less unwrapped the better.
I send them to the suplier both to get a replacement but also to help them make a claim against the carrier.
The worst I ever had was a laser power supply, not an insubstantial bit of metal, reduced to a quarter of its thickness. and full of airfield mud.
The carrier (DHL) said a lorry had run over it, but without a complaint from a recipient their policy is to delivered it.
The funny thing was that Customs had subsequently inspected it wrapped it, mud and all, and charged duty on it.
I got it replaced FOC. After some trouble customs waived the duty on the second unit when I threatend to send a photo of what they had done to an appropriate government bureaucracy hating tabloid newspaper.
(http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/231/dscn6878f.jpg)
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I have sent a polite email to them outlining the situation. We'll see what they do.
They need to know what is happening to their packages - if there is a poor service they may want to change their carrier. It does their reputation no good for people to receive damaged goods...
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Anything broken I find when unpacking I stop and photograph it. The less unwrapped the better.
I send them to the suplier both to get a replacement but also to help them make a claim against the carrier.
The worst I ever had was a laser power supply, not an insubstantial bit of metal, reduced to a quarter of its thickness. and full of airfield mud.
The carrier (DHL) said a lorry had run over it, but without a complaint from a recipient their policy is to delivered it.
The funny thing was that Customs had subsequently inspected it wrapped it, mud and all, and charged duty on it.
I got it replaced FOC. After some trouble customs waived the duty on the second unit when I threatend to send a photo of what they had done to an appropriate government bureaucracy hating tabloid newspaper.
That the best bit of damaged kit I have seen.. %%
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Anything broken I find when unpacking I stop and photograph it. The less unwrapped the better.
I send them to the suplier both to get a replacement but also to help them make a claim against the carrier.
The worst I ever had was a laser power supply, not an insubstantial bit of metal, reduced to a quarter of its thickness. and full of airfield mud.
The carrier (DHL) said a lorry had run over it, but without a complaint from a recipient their policy is to delivered it.
The funny thing was that Customs had subsequently inspected it wrapped it, mud and all, and charged duty on it.
I got it replaced FOC. After some trouble customs waived the duty on the second unit when I threatend to send a photo of what they had done to an appropriate government bureaucracy hating tabloid newspaper.
(http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/231/dscn6878f.jpg)
come on david, with your talents thats a quick fix !!!
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way down here it would have to be fixed. too expensive to get a replacement. bit of tin bashing, tube of glue, some silicon sealer and its good as new. ok2
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way down here it would have to be fixed. too expensive to get a replacement. bit of tin bashing, tube of glue, some silicon sealer and its good as new. ok2
I'm afraid I may have to end up just fixing the Victoria and living with the crack. It would probably cost another $50 to ship the kit back to MiniSteam. I may have to decide if its worth another $50 to have a uncracked deck. It would make me very happy to just receive another deck in the mail. That seems to me to be the simplest and cheapest solution.
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It would make me very happy to just receive another deck in the mail. That seems to me to be the simplest and cheapest solution.
That's what Deans did for me, just replaced the damaged hull in armour plated packaging!
Colin
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Well, its been a day and no response from MiniSteam...
I want to do something with the boat but I don't dare till this is resolved. I guess I'll wait another day or so.
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If you have to repair your deck, any evidence will be hidden by the planking, which completely covers the subdeck.Here is a link to a good set of photo's of a Victoria build that I found when I got mine. :-)) :-)) :-))
http://www.flickr.com/photos/90322523@N00/sets/72157605148425113/
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Muleears ....I agree with pettyofficernick regarding the fix.....which would be technically and mechanically sound with two reinforcing strips glued under the decking.....
You could always pen a detailed costing note to Ministeam...quoting ...the return costs + new deck cost + return shipping costs back to you.......scenario.......
Make an estimate of each ....then suggest that you would be happy with a Ministeam voucher for say 50% of the actual costs for redemption at their store.......just a thought :o......Derek
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MiniSteam replied last night at about 830. Apparently they are trying to get me a new deck. I would be satisfied with that. :-))
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Probably one of the worst times of the year to persue any claims/complaints. No doubt they are now getting their 2012 heads on after the festivities, it's only the 6th of a new year. At least they have responded with what looks to be an agreeable solution.
Now to start actioning a claim with RM for lack of delivery. >:-o
Regards Ian.
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If you have to repair your deck, any evidence will be hidden by the planking, which completely covers the subdeck.Here is a link to a good set of photo's of a Victoria build that I found when I got mine. :-)) :-)) :-))
http://www.flickr.com/photos/90322523@N00/sets/72157605148425113/
Great pics, thanks Nick. These have given me some ideas. It is my goal to have the Victoria finished by my annual vacation in mid July. We stay on a lake in central New York for a week, perfect opportunity to learn to steam!
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You are most welcome. I will post some photos of mine when I resume the build, It has been idle on the slipway through lack of funding. I see you come from Virginia, I have been watching a most interesting TV show about a Virginia coal mine on TV, thoroughly enjoyable!
Regards,
Nick. :-)) :-)) :-))
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Now to start actioning a claim with RM for lack of delivery. >:-o
What's it got to do with RM ok2
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Well, I got a pleasant call from Suzann at MiniSteam tonite. They seem to be diligently working on my problem. They are trying to get me a new deck from Krick and are opening a case with UPS. UPS may want the entire package back though, kit included. So I still can't do anything with it! I must say, so far MiniSteam is getting a :-))
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Looking like a good result so far :-))
Mark.
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What's it got to do with RM
Nothing as far as the Ministeam claim is concerned. Just hope my own to Royal Mail goes as smoothly, - - - but I know it won't.
Regards Ian.
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UPS is picking up the box and the broken deck tomorrow to return to MiniSteam. At least its progress. I hope I get the new deck soon, I'd like to start on the boat!
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I just got this interesting letter from MiniSteam: >>:-(
"Hello, Calvin,
UPS is not going to honor any claim on this shipment.
I pulled a new one off the shelf and looked inside. It has a board in it also where the punch-out pieces are already to begin to come out. I don't think it will survive a shipment and with the cost to ship we are reluctant to ship this item also and face the same consequences of broken pieces.
We will gladly refund all your money. "
In my reply I pointed out that the pieces falling out of the sheets was not the problem, it was the cracked deck. I went on to ask if they are going to stop selling the Victoria and where else could I get one. This answer confounds me. Aren't they in business to sell kits??? Where else can I get a Krick Victoria?
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Yes shipping can cause problems. But so much depends on how an item is packed. If say a deck was packed between two boards then all would be ok. Sadly the cost would be high. It does seem that often damage can and will occur. Possibly you could contact the makers directly? John.
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I just got this interesting letter from MiniSteam: >>:-(
"Hello, Calvin,
UPS is not going to honor any claim on this shipment.
I pulled a new one off the shelf and looked inside. It has a board in it also where the punch-out pieces are already to begin to come out. I don't think it will survive a shipment and with the cost to ship we are reluctant to ship this item also and face the same consequences of broken pieces.
We will gladly refund all your money. "
In my reply I pointed out that the pieces falling out of the sheets was not the problem, it was the cracked deck. I went on to ask if they are going to stop selling the Victoria and where else could I get one. This answer confounds me. Aren't they in business to sell kits??? Where else can I get a Krick Victoria?
Why wont UPS 'honour' the claim? Was it sent to you uninsured?
Anyway, I guess the supplier thinks damage will be made to any kit they send and perhaps dont want to insure due to extra cost (insurance can more than double the initial courier costs).
But, imho, for such a small bit of damage as shown, I wouldnt have been bothered providing there had been no other damage. Others may disagree, all Im saying is for such small damage, i wouldnt bother asking for a new kit or replacement.
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I am thinking along the same lines as 'Justboatonic' - from the photograph it's really quite a simple fix, if it's only a subdeck and will be planked then there's less of an issue.
The supplier has been willing to refund you but if getting another one from elsewhere is such a problem stick with the one in your possession and repair.
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I am thinking along the same lines as 'Justboatonic' - from the photograph it's really quite a simple fix, if it's only a subdeck and will be planked then there's less of an issue.
The supplier has been willing to refund you but if getting another one from elsewhere is such a problem stick with the one in your possession and repair.
There lies the problem,
UPS is picking up the box and the broken deck tomorrow to return to MiniSteam. At least its progress. I hope I get the new deck soon, I'd like to start on the boat!
Mark.
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The customer is the one in the driving seat at the moment. Cancel the claim, decline collection and keep the slightly damaged goods - as long as the customer is happy-ish then everyone will fall into line.
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Was the kit returned? That is the question!
If it wasn't then a repair is the obvious way forward. If it was then a refund seems to be the only option and then look for an alternative kit.
A replacement deck would have been the best solution. When my Deans hull was damaged, Deans sent me a replacement which was very well protected and not at all heavy.
Colin
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The customer is the one in the driving seat at the moment. Cancel the claim, decline collection and keep the slightly damaged goods - as long as the customer is happy-ish then everyone will fall into line.
It was due for collection two weeks ago, and to answer
Was the kit returned?
In my experience - UPS won't make a decision on the claim without everything in their posession.
Mark.
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The problem is, UPS required the return of the kit and the box, so now I have neither. My point of view was that I had paid for a complete undamaged kit and that was what I expected. As it stands now they have offered a refund which I am inclined to accept, IF it includes a refund of the original shipping cost. But now where do I get a Krick Victoria? Had I known from the start that ending up with no kit was a possibility I would have kept the one I had, but unfortunately that is now not an option.
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>>:-( >>:-( <*<
Now I have a new letter which sounds like pure and utter BS to me. Let me point out that I live just outside a large metropolitan area. Here is the latest from MiniSteam:
"UPS declined the insurance claim. It was costly to send the boat to you. It does not make sense to send the same boat in the same packaging by the same service to the same address.
We will still carry the boat but we can not take the risk shipping to your area.
Sorry
Doug"
I don't know what's going on here but I'll buy nothing else from MiniSteam. Anyone know where else (in the US) I can get a Victoria?
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Hi there, have you tried an email to Jotika LTD, they are a uk based company who has a distributor in the US, I am sure they will be able to help, alternatively, A Model World, also based in UK but very helpfull and very reasonable pricing. Good luck with your search.
Regards,
Nick. :-)) :-)) :-))
http://www.jotika-ltd.com/
A Model World - RC Model Boats - Never beaten on Price or Service
www.amodelworld.co.uk/
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Pity you don't know anyone in the USAF and get it "Transported" via Mildenhall, Lakenheath or Fairford.
Regards Ian.
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Hi there, have you tried an email to Jotika LTD, they are a uk based company who has a distributor in the US, I am sure they will be able to help, alternatively, A Model World, also based in UK but very helpfull and very reasonable pricing. Good luck with your search.
Regards,
Nick. :-)) :-)) :-))
http://www.jotika-ltd.com/
A Model World - RC Model Boats - Never beaten on Price or Service
www.amodelworld.co.uk/
Thanks Nick, I sent an email to Jotika-Ltd, we'll see what happens. I have also requested a full refund from MiniSteam. Through this action they have lost me as a customer.
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As an update on my quest to get a Victoria, as mentioned I sent a letter to Jotika Ltd. and got an immediate response from John Wright. Mr. Wright told me he would forward my letter to Mr. Krick himself and he was sure Mr. Krick would be in touch with me soon. Well it has been over a week and I haven't heard anything from Mr. Krick or Mr. Wright even after a reminder letter. The only positive note in this so far is I have gotten a full refund from MiniSteam. I had no idea it would be so hard to buy one of these kits. It astounds me. I am not sure where to go from here... As I see it my only option may be to buy one from the UK and pay an additional $70+ shipping and run the risk of damage again. I am open to suggestions....
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I received a letter from Mr. Wright at Jotika Ltd that informs me that Mr. Krick is at a toy expo in Nuremburg and he is sure Mr. Krick will solve my problem upon his return. I am keeping my fingers crossed.
I did find another source for the Victoria in the States but it was $98 more than I originally paid...
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are the two splits shown the only damage done in transit, if so a drop of aliphatic resin or whatever you are going to use to build it would have fixed it in seconds, far less time than all the emails etc that you have sent from what I gather the part is even coverd ? sorry its a kit if you read Neil's post on how a kit or 3 are put together you will see that there is not a lot of profit for the manufacturer , you have found that it is the cheapest you will be able to get one by far so just stick it. when you start building you will know doubt break other parts or cut them a fraction short etc that is what happens with kits you have to learn to fix these little problems as you build or every kit you buy will be scraped at the first hurdle, this might sound harsh but kits are kit's a kit of parts you have to fit together.
Peter
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are the two splits shown the only damage done in transit, if so a drop of aliphatic resin or whatever you are going to use to build it would have fixed it in seconds, far less time than all the emails etc that you have sent from what I gather the part is even coverd ? sorry its a kit if you read Neil's post on how a kit or 3 are put together you will see that there is not a lot of profit for the manufacturer , you have found that it is the cheapest you will be able to get one by far so just stick it. when you start building you will know doubt break other parts or cut them a fraction short etc that is what happens with kits you have to learn to fix these little problems as you build or every kit you buy will be scraped at the first hurdle, this might sound harsh but kits are kit's a kit of parts you have to fit together.
Peter
Peter,
I agree with you, had I realized from the start that this was the sub-deck that was split I never would have sent it back. My fault for not being familiar with the kit and its construction.
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My advice to ANYBODY shipping anywhere in the world, DO NOT USE UPS. I ship & receive lots of auto parts on a regular basis & I will not use UPS. I will also not allow any supplier to ship to me using UPS, if they insist I will not buy from them period. In all my years ( over 10 years) until I stopped doing any business with UPS either shipping or receiving, I have never received or shipped anything with UPS that did not cause me a problem & I never collected a dime on a damage claim. I have the letters & documents to prove it. My biggest loss was over $1400.00 & not one cent refunded. One of their regular staff told me he would never ship by UPS, he used another company, not a ringing endorsement I would say. However I have never had a problem with Fedex, it may cost a little more but no hassles. I have shipped & received parts in excess of $200,000.00 some years so I have lots of experience with shipping companies, believe me. Mick B.
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I once had a box of foam aeroplane wings deivered by Australia Post and right in the middle it had a hole that was the exact shape of a forklift blade, sent photos and a letter to them and was told It should have had a layer of 3mm ply either side to protect the foam wings.
Fought it and won the complete value back but I would love to know who sells the 3mm ply that is impervious to forklift attack!
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Well, I have decided to try again. This time, since they won't ship to my address I'm having it shipped to a friends house in a nearby city. Hopefully have it next week and get started next weekend. I'll probably start a build thread then. Actually, due to my lack of experience and no one nearby, it will actually be a question asking thread! Wish me luck, both with the shipping and the build. :-))
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Ask away, we love to help. :-))
ken
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Ask away, we love to help. :-))
ken
I have a PMR 8M twin for the motor and a Macsteam 3.5" horizontal boiler. Does this sound like a good power supply for this boat? I originally bought this pair for an African Queen but the 'Queen was only 30" long and I realized the motor and a full boiler would probably sink the boat!
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Muleears, I have fitted the PMR V Twin in a 42" Kingston Mouldings hull and it pushed that along really easily so for the Victoria I am sure you will have power to spare. Just make sure you mount the propshaft in such a manner that you can fit a big prop. Based on my experience I think you will need to fit at least a 3" diameter prop and it might be better to get a Propshop steam prop which has more pitch than the diameter. That way you might get away with perhaps a 2.5" prop with a 3.5" pitch. You need to load the engine up and keep the revs down so it does not use too much steam. Hope this helps, Ian.
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Ian, that's great advice :-))! I would have thought of shaft placement about the time I tried to put the prop on for the first time which probably would have been too late! So you think the 3.5" Macsteam will provide enough steam?
The Victoria II will be in my hands Wednesday.
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Hi Muleears, I have a 3.5'' Maccsteam horizontal in my Victoria and an SVS 10mm bore engine with a 65mm coarse prop and it runs like a goodun, I get about half an hours run on a boiler full of water with no extra feedwater. There is a link to a couple of utube videos of the engine trials down at my local lake. Unfortunately, I am using my phone at the moment so cant copy and paste, but I have posted them elsewhere on the forum. To save space, I made a disk coupling from a Meccano wheel, only takes up about half an inch instead of the two inches or so required by a Huco type coupling. Mounting the boiler with the funnel towards the engine looks better, and you can then mount the gas tank close up to the burner to allow some radiant heat to keep the gas warm.
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Hi Muleears, I have a 3.5'' Maccsteam horizontal in my Victoria and an SVS 10mm bore engine with a 65mm coarse prop and it runs like a goodun, I get about half an hours run on a boiler full of water with no extra feedwater. There is a link to a couple of utube videos of the engine trials down at my local lake. Unfortunately, I am using my phone at the moment so cant copy and paste, but I have posted them elsewhere on the forum. To save space, I made a disk coupling from a Meccano wheel, only takes up about half an inch instead of the two inches or so required by a Huco type coupling. Mounting the boiler with the funnel towards the engine looks better, and you can then mount the gas tank close up to the burner to allow some radiant heat to keep the gas warm.
Great advice Nick, I am not familiar with the Meccano wheel? I'll do a search and see what I find. Using the horizontal boiler am I going to have a problem fitting everything in, or will all the weight be too far forward? Did you mount your motor/boiler setup on one piece of wood/metal or are they seperate? Ian had suggested the PropShop, I found a 2.4" prop with a 4.1 pitch, is that similar to yours? Will my PMR V twin opererate at a similar RPM to your SVS? I had already viewed your vids, they were great. Looked like a nice place to run your boat too. I will be using a lake. Most likely early morning when the water is calm. It's good to know someone else has a similar setup and has been successful with it. I am sure I will be asking plenty of questions! Thanks! :-))
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Muleears, I used a 4" diameter vertical boiler with the V twin but the Macc 3 & 1/2" horizontal would probably hold as much water and horizontal boilers are more efficient than vertical ones. You can read about the "why" on the Maccsteam website. Do short runs at first, gradually lengthining until you know how many minutes you can run for before the water level gets too low. The main way to conserve steam is to load up the engine so it does not rev too high and to do that you need a good big prop with plenty of pitch. The 2.4/4.1 prop sounds ideal and I will try one next time I am buiding a prop driven boat. Cheers, Ian.
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Meccano wheel is probably a "Pin and disk" type coupling, so if you feed that into your search engine.
Regards Ian.
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Good evening Muleears, the Meccano wheel is basically a brass disk with a boss in the centre and a series of holes around the edge. I turned one of the holes onto a slot from the edge to the centre and reduced the diameter of the disk. A hole was drilled into the flywheek to match up with the slot and pushed a roll pin into the aforementioned hole. It sounds more involved than it actually is, I am away at the moment, so I will post a photo when I return home next weekend, and all will become clear. I mounted the boiler on a baseplate fron Tony Green steam Models and the engine on an offcut from the same plate, as mt engine is tilted as in the ans for the boat. I had several trial fittings, each time I managed to reduce the overall footprint of the steeamplant.
Have fun,
Nick
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My new Victoria has arrived! I will start a new thread to document and ask for help as I progress. Thanks to all for the help in this thread.