Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Navy - Military - Battleships: => Topic started by: goBulawayo on October 21, 2012, 12:32:38 pm
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Right so my original thread has disappeared so time for a new one
I recently acquired a built but damaged ARk/Hooben Perkasa in 1/32 scale. I have stripped off all the deck fittings and so far have resprayed the deck and put back together a few of the fittings. Nothing has been re-fitted to the hull as yet because the rudders were not working. I have now removed these and whoever built the boat fixed the servo arms onto the rudder post with glue, which ran down into the rudder tube, no wonder they would not work. I have ordered a pair of brass rudders off the web, which I will fit a little further from the transom so that I can get the mechanism to operate two rudders from one servo working.
Came with two 545 or thereabouts motors, both run though there appears to be a slight kink in one of the prop shafts. I will also need to acquire new props sometime as the ones on the boat are plastic, but they may work perfectly well?
I seem to be missing a few bits, one being 3 round covers that fit on the exhaust, I have three but it looks like I need 6 - The etched brass supports for the torpedoes are damaged so not too sure what I will do about these and I think I can rescue 3 out of 4 torpedoes. The railing was etched brass stanchions with string/thread, but these were a bit wobbly and buckled, i think i will leave the railing till I can afford some solid stanchions.
Any guidance regarding rebuilding this will be greatly appreciated - I am planning on getting one of these ESCs
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/260689007619?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/260689007619?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649)
Not sure what battery as yet, I am told the motors are probably 12v, so I guess I may go for 11v lipo.
As acquired
(http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm223/gubulawayo/IMG_9276.jpg)
(http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm223/gubulawayo/IMG_9278.jpg)
(http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm223/gubulawayo/IMG_9279.jpg)
(http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm223/gubulawayo/IMG_9285.jpg)
(http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm223/gubulawayo/IMG_9282.jpg)
(http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm223/gubulawayo/IMG_9283.jpg)
Deck stripped and resprayed, I know its a bit dark but I am using what I have to save money, I have since sprayed the small bit of deck around the engine cover
(http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm223/gubulawayo/IMG_9306.jpg)
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If I remember correctly mine came with 2 x 550 motors and I fitted fast scale props.
The ESC you are looking at has a high failure rate at well below the quoted current draw.
Bob
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If I remember correctly mine came with 2 x 550 motors and I fitted fast scale props.
The ESC you are looking at has a high failure rate at well below the quoted current draw.
Bob
Thanks Bob, what size props did you fit? I reckon i will have to replace the prop shafts as the plastic props appear to have been glued to the shaft- I hoped to use the tubes already fitted so guess a piece of rod the same length and size of the ones I have will do? I assume the first two numbers of the fast scale code are the prop diameter? ie FS/6015/3/LH/BR is 60mm dia? What does the 3 stand for, shaft dia?
Might you be able to suggest a better, but affordable ESC please?
Thanks
Wayne
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I used prop shop 35mm did 3 blade props on 4mm shafts.
I used 8.4 volt NiCads (it was a while ago) and she flew.
I used 1 battery pack to 1 ESC to each motor but if using a single ESC I would use at least a 40 amp if using 2 x 550's.
Bob
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If money is tight there is 1 way to get her up and running cheaply but there will be howls of protest.
To get models fast you need a current hungry motor, this in turn needs a large capacity ESC.
On a fast model most of the control is at full throttle so why do you need such mid range shaft control.
If you go for a mechanical Speed Controller at about £10-00 shye will run fine.
They can be sourced now and again on ebay cheaply.
This will need a servo to operate and a receiver pack.
I have 1 as a trials board for my models and have used for years without problem.
The capacitor can get hot if mid range used, but most fast boats use full throttle which does not use the capacitor so it doesnt get hot.
Bob
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Thanks Bob, would the mechanical speed controller be something like this?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KYOSHO-MECHANICAL-SPEED-CONTROLLER-AND-SERVO-/271082731743?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item3f1dca38df (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KYOSHO-MECHANICAL-SPEED-CONTROLLER-AND-SERVO-/271082731743?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item3f1dca38df)
Wayne
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Certainly is.
Bob
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This Esc will do the two motors and are relatively cheap.
I have several. There is no setting up just plug and go'
JP Marine Brushed Speed Controller 50A With Reverse
Marine Water Proof 50A Brushed Speed Controller with Low Power Reverse
Continuous Current - 50A Forward (20A Reverse)
Maximum Current - 70A Burst
Voltage - 7.2v to 12v (6-10 cells)
BEC - 5v/1A Max
Size - 42 x 47 x 13mm
Weight - 85g with wires
Heat Sink - Yes
Price: £27.49 (Including VAT at 20%)
http://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/esc.html
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Thanks DickyD
Looks like I will need to save up a bit. Whilst the mechanical speed controller is quite affordable, it will be nice to have slow speed use esp around our club 'harbour' - so I guess this ESC is the one I will go for.
Wayne
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Hi, I think there are only 3 covers for the turbine exhausts (which is what they are). I have the Tamiya 1/72 kit and there are only three. Appears they are stored (when the vessel is in operation) on the ledge/shelf directly abaft the turbine outlets on the transom.
The kit props look fine and hopefully they will propel the boat upon a plane if you can spin them fast enough. Otherwise replace them.
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Thanks Harquebus - Some model pics I found show six covers, but it makes sense that they would be stored on the transom ledge (which I will refit later) whilst the boat is operating. Will wait and see how the kit props perform, I guess the kit makers must have tested them!
Wayne
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If using that ESC I would ensure that it is fused and realise that astern power and speed is reduced.
I would fuse at 30 amps.
If you are using the supplied motors I would use a smaller prop as they need revs.
Sorry Dicky I am not impressed with the ESC's, had 1 and gave it away.
Bob
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If using that ESC I would ensure that it is fused and realise that astern power and speed is reduced.
I would fuse at 30 amps.
If you are using the supplied motors I would use a smaller prop as they need revs.
Sorry Dicky I am not impressed with the ESC's, had 1 and gave it away.
Bob
I have four Bob and have had no trouble.(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p8/DickyD_photos/Smileys/thinking1.gif)
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I know you have Dicky but none in a heavy consumption motor like a 550. Then of course double it as 2 motors fitted.
Dave ran his in his flower corvette, he disliked his for the astern response so gave his away too.
It is very much horses for courses. I would be very surprised if the ESC can take the described current just on the cable size alone.
12 volts x 50 Amps (continuous) is 600 watts or if you like 10 x 60 watt light bulbs.
Bob
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John bluebird has one running a hot 550 on 8.4 volts in his Swordsman and thinks its great.(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p8/DickyD_photos/Smileys/emoticon_right.gif)
I also have one running two motors in my Scheutze.
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Hi All, I am trying to make the radar on my Perkasa operate, now I want to do this as inexpensively as possible so I took out a mini servo and removed the top cog, I then fitted ali tubing to the remaining cog, this will then fit through the roof and radar support and be connected to the radar panel itself. Anyway when I connected the servo to the Rx, it ran constantly, so I then cut off the servo plug and connected it up to my 6v battery pack, not all it does it briefly rotate on connecting the wires and then stops - Any thoughts as to why it is not operating continuously please. I wanted to try connecting it to a 1.5 battery with its own switch
Thanks
Wayne
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Found a suitable radar motor on another site and the guy who sourced it provided an operation video. It's about the size of a cigarette butt and is geared, all very nice and compact:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44dQVDOMAWE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44dQVDOMAWE)
http://www.goldmine-elec-products.com/prodinfo.asp?number=G16300
(http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/1/5/8/9/4/2/a5007280-4-DSCF7297.jpg)
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ACTion does one for £ 7.50
http://www.action-electronics.co.uk/pdfs/M7G.pdf (http://www.action-electronics.co.uk/pdfs/M7G.pdf)
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p8/DickyD_photos/Smileys/tumb.gif)
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Super thanks guys, that slimline one is really nice. I managed to get the servo motor running after I pulled off the electronic board and connect wires straight to the motor. It is a bit fast but until i can spare some cash for the slimline one it will have to do.
Wayne
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Nah, cheaper is better as servos can be had for $2 (USD) or less. :-))
Have you tried lowering the voltage to slow it down like in the vid?
I keep forgetting to check what ACTion has in stock as they seem to have an electronic gizmo for every need. I had to use a currency converter and found out that $11.95 is cheaper than £ 7.50, minus shipping and handling of course...
Do I win? O0
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Have you tried lowering the voltage to slow it down like in the vid?
I will try, I used one of those flat batteries for calculators etc and did not realise it's actually 3V - I will put a resistor into the wiring to bring it down. Now to figure out what sort of resistor I need as I know nothing about these things
Wayne
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I found a diode on an old circuit board and it has reduced the rotation a bit, looks better though it could still be slower. Once I have purchased esc and batteries I will look at getting a better motor for the radar. Currently making stanchions from 1.5mm brass tube, drilled for the handrails - Is taking a bit of time to make them but so far managed 7 over two nights, only another 15 to go, then 6 A frame stanchions
Wayne
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I wish I could help you with the technical side of that issue but I am somewhat of a novice on DIY.
I wonder what the RPM of a typical radar array is? What I am seeing via web search is something along the lines of 24, 36, 48 rpm on the newer stuff (it's automatically variable based on the appropriate pulse length). I think 30 rpm is about right. They don't rotate very fast at all...
Good article on constructing a rotation mechanism for radars: http://www.rktman.com/rlh/tips/building/radar.html (http://www.rktman.com/rlh/tips/building/radar.html)
I am enjoying your efforts. I will eventually assemble the Tamiya 1/72 version which is no slouch in the size department. I intend to make the radar rotate as well. :-))
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new couplings arrived today and they make a difference to the solid ones that were on the boat before. Thing is the new coupling is a lot longer and it has pushed the prop back about 3/4" - Will this be a problem? I suppose I could just cut the prop shaft to the right length?
Thanks
Wayne
(http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm223/gubulawayo/IMG_9526.jpg)
(http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm223/gubulawayo/IMG_9530.jpg)
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May I suggest adding a washer and a lock nut where the shaft exit's the tube at the coupling end.
You may find an influx of water otherwise.
regards
Ken
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If youre going to cut the shaft down, just be careful you dont bend it any more. I got one of these a couple of years ago, its just about finished now. Had the same problems, motors totally detached and shafts bent, torpedo racks totally wrecked. I have replaced them with some nice 3rd party racks and torpedos. I have also replaced the props with a nice brass pair George Sitek made for me using the old ones as a template. This is certainly a cheaper way of getting one of these rather than buying an unbroken one!
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May I suggest adding a washer and a lock nut where the shaft exit's the tube at the coupling end.
You may find an influx of water otherwise.
Hi Ken, I would if the shaft was threaded but it is not and I don't have the facilities to cut thread onto them - I am hoping that the use of grease will help keep the water out.
Wayne
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Thanks sailorboy61, I do hope it comes out cheaper than an unbroken one -
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In that case then I would suggest you mount the coupling close to the end of the tube (with a washer in between).
If you don't have the ease of this then fit some spacers in the gap. It does limit your ability to adjust the gap to a snug fit however but it will stop the shaft moving in and out and drawing up water, which it will do between forward and reverse thrusts.
Hope this helps and you don't mind my observations. :}
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Thanks Ken, always happy to get help and observations - I will have to fit spacers, what stops the water just coming out between the end of the tube and the spacer? I mean I can't make it super tight or the shaft would not turn? Do you by any chance have a photo of spacers or the nut and washer on a model please?
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A couple of thick washers covered in grease will suffice. Use the coupler as a final adjustment by sliding it up a bit.
Yes, your right not to over tighten it. As long it turns smoothly with the fingers then that should OK.
ken
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Anyone have photos illustrating washers and lock nuts on a similar shaft setup? goBulawayo: Why would the shaft need to be threaded? Just trim the length from the motor end.
I'd always assumed a well-lubed stuffing box and one that is close-fitting would be enough to prevent water ingress.
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Here is a close up of one of my connections to the propeller. It shows the washer and nuts and the close proximity of the coupling to hold the whole thing together.
Close fitting is the way to go .
Hope this helps.
ken
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Thanks Ken
On another subject, my esc has a connector for the battery that has a square and a round socket, what is this connector called please, I need to get a battery with the same type of socket
I was also thinking that I might try a 12v motorcycle type battery, as these are rechargeable and it would help with ballast, how would I connect the wiring to the battery? I assume using the motorcycle connectors would work, then run the cable to a socket for the connector on the ESC?
Thanks
Wayne
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A Tamiya plug. The Esc does not plug directly into the battery as usually there is a fuse in between.
I think you are going to have to make the wire joins yourself to suit the situation. If it's a lead acid battery then you'll need spade terminals. Other batteries can be Tamiya type connectors or the favourite (on here) Deans plugs for better current capacity.
Best to show us some pictures before you start cutting wires, however. :}
ken
ken
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Thanks Ken, what would this fuse look like? Any chance of a link to one please - I just had a look at Component Shop and they have 12v sealed lead acid batterys, I think I will buy one of these, probably this one http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/360478506536?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/360478506536?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649) .
Am I right in thinking that I will then have my ESC with its tamiya fitting, which will fit into the fuse, I will then need to buy a female tamiya socket to connect the fuse to the wires running to the battery, which will connect to the battery via the spade fittings?
Regards
Wayne
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I have just realised that the props on my perkasa are handed, can I make each motor turn in a different direction using only one ESC? Any guidance on wiring them up would be greatly appreciated
Wayne
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Fuses and switches
http://www.action-electronics.co.uk/stuff2.php (http://www.action-electronics.co.uk/stuff2.php)
You cannot run two 540 motors on one Speed control unit. they would take excessive amps.
To change the rotation of the motor just reverse the wiring to the terminals.
The battery you show will not have the amps you're going to need. Go for a 7 amp/hour and you might get half an hour drive time.
Hope this helps
Ken
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Thanks Ken, would the fact I am testing with one ESC (a 25A Mtroniks flysonic 70) be why the motors seem to run rather slowly on a 6v battery or is that just because I am testing with 6v?
I see component-shop have a 7.5Ah battery which fits the 7Ah you mentioned, they also have a 20Ah one but its a bit pricey for me
Wayne
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I would test the bouyancy in the bath first and add weights until you come down to the water line. That way, you'll know how heavy the battery can be. :}
The speed is governed by the voltage. A 25 amp Esc might work two motors OK. Don't forget a 20 amp fuse from the battery to the ESC !
Ken
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please dont bother using a gell cell batt you would be far better off running 2 x12 minh stick packs in it,reason why I suggest this is simple,the stick packs are lighter and will defo give you a longer running time
Dave
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So after burning out my esc :((, I am waiting for another to arrive. In the meantime a member of our club kindly gave me a mechanical speed controller and I have now set this up - Roll on our next visit to the lake, sometime in the new year.
Wayne
(http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm223/gubulawayo/IMG_9577_zpsab5cefbb.jpg)
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If the mechanical speed controller works why not keep that type.
The fast patrol boats tend to be used flat out most of the time so the losses from the speed controller are very low.
Bob
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Hi Bob, I probably will keep it, saves having to change things inside the boat. I have ordered an esc and I will put it aside for a future build. Mmm now what could I use it in!! I think I should concentrate on my yachts for now and worry about another motor boat later.
Wayne
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Hi guys, got the boat into the pond the other day, it runs sort of OK but I think my motors are a slow speed type - Problem I am having is the boat won't turn, the servo works, seems to pull a little further one way that the other but there is not a lot of turn in the rudder.. The boat turns slightly in the one direction but pretty much stays going forward the other way. I do wonder though, the rudders are forward of the props, could this be a problem? I will get a photo of the rudders up as soon as I can.
Thanks
Wayne
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the rudders are forward of the props, could this be a problem?
Wayne
??? The props should be in front of the rudders, methinks. :o
Ken
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I will have to see what I can do, I moved the rudders forward to give room for the control horns, I will have to look at cutting back the prop shafts
Wayne
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You will be looking for sort of set up.
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you can see mine are way forward, though even in the original holes, they would not have been behind the props, even with the props back against the A frames
Wayne
(http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm223/gubulawayo/Perkasa_zps0835cb54.jpg)
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You should find the rudders can be as near to the stern as the thickness of the clamp on the top of the shaft. You may be able to get as close as 15mm from the stern. Ensure they are in line with the shafts when you drill the holes
Also there seems to be plenty of prop tube shaft to allow for cutting back (at the coupler end) as you want to preserve the thread on the propeller. You may have to move the A frames inwards to match.
Hope this helps
Happy new year
ken
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Thanks Ken, I will have to look for new control horns as they need teh space they have at present, will get a pic up tomorrow
Cheers
wayne
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Wayne,
Bad news I am afraid, it looks like the shafts and rudders will have to be removed and re-aligned.
Then faster motors fitted.
With those props you will need about 9000 rpm to get her going as your model is quite heavy.
The good part is 2 x 550 motors should only cost about £7-99 each and everything else is free apart from glue and paint.
If you want to take her further lighter batteries eg MiNims would help but one step at a time.
Bob
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Thanks Shipmate60
So here is a pic of my rudder set up, you can see whay I moved the rudders forward. So does anyone know where I can get rudder control arms with the arms at 90 degrees to each other? They would need to be able to fit the 6mm brass rudder post.
Thanks, Wayne
(http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm223/gubulawayo/DSCF2204_zps13de73de.jpg)
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Ah !! I can see now.
What you need is 2 single arm levers on the same shaft, at 90 degrees. It would mean you need a longer protruding rudder shaft from the tube, but there's not much in it, if you sand the clamp sections thinner. :-)) of course , you only need a single one on the other shaft
Cheers
ken
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Right, I got it - off to the workshop
Wayne
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Like these;
http://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/tiller-arms.html (http://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/tiller-arms.html)
Bob
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Hey that's great Bob. Didn't know they did those. :-))
Ken
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Great thanks Bob, for now I will try Ken's two single arms as I have enough bits here.
Wayne
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I'm not 100% certain, but I can check tomorrow when I get home, I think your a frames are on backwards, they should angle the other way, moving the props forwards. Also, what happened to the standard rudders that come with the hooben kit? From memory they are a lot smaller.
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Thanks bikerdude999, the boat came to me as is, I look forward to hearing if they are on backwards. The original rudders and shafts were knackered all glued up, so I replaced them, they are a bit smaller I know but I thought the larger ones would help in turns.
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Had a look at the A frame (not that it has two legs) but it does not look reversible. I have cut the shafts down, will give the boat a try tomorrow
Wayne
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If I'm not mistaken, that rudder setup works very well... but only at high speed. All sources seem to indicate that the rudders sit more or less astride the props on the Perkasa. According to the Tamiya kit, at least, the twin props are situated on either side of the center prop and slightly aft of it. The outer props flank the rudders.
I always thought one wanted the prop wash to act directly on the rudders for best performance... %) {:-{
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Harquebus,
Interesting comments.
Yes as you say, had a look on the web and there is a build log see below with the rudders and props as you mention
http://www.vosper-perkasa.com/blog/build-log/vosper-perkasa-p150-132-scale-radio-control-rc-model-build-log-part-11/ (http://www.vosper-perkasa.com/blog/build-log/vosper-perkasa-p150-132-scale-radio-control-rc-model-build-log-part-11/)
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This may be why Wayne's props were so long in the first place.
I shall be watching the water test with interest as mine has not yet been launched.
Ken
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My props stuck out further because I change the coupling which is longer than the one used originally. I have now cut the shaft and the prop is now against the support. I hope to try it in the pond just now
Wayne
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Having the props against the shaft struts (supports) should help some. It is amazing to me that the props and rudders are configured this way (props placed far aft and the rudders in between instead of directly aft of the props); I'm fairly certain the model RAAArtyGunner showed and the Tamiya kit are authentic to the original boat and are showing how they are configured in real life but it is strange.
I imagine low speed or dockside maneuvering is an absolute beastly chore... but one has to remember the original boat allows independent control of each engine/prop so that sort of negates what I just said. If you've not considered it already, why not go for a 4-channel setup and dual speed controls so you can control both motors?
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I suppose the limitations of the original design, to include space limitations in the hull resulting from the size and bulk of the gas turbines happened to force the placement of the props at the extreme end of the hull and left little room for the rudders.
Or, conversely, I am missing some information about the design being purpose-built for creating some kind of newfangled (at the time) hydrodynamic efficiency or just conducive to extreme high-speed operation. I suppose I could research that but I'm too lazy. :-)
I've compared it to other fast attack craft and I don't see any hint of imitation or copy-catting the Vosper's prop/rudder setup. Just food for thought.
Also, goBulawayo, the green you chose for the deck color is spot-on in my estimation. The original green was too bright. :-))
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Hi Harquebus
I wish I could afford a 4 channel radio but budget does not allow for one. I have moved the rudders back to where they should be and the boat now turns but not very sharply, it has a rather large turning circle - how to I make the servo rotate more? It only moves about 20 odd degrees. I suppose I could put a longer control arm onto it which would give more movement at the rudder end?
Wayne
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ITs not so much a case of getting more 'turn' on the servo arm. You may get more rudder throw by adjusting the control rod and this may be as much as up to 60 degrees although be careful as too much and it can go over on itself. To get the maximum thro put the control rod on the outermost hole on the servo arm and the other end on the inner most hole of the tiller arm. (its early in the morning after too many beers last night so apologies if I have that the wrong way round.) Try that.
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Agreed. Do what mikearace said. You have to get maximum throw out of your servo/rudder linkage. Make sure they have the same throw in both directions.
I was wondering about the clearance you have for your rudders; they don't hit the prop struts do they? Doesn't appear to be much room there.
I know you may be thinking "spare no expense" in this Perkasa endeavor of yours (and spending money on quality items when the funds roll in) but as for me, I'm cheap. Going to buy one of these soon, perhaps two: HobbyKing 2.4 GHz Tx & Rx (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__8338__Hobby_King_2_4Ghz_4Ch_Tx_Rx_V2_Mode_2_.html) I've not done much shopping but if these are on the extreme inexpensive side of things (i.e., cheap and somewhat disposable), then there are other transmitters a little more upscale and so on, and so on. But I've heard good reviews of these radios. They're basic, no frills models but I don't need much in the way of frills meself....
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I think he's correct ^^^
On the other hand, if you (for instance) are satisfied with the throw the servo gives you and you want it duplicated on the rudder end, you would want the rudder tiller arm of the same size and length as the arm on the servo and the linkage mounted on the same holes provided. In other words everything should match. If you want more throw from your servo, you start manipulating the lengths of the servo linkages and the mounting holes for the linkage.
I would disconnect the permanent linkage and play with the lengths with a piece of wire (maybe an unfolded paperclip) and see what it does for you. Also, make sure the rudder system moves freely without binding. It's possible that could be part of the problem.
It's late here, but alcohol is also involved... apologies for any ineptitude in the mother tongue... %)
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Sorry for the slow reply, been busy over the last week.... Having had a quick look at my Hooben Perkasa, your props/rudders appear to be right, I couldn't get any photos as the boat is in the back of a very dark crowded cupboard lol
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So I finally got the Perkasa down to the lake today, and she was really sluggish - We swopped out the dry cell battery for an 11.1 lipo and same problem. It was whilst we were changing the mechanical speed controller for an ESC that one of the guys noticed my motors were wired up wrong (they were in series and not parallel) - Swapped the wires around a bit and hey presto she runs rather well. She appears to have an issue with the Tx or Rx from about 4 metres away, jerks along and then goes fine when close up - Tried the aerial out along the boat but same issue. I am waiting for the video to be uploaded so you can see the issue - She does not appear to have this problem with the mechanical speed controller - I am going to put this back in for testing next time - hopefully have a lipo by then
Wayne
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Ok so video is on Facebook, does nayone know how I download it from there to my PC please.
Link is http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=4526776082434&set=o.130611523681979&type=3 (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=4526776082434&set=o.130611523681979&type=3)
Wayne