Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Model Boating => Topic started by: Lash151 on February 13, 2013, 01:08:38 pm
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Hi... Just wondered if I am going mad or if this idea is in any way sensible...
I was considering building a hull (possibly a Submarine) plank on frame... but using all styrene card! In other words all the frames cut from say, 2mm styrene card and all the planks from say 1mm... using larger sheets where possible... is this madness? %%
Lee
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sounds like bloody hard work!
At some point I guess there will be the use of filler required, which probably then means some backing to you 'planks'
sure its not impossible, but maybe too flexible - bearing in mind any increase in pressure on the hull underwater.
good luck!
Hi... Just wondered if I am going mad or if this idea is in any way sensible...
I was considering building a hull (possibly a Submarine) plank on frame... but using all styrene card! In other words all the frames cut from say, 2mm styrene card and all the planks from say 1mm... using larger sheets where possible... is this madness? %%
Lee
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Ha ha... you're probably right on all counts :}
Lee
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I just have to ask........are you a masochist, or have masochistic tendencies %% %% %% %% %% %% %%
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I just have to ask........are you a masochist, or have masochistic tendencies %% %% %% %% %% %% %%
Ok, ok... its crazy... :}
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Yes seems crazy ..... but how much for a sheet of 2mm styrene and a tube of glue?!
Have a go Lee, you may have come up with something really good!
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Hi... Just wondered if I am going mad or if this idea is in any way sensible...
I was considering building a hull (possibly a Submarine) plank on frame... but using all styrene card! In other words all the frames cut from say, 2mm styrene card and all the planks from say 1mm... using larger sheets where possible... is this madness? %%
Lee
I've got to ask, is there a particular reason for wanting to use the specified materials in the way you're pondering?
Andy
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Been there, done that!
Works well.
Ali
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Doesn't sound crazy to me. The plastic may be a bit harder to work than some woods, but if solvent welded it would be very strong.
Even if it was a bit harder to build than using wood it would probably need less 'afterwork', like coating with resin, than wood.
But surely someone has done or tried it before.
Ah, Ali has posted while I wrote.
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I've got to ask, is there a particular reason for wanting to use the specified materials in the way you're pondering?
Andy
Hi Andy...
I have, for sometime been thinking of building a sub (along with half a dozen other things I haven't got round to!) And I like the idea of making the hull plank on frame but wood is not the ideal material for a sub. So I thought...same technique, different material... Depending on the design, a lot of it would be quite big pieces of styrene and not thin strips.... anyway, I just thought you all might like a laugh!!
Lee
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It's perfectly feasible, You will get through quite a lot of plastic weld.
Ali
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Hi Wartsilaone, That looks very good... there was me thinking I would be laughed off the forum. The other thing about using styrene is its easier to cut and shape than ply is... but... does car body filler stick as well to styrene as to wood, considering the larger areas that might have to be filled... (I know its fine for filling little cracks and irregular joins and stuff).
Have you got any more pictures of that build, a bit further on?
Lee
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8)
credit card ?
warning boy's :police:
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8)
credit card ?
warning boy's :police:
Err... why??
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Price of styrene sheet, or maybe collect a few for "plating" effect ? BTW Gazou are you organizing an event this May ( year 2013 ) ?
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I did my forst Type 42 in 1976 that way. looked OK but when I could aford a fiberglass hull I cut the deck off and moved it over.
Slab sided models are fine but nothing with compound curves.
The exception is if you use thick gloves and heat the plasticard over a wooden former. I have seen this done where yard builders hulls were copied this way.
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Car body filler sticks just fine as long as the area you're filling dose not flex.
I suggest adding some resin to the inside of the skin before filling.
Ali
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Hi, Lash.
No, I don't think it would be a crazy idea either.
Two points though.
2mm styrene is tough to cut leaving nice smooth edges.
As for sticking the layers together......thought of double sided tape? I've been banging on about this for a few years so far but I'm not sure if anyone has used it very much.
I've found it to be almost indestructable...even when boiled.
Positioning of the "strata" would need careful thought as this stuff is quicker to grab than superglue. Accurate drawings and the use of positioning pegs might do the trick. BY.
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Thanks Bryan... that is a really good idea... I shall explore this further... Maybe I could cut and laminate 1mm thick frames... (although the cost is going up!)
Lee
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Hi Lee ,
Look up a firm called Hinleys in sheffield I get my hip sheets from them 1300x660mm I think in all sizes 0.5mm 1mm 1.5mm 2mm 2.5mm and 2.75 mm I think all colours think last time Got some 1mm was about £7 a sheet but dont quote me as for plastic weld its about £7 a 500mlt tin but i now use solvent cleaner for pvc windows 1 lt about £5and I think its better.
Regards Howard.
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Thats great, thanks Howard...
I was just trying to work out costs based on CMB... the prices from the place you describe look a lot better.
Cheers Lee
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The cost of styrene sheets in my neck of the woods is 1mm £6 1.5mm £7.50 and 2mm about 9quid for 4ft X 2ft sheets.
I`ve used it extensively and had no problems, I`ve found that using plasticweld on the thinner sheets tends to distort the plastic when it dries though.
It does look quite good in between frames , gives it that "starved dog" effect O0
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Might be ok for Chant oiler hulls too :D
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=22950.0
Dave
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Hi Howard
I intended to be on topic. Pondering Lee's general point I thought the Chant suitable for Lee's plasticard. The link was just so anyone unsure of what a Chant hull looked like would be able to see without having to search the web. Sorry for not making that clearer. :embarrassed:
Dave
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No problem DaveI was just so confused by itas I could see the link with you thread but maybe what was down to me think Lee was confused by to Buy thank you for the reply and clearering it up.
Regards Howard.
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Its OK, I'm not any more confused than normal :-))
I posted a new topic in the Submarine section... I think I shall scratch build a submarine out of styrene... I just need to find some suitable plans.... either an Akula or a British WW2 sub... not sure yet!
Lee
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Emm, after reading my last post (see above) I think I should stop drinkng Stella as even am finding it hard to read that and I wrote it. %%
regards Howard.
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This is a very interesting thread. I am about to start building a tid tug hull from styrene sheet. The hull will be about 600mm so not a large hull. I plan on using 2mm thick sheets for the frames and 0.75mm sheets for the outer skin of the hull.
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This is a very interesting thread. I am about to start building a tid tug hull from styrene sheet. The hull will be about 600mm so not a large hull. I plan on using 2mm thick sheets for the frames and 0.75mm sheets for the outer skin of the hull.
What made you choose this method, had you seen it before?
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Primarly because working with styrene doesnt make as much mess as wood. I will be doing the build in my 1 bed flat and have no workshop so keeping the mess to a minimum is a good thing. I also quite enjoy working with styrene and always promised myself I would give building an entire hull from the material a go some time.
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To clean up the edges of scored and snapped styrene sheet, a small block plane does a lovely job. You can even buy a miniature edge plane from Veritas that will keep your edges square.
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Thanks... I will check that out. I use a small plane with a razor blade in it at the moment... that works well.
Lee
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This is a very interesting thread. I am about to start building a tid tug hull from styrene sheet. The hull will be about 600mm so not a large hull. I plan on using 2mm thick sheets for the frames and 0.75mm sheets for the outer skin of the hull.
Do you find it difficult to snap 2mm styrene along a score? I am just thinking about scoring and breaking 2mm along curved edges... I haven't used 2mm stuff before.... I will have to get some and experiment.
Lee
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Topic cleaned up and Gaou's random post moved. :-))
http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=41084.0
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Thanks Martin...
I think Gazou's photograph of himself did work surprisingly well under the heading 'Is this a crazy idea?' :}
Lee
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{-) {-)
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Do you find it difficult to snap 2mm styrene along a score? I am just thinking about scoring and breaking 2mm along curved edges... I haven't used 2mm stuff before.... I will have to get some and experiment.
Lee
It has been a few years since last time I worked with styrene but from what I remember it wasn't too bad. I was. Hoping to have started by now but struggle to find the spare time these days!
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I am about to start building a tid tug hull from styrene sheet.
How about a build thread :}
Dave
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Yes, I would be very interested in seeing a build log of your TID
Lee
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Lash, I dont think that is Gazou`s photo. I`ve bought a few postcards of this image in the past, it is the French version of a Scotsman in a "see you Jimmy" hat! %) If is him then he is doing OK on royalties ! {-) {-) {-) Merd, juis oui gone off topic again :((
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Oui, garder au point s'il vous plaît ; vilain garçon
;D
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Oui, garder au point s'il vous plaît ; vilain garçon
;D
singe effronté
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Me no speeka dat lingo >>:-( >>:-( >>:-(
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Strewth Bruce...we dont understand Strine neither. Now your gonna get carded, plastique of course. <*< <*< <*< <*< {-) {-) {-)
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I will start a build thread as soon as I start the build! I am hoping to get the prop shaft ordered tomorrow as well as handing in a university assignment. Hopefully I will be able to get started soon after that is done.
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Great, I look forward to watching the build....
Lee
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Vot coontree yoo all cum a da vrom, hoo no cun speeka da ingliz <*< <*< <*<
Vos did rine, me speeka da goot ingliz, >>:-( >>:-( bin stralia long long time, O0 O0 me play da cards good, pocker goot huh O0 O0 O0
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Great, I look forward to watching the build....
Lee
I am looking forward to getting started! :} It has been 4 years since last I did any model boat building.
I asked a similar question a while back and was advised to have a look at some of Krishna's builds but I believe he used foamex boards.
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Krishna's building techniques are unique... he builds whole boats in a day!!
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Yes, I noticed that. It will probably take me a day to get all the frames for the hull cut out!
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I usually spend a day trying to find the knife {-)
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Or days where progress is actually anti-progress (is that a word?)
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For my tenpeneth, Styrine and plasticard are both really nice to work with, for jointing I use MEK solvent, a good sharp knife to cut anything lass than 1MM, for thicker cuts a razor saw or fret saw are ideal... *railway modeling hat off* An example of styren work :D
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-_H6N1Ccmffw/UD0Xxl8J87I/AAAAAAAAAVI/alYcfLAEuOg/s720/IMG_0769.JPG)
Hope this helps
Sean
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Hi Sean....
Thanks for that, I have used styrene before, i was questioning whether you could build an entire boat hull using the plank on frame technique but with styrene rather than wood. I was interested in building a submarine with a material that was rather less buoyant than wood... thanks for the input though.
Lee
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My bad, :-))
I see no reason why it cant be done, after all it is a sturdy and light stuff...
I will be interested to see how you get along though!
Sean
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Yes... i am definately going to give it a go. I think I will use 2mm styrene for the frames and 1mm sheet for the skin... and maybe put more frames in, closer together.... it should be pretty strong I think.
Lee
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A friend of mine built a 1:32 scale barn (I know its a differnet thing all together) using 2.5MM plastic as the frame, and 1MM skin, frames centred at 25MM it was surprisingly sturdy when he knocked it off his table...
Sean
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Hi Lee,
Might be worth making a small practice piece from the thicknesses of styrene you plan to use. I would be worried that 1mm thick plastic might not want to bend enough, put too mush strain on the joints and may just keep pinging off.
Though you could try heating the strips over a kettle and bending them before gluing them to the frame.
Ali
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I fully agree with this. I have had a few trys at heating styrene in boiling water with a view to "forming" it and it was tricky, however I was trying to do it with 2mm thick sheets.
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My method for using styrene differs from the traditional plank on frame method.
I could not get or make plastic strips long enough for the whole of my model so I made it like they make modern ships (using thin plastic on the skin to simulate steel plating)
The skin can be made thicker and stronger by laying more styrene over the top.
Ali
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Guys....I am not suggesting using styrene is crazy....but there are a few fundamental differences between synthetic styrene and natural wood with respect to planking which is usually considered a 3D process
1. styrene planks or sheet can be bent into a cylindrical shape without issue...however we must consider this as bending with the grain [as in traditional wood]
2. to bend a styrene plank in [2D format] to mimic the profile of a banana we must stretch the molecular structure of the material to a point approaching its yield/fracture or failure on the bottom of the gentle curve and also compress the material at the top of the curve which results in the styrene plank springing and taking in a 3D format
3. styrene sheet material has no elastic memory when bending [against the grain]..............
Having said this..it only relates to planking........I see no reason why styrene sheeting could not be used as was steel plate was used in older style hull expansion plans... a lost art of lofting? .Derek
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There are some really good points made here guys... thanks. I think because I am building a sub, I will be able to use sheet as opposed to planks but maybe 1mm is too thick. I shall, as you suggest, have to experiment with the thicknesses and perhaps make a sample section.
Lee
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There are some really good points made here guys... thanks. I think because I am building a sub, I will be able to use sheet as opposed to planks but maybe 1mm is too thick. I shall, as you suggest, have to experiment with the thicknesses and perhaps make a sample section.
Lee
I don't think it's a case of using one method or the other but both. Cylindrical or at least single curve sections will be easily done with sheet card, whereas compound curves such as bow and stern areas might be best done with thin/tapered 'planks'.
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I don't think it's a case of using one method or the other but both. Cylindrical or at least single curve sections will be easily done with sheet card, whereas compound curves such as bow and stern areas might be best done with thin/tapered 'planks'.
Yes, I think you're right.