Hi Greg, so it's a code and not a law? Written by club members not parliament? My insurers (house & contents) happy to give £5 million public liability cover for model steamboats. It only seems to be club people effected. My boiler and gas tank certificates have no expiry date or timespan mentioned and the guy that makes em says they don't need retesting.
Jerry.
Hi again George. Ref the steam test at 1.5 x wp.. How is that actually done? Is the boiler placed in some kind of protected area/enclosure, as if the test failed couldn't there be an explosion?
Jerry.
George, I've just read that PDF file and realise the 1.5x test is hydraulic and not steam. The steam test is later at Pw + 10% . I wondered how they could steam at 1.5x without holding the safety v/v down!!
Thanks again
Jerry.
George, that's not how I read it. I copied and paste para 14.3:-
14.3 The boiler shall be subjected to an initial hydraulic shell pressure test of TWICE working pressure (2 x PW) and is valid for the life of the boiler. A repeat hydraulic pressure test shall be conducted after the appropriate working components have been attached to the boiler shell to prove the pressure and structural integrity for the interface of the boiler fittings. This includes the pressure gauge. The applied pressure shall be ONE and ONE HALF times working pressure (1.5 x PW). The test method is as described in Section 10 of this Test Code.
Then the rest:-
14.6 A visual examination of the pressure system pipe work shall be conducted. The pressure gauge shall be checked for accuracy against the calibrated test gauge, particularly the red line, prior to conducting the steam test. The steam test shall be carried out immediately after the first hydraulic test (1.5 x PW) and every 12 months thereafter. The boiler shall be steamed at the maximum firing rate of the fuel. The test shall be continued for sufficient time as to allow the inspector to be satisfied that stable conditions have been attained. The operation of the safety valve(s) shall be checked to make certain that they operate at the working pressure of the boiler (PW) (see paragraph 3.5) and that the pressure does not rise by more than 10% of the working pressure (PW + 10%) during safety valve operation (limit pressure PL). If fitted, the correct operation of the water level gauge and the boiler water feed pump shall be verified.
If you insert of between hydraulic test (of) 1.5 x PW it makes more sense.
I read the last bit to say boiler is steamed at Pw and that as you say the pressure should not rise more than 10% after the safety lifts.
If the safety valve should not be adjusted, how do they make the the boiler steam at 1.5x Pw?
I'm not trying to be funny but that's how I read it.
Jerry.
Can anyone please clarify exactly what is a Tester? It appears to me that there is no approved course and certification. Merely a compotive person. So whats wrong in myself testing? If not so where do i become credited? It does seem anyone can label themselves a tester. I hope that i will be corrected. John.
Boiler testing, at any size, is a standard procedure- and for that matter a standard procedure for any pressure system.
1- Manufacturer test on construction completion, bare shell only, hydraulic test to twice working pressure.
2- Steam test to full working pressure with water gauges and safety valve attached, with full firing rate the safety valves should contain the pressure to a maximum of working pressure+10%.
3- In full size, to satisfy insurers, a boiler test is taken in it's working situation, and water supplies are checked, as are pressure gauge, SV's and water gauges to check for safe operation of all systems- although in model sizes this would occur in the club situation, or prior to an event where club insurance is not applicable.
4- For consecutive tests a hydro test to 1.5 x working pressure is standard across industry- as well as now being standard for clubs wanting to hydro test a boiler for insurance purposes, and would be done before step 3.
5- After consecutive hydro tests steps 2 and 3 are repeated each time.
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD A BOILER EVER BE SUBJECTED TO 1.5 X WORKING STEAM PRESSURE UNDER STEAM, THIS WOULD REQUIRE MANIPULATING THE SAFETY VALVES TO MALFUNCTION PURPOSEFULLY, AND IN SETTING THEM LOWER BACK TO WORKING PRESSURE YOU HAVE VOIDED YOUR TEST CONDITIONS.
Any test equal to or above working pressure are done using hydraulic testing, and steam testing never occurs at more than WP+10%.
Jerry will be covered at Coniston, more than adequately, by his house insurers. Upon satisfactorily proving his plant is safe (step 3) then the organisers are happy that the plant is safe, operated competently and already have proof of insurance.
Greg
Gentlemen,
As a boiler maker for many years I can assure you that whichever code you read/ adopt/follow, be it the original Pressure Equipment Regulations 1999, Pressure Systems Safety Regulations 2000 or this latest edition of The examination and Testing of Miniature Steam Boilers (v12a)
The Steam Accumulation Test is always specified as being performed at Normal Working Pressure with an allowance of 10% rise in pressure above the set pressure of the safety valve… i.e. Safe working pressure PL… (This should have been previously calibrated and set as a separate exercise).
Section 3.5 states… the safety valve should be set to open AT or BELOW the working pressure (Pw)
Regardless of boiler size (as covered by this code)…
The Accumulation test (Steam Test) should be carried out in accordance with section 11 of the code being discussed.
There appears to be some confusion with the wording in section 14.6, however the reference to the first hydro test (1.5 x Pw) is actually the same one specified in section 14.3… it does NOT mean the STEAM TEST which should never be at any higher pressure than PL (PW +10%). As per section 11.
For the 1.5 x PW hydro test (with all fittings attached) there is provision to remove the Pressure gauge if it has insufficient range… the same applies to the Safety Valve, since this has been previously calibrated and set… which can either be removed and replaced with a blanking plate/plug or it can be clamped shut… it should never be reset to 1.5 x Pw just to meet the 1.5 x Pw test pressure.
When we perform the boiler testing on the VIC 32 puffer we are bound by the
Pressure Systems Safety Regulations 2000, just as Greg is with GONDOLA and when it is required to perform the 1.5x Pw Hydro Test, it is necessary to clamp the safety valve in order for this to happen. Removal is not necessary and Adjustment to the higher pressure is not valid (it is not designed for that pressure (this could also be the case for many model safety valves)).
The 1.5x Pw Hydro Test and the subsequent Steam accumulation test are both carried out with the VIC 32 afloat.
It was me that posted the New Regs on the other site and it has stirred up quite a hornets nest. :((
As for Insurance… I think it would be wise to carefully study the SMALL PRINT where this is supposedly covered by Home Insurance… I think you will find that there are conditions applied (but not necessarily obvious) that some form of written document stating safety compliance is required should it be necessary to make a valid claim. <*<
I would find it hard to believe any Insurance company would be willing to cover any NON-Certified Steam BOILER.
I hope this helps calm the waters somewhat.
Best Regards.
AlexC :-)) :D AKA Sandcam or SandyC
So to get my mind clear on the subject and considering Gregs claim that under no circumstances should a boiler be subjected to 1.5 x wP working steam pressure, to perform the steam test on a boiler after the first Hydraulic test it must be raised to 1.5 x wP and then re- tested with the pre- set S.V. to the designed wP 10%
Hi George,
Not quite right George... The first Hydro test is performed at 2 x PW and is a once off test. (other than if a repair, or modification, dictates it being repeated**)
The second (or any subsequent) hydro test (if required) is performed at 1.5 x Pw with all fittings attached (other than the Pressure gauge and/or safety valve if they are not set/suitable for the test pressure).
For boilers of 3 bar litre or less then this 1st 1.5 x PW hydro test does not need to be repeated and both this test and the previous 2 x Pw hydro test are valid for the life of the boiler.(again, the only exception would be if a repair, or modification, made it necessary**)
The Steam Accumulation test is then performed at Pw under full burner conditions.
The allowance is Pw 10% (this being PL) with the safety blowing.
There is no 1.5 x Pw steam test called for (at any stage of a boilers life) in any of the regulations since this would be a violation of section 11.8 (Pressure Limit PL)
The confusion is caused by the wording in section 14.6 where the bracketed (1.5x Pw) actually refers to the first (or subsequent) hydro test as per section 14.3... Not the STEAM TEST.
The only ANNUAL repeat test required for a boiler of 3Bar/Litres or less is the Steam test.
Which must be performed at MAX 14 months intervals.
** any repair or modification made to the boiler shell, or change to the setting of the safety valve and/or pressure gauge, must be reported to the Tester. It is then his decision which determines if the Hydro test/s need to be re done).
If such changes are not notified then the user is in breech of the code and his current certificates would be void... as would be his insurance, or any claim made under the insurance policy in such a case. <*<
I hope that makes it a bit more clear George.
Best regards.
Sandy. :-))
EDIT... Jerry has got it correct... the only thing to remember though is that the testing must be performed by a authorised TESTER who will then issue the necessary certificates on satisfactory completion. Self testing is not legal for certification purposes, although you can perform them for your own satisfation prior to an Authorised test.
Well said Ian. So good to see that us old steamers can have a discussion without getting steamed up. Strange how a missing comma or a small word can cause so much confusion.
George, have a nice meeting tomorrow. I hope the weather stays fine for you.
Jerry.
On reading Ians post with reference to Westbury and Harris it made me wonder why I was so sure that Clause 14.3 refered to 1.5 x wP as a steam test so I decided to look up Harris's book on boilers and testing and low and behold way back in 1967 K.N.Harris quotes that the steam test should be no more than 25% of the boilers wP and to acheive that the safety valve was adjusted and then returned to it's original setting. ( pages 126-127-128 ) you will remember them Ian way back then and how simple and efficient it all seams.