Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Navy - Military - Battleships: => Topic started by: polaris on June 01, 2007, 09:13:18 pm
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Dear All,
Does anyone have a colour p.graph. of a WW2 Royal Navy Walrus amphibian aircraft - preferably one from/on a cruiser. I need a second opinion!
Regards, Bernard2
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Hi there Polaris, if its any good - I have the colour scheme for the Matchbox 1:72 scale Royal Navy Walrus.
If any good I will dig it out and email or post to you whatever is best.
Aye
john e
bluebird
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Hi Bernard2 is this any good.
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Dear John & Dicky,
Thankyou very much for your Posts, and I reply in order. Firstly though, the trouble is there seems to have been no hard and fast rule with colour schemes, though obviously the area of operations did sometimes require certain changes. I have a p.graph of a RN Walrus at a museum, but the trouble is it shows an all black tail fin (not the tail wings), and something tells me this isn't quite right. There are plenty of b&w p.graphs of course, but these are not of much help one way and another due to shading and silhouette 'problems', so, to date, I have completed this 1:96 aircraft following the museum example of a grass green/mud colours... however, I am not happy with the black tail fin! - it simply does not look right... at least for an HMS Belfast anyway.
John, your offer is much appreciated. However, assuming that your p.graph shows a similar tail fin camouflage 'continuation', I think Dicky's picture answers the question. I am not going to change the colours already used (grass green/mud), as they look good and were a gnrl. colour, it's just that I was/am not happy with the black tail fin idea from the museum example - it just didn't look right! - partic. on a navy plane.
Dicky, thankyou very much for your ill., it does seem to answer my question very well, and the gnrl. colours nearly match what I have used. I don't think there is/was any hard and fast rule, these planes were painted in what was available and there was not necessarily complete continuity of things like paint supply during wartime - things were done as near as possible rather than following precise shade charts I should imagine! I will now change the black tail to match the tail in your ill.. It looks like a painting, am I right?
Again, thankyou both very much for taking the trouble to reply. Much appreciated.
Regards, Bernard2
p.s. The Belfast project comes on well, and with a bit of luck a couple more months will see her 90% completed.
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As preserved at the RNAS museum Yeovilton
If you search Google pictures for " Supermarine Walrus" there are a lot of photos - most are wartime black and white of course !
Don B.
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Hi ya there
here's the cat amongst the pigeons - the top picture of the scan shows the Royal Navy Walrus from HMS Sheffield 1938 - she was completely silver, an aluminium colour. The bottom picture is painted in three colours, graphite grey, RAL7024 - green RAL6028 - light blue RAL6027
Hope this is of some help and just to add a bit more confusion ;D
aye
john e
bluebird
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I found a reference which records that all the silver paint schemes were changed to camouflage after 1939. It seems strange to have colours like that on sea carried aircraft but this photo seems to confirm it.
( Fascinating the subjects we end up researching isn't it ?)
Don
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Dear John and Don,
Thankyou both very much for your trouble.
John, yours futher confirms what I thought about the tail fin not being right in black - at least for the period I want anyway. Pre WW2 I am not surprised about silver (or aluminium finish), obviously no need for camouflage and silver seemed to be a popular finish on aircraft in those days.
Don, excellent museum picture, and this in addition to everything I have seen, determines that the tail fin is most certainly not to be black. A small detail I suppose, but one that I want to get right all the same. Do you happen to know which ship this example is flying from? It's not one I recognise immediately, and I note the funnel just forward and between the hangers - and also the early model 8 barrel multi Pom Pom. I think this ship is possibly a bit larger than a cruiser, or, maybe one of the 4 funnel cruisers.
Thankyou again for your help.
Regards, Bernard2
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Dear Bernard2
I think, with a wild guess, the picture that our Welsh Druid (Don) has put on here, could be the battleships either Duke of York /King George V. (that class of battleship)
Looking at the armament at deck level and the search light platform mounted on the aft of the funnel, this is what I am basing my research on.
aye
john e
bluebird
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It's almost certainly a KGV class battleship. In addition to the recognition details mentioned above you can see the 5.25 inch secondary armament turret.
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Well how about this one - is it more indentifiable ?
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Didn't know we had a vessel called WARSHIP... ;)
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..... or even Queen Elizabeth Class Warship HMS Warspite ;D
this is not another topic what's this ship? ;D ;D ;D
aye
john e
bluebird
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Dear Don,
Where on earth are you getting these excellent Walrus p.graphs. from! This is the best pic. yet to give a side angle silhouette of the engine and prop.. I have a good pic. of a Walrus on the catapult of a ship I believe to be HMS Howe, but I can't get it to copy on here. If you would like it as an attachment I would be pleased to email it to you direct... and maybe you can work out how to post it on here!
Thankyou again for your help - and indeed all who have contributed.
Regards, Bernard2
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The attached photo is reputed to be a Walrus being launched from HMS Belfast (provided by an old member of the crew in his memoirs). Note the letter on the nose.
( http://www.wardetectives.info/projects/wardetectives/wewillremember/inve0036d.htm)
Also have you heard of the book "The Cruiser HMS Belfast " which is said to have many detail photos of the ship AND its aircraft ?
Author- Ross Watson, Publisher Conway Maritime Press, ISBN number 0-85177-956-5
If you can find it - may be of help to you ?
Don B
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Dear Don,
Thankyou for your trouble. Lovely pic., I found this website about a month ago, and it is v.interesting isn't it.
Thanks for mentioning it, but I use Ross Wattons "Anatomy of the Ship HMS Belfast" as the 'ships bible' for the work that is being done (have both edits. to be safe!) - 90% of deck fittings have been determined/ordered from this excellent book. Indeed, for all important tech./design detail I have found no better to date; however, a lot of additional research has had to be done to get 'basic' points cleared up - I must add that I have had invaluable help by tech. illustrations and p.graphs of models of Belfast from a professional builder. 'My' Belfast is being built not to any specific date (impossible to do), but to be an image of the vessel between 1939 - 45. Every real life p.graph I have seen of Belfast between these dates has been different, so I want to include things that were on her between these dates by way of example of what she carried and how she looked at one time or another between 39/45.. It would be very easy to spoil things if this isn't done properly I know, but believe me, many months of thought have gone into the project (before any work was started on the hull and superstructure - bought in a good basic part completed state), and I am sure she will look 'rather nice'! - including me, four people are working on different parts/Depts. of the vessel, and I hope to have everything back here in about a month or so, and I can then start the Final Fitting out. I can certainly see why these Edinburgh Class Cruisers cost so much to build in real life!!!!!! - one can only.... :D!!!
Thanks again, and if you would like that HMS Howe p.graph of a Walrus ready for launching on the catapult (with numerous crew about), please let me know. (I have tried to copy/paste to all sorts of diff. things, but can't get it onto here) - seem to have done something, but don't know if it's worked until it arrives on the Board!
Regards, Bernard2
(http://)
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Hi Bernard2
You cant copy and paste.
You have to copy and paste to "Your pictures"
When you want to post them on the site you first have to check the size of them. If they total more than 256KB you have to resize them.
To resize right click your mouse on the picture.
Click on resize picture in new window.
Select a size will come up, click on small
You are now ready to go.
Enter your comments in the reply box.
Click on "Additional Options"
Click on Browse
When window opens go to your picture file and double click on the picture you want to post, the one marked [small]
You have now attached your picture.
If you want to attach another one click on "more attachment" and repeat.
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Dear Dicky,
Thankyou for the advice. Will try tomorrow. Don't think that Walrus of yours will fly! ;D
Regards, Bernard2
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Bernard,
That isnt a walrus, its a self portrait!! :)
Bob
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;D ;D ;D
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Dear Dicky,
Thankyou for the advice. Will try tomorrow. Don't think that Walrus of yours will fly! ;D
Regards, Bernard2
Self portrait indeed. This is what happens when you try to help somebody ::) ::)
Bernard, what do you mean "wont fly" how do you think it got there----- by swimming ?? ::)
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Maybe this helps... http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/Aircraft/Walrus.htm
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...and this ... http://www.jpsmodell.de/dc/main_e.htm
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Firstly. Jan, thankyou for the links. I have seen the largest of the ills. before somewhere else, but I like one of the other p.graphs there. The 'colour chart' site is interesting in general.
Dicky, umm., a Submarine Walrus! ;D
Regards, Bernard
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Hi,
Have you had a look at the online photo archives at the Imperial War Museum website ? They have about two dozen shots of the Walrus online. A couple of samples below.
http://www.iwmcollections.org.uk/qryPhotoImg.asp
Regards
Danny
(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s4/danm3rd/A_009270Small.jpg)
(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s4/danm3rd/A_009272Small.jpg)
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Entirely from memory, I think that for a ship-based aircraft the upper surfaces should be in a disruptive pattern of Extra Dark Sea Grey and Dark Slate Grey. These two colours are so dingy and alike in tone that they may look one colour in a b/w photo. The undersurfaces would be in Sky, a sort of duck egg green/blue.
Walruses also operated, mainly land-based in North Africa, in the conventional RAF Dark Green/Dark Earth.
As I noted in an earlier post, the proportions of the roundels and fin flash changed in about 1942.
You can buy accurately matched colours from White Ensign Models.
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Many thanks for the info.
Regards, Bernard2
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1937 Sea Gladiator for example.
http://www.jpsmodell.de/dc/draw/faa_gladi_sea1a.jpg
There are several shemes, Day or night, sea or landbased, own planes or lend-lease planes, tropical sheme... and it depends on the year.
I have a FAA F-6F Hellcat here, painted in sea based sheme, must be somewhere around d-day because it has the d-day stripes. She was based on the HMS Emperor.
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Another source of aircraft colours is Exrtacolour. These are available from Hannants in Lowestoft or from thier shop near Hendon (0208 205 6697).
Holmsey