Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Full Scale Ships => Topic started by: penfold on April 30, 2007, 07:59:50 pm
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hello i am new to this forum buisness so forgive me if this an old topic!!!! but if you go on google earth,over pompey harbour it is interesting to see some of our naval ships,i am sure there is (forgive my lack of knowledge) one of the newer trimarans in a birhting dock,also the ships further up towards i think fareham, are they mothballed or awaiting scrapping??? anyway as a ship modeller i found it quite interseting,, again be gentle on me i am new i have only just joined the new millenium and this forum
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Penfold,
Welcome the the Forum we look forward to hearing from you regularly.....
Roy
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Welcome Penfold to our forum.
Best way to visit Pompey is by Google Earth.
Hows Dangermouse? ;D
Sorry couldn't resist. Married into the Penfold clan myself.
Richard ;)
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I don't reckon much to the plans for that new stadium just south of where Warrior is berthed. At present it's possible to stand at the stern of Warrior and watch the ship movements in and around the entrance to the harbour. That 'monstrous carbuncle' they're planning would look horrible and spoil the views.
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Hear hear, agree whole heartily.
Richard ;) ;)
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I think the proposed stadium is a terrible idea. Quite apart from totally spoiling the historic Hard and its view there would be the prospect of zillions of football fans being decanted into the middle of the city's main tourist area at least every other Saturday. Not a good recipe for enjoying a family day out.
Also, no car parking is to be provided - to encourage use of public transport. But they are also including 1500 posh apartments in the development which will presumably be bought by people without cars.... ::)
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Alright for you then Colin ;D
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Wouldn't mind a weekend pad in the Gunwharf with harbour views. Sit on the balcony with a beer watching it all go by...
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thanks for welcoming aboard,weekend pad with that view sounds corking i can just imagine sat out there with a cold one, on a barmy summers evening.
i did not now about the footie stadium,its not built for that kind of traffic around there!!!!! not good
crumbs chief wot do we do now!!!!!
ps dangermouse is fine (semi retired in bournemouth,nice little letterbox by the sea!!!!)
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This seems like a good time to post a few more photos, sorry DickyD and Collin if you are familiar with these scenes!!!!
Holmsey
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Good god Holmsey that must be some bl**dy mast on that yacht to take those photies!! :o :o
Richard ;)
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With a glass floor!!!!!!!!!!!
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hello i am new to this forum buisness so forgive me if this an old topic!!!! but if you go on google earth,over pompey harbour it is interesting to see some of our naval ships,i am sure there is (forgive my lack of knowledge) one of the newer trimarans in a birhting dock,also the ships further up towards i think fareham, are they mothballed or awaiting scrapping??? anyway as a ship modeller i found it quite interseting,, again be gentle on me i am new i have only just joined the new millenium and this forum
Keep going with Google Earth. If you are very diligent you will find the same ships in different locations! I have found "Sir Bedivere" in at least 3 places at the same time. Not even RFAs are that fast. But keep looking around the world, some of the ships are fascinating, particularly the wrecks near Chernobyl and the "laid-up" USN Carrier fleet. Etc.etc.etc. BY
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sorry DickyD and Collin if you are familiar with these scenes!!!!
Yup! Been there, done that! I found I could get rid of the greenish tint from the glass by going into Photoshop Elements and resetting the auto balance.
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Nothing gets past you and your camera Holmsey ;D nice pics by the way ;)
I used to live in warsash before moving to whiteley had a nice little place right near the sea front good for spotting sunseekers
Jay
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I think the proposed stadium is a terrible idea. Quite apart from totally spoiling the historic Hard and its view there would be the prospect of zillions of football fans being decanted into the middle of the city's main tourist area at least every other Saturday. Not a good recipe for enjoying a family day out.
Also, no car parking is to be provided - to encourage use of public transport. But they are also including 1500 posh apartments in the development which will presumably be bought by people without cars.... ::)
MODERN Portsmouth is pretty crappy already...on a par with Wallsend. Both have much to offer but are hamstrung by the bloody beaurocrats.
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To go back to your original question: yes, the ships anchored higher up the harbour are for disposal. Someone more clued up on modern ships should be able to identify them.
The thing you have to bear in mind about Google Earth is that some of the images are quite old. The two old assault ships (Fearless and the other one) you can see in the inner harbour being stripped of anything useful have been there for ages. Are they still there, anyone?
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Photos redone to cut out the green!
Holmsey
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Great shots of the Warrior, I got married on her nine years ago.
As for a stadium I guess that would be designed by the same clown that came up with that bent tower eyesore that some idiot decided to stick in the middle of it all.
They want shooting.
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A couple more for you Bunkerbarge.
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Thanks Colin, she's a great ship and a superb place to get married.
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wow!!!!!!!!! thanks you lot out there,iam not always on the computer,so forgive slow response
love the photos i particulery like the views of the stills and west public house always have a pint in there!!! cracking photo of
hms vangaurd almost blocking the harbour just before her scrapping on the wall at the back,how do you get a photo on left by u name??? like i said iam a novice (try not to make it too compliocated ) cheers penfold
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Thanks lads,
Just what I need when I return home, pictures of WORK.
Bob
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You love it BOB! :D
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Now I know what is "wrong" with the pics!!
Not one PAS boat in sight.
Bob
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Colin, that list pic of the warrior that you have put on, it should be a painting, its beautiful picture 10/10 for that my mate
aye
john e
bluebird
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Thanks John, if they build a stadium there you won't be able to take pics like that anymore. Let's hope it never happens.
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Thanks John, if they build a stadium there you won't be able to take pics like that anymore. Let's hope it never happens.
I was down on the waterfront at Gosport at the weekend (big treat - lunch out - fish and chips watching the world go by !)heard lots of people pointing out where the stadium would be and what an eyesore if it is built. I don't think many ordinary people are in favour, but of course where big business is concerned, who gives a s--t about ordinary people. >:( >:(
MikeK
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Colin are your photos subject to copyright or can we print them off. ???
Richard ;)
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Print them off if you want for personal use. I can email the larger original files if you like! :)
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Yes please the one of Warrior [the dark one]
Richard ;)
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its changed alittle from them pics now, new building going up and so on :) me dads work shop is int he pics too lol ;D i get to sit in there and watch the ships go by tiss sweet, nice big "aircraft c" up there atm i think they are doing some kinda motorwork to it keeps on going out then in around the the forts kinda thing, sure would make a nice model :)
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Ahh! good old pompey, I do miss her, do you know which carrier it is please mate?
stu
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Sorry Spoons, the photos were taken a couple of years back. I didn't get close enough to see wich one it was.
Here is Illustious taken on 02/06/07
Holmsey
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You see that sponson sticking out the back at the stern. That's what brought down the mast on my Jaguar 25 yacht about thirteen years back. I got three points on my licence for that!
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Collin
If you get that close to a carrier in Portsmouth nowadays it's 7.62 rounds you'll be dodging, not sponsons!!!!!!!!!
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Quite right. Here's the illustration they did for the article I wrote for Practical Boat Owner afterwards. Well, I had to recover the insurance excess somehow...
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Yeah good times i spent 3 and half great years on board possibly one of my favorite ships then again all my ships were great except one but thats a different story. I believe they have now fitted a floating barrier of some sort around that jetty to stop civilian boaters getting to close. i remeber during the summer one year the yachter had a compeition to see who could get the closet in lasted for about a day until we put an armed sentry on the flightdeck.
stu
p.s great picture of her holmsey i love to see all pictures of her.
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There's a Police Launch on permanant patrol around the ships, I have not seen a barrier but I believe you get two warnings to turn away. We try not to tack too close to that side of the harbour. I will find some more pics for you later.
Holmsey
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Yes, three strikes and you're sunk! I seem to remember a line of small buoys extending out from just above Warrior's mooring on one occasion, obviously to act as an indication of where not to go.
And I suppose each ship has a sentry armed with an Ipod on duty at all times.... ;)
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Here are the other two I believe????
First one Invincible
Second Ark Royal
Please correct me if I am wrong!!!!! :)
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They are both invince mate you can tell by the fact the main mast dosnt have the jammer pods fitted around the top, where as ark and lusty do. Not a bad effort though, and that kind of info isnt really that helpful when coming back from a drunk night a shore trust me i made that mistake, went to the wrong an all.
stu
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Your right Stu, both pictures are of Invincible.
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Why thank you paul, it's nice to be right for once.
stu
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Hi Stu, I think the pictures were taken when she was being destored and cleaned before going into mothballs for ever and probably used as a target and also before the crane in the pictures fell on her.
Paul...
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I was in the north corner when that happened dosey clowns, trying to pick up a cherry picker. luckly the after walkway and the dockies tent stopped the flightdeck from getting damaged.
stu
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Top picture taken om 22/09/05
Bottom Picture taken on 25/07/04
Holmsey
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The one from Sptember O5 will be the destoring one then, funny how that barge is in exactly the same position though a year apart? Looking at the back grounds, the weather conditions are the same, the crane has moved from one end to the other and it looks like a boat trip, going out around the harbour and then comming back in again? Doesn't take long to take one of those tents down either?
Paul...
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In Sept 2003 Invincible was covered in plastic sheets and tents. We left the mooring off Rat Island and my mate on the bow shouts Sh*te. My mate helming thought he said sh*t meaning weed in the water and ignored him. Two seconds later no engine. We drifted onto the fuel pontoon and found a big piece of plastic SHEET around the prop. Matches the missing bit over one of the hull openings on Invincible!!!!!!!!!
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;D Thats what ya get when ya mix real boats with toy ones!
That used to happen all the time in Pompey and Guz!
I hope your donk survived the stall! ;)
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The chances are that she is either fuel up or down as there is a fuel point in that berthing bay, and its where the tankies hang out.
stu
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I know mate, I remember it well, always good to hide there!.
Paul...
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Here's another one for you:
Cardiff rearming off The Hardway may 2002
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Remenber her well, went out the Gulf on another ship with her in 84, shame she's been binned off now too, do we have a navy now or what?
Not enough, me thinks!
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Good old D108, i served on her as the diesel killick and took her into retirement she was a very old girl but she was alright sadly it was the crew who brought her down. She was due a good refit but they payed her off instead, good ship lots of hard work.
stu
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Just to annoy you Paul (PSSHIP) the Federal Government over here, has just announced it will be building six new Destroyers, in South Australia and Newcastle for the Aussie Navy to play with...
Roy
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I know, I heard from the MEO on HMAS Sydney the other day, he says they are based on the Burke class. Might make a nice model.
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The one big advantage our lot have is that they will actually all be built, unlike your lot who appear to be better at selling them off, sorry couldn't resist......... ;D ;D
Roy
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Hi Roy, yes I fully agree, it is getting stupid now, NATO are complaining to the UK as a member of NATO that we are in breach of treaty by being under strength in all our forces, I just need to know as almost everyone in the UK needs to know, where the bloddy hell is all the tax money going?
For an island nation we no longer have capable defences in ALL aspects.
Paul..
PS, To anyone who wants, invade, now may be good and all that?
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Isnt there a webcam link available for the entrance to Pompey Harbour?
First Sea Lord starting to talk up a 31 frigate Navy again.
The "new" carriers will need a full battle group for support.
1 carrier out whole of the RN in her battle group!!
But with cost of Type 45's dont see it
Bob
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Here's one Bob http://www.harboureye.co.uk/
I think it was pretty obvious that the Navy would secure the carriers first and then use the "protect our investment" argument.
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Plus the Naval Base Review slipped to the right, theres a surprise!!!
Bob
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Three more sad ships awaiting their fate!
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AH The mighty Cardiff, Newcastle and Glasgow what a waste :'(
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How many mayhemmers would it take to save one from the land of scrap???
Jay
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In all seriousnes they are close to the end of their lifespans, but, what are the powers that be replacing them with I ask? NOTHING! Or if some 45s, NOT ENOUGH!
It always saddens me this stuff, we tried everything to save Plymouth and Bronnington, they are still in Birkenhead in a very sorry state and it looks like Bronnington has had it now. The rhumor is, Plymouth is for the torch too!
It makes me wonder and begs the question, why save Whimbrel and pay all that money to get her lifted back from Egypt, when they could have saved others, what we need is one big museum in the middle of the country with a dozen or so ships/ boats of grey funnel vintage plus other attractions there, say a bit of RAF and Army stuff. Now wouldn't that be a museum and a half? Come on Gordon Brown, sort it out, I say? :P
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I for one would pay the entrance fee to see such attractions aswell.
we all see in the papers and news of such ships but just how many people have seen one CLOSE UP not many i say, what better way to teach history then using real history itself.
Jay
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They are both invince mate you can tell by the fact the main mast dosnt have the jammer pods fitted around the top, where as ark and lusty do. Not a bad effort though, and that kind of info isnt really that helpful when coming back from a drunk night a shore trust me i made that mistake, went to the wrong an all.
stu
I got a photo of Ark Royal to make up the set today!!!
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That's Ark my man! I've got an oppo on there!
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HMS Clyde was there as well
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Sorry to go slightly off topic, but is there a model show of some sort coming up at the Dockyard ? I've been away a few weeks and my son mentioned that he had read something in the local paper, which of course he promptly threw away !! I thought if anyone will know it will be you gentlemen ;) BTW I see the HMS Westminster has joined the Clyde alongside yesterday when I was down to Gosport for my fish and chip treat - but I didn't have my camera - sod's law 1
MikeK
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Here you go Mike
Model Boat Weekend
Aug 04 2007 - Aug 05 2007
Model boats from the days of the nineteenth century West African Squadron to the Falklands Conflict in 1982. Exhibition and displays on the Mast Pond in the Historic Dockyard.
10am - 4.30pm
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Thanks for that DickyD, must mark it on the calender for a trip over the water.
MikeK
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There is an advert in August Model Boats which I received today.
I am doing a piece on the Dockyard for Model Boats at the suggestion of Paul Freshney emphasising it from a modelling interest viewpoint. I have already taken pics in the Naval Museum and have been invited by the dockyard to"access all areas" on 4th August to coincide with the modelling weekend.
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BTW I see the HMS Westminster has joined the Clyde alongside yesterday when I was down to Gosport for my fish and chip treat - but I didn't have my camera - sod's law 1
MikeK
Any excuse to post a picture!!!!!
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From that angle, she looks good as a three mast ship of the line doesn't she ;D ;D
MikeK
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I was down there Friday doing my pec vist, the bow you can see is of a French survey type that came in with two others for a weekend break
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In all seriousnes they are close to the end of their lifespans, but, what are the powers that be replacing them with I ask? NOTHING! Or if some 45s, NOT ENOUGH!
It always saddens me this stuff, we tried everything to save Plymouth and Bronnington, they are still in Birkenhead in a very sorry state and it looks like Bronnington has had it now. The rhumor is, Plymouth is for the torch too!
It makes me wonder and begs the question, why save Whimbrel and pay all that money to get her lifted back from Egypt, when they could have saved others, what we need is one big museum in the middle of the country with a dozen or so ships/ boats of grey funnel vintage plus other attractions there, say a bit of RAF and Army stuff. Now wouldn't that be a museum and a half? Come on Gordon Brown, sort it out, I say? :P
Good idea. Where would you put it? Wanting to put it in the middle of the country could make it difficult for the Navy! (only joking). But in all seriousness ...we Do have a lot of Military museums around the country. But we are also a small country. It's OK for the USA to have these things scattered all over the place, but look at the amount of real estate they can play with. I (personally) think that siting (eg) Warrior, Victory etc. and the the newish Chatham thing is a mistake. To gather everything on the South Coast is really quite inept....there are millions of British people North of the South Coast, and only foreigners south of it. Liverpool could have become a beacon of maritime and military heritage...but somebody blew it. Could have been great. But, alas.
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I was down at Gosport front on Saturday in time to see the South African 'stealth' type frigate sail out. Don't know any more about her, but there were quite a few blokes armed with fancy cameras taking pictures and the thought crossed my mind that one of them could be a fellow Mayhemmer and a photo might be on here shortly. As usual I was armed only (?) with SWSBO so no pics forthcoming from me.
Anyone else there ??
MikeK
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Terrible news!
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=HarEgLd2n7k
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Very realistic, until the ferry smashing part, unfortunately in this day and age it is not beyond the realms of reality :-[
MikeK
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sorry DickyD and Collin if you are familiar with these scenes!!!!
Yup! Been there, done that! I found I could get rid of the greenish tint from the glass by going into Photoshop Elements and resetting the auto balance.
were those from the new spinaker tower thingie?
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In all seriousnes they are close to the end of their lifespans, but, what are the powers that be replacing them with I ask? NOTHING! Or if some 45s, NOT ENOUGH!
It always saddens me this stuff, we tried everything to save Plymouth and Bronnington, they are still in Birkenhead in a very sorry state and it looks like Bronnington has had it now. The rhumor is, Plymouth is for the torch too!
It makes me wonder and begs the question, why save Whimbrel and pay all that money to get her lifted back from Egypt, when they could have saved others, what we need is one big museum in the middle of the country with a dozen or so ships/ boats of grey funnel vintage plus other attractions there, say a bit of RAF and Army stuff. Now wouldn't that be a museum and a half? Come on Gordon Brown, sort it out, I say? :P
if they cut up the Plymmy its an act of sacrilage for those who fought in the falklands war on both sides! that ship is as I see it, the only memorial to the war in the uk. SOMEONE SHOULD BE HUNG BY THE BALLS ON THE YARDARM OF VICTORY
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Can anyone enlighten me as to which ship this is, we took this during a tour of Portsmouth Harbour.
Thanks
Daryl
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the ship is hms maidstone
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The Ship is "Rame Head" and is used by the SAS and SBS for training purposes.
LB
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And soon to be no more, one of the Sir class ships is being refitted in Falmouth, then being moved to Portland for that role.
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thanks for letting me know
Daryl
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Here are a couple of pairs!!!!!
Manchester and Edinburgh
Illustrious and Ark Royal
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It seems like there are a lot of ships in at the moment, surely they cant all be in maintenace can they????????
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Can't afford the fuel to send them to sea.
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Down at Gosport front last Saturday and the good lady remarked on the very big navy ship. Didn't catch on at first then realized and had to explain to her it was actually two aircraft carriers next door to each other !
MikeK
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Holmsey' photo above looks to have been taken from around the same spot and in her defence, if you know as much about ships as she does, it could be one long ship, I suppose :D
MikeK
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Very mundane but the lighting's good
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Took this a couple of weeks ago - not in Pompey Harbour but you can just see the Spinnaker Tower in the distance.
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Here is another view for you guys, Invinceable last home coming before paying of. Also when there were such things as Sub flotillas based at Portsmouth.
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Do you all really think it is just the price of fuel keeping the ships in harbour? Ship maintenance and training all have to be done. The crews have to be paid, weaponry has to be maintained, aircraft have to fly even if it is only to keep the aircrews "up to date".
I believe that the "run-down" of the RN is really quite deliberate and will be used as an excuse for an integration into a Euro-Force.
We have already seen the "Mayhem" resulting from Devolution, but where will it end. This is all Political and nothing whatsoever to do with what I believe is the prime role of Government.....the defence of the realm and its inhabitants. I am NOT a member of the National Front, just a concerned citizen.
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I'd agree with you on that Bryan. There seems to be no political commitment to the Navy. As an example, I have it on very good authority that to save money the training of naval officers on the subject of radar has been reduced from 30 sessions to 4. heaven help us if we are attacked!
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It was my impression the the role of the Royal Navy was to transport the thirst and sex organs of its "Club" from continent to continent.
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Good joke Banjo, but the rundown of the Navy is becoming pretty alarming - especially with Russia flexing its muscles. You can't build a navy, or indeed any branch of the Forces overnight so allowing them to be run down the way they are is culpable action on the part of the Government in my view.
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I have very little regard for the modern RN for various reasons, but I would argue that their role in the modern world is quite valuable to the well-being of the United Kingdom (not just England). They...and the RFA...seem to be doing a tremendous job in helping out the USA with the anti-drug smuggling operations off the US coasts. But is that really what a "blue water" navy is for?
Conversely, whenever there has been a "natural" disaster in almost any place in the world there has been an RN/RFA presence to help out. This facility is being removed quite rapidly with the logical conclusion being that those we used to help will no longer be able to thank the UK for assistance. Thus loss of potential good-will. It's all very well having a superb underwater Navy, but being invisible does not win hearts and minds. Which brings me to the subject of the "new" carriers. Do you really think they are going to happen? What does a "full-scale" carrier need? Well, not being nuclear, it(they) will need a fleet train of replenishment ships for a start. How many have we got? The main replenishment ships also need replenishing....by what? The carriers themselves need protection by frigates/destroyers/cruisers whatever...where are they? The carriers will need a crew of at least 600 people so double that for crew leave/training rotation etc. 2 carriers. That means 4x600 =2400 personnel for the carriers alone. (not counting any shore staff). Given that the average age of a naval "seafarer" is about 26, what size town will be denuded of young people just to man these things. I reckon "those who govern us" will pull the plug (as Wilson did) after spending countless £billions and we will be left with no Navy. Thats my opinion anyway. BY.
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I agree with most of what you say Bryan. However, as with the "Through Deck Cruisers" I think the RN have a cunning plan. They will get the carriers built by sacrificing the older obsolete ships like the type 42s then they will turn around to the Government and say "we have these valuable assets but they need to be properly protected like the US task Groups with a SSN plus surface escorts (Darings)" So there will be little option but to enhance the escort capability. I'm not sure of the crew requirements for the new carriers but the Darings are very "crew efficient" compared with earlier ships.
The big problem with the carriers seems to be the air wings. The US are still insisting on Lockheed maintaining the Joint Strike Fighter which is considered to be unacceptable by the RN. I'm told that the French Rafaele is being considered as an alternative, especially as France seems keen to build a similar carrier to ours following the rather lacklustre performance of Charles de Gaulle.
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The First one of the Type 23's sold to Chilean Navy sailed today.
I have a few pics on my phone as I was in today.
I will post as soon as I download them.
Bob
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The US are still insisting on Lockheed maintaining the Joint Strike Fighter which is considered to be unacceptable by the RN. I'm told that the French Rafaele is being considered as an alternative, especially as France seems keen to build a similar carrier to ours following the rather lacklustre performance of Charles de Gaulle.
Hi Colin
Locheed were never going to maitnain them Colin. The problem was that if britain wanted to adapt/alter the aircraft they had to get the permision of the US and it had to be done by the US. this has now been Ironed out and britain will be allowed to upgrade as they like with out
getting the US to agree. The RAF will now be getting these aircraft
The problem for the aircraft for the carriers is the french.
the design is for three carriers 2 brittish 1 french. the naval JSF aircraft destined for carrier use will be used like the Aegis system on the
US warships both the ship and aircraft systems completly intregrated and each can be accessed from the other. This means that if a pilot is on a mission to attack a target then a priority mission comes in the ship can automaticaly upload them new mission including maps/ attack runs etc with out the pilot having to get to bogged down trying to re-calculate the new mission it will already be done for them, the weapons can even be fired back at the ship like a UAV. The US do not want any chance of the french getting their hands on this technology incase they sell to the highest bidder (not like them) until this is sorted then the back up is to navalise the Typhoon.
I would be very surprised if the bought the french rafale. After all it was mostly design by us when france were a part of the euro fighter project then pulled out taking all the designs and info with them and then they produced the Rafale.
Colin
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Thanks for the correction and more details Colin. My source was somebody in the Dartmouth Naval College but I might have misunderstood the distinction between maintenance and upgrading. I can appreciate the US not wanting France to get their hands on the JSF technology. I would imagine that there's some playing politics been going on re the Rafaele.
Are the French definitely going ahead with their carrier do you know?
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The French are doing what they are best at.....not making a decision
the position they hold is that they are going to wait until the 1st is finally
designed and being built then they will decide if they want one.