Model Boat Mayhem

Mess Deck: General Section => Model Boating => Topic started by: cwmitch on April 30, 2007, 06:20:29 pm

Title: Ever Disapointed?
Post by: cwmitch on April 30, 2007, 06:20:29 pm

Well here's the question for ya to ponder.How many of us have had
our hearts set on a particular ship only to receive the  hull and think
is that it I was expecting it to knock my socks off?? Let me know I
cant be the only one that's felt it or can I !!!!!



Colin.......
Title: Re: Ever Disapointed?
Post by: FullLeatherJacket on April 30, 2007, 06:59:41 pm
Colin
Tread carefully, mate. You are bound to be quizzed about what hull you bought; who made it; where you got it from; why you're not happy etc etc. I've already written down my answers and sealed them in an envelope.
Go on........surprise me!
FLJ  ;)
Title: Re: Ever Disapointed?
Post by: kendalboatsman on April 30, 2007, 07:08:44 pm

 Let me know I
cant be the only one that's felt it or can I !!!!!



Colin.......

You certainly aren't the only one and that is all I will say.

Clive :)
Title: Re: Ever Disapointed?
Post by: cwmitch on April 30, 2007, 07:10:15 pm
Cheers matey,


I hear what you're saying but it's a
general question not specific, IE a
view I've had a few times over the
years and thought I'd ask.



Colin........  
Title: Re: Ever Disapointed?
Post by: chromedome on April 30, 2007, 07:21:19 pm
I have discovered that it helps if you don't know what a good hull looks like......

   chromedome
Title: Re: Ever Disapointed?
Post by: Bryan Young on April 30, 2007, 07:51:28 pm

Well here's the question for ya to ponder.How many of us have had
our hearts set on a particular ship only to receive the  hull and think
is that it I was expecting it to knock my socks off?? Let me know I
cant be the only one that's felt it or can I !!!!!



Colin.......
Within living memory I was well and truly castigated for my comments on "kits". It was never really recognized that I was getting at those "manufacturers" who were (and are) flogging off sub-standard items to earnest buyers....who become rapidly disenchanted.
I do NOT want to open this whole thing up again, but there are kit-makers out there that are really not good enough. Some are superb. It also cannot help when so-called "independent" reviewers write articles on rival manufacturers.
Once a manufacturer has a good mould that would probably cost about £300 max if he made it himself, how can it be justified to recover all the outlay with the sale of only a couple of "takes"?  My ethic is "make your own" and eventually the rogues will either come into line or go out of business.
Title: Re: Ever Disapointed?
Post by: kendalboatsman on April 30, 2007, 08:58:32 pm
Hi Colin,

Wasn't sure if you were doing a name and shame thread and probably best to avoid that. But yes I have been disappointed a few times, one of them was a leading kit manufacturer.

Clive :)
Title: Re: Ever Disapointed?
Post by: cwmitch on April 30, 2007, 09:45:50 pm
Your right Clive


It's not a name and shame, more a
general question and answer point
I was trying to make.....



Colin.......
Title: Re: Ever Disapointed?
Post by: Martin (Admin) on April 30, 2007, 10:28:09 pm
I bought a hull and plans as a gift  for a friend a few years back from the old Model Boats plans service (then under Nexel) I was almost embarrassed to give it over as the hull was so bad, uneven, lumps, bumps, dirt in the surface & badly formed. >:(  :-[ 

 I hope they are better now....  :-\
 
Title: Re: Ever Disapointed?
Post by: justboatonic on April 30, 2007, 10:34:17 pm
Yep. I purchased an RN Destroyer hull off a well known UK manufacturer about 6 or 7 years ago. This hull was supposed to be one of the first out of the new mould. The thing was so incredibly heavy I couldnt see how it could be built to settle on the true waterline when fitted out with motors, nicads decks and fittings. The top of the rear quarter deck was almost at the same level as the quarter deck cut outs themselves! The anchor recess was just a gob of fibreglass and would have needed cutting out and re making.

needless to say I sent it back for a full refund.
Title: Re: Ever Disapointed?
Post by: Colin Bishop on April 30, 2007, 10:39:43 pm
I have to agree with Bryan. Make your own and knock your own socks off!
Title: Re: Ever Disapointed?
Post by: Martin (Admin) on April 30, 2007, 10:51:04 pm

I've always wanted a Lerso Sun Tug kit..... went to Westbournes to have a look at it,  in the flesh, could believe it, a beautiful shiny jet black hull, one of the best I've ever seen..... and a box of wooden blocks for everything else ?!?!?!?  :o
 ... I bought a Graupner Bugsier instead!  ::)


(...damm this spell checker Dicky  ;))
Title: Re: Ever Disapointed?
Post by: FullLeatherJacket on April 30, 2007, 11:26:12 pm
Colin
Do you see what I meant?
FLJ
Title: Re: Ever Disapointed?
Post by: catengineman on May 01, 2007, 12:34:12 am
Did not actually buy the model but as I was able to have do a repair job on the same model I was thinking of getting it just knocked the "WOW" edge I thought it would have right off.

So went and got Tito Neri and built her (it) just in case the pc brigade are watching.

Had a look at another ship but that too did not insill the "WOW" factor I thought it would.

BTB the names of the vessels will remain secret to me and one other as there are several of these on this forum, they just did not do it for me. (my opinion)
Title: Re: Ever Disapointed?
Post by: sinjon on May 01, 2007, 08:46:04 am
Over the next few weeks I should be finishing my Sir Kay (Caldercraft) I am already starting to think about my next boat.
I have a few ideas. I must admit in the past, I have chosen my boat unseen, taken it home, and opened the box. So far I have always been pleased, and lucky.  Do you all insist at having look first?

Colin
Title: Re: Ever Disapointed?
Post by: catengineman on May 01, 2007, 02:15:38 pm
Personally I have to get the WOW factor to be interested or the model has to belong to some one else, Strange that?
Hey Ho its just the way I am

Richard,
Title: Re: Ever Disapointed?
Post by: tigertiger on May 01, 2007, 02:18:22 pm
I just look at other peoples and go WOW.

Especially on this site.

There is a lot of work between opening the box and WOW.
Most of it is down to the builder. It will be a few years till I am there, if ever.

Dissapointed?
Most of the time.
Title: Re: Ever Disapointed?
Post by: bigH on May 01, 2007, 05:00:08 pm
 ;)  TIGER  don't go knocking yourself down my friend, tell us of any member of this forum that doesn't look at their finished work and then thinks every one elses build is better than theirs.  I do for one  big H
Title: Re: Ever Disapointed?
Post by: Martin (Admin) on May 01, 2007, 06:11:06 pm

OK widening the tack a bit, I've said :o   WoW  (In a good way!) when inspecting a Robbe Comtesse and a Graupner Fiat Uno hulls  and also the fittings in the Mountfleet Higlander kit.....
Title: Re: Ever Disapointed?
Post by: Captain Anonymous on May 01, 2007, 06:18:59 pm
I took a picture of this one at ELLESMERE PORT the other week. ;) ;)
Title: Re: Ever Disapointed?
Post by: DickyD on May 01, 2007, 06:23:17 pm
Quote
Graupner Fiat Uno
Thats a bit desperate isnt it Martin ??  ???
Title: Re: Ever Disapointed?
Post by: J.beazley on May 01, 2007, 06:50:51 pm
Not built many boats as of YET but the ones ive had have been ok.

only thing to disapoint me so far are some of the RTR boats ive bought over the last few years and some of the WOW factor kits price tags.

Jay
Title: Re: Ever Disapointed?
Post by: Martin (Admin) on May 01, 2007, 07:01:21 pm
Not really, you should see it go!
Build on Mayhem soon....  8)

(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q168/MBmayhem/2.jpg)

Thats a bit desperate isn't it Martin ??  ???
Title: Re: Ever Disapointed?
Post by: DickyD on May 01, 2007, 08:22:37 pm
"Dont hold your breath then" I believe is the right expression. ???
Title: Re: Ever Disapointed?
Post by: cwmitch on May 01, 2007, 09:26:40 pm
I see what ya mean
FLJ. Oops I think I've
started something sorry
all.......



Colin............
Title: Re: Ever Disapointed?
Post by: John W E on May 02, 2007, 07:25:04 pm
hi all

my twopenneth worth about the WOW  :o FACTOR as everyone is calling it  ;D

Could it be, do you think, when we don't get the Wow Factor with something, that means we haven't done enough research into the product we are going to purchase.   I know we all must be guilty of it sometime in our life.   We have all bought something, whether it be a model boat, to even a motor car - where some part of it has let us down.    So, for anyone considering, buying kits/semi kits, obviously they have to do a lot of ground research to try and prevent the loss of the WOW FACTOR cos we must be sick of having the WOE FACTOR.

To pick up one or two comments about this on the thread about kit manufacturers, and semi kit manufacturers to say that they may only spend £300 to produce a mould is just the tip of an iceberg, depending on the company and obviously the kit.  The actual research costs can be 3-4 times the cost of the mould.

When you take into account the buying of the plans, photographs, costing of research time - so sometimes......the customer may think he is spending a lot of cash on a hull, and for the amount of money he has spent on the hull doesn't seem to justify it, but what he doesn't see are all the hidden costs as mentioned above.

The other thing that springs to mind is building your own hull and what you have to bear in mind is not everyone likes building their own hull - they prefer to build from a pre-made one.  Not everyone has the time/skill/knowledge to spend building the hull and this again is where a manufactured hull steps straight in.   

In my opinion nobody should say building your own hull is the best option.

aye
john e
bluebird
Title: Re: Ever Disapointed?
Post by: Colin Bishop on May 02, 2007, 07:37:15 pm
Quote
In my opinion nobody should say building your own hull is the best option.

Quite right John, it's just AN option but a worthwhile one for many. But at the end of the day it's whatever floats your boat and I agree that not everyone wants to build their own hull for various valid reasons.
Title: Re: Ever Disapointed?
Post by: Bryan Young on May 02, 2007, 08:06:53 pm
Quote
In my opinion nobody should say building your own hull is the best option.

Quite right John, it's just AN option but a worthwhile one for many. But at the end of the day it's whatever floats your boat and I agree that not everyone wants to build their own hull for various valid reasons.
OK, I will go along with Bluebird, but even so I would resent spending a lot of money on a product that is basically "not up to the mark".
This problem seems to be getting worse. I don't know why. "Bluebird" is very good at what he does, but even he must accept that there are some "out there" who are not, and these are the predators that I am targetting. The excitement, anticipation and hope that must have been dashed by those selling off second rate "stuff" must be legion.....and that my friends is what kills off a hobby. How are the disillusioned going to trust anyone again? All tarred with the same brush I'm afraid, and the good ones will suffer eventually. I am in no way connected to the "trade", but I do know of a couple of "good ones", and to see their products put many of the higher priced offerings to shame. If this is an "industry" then perhaps a regulatory body should be put in place. Pleasure and satisfaction to the customer should come before the "quick buck".
Title: Re: Ever Disapointed?
Post by: OMK on May 02, 2007, 08:40:29 pm
There is something magical about the way a hull looks and feels as it's gradually comes together. Personally I don't get that same feeling when working on store-bought hulls. Now't wrong with store-bought stuff, of course. One of my 'good' builds was created from a pre-made job. But if I needs a "WoW!" fix, then, for me at least, it only works with hulls made from scratch.
The other times when the wow factor hits is when I'm peering inside the finished model. The lighting, the servos, the power plant, the radio, rudder, the wood, metalwork, the gizmos...

Ever disappointed? Yep... especially the time when that swan sank my cruiser. Took me AGES to get that hull just perfect, an' all.

Title: Re: Ever Disapointed?
Post by: PSSHIPS on May 02, 2007, 09:30:33 pm
As a builder of both semi kits and scratch before I took over Sirmar. I have had problems with some stuff from here and there, but, I just got on with it. The main reason for taking on Sirmar was for me to carry on doing what I do and keeping the product available for others, if there is anyone out there that has any Sirmar PSSHIPS products of late that are not as it says on the tin,I would like to know, I would be very dissapointed in myself in both our lack of quality controll and also letting somebody down, but, if this is the case, let us know without bunging posts up first without asking the manufacturer. This is me Paul speaking for myself whatching this thread and I thought it was time to say something before all the moaners kill the manufacturers off by this sort of thing.
 For those who can't build a hull, but, want a boat, I ask what do they do then?

 There are not that many people who have got the required skills or time, but, I have just whatched somebody build one of our type 42 destroyers to a good standard within 6 weeks, hell, it takes me 6 months to build one to my satisfaction, never mind the customer who has never built a semi kit before.

 So lay off, each to his own.
 Paul...
Title: Re: Ever Disapointed?
Post by: tigertiger on May 03, 2007, 08:22:48 am
There is also the problem of some vendors taking the p155.

Selling Chinese toys like-  MTB for 99 quid and Challenger aircraft carrier for 125 quid.  These would be extremely dissapointing for the money.
I think they are worth about 30quid, which is what you will pay on ebay.

Then they sell a really nice model the Mary J Ward, by Victor Models for 450 quid. They cost less than 300 US dollars 150 quid).

They kit is definately worth 150 quid, but not 450.

Small traders do struggle to make a living, and overheads are higher per unit share, but the outfit I am complaining about is a big player.
Title: Forum ethics
Post by: chromedome on May 03, 2007, 08:46:27 am
 
  I was just wondering what the Forum ethics are (or guidelines), with regards to mentioning the name of a trader who has sold a bad hull. I get the feeling that its not the done thing?

   chromedome
Title: Re: Ever Disapointed?
Post by: Bunkerbarge on May 03, 2007, 11:20:08 am
I don't think there is a legal issue of naming anyone unless you are trying to affect thier business. 

As long as you are stating verifiable fact and not being deliberately defamatory I think it is reasonable to name and shame any trader who gives poor service or products.  Forums are one of the most effective tools that customers have nowadays to warn and protect buyers about such traders which has to be in the best interests of all concerned with the hobby, both the reputable sellers and the buying public.

I have no problem sharing both positive and negative experiences and I have done so on numerous occasions in the past.  The rogue traders deserve to be named and we all should be prepared to stand up and be counted when it comes to such things.

Interestingly enough I once purchased a wooden tool box that proved to be faulty a few months later as a result of poor workmanship and improperly seasoned wood.  When I complained I was given a load of bull and told to go away.  I wrote the whole story down and sent it to Model Boats Magazine and also to a model engineering magazine.  Model Boats published my letter and named the trader so they obviously didn't see any problem with it.

The model engineering magazine didn't as, surprisingly enough, the trader advertised in thier publication!!

As a result the trader eventually gave in and gave me a full refund.

I would name them every time.
Title: Re: Ever Disapointed?
Post by: tigertiger on May 03, 2007, 12:02:05 pm
Further to Bunkerbarge's comments.

If your problem was with one hull, stick to that.

The other offerings from this trader may be fair.
Title: Re: Ever Disapointed?
Post by: chromedome on May 03, 2007, 02:10:55 pm
Also.....I know a chap who loves his Lada car....poor build quality but.....

   Chromedome
Title: Re: Ever Disapointed?
Post by: cwmitch on May 03, 2007, 05:56:13 pm
I wish I never bothered with this post, All I did was ask a general
question and it seems it has been taken the wrong way, As I said
earlier I'm not after a name and shame.


I for one don't have the time to build a hull from scratch, My hull
suppliers are either WW11 Fleetscale or Modern Sirmar I've found
both very good, I've spoken at length To both Paul at Sirmar and
Peter at Fleetscale and the one thing they both have in common
is a passion for what they do!!!!

Colin......