Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Navy - Military - Battleships: => Topic started by: rsm on April 16, 2012, 06:47:46 pm
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I picked up a Nichimo 1/200 Hatsuzuki kit and decided to RC it. It is designed to be motorised so the conversion was quite straightforward. I used Prop Shop props and shafts, a 5g servo, Mtroniks 10amp esc, NiMh AA batteries and Zebra 40mhz radio setup.
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A few close up pictures of the rc setup.
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A few construction photos. A few bits of photoetch (radar, grills and funnel caps) and turned brass barrels from GPM in Poland.
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Finished off with White Ensign paints and sprayed all over with satin varnish.
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Very nice.
How long is it? seems to be quite small
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It's about 67cm long with a beam of about 6cm. It will be an escort for my Nichimo Yamato when eventually finish it!
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First post! (hurrah)
This submission of yours is what I was looking for as I have a Nichimo Akizuki (sister ship) on the way soon and RC conversion is the only way to properly build this kit in my estimation. Before I saw your photos, which speak for themselves, I had figured you had used the customary Nichimo gearbox which is usually included in these kits. I reckon the gearbox is a bit rudimentary, noisy and is probably not an efficient means of transferring motive power (although it is likely ideal for simple motorization of which the kit was designed). You instead have used dual direct drive motors. May I ask what type or size motors you used?
I would like to hear how the maiden voyage went as well as the typical duration of the run-time.
Fine work.
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wow ,real good job here .fasinating ,well done ,very impressive.
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The motors are Orion servo motors from Hunter Systems (www.huntersystems.co.uk). A word of warning if you make this kit, you will need to move some of the deck fittings to enable the removable deck section to go on and off. And don't attach the torpedo tubes permanently to the deck as they will stop the removable deck coming out as well. So far she has only been in the bath for testing, but there were no problems. I think if I made one again I would probably use the kit props and make up shafts and tubes from brass rod and tube.
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"When" not "if" I make this kit; although I am a well known procrastinator. ;) I am aware of the lack of access through the deck sections and there is customarily no access to the rudder area in any Nichimo destroyer, WWII IJN or modern JMSDF (Japanese Maritime Self Defense Force). That's a kind of unnerving matter as you sandwich the upper and lower hulls together. Could be a good thing though as it forces you to fashion the rudder mechanism to a high level of quality (as it becomes almost inaccessible afterwards) and that area is then more sealed from water ingress.
I was saying to myself that your shafts and stuffing tubes were massive, especially in raw form but once painted they seem to blend in. The props are beautiful too as they have the proper tapered hub or "exit cone". It is my understanding that the kit props are plastic? The props (and shafts) of every Nichimo JMSDF kit I've encountered (I have two of them) have been made of brass which is quite a nice thing to behold.
Thanks for the info on the motors. Looking forward to your sea trials.
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Just received the kit. Some say these kits are comparable to Tamiya et al, but they never did anything like these. The large scale takes one aback. Someone said it appears "quite small" but it is definitely large enough for RC, especially with today's miniature components. A nice level of precision is evident.
I am curious if the servo motors you used were adequate. Destroyers are meant for speed so it remains to be seen whether these motors "pack the stuff."
Cheers.
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The Orion servo motors work just fine. The ship looks plenty fast enough, but is definitely not like a speed boat. I picked up another kit cheaply which I may do at some point, but it was missing a sprue, which I can't seem to replace, so may need some scratch building. I think two of them sailing with my Yamato would look quite good. :-))
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Any photos of your "Hats" underway? If I could see a bow wake, I could estimate the power those motors provide.
Also curious how well the kit's rudder performs. Some people redo the rudder in an application like this making it larger to make the craft turn better; something about water not scaling down very well. ok2
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I don't have any images of her underway, so I'll have to grab my glamourous assistant and camera and take some pictures when I get the chance. O0
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RSM, Were you able to get her to sea?
I have obtained a few Orion servo motors but have not played with them or tested them. They seem very high quality but they are also purportedly rather rare. Curious also as to how stable your destroyer is in the water.
Thanks.
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Sorry not much sailing for me recently, too busy with other stuff including building an O gauge steam locomotive and my 1/96th scale HMS Solebay.
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Went for a quick sail last week. Hatsuzuki was stable and quite responsive (about a 2m turning cycle when hard over at full speed). She is not super fast, but top speed is reasonable and probably quite scale. I was going to take some pictures but a loss of power when out in the middle necessitated a daring rescue. Suffice to say I left the backside of my trousers on a barb wire fence and ended up getting wet!!! <*< But she was rescued with no damage. Turned out quite a lot weed had been picked up and wrapped around the props! ;)
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I did honor you with a reasonably timely response, but I see now in light of some site difficulties it had actually never existed; figment of my imagination. {:-{
So it seems you had to sacrifice your trousers and swim a little to save your Hatsuzuki? Now that's dedication. :o
Now why would there be barbed wire near your pond, were there also "KEEP OUT" signs posted? This cannot be a good situation.
In retrospect, would you have increased the size of your rudder from original/stock (a 2 meter turning circle is pretty ungainly)? ? Is the turning circle any tighter at low speed?
You must make another sortie with pictures. I would be gratified.
Also, how many AA cells did you end up using? The pic is not too clear.
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Incidentally, I also picked up another Nichimo kit, the 1/200 Shiranui which is a Kagerō class destroyer and a good companion piece to the Akizuki class. Strangely, this kit is not set up for motorization like the rest of the series and the hull is one piece molded in gray. It actually makes it a bit easier to convert in that regard.
Great kits and a heads up as they are still out there to be acquired.
(http://www.1999.co.jp/itbig01/10010194.jpg)
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Harquebus,
Roughly what is the length of the Shiranui kit.
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The kit is smaller than the Akizuki class and measures out to 23.1875 inches (or 58.8 cm). It is 2.0625" (or about 5.2 cm) at its widest point. Not prohibitively small and would make a great "suitcase" R/C ship... at least that's the appeal. :-))
http://www.rc-blueworld.com/dockyard/200/shiranui/shiranui_01.html
http://www.k2.dion.ne.jp/~with21/model/ship/j06.html
http://hwm7.wh.qit.ne.jp/yanenoue26k/101_radicon/103_siranui/siranui_main.html
-Harq
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Hatsuzuki runs off 4 'AA' batteries. I can always attach a piece of clear plastic to the rudder to improve performance and detach it when the model is on display. In answer to your question about oiling the prop tubes (from your reply that disappeared!), I just use a drop of 3 in 1 oil at the ends to lubricate before a run (I haven't had any water ingress). As for the fence and barbed wire they are on my property!
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Thanks for all the info RSM. Seems you are among the very few who even attempt such RC conversions of these, perhaps lesser known, kits.
raaartygunner: Perhaps the Nichimo Shiranui/Kagero (two different versions of essentially the same kit) is not the optimal kit to convert. I have accumulated as many of the "1:200 Identical Scale Series" as possible. There may even be more out there than I am unaware of.
The largest of the 1/200 series aside from the gargantuan Yamato is either the (modern era JMSDF) DDG-163 Amatsukaze or the DDA-164 Takatsuki or sister ship the DDA-165 Kikuzuki. "Out of production" is the word on these kits but they can still be had. I am a little bit passionate about these kits for some reason... %%
Both types can be seen in this vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgI-HJCn4_Y (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgI-HJCn4_Y)
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I am currently working on the Nichimo Yamato, I will try and post some progress pictures tomorrow.
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I am currently working on the Nichimo Yamato, I will try and post some progress pictures tomorrow.
I for one will be eager to see your endeavours :-)) :-)) :-)) :-))
I take it that it is the 1:200 scale kit.
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Seconded on seeing your endeavors. :-))
Well, he did say it Hatsuzuki was going to be an escort for the Yamato when he finishes her; it would be ridiculous if his destroyer would be escorting a 1/500 scale Yamato... %%
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Seconded on seeing your endeavors. :-))
Well, he did say it Hatsuzuki was going to be an escort for the Yamato when he finishes her; it would be ridiculous if his destroyer would be escorting a 1/500 scale Yamato... %%
That I missed {-) {-) however there are 1:50 tugs escorting 1:200 ships at various ponds %) %) %)
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I know. Doesn't it irk you to no end?
At least get in the ballpark area of scale. I think the Lindberg Diesel Tug would be more fitting.
There are some 1/200 scale tugs out there; Revell Smit Houston and Revell Smit Frankrijk to name a few. ;) ;)
(http://www.modelcars.com/model-kit-zoom/revell-deep-sea-tug-boat-smit-houston.jpg)
(http://www.scalemates.com/products/img/7/9/8/140798-10244.jpg?nr=05209&company=revell&name=smit%20frankrijk)
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RSM:
What are the adhesives you used to affix the prop shafts, motors, receiver and such? Some of it looks like RTV silicone caulking which looks good for reducing vibration.
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The prop tubes were epoxyed in and then sealed around and faired in with milliput. The motors, receiver, servo and esc were stuck on with no more nails double sided tape and then secured with silicone rubber from Maplin.
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Great. I have been able to find No More Nails internationally which is good. Thanks for making this product known as it looks like a good alternative to hunting down or fabricating a metal or plastic mount or otherwise making it more complicated than it needs to be.
What is the typical length of run time you experience on the Hatsuzuki's 4.8V battery?
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I have never run it long enough to flatten the batteries, so they last quite a long time! :}
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Well, you wouldn't want them completely flat and leaving you stranded in the middle of the lake. :o
But I was wondering how long it was before you noticed the batteries getting weak?
Some other conversions of the Akizuki/Hatsuzuki speak of the RC components being too heavy and/or the actual waterline being too high. Is that a concern with yours? I mean as a motorized model (motor/battery/gearbox), it was probably ideal as-is but one is adding considerably more weight with a servo, linkage, brass prop shafts and props and receiver.
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Most of the components are pretty light weight so she floats pretty close to the proper waterline. I haven't sailed it any longer than 30 minutes in one go, but the cells still had plenty of juice in them. The batteries are quite high capacity and the motors draw very little current so I guess you could go quite a bit longer. In answer to one of your previous questions the motors and electronic components are secured in position with Servisol silicone sealant (the no more nails tape is used to hold things in position until the silicone sets).
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Salut RSM.
What kind of glue did you use to assemble the model? Was it ordinary plastic model cement and of what viscosity? The joint between the upper and lower hull halves would seem to be most critical. Can you explain how you did your hull joining procedure?
I had also heard that Nichimo uses a sort of proprietary type of styrene plastic that might require a different or stronger cement. This may be conjecture however...
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I used Revell Contacta professional glue and taped the hull together with tamiya tape until the glue set. The glue is not viscous and works well on the plastic, the joint between the hull halves is pretty strong. :-))
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In this video here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sK7AqxOexlY) you will find a similarly converted Nichimo Akizuki handled badly. Either it is slightly top heavy as evidenced by the heeling or that heeling is induced by ham-fisted application of the rudder (quick application of full port/starboard or anywhere in between). Maybe a more gradual change in direction instead of the usual rapid cycling of the rudder servo would stop the port to starboard "bobbing".
Do you have similar handling issues with yours? Does she require a a certain finesse in operation?
I also see the destroyer is slightly too bow heavy, lighter in the stern and there's some prop cavitation as they come out of the water in sweeping turns.
I enjoy picking your brain on this particular topic. I guess because the subject matter is such a rarity. :-))
Thanks.
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No handling problems with mine it is very docile. You can go from full port to full starboard, and vice versa, at full speed without upsetting it. Don't know if it would be the same if you enlarged the rudder though.