Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Navy - Military - Battleships: => Topic started by: brianB6 on January 18, 2012, 09:40:18 am
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It's probably about time I started my own topic instead of using Gelns and Dickies. %%
I have been building H.M.A.S. Ararat "The Rat" an Armidale class Patrol boat for more than 15 months, using Steve Batcheldors fibreglass hull. The reason for Ararat is that she is the only Boat named after a town in the State of Victoria where I live.
I enjoy doing the detail parts working mostly in brass and perspex. Yes, they are heavier than styrene but my styrene parts either come apart or the paint comes off. <:(
The latest parts I have been working on are the 25 mm. gun (see Glens build of an Armidale) and the rear steps.
The diagonal mesh was from Northyard in N.Z. but I am not sure if they still have it.
Although it is about the right dimensions I fear it may clog up when painted.
The bolts will go through the transom so that it can be removed for painting the hull. I much prefer to paint as much of the boat as possible at the same time but with the details painted separately.
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Very nice Brian. I take it that your boat is 1:50 scale. :-))
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Hi Dickie.
Yes, 1:50 to go with my 1:48 Vosper Mk. 3 Corvette and Cervia.
I have done some more turning on the drill to make up some of the anchor handeling details.
They all need finishing off.
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I have done some more turning on the drill
Hi Brian - How do you do that on a drill? I ask because I thought I would have to have a lathe.
A pm would do if you don't want to interrupt your build log.
Thanks Dave
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Happy to show the world. :embarrassed:
The Engineers on this site will probably be horrified at using a drill but I am not trying to make a steam engine. {-)
I can usually get to within about 0.05 mm. of the right dia. and length.
I have a 13 mm. Makita hammer drill with reverse but no speed control unfortunatly.
Just held in a 4" vice on the bench.
Light cuts only as the drill bearings are not meant for side pressure although the hammer drill bearings are probably better than a plain drill.
For turning I use a series of files from 150 mm. down to needle files and wet and dry paper.
I also use a jewellers saw or junior hacksaw to cut narrow slots and 'square' corners.
The files need to be cleaned with a fine wire brush to get rid of the swarf that clings to them.
Most of the material I turn is brass rod but I have used aluminium and a little steel.
The reverse is really useful as files cut differently in each direction.
Only have the minimum work sticking out of the chuck and try to finish that part before moving the rod out for the next cuts. (As per Glens gun barrel shown below)
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Some more turning. The Anchor and Port and Stbd. stern winches.
The photos really show the faults. :embarrassed:
Just remember they are less than 10 mm. high. <*<
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Brian,
Thank you. :-)) :-))
Any more photos.
Bunnings have a larger 2 speed Makita Hammer drill with reverse, and not overly priced.
However the older ones are be sturdier having been built in Japan.
My variable speed with reverse, 10mm with hammer, is still going strong, bought in late 1970's, back then it cost twice as much as the current bigger Hammer drill.
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"Your wish is my command" %%
The supports for the gun platform and the almost finished gun. Most of the bits are still loose so may not be properly aligned.
SWMBO wants 'more' cupboards so it may be a few days before I can get back to the boat. <:(
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Coming on well Brian, makes mine look a little sad.
Brian do you know the width of the superstructure ladders for my 1:72 scale ?
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Hi Dickie
Not quite sure. There are two widths:-
P & S up to Bonnet vents appear to be 425 mm. or 450 mm. ccs. on the handrails. (say 6 mm. at 1/72nd.)
The rest:- Stbd gun platform, Stbd. funnel (2 off, one above the other from bridge deck) Port from rear deck to bridge deck work out to 350 mm. to 375 mm. ccs. on the handrails. (say 5 mm. at 1/72nd.)
Approx 320 mm. between treads. (say 4.2 mm. at 1/72nd.)
Handrails (Side rails) about 25 mm. dia. and treads 20 mm.
Maybe Glen can measure them?
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Thanks Bri, that will help a lot. (http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p8/DickyD_photos/Smileys/tumb.gif)
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Ok Brian - Thanks a lot for the turning info - I can rig something up
I have plenty of spare drills etc O0
Dave
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Thank you for that Brian. What a great idea. I was just thinking about how to create a couple of small fittings.
I have a spare hammer drill and a vice, but no lathe. I could now do them in brass rather than fabricate in ABS. :-))
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I have not turned every part. The Trim tab hydraulics are brass tubes since they appear to be almost the right size. %%
Non of the bits are fully assembled yet so they might show as slightly out of place. {:-{
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Very nice Brian but could you do that in 1:72 scale ? :}
Could not do it on mine as it would be to heavy.
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Yes, weight has always been a problem with this hull.
That's one of the reasons I used tube and keep any brass sections as thin as possible.
In hindsight, it would have been nice to build in a larger scale. 1:32 perhaps.
Getting to painting time and seeing how "the Rat" performs with a full load. O0
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A few more small parts.
Towing post which will be used to hold the removable section of the rear deck in place.
Searchlight brackets and P & S light surrounds. I cannot think og the right name. <:(
The first of 12 Bollards. Only 11 more to go. %%
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Hi brian
Carpenters Box springs to mind for the side lights!!!!
Glen
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Maybe the left hand photo should have been posted under "Name the Part" %%
What are they? Divers boots ;D
The right hand photo shows them soldered onto their deck mounting plates.
Yes, Bollards O0
And NO, I am not going to make any more, even for myself! after getting rid of the cramp in my finger from holding the soldering iron so steady. <:(
They have to be so accurate to look right and even now I can see the imperfections.
Maybe I should have bought Steve's moulded ones, but I had to give it a try. {:-{
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Brian,
Wouldn't worry about it.
Unless the full sized ones are cast, then imperfections will be present in the real thing.
Reckon it adds realism to the model.
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brianB6........do you have any acquaintances with [small] sand blasting or grit blasting equipment? ...it does an excellent job & turns fabricated soldered components into look like cast items......& a great key for your grey paint
opps.... %) there is no grey in the colour chart..........Derek
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The full size bollards are fabricated so cast ones would be wrong.
Plenty of grey, but perhaps it does not matter if the paint comes off. It does on the full size boats!
I use a tooth brush and neat Cream cleanser to get the worst of the flux off.
Photo of Armidale bollard.
Does anyone have a better photo of the Navigation lights? They appear to be painted black and do not show up very well.
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1. citric acid removes flux
2. P&S navigation lights on all RAN vessels have the 90 degree included angle back & side plates as flat black
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Hi brian
As Derek says the mount for the light is painted flat black at the back, base and the bit against the bridgewing. The lights are moulded black and are made by Aquasignal if you want to get some more details on them.
(http://s13.postimage.org/w4usi06zn/DSC00869.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/w4usi06zn/)
Cheers
Glen
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Lovely work, Brian, and great attention to detail :-))
Peter.
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Many thanks. O0
I am not saying where all the mistakes are but the area around the nav. lights has changed 3 times in the past week and I am still not happy. <:(
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Brian, very envious over here. I've always dreamed of getting a small lathe, but you have shown it is possible with less expensive options.
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I keep regreting that I sold my old lathe. Not very big and very old but it did what I wanted.
I am never likley to build a steam engine so size is not so important.
I would not mind a small combo mill / Lathe like the Titan 125 if I could ever justify it $859
125 swing, 180 bc.
The drill will have to last for a bit though.
I also use my Makita sander mounted on its side, clamped to the bench, for a lot of shaping. It's surprising how accurate one can get with a bit of practice.
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Hi Brian
Great work on your build, it is really starting to take shape.
I have only just found the thread after not being on the net for a while after my move to Canberra.
You asked for a photo of the nav lights a couple of days ago. Not sure if you have found one so attched is one that I have.
Keep up the great work.
Steve
(http://s15.postimage.org/ljql49sif/Light.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/ljql49sif/)
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January you revealed the Makita drill turning method
February you reveal the Makita sander shaping method
I just can't wait for the March edition Brian :-)) ;D
I'll have to buy some Makita shares too :D
Dave
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Topic renamed. :-)
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Happy about that Martin.
I did wonder if Mayhemers would get the inference.
I don't have that many tools that I use in the "wrong" way. Says he with a band aid on his fingure from sticking a craft knife in it. <:(
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Been there, done that,,, got the season tick at casualty! >:-o
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Ha - so funny. I hadn't realised Martin really had renamed the topic.
I thought he was just having a little joke re the Makita tools O0 {-)
Ha I'm wetting myself here.
Dave
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I have 'bitten the bullet' and have started painting at last.
Just some undercoat on the hull so far that has revealed some very small pin holes and work that's needed around the prop shafts that have now been filled.
I am going to try using epoxy enamel, as used for metal work. It is one of the few paints that come in small containers and flat and satin finish. It does take 24 hours to go hard so there will be a lot of watching paint dry. {-)
In the meantime I am trying to work out how to build the davits. Thanks for all the pics. Glen.
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In the meantime I am trying to work out how to build the davits. .
You and me both Bri, have just ordered some more plastruc
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No snow here!
Forecast is for 38 degrees today, it's already to hot to paint and the wind is getting up. %%
I managed to paint the decks last week and some of the superstructure and details have had a thin coat to find the faults (and there are quite a few) <:( <:(
The photos show that one should always try out the paints one is intending to use in the same order. They are both enamels (but different manufacturers) and worked perfectly with the Storm Grey over the Pewter but, Oh dear!!! not the other way round.
My air brush is a very old (35 years +) Badger which I have altered to take small 1/2 oz. jars as well as the original 2 oz. ones. I used to use a car tyre that had to be frequently reinflated but my son has leant me his 40 litre compressor, which has worked so well that I shall probably invest in one. They are about 1/3rd the price of a proper air brush compressor.
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Hi Glen
I think we have covered this before but I cannot find your answer.
What colour are the Bridge roof, Gun platform and Bonnet strip?
From tha overhead view of HMAS Pirie they seem to be a different colour to the decks.
It may only be the angle the photo was taken since in other photos they appear to be Pewter.
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They'd better be the same Bri, that's what you told me.
They look the same on my photos. (http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p8/DickyD_photos/Smileys/tumb.gif)
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Hi Brian and Dicky
I believe ther are only the two colours used. it may look different in your pic because the semigloss of the hull looks out of place in the shot???????
Glen
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Thanks for that Glen (http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p8/DickyD_photos/Smileys/drinking24.gif)
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I have done some painting and added some 'fun' items. %%
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I have started the handrails and for those who were wondering about the stanchions:-
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Nice job Brian (http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p8/DickyD_photos/Smileys/tumb.gif)
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Advice for those considering building the gates.
DON'T
The single gates took 3 hours each to construct and the double ones even longer and then I found they did not fit! >:-o
Oh where, oh where, did I go wrong? <:(
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Wish you had told me about your gates before I had done mine.
I had the same problems as you Brian, they took ages to make and mine didnt fit either.
I'm still waiting for Steve to turn out my RHIBS but I dont want to chase him. Once I get them I can finish my boat of. :-)) :-))
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Well you did them first!
You could have warned me. >>:-(
Mind you, I am perverse enough to try to make them anyway. %%
Several hours later, the second set look a lot better. They just need a bit of tweeking. :}
And just to show how I made them:-
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Same way as me Brian (http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p8/DickyD_photos/Smileys/tumb.gif)
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Great minds think alike. O0
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Just a thought Brian????? If I send my hull down to you could you do all the stanchions and rails for me????? :}
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Rather a risky proposition.
I am just as likley to drop yours as I did mine and bend the stanchions. :embarrassed:
I had to replace 6 of them. <:(
Hopefully the final coat of Storm Grey sprayed on today. It's all I can do to stop myself fiddling. I know if I do, I will ruin it. Why does paint take so long to dry? {:-{
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Oooo! 2 pages. %%
The Storm Grey has been sprayed on the hull and superstructure and a "soft" fitout tried so I can see if she floats in the bath and where the water line is. {:-{
There's nothing worse than getting to the lake and the whole thing turns turtle in front of a crowd. <:(
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Brian
Very nice tidy layout, :-)) :-)) :-))
Any chance of posting some close ups O0 O0 O0
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Well! At least she floats the right way up. %%
A little heavy and there are still more details to add. {:-{
I will post some more photos when I can get a neutral background. Against the gravel drive it is difficult to get down to 161kb.
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Here goes! %)
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It did not like more than one photo at a time.
Try again.
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Brian,
Thank you, Really looks the part.
I see some thought, went into making the 'board' removalable, some good tips there. :-)) :-)) :-))
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And again.
Don't let SWMBO know I used one of her sheets. {-)
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Brian,
I see some thought, went into making the boards 'removalable', some good tips there. :-)) :-)) :-))
Yes, I like to be able to easily remove the radio, servos and motors in case anything goes wrong.
I am a strong believer in O'Tooles law:-
"Murphy was an optomist"
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Excellent job Brian, a real work of art.
Where are the davits ?
Is it the photos that make the colour look so dark or is it because the colour always looks darker the smaller the item is ?
Great job though. (http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p8/DickyD_photos/Smileys/bowingsmiley.gif)
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I think it is the camera that is distorting the colours.
It was a white sheet in the background and even in the full resolution photos, it appears purple. :((
Davits? What davits?
Bridge roof aerials next. %% All those light coloured spots.
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Brillant build job BrianB6 ......congratulations ...... :-)) .... Derek
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Don't let SWMBO know I used one of her sheets. {-)
Looking really super Brian. I have been following your build with great interest. :-))
PS: If your Good Lady knew about your using her sheets she would have insisted on them being ironed first (tee hee)
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Looking really super Brian. I have been following your build with great interest. :-))
PS: If your Good Lady knew about your using her sheets she would have insisted on them being ironed first (tee hee)
Australia is doing it's bit to save the environment, so we don't iron sheets any more because they get re-creased any way O0 O0 {-) {-) {-)
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The Bridge roof is starting to look like an echidna. %%
Still the radar and other bits around the front to be built. O0
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Too neat, cant compete with that Brian. (http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p8/DickyD_photos/Smileys/bowingsmiley.gif)
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Thanks Dickie
You can stand up now. :embarrassed:
I turned the top of the HK aerial (looks like a diabalo) yesterday but I think I will have to pass on the wires below it. 8 No. >0.3 wires on a 5 mm. dia. is well beyond my fingers.
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Well! She will have to be H.M.A.S. Ararat now. O0
Thanks Mr. Becc.
Most of the Bridge roof aerials have been painted and installed.
The radio and motors have been tested and are ready ( sometime) for a run on the lake. %%
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Yes, I know I said I would not do them yet, but the rear deck looks too empty.
I have started the davits. :embarrassed:
Frames from perspex and the head from brass.
A long way to go yet.
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So this is what you have been doing all the time you were missing then Brian.
Looks good though.
I have just heard from Steve that he has finished my RHIBs and they will be sent shortly so I will be able to finish mine off.
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p8/DickyD_photos/Smileys/tumb.gif)
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Why NOT to try out a new boat in front of the public.
I took 'The Rat' to our local lake for a trial. The steering servo was backward so I promptly ran her into the bank at a fair speed. :embarrassed: <:(
Fortunatly it's a Specktrum 5 so just a matter of reversing the trim on the Tx.
There was to much weed to try her out properly but certainly plenty of knots with the JR 480's and 35 mm. 3 blade props. Bit noisy though, mostly from the motors and Huco couplings. Could be the speed controller does not suit the motors and is creating vibration.
Does anyone know of a coupling that is not a universal joint. I remember Ripmax used to have one with a plastic sleeve that was suitable for i.c. Probably long gone.
Otherwise I will try using the Graupner 480's that I have.
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There was a thread a few months ago all about couplings - I'll try and find it.
Dave
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http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=33847.0
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Thanks Norseman
I might try some plastic tubing as an experiment and if it works buy the proper thing.
I put a 10 amp multimeter in circuit and adjust the motor mountings for the lowest current drain so the alignment should be pretty close.
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Brian, I made my own couplings for HMAS Bundaberg, using some car speedo cable between two brass fittings turned up on my lathe. There's a photo in reply #27 here -
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=18654.0 (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=18654.0)
It works very well and is extremely quiet, far quieter than the universal joint types.
Your boat is looking fabulous, very impressive indeed :-))
Peter.
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Hi Peter, thanks for the compliments. I just hope she is not too "pretty" to sail.
I have thought of cable but how does it go in the 'unwind' direction?
I am off to our Clarke Rubber store today to see what plastic tube they have.
The ones I remember from Ripmax and the current ones from MMB etc. seem to have quite thick walls which probably won't be the case with Clarkes but it is worth a try.
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Brian,
You may want to also look at car part places such as Autobarn, Super cheap, as they stock tubing which is fuel resistant.
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I have thought of cable but how does it go in the 'unwind' direction?
I've had no problems with unwinding, Brian, probably because the piece of cable is so short (less than 2cm) and the water resistance on the props is not great. A short piece of speedo cable is actually extremely hard to unwind by hand.
Peter.
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Well! Clark Rubber had plenty to choose from.
I bought 6 mm. clear plastic at $2 per metre and 7 mm. car vacuum hose at $4.50 a metre.
I am trying the latter as it is slightly more flexible and has a thicker wall.
504 Gateway timeout has resulted in the picture coming up twice.
Did you know that room 504 was where the bugs were ironed out on the first internet.
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Lousy photo. It's not so easy to hold the transmitter and the camera at the same time. %%
Under way. At last! O0
Plenty of speed with the 35 mm. 3 blade plastic props.
Does anyone know the equivalent in 5 blade brass? "C" type 168 series.
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Lousy photo. It's not so easy to hold the transmitter and the camera at the same time. %%
That's why I got my wife to take the photos of Bundaberg's maiden voyage. It's a great moment when your latest creation gets under way for the first time. She certainly looks the part on the water, Brian, and I'm sure you'll have a lot of fun with her.
Peter.
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Very nice Brian.
Have you done your davits yet ?
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As I mentioned before, not in front of the public :embarrassed:
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Hear you met my mate Martin d u. at that posh pond you use.
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Yes, we finally met. A very nice bloke.
It is his lake as TF 72 sail there.
Our group went along to add our support to the "Wooden Boat Assn." day with them.
We sail at Lake Illawong, further south. All welcome on the 3rd. Sunday in the month from 11.00 am. onwards. O0
Missouri (1:100) leading Bismark (1:100) and Cornwall (1:72)
No comment on the progress of the davits. :((
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Very nice Brian.
Have you done your davits yet ?
Very slowly coming along. {:-{
Guide Rails and Shock absorbers.
Winch. Bits and part assembled.
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Looking good Brian!
I thought you were making 4 davits???? :D :} %)
Glen
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You have got to be joking. ;D
I know why I left them to the end. All the odd angles, three attempts and they are still not right. >>:-( <:(
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"The Rat" had her first public sail today.
Worked beautifully! O0
Only one small problem:- the 35 mm. props almost got her plaining and she became unstable at full speed.
Reduced them to 30 mm. which lowered the top speed slightly and kept her level. Even so she was probably doing 40+ knots if full size. %%
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Brian, mine also goes too fast at full throttle, but it's easy to pull the stick back a bit until it goes at a more realistic speed.
Peter.
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I agree about reducing throttle but if it has to go too close to neutral then you loose delicate control.
Better to get the props. etc. right so you have control over the full range.
I thought that the 'Moonraker' aerials would get easily broken and be an 'eye' hazzard so I have made them removable by using 2.5 mm. mini plugs and sockets. Easy to just push in and pull out and very secure when in place.
For those of you who have been wondering about the davits I spent 3 weeks trying to make them out of plastic to save weight. Different glues, pins, bolts all failed. They just fell apart as soon as I looked at them. <:(
In the end I went back to brass and soldering. So much quicker soldering and if the angle was not quite right, so easy to make small adjustments.
The first one was made in a week! Despite the fact that there are over 50 parts just in the main assembly.
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I agree about reducing throttle but if it has to go too close to neutral then you loose delicate control.
Better to get the props. etc. right so you have control over the full range.
I thought that the 'Moonraker' aerials would get easily broken and be an 'eye' hazzard so I have made them removable by using 2.5 mm. mini plugs and sockets. Easy to just push in and pull out and very secure when in place.
For those of you who have been wondering about the davits I spent 3 weeks trying to make them out of plastic to save weight. Different glues, pins, bolts all failed. They just fell apart as soon as I looked at them. <:(
In the end I went back to brass and soldering. So much quicker soldering and if the angle was not quite right, so easy to make small adjustments.
The first one was made in a week! Despite the fact that there are over 50 parts just in the main assembly.
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2 or 4 davits??? :D
They look marvelous but not too heavy are they?
Glen
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Hi Brian
Great job on Ararat, it sounds like its a real performer.
I love the davits. I have been agonising over how to construct and mould these things for months. Still no clear direction as there are just too many parts for a simple mould.
Would be good to see some photos or a video of her on the water.
Keep up the great work.
Steve.
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Sorry Glen, only one so far and a few bits for the next.
It's all hollow tube so not too heavy.
Hopefully some photos of her on the water in a month when i meet up with the "Group photographer" again.
Not sure of videos unless I can get my son in law to visit the lake.
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A bit better picture but reducing it to under 160 kb means I have had to trim it considerably and the colour is a bit off. <:(
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Hate your davits Brian, make mine look crap [Didn't type rubbish]
Your davit is excellent, a real work of art.
I'm just out of hospital again and hope to finish my boat soon, once I am feeling better.(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p8/DickyD_photos/Smileys/drinking25.gif)
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Davit, singular.
Hopefully I can start on the next one some time this week after taking grandchildren to school because No.1 daughter is sick, picking up furniture that my wife has bought at the op shop, buying a new soldering iron to replace the one I damaged etc. etc. <:(
Glad you are home.
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Davit singular
Davits plural.
But NO more. {-)
Just placed in position and still needing some hydraulic activators.
And no! I am not going to do the hydraulic lines, even if I knew where they all run! <:(
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Beautiful job, Brian, lovely workmanship. I'm green with envy <:(
Peter.
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Thanks Peter
I'm blue with cold. No. 1 daughter pinched all our spare electric heaters to take on a calisthenics camp this weekend including mine from the workshop. 4 degrees C. this morning.
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I'm blue with cold.
Well, you will live in Melbourne {-) Mind you, it's not too warm up here at the moment, either - quite wet and miserable, in fact :((
Peter.
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Brian,
It is also raining in Sunny Queensland, must be the change of government {-) {-) {-)
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We blame our location on one of my sisters in law, who came to Melbourne and invited us to join them from UK. %%
Then moved to Canberra. {:-{
Another did at least warn us of the joys of winter in Montreal! Sorry any Canadians. %)