Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: John W E on November 11, 2012, 04:52:38 pm
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Hi there
After reading several topics on the forum - its set my mind a wandering (dangerous) :-)
With today's technology, is it really helping us, or is it slowly, secretly destroying the infrastructure of civilisation. To give you a couple of examples on one topic - we are on about museums and how the tendency nowadays is not to display well built models or other such artefacts but to put in such gizmos and gadgets to entertain the public. If the person wishes to do any serious research you turn to the other technology which we are using now - the web. So that is doing two things really a) we cant be bothered to get out into the world and therefore become a society who live indoors or b) we lose the art of outside communication with one another face-to-face. The other affect this is also having is, if we look at the shops how many of us dont get out of the house and go to the shops now - and due to that fact the shops are all closing down and therefore people are losing out on employment. If we look at the other way, when our youngsters are being educated in today's schooling they arent taught correct grammar or English, similar to how we were all taught. The lesson they are given, is if you can understand it - it is right - just look at text talk and arent we becoming slaves to this technology by using this. When was the last time anyone sat down to write a proper letter, pen on paper Dear Sir,.......
Anyhooo - just my thoughts for this afternoon :-)
aye
john
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When was the last time anyone sat down to write a proper letter, pen on paper Dear Sir,.......
Me, last week to Thames Water complaining about their overflowing sewer! Sent a copy with a covering letter to our MP too. Sometimes it's the only way....
Colin
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Yes the times they are a`changing, ( old fashioned song for those that weren't around when it meant something profound ) I do prefer a written contract to electronic or verbal ones. Parchment or paper I don't care which, no electrons when it comes to " You said, I said , I meant " etc. O0 Having said that, in past could not have the fun, friends and knowledge at my fingertips that the old PC gives me.
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Did,nt they say this about the Horse and cart when cars were developed..Change is inevitable.. Embrace it..just before you get a 404 error :}
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Funny you should say that. My grandfather was a farrier and blacksmith in the late 1880/90s. Rejected the crazy rich fools for rejecting the faithful horse. <:(
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People have been saying stuff like this since the Begining of time. I believe they are just as wrong now as then. I've embraced new technology and my only regret is I had to wait so long for tinterweb. What could I have achieved if I'd had access to it as a child when hungry for knowledge? The mobile phone, satcom and GPS have transformed my life at sea. I can always keep in touch with my family when I'm away. No more trying to get through to portishead on the old H/F sets. No more going on DR for 7 days without star or sun sights in the lap of the gods. Too many rose tinted spectacles I fear. Keep your old ways Ta very much. I like the way it is now.
Jerry.
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Couldn`t agree with you more Jerry :-))
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:-)) totally agree, it is progress, we have to have it and no way will time stand still.
But, in some areas, technology does seem to have had a great devastation - lots of shopping centres have gone down the pan - and how many town centres now have a full range of bustling shops......few and far between. Where have all our modelling shops gone - miss being able to go for a browse around knowing for a fact that you would meet other modellers in the shop and spend at least some of the time talking ..... that sense of community has gone from our area in the UK anyway - has it gone from your area?
The other things - what about public libraries - they are disappearing fast. Electronic books are great, but its still losing staff and employment and reference libraries used to be great for doing research etc.
Aye, I know what everyone is thinking.......
I remember when I used to work for an aero engineering company & the introduction of CNC machining - all the fitter/turners and skilled men thought that that was it - scrap heap for them - cos all they needed was someone to feed the machine and programme it etc. Little did we know that we would end up putting mistakes right that the programmer/machine had made :-)
Mind you, having said all of this - I dont know where I would be without me PC and Mayhem %% %% %% %% %%
aye
john
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The decline of the high street is partly due to out of town supermarkets and retail parks offering cheaper mainline products and free parking. The rise of Internet shopping has done the rest. On the high street the councils have driven people away (literally) by swingeing parking fees and many specialist shops have been forced out of business by landlords who feel they can keep ramping up rents despite the recession on the basis that if the local guy can't afford it then Tesco Metro can.
As far as model shops are concerned, there are simply no longer enough modellers to support local shops and that won't change. Those that survive must rely upon mail order and Internet sales. There is nothing to be done which will change that situation.
Colin
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I'm not in the business of keeping other people in work. Nobody helped us out when the merchant navy collapsed. The industry offered me £900 to take voluntary redundancy from the pool. I told them to shove it and started building british motorbikes for the japanese. Did it successfully for 10 years. Then went back to sea cos thats what I am. Ended up as skipper on an old Tito Neri 8500 hp tug in Kuwait just after the first gulf war. Tough, poorly paid, 4months on 1 month off but it was a start. Now self employed delivering tugs around the world, (wasn't really very good at actually operating a tug but nobody died!) I can however get em across any ocean cos thats what I am good at.I too loved the old model shops and have fond memories of the one in Queens Arcade in Wolverhampton. But they were in prime town center locations and this was reflected in the prices. Now The Component Shop is just up the road in a shed behind a house. It's mail order but they like you to visit and couldn't be more helpful and knowledgeable. (also got a cracking piece of stuff behind the counter.) Everything I've learned about modelling boats, R/C (hasn't that come on since I were a lad then, eh) and steam I got through tinterweb and Mayhem. Lathe work from youtube (mrpete222 tubalcain) No, won't hear a word against techno.
Jerry.
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But, in some areas, technology does seem to have had a great devastation - lots of shopping centres have gone down the pan - and how many town centres now have a full range of bustling shops......few and far between. Where have all our modelling shops gone - miss being able to go for a browse around knowing for a fact that you would meet other modellers in the shop and spend at least some of the time talking ..... that sense of community has gone from our area in the UK anyway - has it gone from your area?
The other things - what about public libraries - they are disappearing fast. Electronic books are great, but its still losing staff and employment and reference libraries used to be great for doing research etc.
The trouble with town centre shops is that, by their very nature, they have a very limited choice of goods and the the customer too has a limited choice of suppliers and price.
Customers now, thanks to on-line shopping have a vast choice of suppliers and keener prices as a result and these on-line companies also have to employ real people to carry out their businesses, so arguably even more jobs have been created to cope with the increased demand. ...... I would also say that exactly the same argument also applies to libraries, in fact I believe that statistics seem to say that reading, as a result of facilities like Kindle and Audible, has lead to a resurgence of interest it the written word. Real book sales continue to break records almost daily....
I say this as somewhat of a Luddite myself, but times do change and as to the English language, it is and always has been dynamic and if it weren't we would still be talking in the language of Chaucer or Shakespeare, which very few would indeed understand.
I suspect everyone throughout the centuries has thought that they lived at the nadir of human development, they didn't and neither are we....... shopping has changed from the days of bartering and mediaeval town markets and will continue to do so. I'm just looking forward to what the next improvement is.. :-)
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I am 62 now and only wished this new tech was around when I first set foot afloat, modeling boats though was always a small minority hobby compared to say model railways, and what is available now to wannabee modelers is beyond belief to what was about when I was a youngster. The problems in the high street is nothing new, but high business rates and most people will not walk further than they can help it with out the use of a car, plus the present recession with everyone short on money does not help any business interested in a high street spot.
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What has this got to do with model boating, I thought that was what this forum was about >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-(
Brian
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What has this got to do with model boating, I thought that was what this forum was about >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-(
Brian
erm... Chit Chat .. "Almost anything you like in here... " .... :-)
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>>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-(
Brian
This may help ..... http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/stress-anxiety-depression/Pages/controlling-anger.aspx (http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/stress-anxiety-depression/Pages/controlling-anger.aspx) .... :-)
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Brian,
Calm down dear, and embrace the benefits of the new technology.
You know it will get you in the end.
Colin
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I do not need to calm down dear, I use new technology more than you will ever do Colin. But this is a model boat forum not the Gadget Show.
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Brian,
You have no idea how newtechnological I am so don't make assumptions. :}
Colin
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If we had not embraced modern technology we would all still be using Bob's Boards in our Model Boats and they still have there uses
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If we had not embraced modern technology we would all still be using Bob's Boards in our Model Boats and they still have there uses
Quite, and the rush to embrace brushless motors doesn't mean that brushed motors are not appropriate in the right installation.
Colin
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There's an interesting article on wikibooks regarding the misuse of technology - http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/The_Computer_Revolution/Security/Technology_Misuse (http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/The_Computer_Revolution/Security/Technology_Misuse)
I work with I.T, covert CCTV, sound and lighting systems amongst a whole host of other stuff, I get to see "the dark side" of some systems and I don't like what I see. Oddly enough many country's are now concentrating their weapons towards EMP devices so perhaps it's only a matter of time, just think of the ensuing chaos should anyone throw their toys out of the pram.
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Bob's Boards still have there uses
Like wedging the door open when you're missing a door stop.
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When was the last time anyone sat down to write a proper letter, pen on paper Dear Sir,.......
john
actually John...........today, this afternoon in fact............I did type it on the pooter " microsoft word 2010", but I did hand sign it if relevent.........and I used spell check as well, {-) {-) {-) If I didn't type it, no one would ever read my hand writing..............but it was a letter duly stamped ( 64p) and posted this arvo.
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But this is a model boat forum not the Gadget Show.
This thread (originally) did relate to model boats I think. It (I believe) partly sprang from another thread discussing problems with e-mail which makes using that to communicate with traders something of a curates egg, which in turn means that many of our model boat suppliers may be missing out on orders that could make a difference to their future and thus the hobby as a whole.
Technology is changing the world and if you stand still you get run over.
The majority of scale model boats may be historical (in that they are models of past glories) but we make them with the benefit of a lot of technology which is of the gadgety type - even the pocket calculator was a gadget not so many years ago.
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Modern technology is not the same as going from a horse to a motor car. It has become all consuming & for some occupies most of their waking hours. I feel if I can't drive 12 KM to work without answering a phone something is seriously wrong with the way I live. How many letters did you write me before Email came along,none, I thought so. I do not need Twitter or Facebook, I do not need to know you got stoned last night or see a picture of you undressed, it adds nothing to my enjoyment of life thank you very much, it is in fact sensless & stupid. We can't, no matter how hard we try out work a computer, it never gets tired, I do. Technology has its place, always has & always will, but modern technology has gone beyond stupid to the realm of ridiculous & is abused to a degree never seen in human history. Trying to do everything at the speed of light is not always the best way, we still need sober second thought. A lot of what is going on now will go the way of the pet rock fad among many others, why you will ask & my reply is because we are not machines & we need to slow down & smell the roses, among other things. I don't need a million facebook friends, what I need are 5 or 6 really good friends & I have already got those thank you very much. I do need that little shop on the side street or hole in the wall because that is where I can meet you face to face & have a good chat & if we both have time go for a coffee & discuss our latest sailing exploits. We have almost lost the art of conservation & it is sad, at least it is for me. Mick B.
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Totally agree
vnkiwi
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In answer to the original question.
YES.
The line between work and home has been irreparably eroded. Especially with smart phones, work email comes to your dinner table.
Global communications means many people work across time zones and the expectation, if you work with information, is you work longer hours and a prompt (within hours) reply is expected by someone at the other end of the world.
People want answers 'NOW', because that is the modern expectation. This make it harder to prioritize.
IT and CT make it possible for us to process more information/data in a day. Our work-life has more simultaneous deadlines leading to increased stress.
People expect you to drop everything for them. They always have done, but now they can get to you more easily. And more people can get to you in the same amount of time.
If work gives you a phone, they expect it to be left on. You can't just unplug it.
Also mobile phones seem to have an expectancy to be answered, people don't ignore them (like landlines were ignored).
However, I also see that we cannot turn the clock back. {:-{
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Technology has its place, always has & always will, but modern technology has gone beyond stupid to the realm of ridiculous & is abused to a degree never seen in human history.
Mick, I tend to agree with your point about many aspects of modern Communications, but didn't a similar thing happen with the advent of electricity? Look at some of the ridiculous uses that was first put to when it was first discovered, hailed as everything from a cure all from every ailment known to man to circus entertainment.
Things will settle down but I suppose we often need to explore every avenue and path that a discovery leads us down, before finding out what it's really good at....
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Well I now work part time from home, my work computer is in a small room along with others in the office, to access it I use a program called logmein which connects my home computer with the work one and allows me to work using the companies computers licences etc but from home (keeps the premium office space to a minimum too) so far I have only had to visit the actual office about once every couple of months.
The downside is that I am on a zero hours contract, they only pay me for the hours I work (its a bit like being a consultant) so if they have no work for me I dont get paid (which if a company is struggling is a bonus for them).
its not so much fun when they dont have work for me, but with the small work pension I get I only need to get about 20 hours work a month to break even and pay the bills (my previous company made me redundant and paid off my mortgage, the pension paid out at age 52 because they had made me redundant).
So the IT technology has freed me from the daily grind of driving to work, and gives me more time to spend with my family, I do see that working from home is going to become more prevalent and give people more time to spend with family (and of course time to make models).
Grendel
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There is a deep down downside. Since the pocket calculator became a common item, we have had a couple of generations who are unable to function without an electric adding machine. The brains have become lazy. Ever watched a checkout flounder when the power went down?
The internet is a great source of information, but it does mean that a great many people now no longer have a need to actually remember anything.
We, as a race, have become addicted to sensation rather than substance, and the worship of ability to amuse rather that create. We are getting into the habit of being told what to think "because somebody famous for being famous" tells us what to think. With the aid of modern technology, we are lying in a very comfortable rut, just what we are going to do when whatever made that rut comes back down the road, who knows? Sometimes I feel that with time, we are painting ourselves into a corner.
Philosophy should not be attempted on a gloomy Monday morning.
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"Do we think communications technology has made a rod for our own backs? (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=40461.msg404901#msg404901) " In answer, yes.....and no.
These are just tools to be used, not something that is to be allowed to take over our lives. You make of them what you want, you get out of them what you want, you use them.
The negative side is that some younger generations (not all youing people I hasten to add) seem to think these tools are an inseperable part of their lives and that is sad.
In relation to model boats, the amount of usefull information available online, in places like this forum, is invaluable in it's ease of use.
How many of you still do the crossword without having "Google" handy? %%
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Having retired a couple of years ago one of the best things I have ever done was throw away my mobile phone.
The sense of freedom regained at not being at anyones beck and call 24/7 is fantastic.
It has been two years now and I don't regret it one bit.
On the other hand belonging to a popular forum like Mayhem is a two edged sword. I love the fact that I can benefit from so many modelers experiences but it takes hours just to read todays posts.
Technology, I love it and hate it.
Wizard
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How many of you still do the crossword without having "Google" handy? %%
Yep... the wife gets annoyed if I take the laptop in the lav with me {-)
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I feel using Google or other reference for a crossword defeats the object, which is to exercise my brain. When (or more likely if) I finish it I like to feel that I did it rather than having 'cheated'. A bit like modelling in fact :)
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I agree, using technology to help with crosswords etc does defeat the object. However there are times (like yesterday!) when I have done all I can on a crossword and really really need to know the answer to something cos it's bugging me, then out comes the technology! In that respect it is good because I am learning something I did not know.
As I said it's a tool that you use when required. Just like phones. We were all issued with I Phones a year or so ago and I refused to have one on the grounds that I already had a phone that worked enough to talk to people and I did not want all the other "options". I still have the I Phone in my drawer, unused.....
As a point of interest I do not have broadband at home, nor Sky. Does that make me a Luddite?
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As a point of interest I do not have broadband at home, nor Sky. Does that make me a Luddite?
Not as such. It depends on your reasons for not having them, e.g.from Wikipedia:
In modern usage, "Luddite" is a term describing those opposed to industrialisation, automation, computerisation or new technologies in general.
I think the important word is "opposed" rather than, say, ambivalent.
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nor Sky. Does that make me a Luddite?
You must have some new digital technology, otherwise you wouldn't be watching any broadcast TV now.
So, no, you're not a luddite (unless you don't watch the TV at all. of course).
Lance
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You are of course correct. If I was I would not be on this forum. {:-{
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I guess the older methods had drawbacks too
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20456782
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The Internet has made researching a project on the other side of the world possible. But it is the people it brought me into contact with that made the experience rich and enjoyable. Our greatest resource is people and not 'search'. How many times have we been defeated using technology only to have the answer provided by a member. On the whole technology is good.
On the other hand my employer insisted I have an iPhone and now emails etc spew forth at all hours. Voicemails are left and people have expectancies based on messages they left hours before I ever picked them up.
Dave
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I find iphones have off buttons, and batteries that go flat very quickly.
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Very true - but then you are not believed or considered awkward.
Dave
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tapetty, tappety, tap, send. Done my bit, not my problem any more and I didn't have to speak to anyone. That's how I see how technology has reduced communication.
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On the other hand my employer insisted I have an iPhone and now emails etc spew forth at all hours. Voicemails are left and people have expectancies based on messages they left hours before I ever picked them up.
Our company was bought over by a company based in India....the IT department were told to give us new blackberry phones that are set so when they recieved an email they would switch themselves on and alert you, then the HR team in india was told to call all the UK employees after 6 months to ensure they had a nice transition during THEIR normal working hours they called us all in the wee hours of the morning....... >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( I perhaps should apologies for my words that morning :embarrassed:
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Very true - but then you are not believed or considered awkward.
Dave
They can think what they like. When I am at work and being paid, they can contact me. Outside of hours, unless it's a dire emergency, I've got a right to be left in peace. Technology isn't the problem, people's (ab)use of it is.
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Yes and no. When I went to school it was long before calculators, I loathed maths, I was rubbish. I didn't know it was probably due to dislexia (in those days spelt T H I C K). I was good at working out problems though. In my 20's I got a calculator. now I can do complicated things, I also used to use Excell writing my own spreadsheets. Most of us use power tools and not the hand tools we used as youngsters. Who boils glue now? Why use a hand screwdriver when the battery one is quicker and with a lot of screws a lot less boring? Learn to switch off the phone at mealtimes and dont take it to the pub. OK I'll shut up now and get of my hobby horse.
P.S Gignyer, Try ringing them up at their awkward times or just leave it in the car/garage etc out of hours.
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New fangled technology ! How on earth did people manage to learn how to build model boats before Model Boat Mayhem, AND the means to beam up this indispensable research and teaching resource straight into our workshops?
When I was likkle I remember milk delivered by horse drawn carts. Ultimately we were allowed slide rules in school sixth forms, I learned to program a Tandy TRS80 in BASIC and Assembler, and was gratefully able to forget how to do long division of Pounds Shillings and Pence.
We used to DREAM of living in a corridor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo) (Four Yorkshiremen - Monty Python)
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Wandering past the link above into the "other links" bit (funniest QI punchline), I found this lurking way down in the comments -
"Well, people who use their brain for more then choosing which TV show to watch or cereal to eat in the morning usually are in a very select minority."
Our reliance on modern technology takes us down that path. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy using it, but it is a comfortable rut. I do sometimes wonder how these highly independent rugged backwoodsmen would actually fare if their supply of petrol and ammunition was cut off, since both rely totally on the backup of a very industrialsed society.
"the wife gets annoyed if I take the laptop in the lav with me "
You could ruin the laptop like that. Use the paper. And make sure the webcam is turned off.
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Hey Malcolm
I am a firm believer in reducing things to their core element and working from there. That quote of yours can be reduced to my life ........
"the wife gets annoyed if I" <:(
Dave
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A laptop to wipe your derriere?
That's got to be worse than Izal!
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A laptop to wipe your derriere?
That's got to be worse than Izal!
Yes but will it do the old windows "TADAAAA!" when your suitably wiped
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There was a laptop rental company that had installed software that allowed them to remotely monitor the laptop, apparently they had also monitored the webcams during shall we say intimate moments.
Grendel
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There exists the ability (through specific software) on windows based computers to remotely turn on the webcam and microphone in "stealth mode", the user would have no indication that either device is in use.If no microphone is fitted some systems can utilise the speakers or headphones as a microphone.
The information is out there if you search in the right places and have the skill to use it.
Back to the boats, I think this may be my next project over the winter months- something around 50" perhaps ?
http://www.ares.com.tr/index.php?page=454