Model Boat Mayhem

Mess Deck: General Section => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: leo on January 14, 2013, 01:28:02 pm

Title: Russian Convoy medal
Post by: leo on January 14, 2013, 01:28:02 pm: The Russian want to award medals to those who sailed in the Russian Convoys during WW2. This has been blocked by the Foreign Office although all other counties involved , i.e. Canada, US etc have allowed the medals to be awarded. :(( As a result there is a petition being raised for presentation to the Government to allow the UK seamen involved to accept this medal.
Details of the petition can be found here:
http://www.russianarticconveymuseum.co.uk/wp/the-ushakov-medal/

I would ask all those boaters who recognise the hardships suffered during WW2 running the artic convoys to support the petition of a medal from Russia.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Russian Convoy medal
Post by: Sinking Feeling on January 14, 2013, 01:34:41 pm: linky no worky %)

www.russianarcticconvoymuseum.co.uk/ (http://www.russianarcticconvoymuseum.co.uk/) :-))
Title: Re: Russian Convoy medal
Post by: Netleyned on January 14, 2013, 01:50:07 pm: Petition signed. :-)) :-))

Ned
Title: Re: Russian Convoy medal
Post by: ardarossan on January 14, 2013, 02:24:03 pm: I thought that the British Government had announced that they were going to recognise the seamen who served on the Russian Convoys, who would receive a star medal?

Has something changed?

Andy
Title: Re: Russian Convoy medal
Post by: Norseman on January 14, 2013, 02:26:25 pm: Sorry if I seem particularly thick ... But where's the petition please?
Dave
Title: Re: Russian Convoy medal
Post by: w3bby on January 14, 2013, 02:39:56 pm: Here, Petition (http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/40174)
Title: Re: Russian Convoy medal
Post by: gingyer on January 14, 2013, 08:24:48 pm: The medal is an anniversary medal,
Which celebrates X-years since the convoy medal was issued

This is the reason the government has stopped it's issue as the UK does not have anniversary
Medals and does not allow them to be issued.
Title: Re: Russian Convoy medal
Post by: ardarossan on January 14, 2013, 08:51:49 pm: Quote from: gingyer on January 14, 2013, 08:24:48 pm
The medal is an anniversary medal,
Which celebrates X-years since the convoy medal was issued

This is the reason the government has stopped it's issue as the UK does not have anniversary
Medals and does not allow them to be issued.

That isn't what it says on the letter shown here - You'll have to zoom in a bit...

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/need-to-read/2012/10/31/welsh-veteran-ivor-beaven-told-he-can-t-accept-russian-wwii-honour-91466-32136542/ (http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/need-to-read/2012/10/31/welsh-veteran-ivor-beaven-told-he-can-t-accept-russian-wwii-honour-91466-32136542/)

What I don't understand though, is, if this is an existing ruling and/or practice as advised by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO), how can Canada, Australia and New Zealand accept, as they are part of the Commonwealth?

Andy
Title: Re: Russian Convoy medal
Post by: RAAArtyGunner on January 14, 2013, 10:39:30 pm: Australia after much ado has now issued anniversary/commemorative medals.

For example Anniversary of National Service Medal (ANSM).

Also those engaged in the battle of Long Tan (Vietnam), who at the time were not allowed to accept Vietnamese medal awarded to them but were allowed to accept US presidential citation are now being awarded the Vietnamese award.

Our medals and honours system folowed the UK which over simplifying had quotas which restricted recognition of many a deserved award. Australia has its own awards system, modelled on the old imperial honours but quotas still exist.

As an aside our most recent VC winner left the Army upon return from deployment to Afghanistan.
They had to chase him up from the West Australian mines to get him back into uniform, (Reseves), to accept his award.
Title: Re: Russian Convoy medal
Post by: pugwash on January 14, 2013, 11:46:46 pm: Our government has always been awkward about Campaign Medals issued by other countries
I served in Malaysia and Borneo 64 to 66 and got my Pingat Jasa Malaysia (their equivalent of a campaign medal)
about 5 yrs ago and it was our government that tried to block its allocation all this time. And even now I am not supposed
to wear it on any official occasion when I am wearing any British medals.
Geoff
Title: Re: Russian Convoy medal
Post by: Norseman on January 15, 2013, 02:36:48 pm: I admit to not understanding how medals work at all, but it puzzles me how the top brass at functions just seem to be festooned with stuff? Do they do a lot of hand to hand fighting at week ends or something?

Dave
Title: Re: Russian Convoy medal
Post by: ardarossan on January 15, 2013, 04:37:28 pm: (http://s2.postimage.org/hosrbx5p5/Top_Brass.png)

(http://s8.postimage.org/7evjjwr2t/Horse_Brass.png)
Title: Re: Russian Convoy medal
Post by: Netleyned on January 15, 2013, 06:02:56 pm: Must put in for a longer jacket :D :D

Ned
Title: Re: Russian Convoy medal
Post by: Rottweiler on January 15, 2013, 06:06:09 pm: Come on lads,sign this petition,you know these brave men deserve it.There are only 971 signatures so far,many more are needed.
THANKS
Mick F
Title: Re: Russian Convoy medal
Post by: BarryM on January 15, 2013, 07:23:13 pm: 995 now.
BM
Title: Re: Russian Convoy medal
Post by: cos918 on January 15, 2013, 07:24:07 pm: Why dont these vets tell the Goverment to go to hell and go to Russia and get there medal. What the Goverment going to do through them in Jail I dont think so would look bad throughing an ex service man in Jail for getting a medal.
This is typical of any goverment ,out of touch with what the voters want

john
Title: Re: Russian Convoy medal
Post by: dave301bounty on January 15, 2013, 07:55:25 pm: I Have signed this petition here and in London and at the Merchant Navy recognised site ,signed for my Father [ deceased] and for the Men who were with him ,myself ,I am a mere 18 years Service in the Merchant Navy ,Engine room Branch .AND Proud of it too ,Dave .South End Liverpool plus member of the local Merchant Navy Association ,and holder of two medals .
Title: Re: Russian Convoy medal
Post by: RAAArtyGunner on January 15, 2013, 10:29:03 pm: Quote from: Norseman on January 15, 2013, 02:36:48 pm
I admit to not understanding how medals work at all, but it puzzles me how the top brass at functions just seem to be festooned with stuff? Do they do a lot of hand to hand fighting at week ends or something?

Dave
The logic is, which it isn't logical, is,

That rather than giving everyone, maybe hundreds etc, a medal who deserves them, give one to 'The Officer' as recognition to all.
For example, a Commanding Officer, Lieutent Colonel, maybe sitting back at Head Quarters, which may not even be in theatre, will be awarded a medal because of how exceptionally well his men, regiment/battalion fought in an action. The Commanding General, Brigadier up, will also get a medal because of how exemplary the troops under his command performed.
Medals issued 2, earned, but not issued maybe a 100 or more.
Title: Re: Russian Convoy medal
Post by: NFMike on January 15, 2013, 11:57:35 pm: If this is an 'anniversary' medal (correct me if I have misunderstood) then I can't see why it is so important to have. Anniversaries are more or less arbitrary - they happen every year, so they could have issued 60 or 70 of these by now. As has been suggested this sort of general dishing out means you end up with a chest full of bling which just devalues the medals that 'matter'.

Devaluation seems to be a current craze of the population - we now have silences of many minutes for almost every untimely death, MBEs, OBEs, etc, are spread all over several times a year (at least that's how it feels), and people who can run fast in a London stadium are called heroes. In my book the volunteer who jumps out of his safe, warm bed on a stormy night and risks, and sometimes loses, his life in a small boat to help others in need is an example of a hero - not someone doing the day job, regardless of how hazardous it might be.
Title: Re: Russian Convoy medal
Post by: RAAArtyGunner on January 16, 2013, 12:42:02 am: Couldn't agree more regarding heroes.
It is also happening here in Australia.

Professional sports people, earning Millions and a career to boot, are legends, heroes and get a Gong higher than awarded to troops who actually fought on the front line. Not to mention all the millionares who donate their petty cash to a 'cause' and also get higher honours.
Our defence department, bless their souls, have now decreed that only one medal will be issued for all 'active' service.
However, the medal will have a different coloured ribbon for each 'theatre/campaign' and if earned more than once a bar to the ribbon.
Will save the defence dept heaps of money, as all, Army, Navy & Air Force, will all get the same medal.
To make sure everyone gets at least one medal, we have the ADM, Australian Defence Medal, awarded to all in the, Army, Navy or Air Force, who satisfactorily complete their enlistment period.
Medals as honours, no not anymore in Australia.
Title: Re: Russian Convoy medal
Post by: Norseman on January 16, 2013, 01:33:33 am: It's only a conversation lads and we aren't going to change the world so no need to fall out. I have enjoyed the differing views so far and minor diversions from the original post.

I have (thankfully) never been called on to do something brave, possibly day after day too. I have no idea how I would have coped. To those who lived in those times and suffered and overcome ... Well a bit of pressed metal hardly seems enough - so I say if it would make the recipient feel appreciated then what harm is done? There can't be any of those chaps under eighty three. Those runs to Murmansk and Archangel must have been hellish to complete.

Dave
Title: Re: Russian Convoy medal
Post by: Rottweiler on January 16, 2013, 01:47:37 am: The thing is that the men who actually did these things dont look at themselves as heroes,it was "just something they had to do" A little thanks and appreciation will not be too much too ask? I wholeheartedly support all those who fought for us during the second world war,as I am honoured to be the Secretary of the HMS RAMILLIES ASSOCIATION,and as such have spoken to these particular men.Two of them were aged 15 on D Day,and saw sights they should never have witnessed at that or any other age.THESE were indeed brave men.
Title: Re: Russian Convoy medal
Post by: tigertiger on January 16, 2013, 05:33:55 am: ***Topic Tidied Up***
Off topic and hostile posts removed. One or two other posts may also have been deleted in the crossfire.

The essence of the discussion has been maintained.

***Topic Now Unlocked***
Title: Re: Russian Convoy medal
Post by: RAAArtyGunner on January 17, 2013, 08:52:07 pm: Quote from: tigertiger on January 16, 2013, 05:33:55 am
***Topic Tidied Up***
Off topic and hostile posts removed. One or two other posts may also have been deleted in the crossfire.

The essence of the discussion has been maintained.

***Topic Now Unlocked***

Or got swamped by the expectant tidal tsunami %) %) %) {-) {-) {-) :-)) :-)) :-))
Title: Re: Russian Convoy medal
Post by: ardarossan on January 17, 2013, 09:37:11 pm: Quote from: RAAArtyGunner on January 17, 2013, 08:52:07 pm

Or got swamped by the expectant tidal tsunami %) %) %) {-) {-) {-) :-)) :-)) :-))

Like it makes any difference now the damage has been done. If the forum is going to have non-model related topics, and in this case a topic that relates to war-time issues, it's simply not right to hide the truth to make 'War' acceptable.

Nazi & Russian atrocities occurred. They are a fact, and they had relevance here. Now the thread has been minced, and the fate of innocent victims has been conveniently erased 70 years after it happened the first time.

It's a crying shame.

Andy
Title: Re: Russian Convoy medal
Post by: vnkiwi on January 17, 2013, 09:58:25 pm: This thread is about those who served on the arctic convoys, which has relevance here.
The attrocities committed by ALL sides (Allies, Axis, Russia or Japan) in the war have no relevance.
cheers
vnkiwi
Title: Re: Russian Convoy medal
Post by: Rottweiler on January 17, 2013, 10:03:39 pm: thank you Vnkiwi,my sentiments exactly.The subject IS the Russian Convoy medal and nothing else.
Mick F
Title: Re: Russian Convoy medal
Post by: Richtea on January 17, 2013, 10:14:11 pm: Petition signed. :-))
Title: Re: Russian Convoy medal
Post by: Martin (Admin) on January 17, 2013, 11:22:41 pm: :police: As has already been requested, lets keep this topic on subject please. :police:
Title: Re: Russian Convoy medal
Post by: ardarossan on January 18, 2013, 03:42:10 am: Very intersting site:
http://www.veterans-uk.info/medals/russian.html (http://www.veterans-uk.info/medals/russian.html)

It also contains information for personel who may be eligible for the previously approved Russian Medal

Andy
Title: Re: Russian Convoy medal
Post by: gingyer on January 18, 2013, 08:57:23 am: I thought that the Government was to issue an Alantic Convoy medal
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/9756039/Sacrifices-of-Arctic-Convoy-and-Bomber-Command-veterans-recognised-at-last.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/9756039/Sacrifices-of-Arctic-Convoy-and-Bomber-Command-veterans-recognised-at-last.html)

along with those from Bomber Command who had been "forgotten" after the war
Title: Re: Russian Convoy medal
Post by: DickyD on January 18, 2013, 06:20:03 pm: DickyD's wife has signed. Richard's grandfather was given a Russian medal during the first war world, so I cannot understand why these men cannot have them.

Gillian