Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: Martin (Admin) on May 03, 2009, 06:09:08 am
-
Thanks guys, very informative.
4. (7:40) A command is called to raise the White Enson, it sounds like, "Pipe the Silk." ~ does that sound right?
5. (7:50) A seaman yells " Hands to station for leaving harbour. Special sea duty men close up."
~ Who are the Special sea duty men and what does it mean to "close up?"
6. (9:25) As the ship starts to leave harbour, a command is called "Key 49 hoist", which I take to be the ships ident No.
~ Is that the norm that navel vessels only fly identity flags when under way?
7. The officer that calls out the above, is on the compass platform, who is he and what's his duty?
8. Does anyone have they layout diagram of a Flower class Covettet?
-
6. (9:25) As the ship starts to leave harbour, a command is called "Key 49 hoist", which I take to be the ships ident No.
~ Is that the norm that navel vessels only fly identity flags when under way?
7. The officer that calls out the above, is on the compass platform, who is he and what's his duty?
Hello Martin,
The answer on question 6: In the Dutch navy that indeed is the case, don't know it for sure for other navy's, but that could be.
Answer on question 7: That sounds to me like it is the captain, who should be somewhere near there anyway when leaving the port.
Greetings Josse
-
The view from the other side...tonight (sat 2nd May`09) "Das Boot", BBC 2 11.40pm. German with sub titles if you see what they mean.
Just finished watching Das Boot... again!
Anybody else watch it?
I seemed to me the subtitles were quite a bit different to the DVD.
On a bit late for me but it was described as "the director`s cut" maybe that explains differences in sub-titles?
-
Hi you may find this link of interest.
http://theflowerclasscorvetteforums.yuku.com/topic/575/t/New-Image-HMS-Coreopsis-RHN-Kriezis---filming---Cruel-Sea.html
-
Martin
If you Google 'Flower Class Corvette' you can spend days researching the vessel.
My own 'Bluebell' was from a Matchbox kit of some 25 years ago and is undergoing refit at present.
I got interested because an uncle was in atlantic escorts during the war and it is interesting to hear tell of the different mods
made to individual ships. So if you want an accurate model you have to pick a name and a specific date
because, as I understand it, bits were being modified and changed throughout the life of a particular vessel.
Cheers
Mark
-
Thanks guys, very informative.
4. (7:40) A command is called to raise the White Enson, it sounds like, "Pipe the Silk." ~ does that sound right?
5. (7:50) A seaman yells " Hands to station for leaving harbour. Special sea duty men close up."
~ Who are the Special sea duty men and what does it mean to "close up?"
6. (9:25) As the ship starts to leave harbour, a command is called "Key 49 hoist", which I take to be the ships ident No.
~ Is that the norm that navel vessels only fly identity flags when under way?
7. The officer that calls out the above, is on the compass platform, who is he and what's his duty?
8. Does anyone have they layout diagram of a Flower class Covettet?
Re Original question 4 - In the RN you cannot salute or return a salute from a junior properly unless wearing the prescribed headgear. Caps are worn inside the ship for formal occasions such as Captain's requestmen or defaulters (when plenty of salutes take place) but not otherwise. I presume that scene was in just to show how inexperienced the junior officer was.
Re latest q4 - I suspect it was "Pipe the Still" (i haven't got the film to hand to check) which is to indicate that everyone on the upper decks should stand to attention on the upper deck while Colours is taking place.
Q5 - Special Sea Duty Men are those members of the ship's company pre allocated specific tasks which require extra skill or training because the ship is in a situation requiring extra care and/or additional people closed up beyond that in normal cruising watches - for example sounding the depth, someone to manage the engine orders seperately from steering the ship etc.
Q6 - Perhaps "Kay 49 hoist" ? Warships hoist their pennant numbers in confined waters to make it easier for other ships and the port control authorities to see who you are.
Q7 - Again without seeing the film again not sure who exactly but this order would normally come from the Yeoman (a Petty officer) or Leading Signalman depending on whether Compass Rose was big enough to have a Yeoman or not. He is responsible for overseeing all the visual signalling that needs to take place.
If you want more of this sort of thing watch "In which we Serve" next!
Francis Macnaughton
-
This was on BBC Radio 4 today - The Cruel Sea, dramatised by John Fletcher.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/b01cj83p
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01cj83p
The Cruel Sea is the story of the crew of a newly commissioned corvette, Compass Rose, a ship that forms part of the escort to merchant convoys during World War II. The crew are mostly inexperienced men from non-naval backgrounds and the story focuses on their differing reactions to the horrifying experiences they have as German U-boats attack their convoys with increasing success. Some will survive the war, and some won't - but all of them will be changed by their experiences.
But this isn't just a war story. In a surprisingly subtle way, The Cruel Sea also chronicles the often abrasive process by which classes, previously unknown to each other, were thrown together onboard ship and had to learn to rub along - and how the earned respect, in the long term, led to the future Welfare State and the social equity and cooperation of the 50's and 60's.
The novel, published in 1951, was an immediate success and it has never been out of print since. It brings home the realities of the longest battle in the second world war, the Battle for the Atlantic, but it does so not through harrowing depiction of the horrors involved, but through its detailed depiction the people involved, people we come to care about, to admire, and to mourn.
... I'll try and record it for our foreign sailors!
-
I didn't put it on the Who have you met, but seeing this thread thought I would mention that I met the author Nicholas Monserrat in May 1975. He was a guest of my skipper Sir Nicholas Hunt and came on-board for lunch the first day we arrived in Malta. I knew he was coming on board as I typed the invite without any clue as to who he was - he was just one of a few invites made by the skipper and I later sent him the skippers thank you letter. The skipper called into the ships office where I worked which was opposite his day cabin and introduced him to me and I politely shook his hand and he asked me how I liked the mob and chatted for a couple of minutes about where was I from etc. When he was gone and my chief came back I asked him in nautical language just who on earth Nicholas Monserrat was. I wish I had been a little older and wiser then and not an 18yo unappreciative sprog. I realised later actually how privileged I was rather than my thoughts then of 'yeah whatever'.
-
watched the cruel sea last night about the forth time,, question why did the ships not have covered bridges
-
Having served on two ships with open bridges, I
often asked myself the same question.
The last one was my Avatar HMS Echo in the mid
70,'s.
It was a nightmare maintaining all the geophysics
equipment needed for Hydro graphic Surveys when
it was open to the elements.
How many times have heard the helmsman shout
Coffee as we hit a milestone and the wave broke over
the bridge.
Mind she was only a 100ft long wooden ship so quite
lively.
Ned
-
i was told ' so that crew could spot for enemy air activity'.
-
watched the cruel sea last night about the forth time,, question why did the ships not have covered bridges
Only the fourth time Regiment???....yer slackin me lad.
Did anyone see the programme on Beeb 2............. 20.00 - 21.00 hours last night about Malta GC.
brought tears to my eyes when they showed the footage of the SS Ohio limping in to port at Grand Harbour, Valetta....they were so so brave as a nation.
neil.
-
This one?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01pvbl8
-
Saw it Neil.
Lump in throat while explaining it to SWIMBO.
Her best friend is Maltese and her Mother who
lived through it as a young girl has never spoken about it.
Ned
-
i was told ' so that crew could spot for enemy air activity'.
HMS Warrior had an open bridge.
Not many aircraft to spot in the 1860's %%
Someone told you a porky Martin.
Ned
-
Open bridge on the smaller ships -
1. visibility both of what was going on in the outside world and on board
2. local communication (the ability to see and shout at the crew)
2a. so that the captain could see and be seen
3. possibly the compass was more reliable outside a steel box with the technology of the day
4. and, above all, it was probably considered more manly and character building. All that fast moving fresh air, ideal for keeping a clear head.
-
Not being in the navy, (though my eldest sprog was trying - has to wait three years now), i assume closing up is shutting any hatches / doors etc to the elements to prevent ingress of water :} , the anotomy series book will give you a layout, though from memory, the rear section was taken up mostly by the engine.
As for mods - more like ommissions, in the book it mentions that some arnament was dummy as they had nothing available, and in some cases was anything they could get their hands on, mine has an airfix single bofors in the rear bandstand and a German 88 - yes an 88 on the forward bandstand - looks better than the kit version. :D
-
Open bridge on the smaller ships -
1. visibility both of what was going on in the outside world and on board
2. local communication (the ability to see and shout at the crew)
2a. so that the captain could see and be seen
3. possibly the compass was more reliable outside a steel box with the technology of the day
4. and, above all, it was probably considered more manly and character building. All that fast moving fresh air, ideal for keeping a clear head.
I used to work with a guy whose dad was a 'vette skipper on western approach duty , might have seemed 'manly'. . . did NOTHING for the complexion {:-{ he was known as 'old LEATHER FACE'
Bill
-
Regarding Das Boot.
The English Audio and English Subtitles for the directors cut are different. The Subtitles were transcribed from the German language script, which is closer to the original book. The English Audio was made slightly different as it was done in so many different versions and some of the countries which received the English version were deemed to be a little more open to being offended.
If you watch something like the scene with the crewmen in their bunks describing their intimate conquests, you'll see that the subtitles offer a much more.....in depth.....commentary!
-
The last one was my Avatar HMS Echo in the mid
70,'s.
Ned
Hi Ned,
Was this the ship that became the Marine Society's "Earl of Romney? If so I remember a trip we made with a party of Sea Scouts to Alderney in gale force winds - very lively - many seasick Scouts - but great fun!
Dave.
-
She was that ship .
Rather bouncy in a blow.
Ned
-
"Close up", means to go to your station. When each station has its complement it reports "closed up". eg. Order,"40/60 gun crew close up and clear away". When gun manned and ready to load report, "40/60 gun crew closed up, gun ready".
Jerry.
-
HMS Warrior had an open bridge.
Not many aircraft to spot in the 1860's %%
Someone told you a porky Martin.
Ned
I was only thinking of WWII era ships.... :-)
-
This one?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01pvbl8 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01pvbl8)
yes Martin....that's the one............worth watching if you missed it.
neil.
-
Yes, watched it this evening, very good, although the BBC (?) made a much better one a few years ago based around the navy and the blockage runners.
Very intersting about the first ships not being unloaded and sunk at their mornings!!! :o
-
I was once told by an old WW2 yeoman of signals that the Admiralty believed it was easier to
conn and fight a destroyer (or smaller ship ) if it had an open bridge - Also weight was a critical factor
as the bridge roof , windows and framework would probably equate to a couple of 20mm oerlikons.
Had 2 1/2 yrs on an open bridged Battle class - fantastic out in the far east and the med. A right pain
when we went up to the Arctic Circle
Geoff
-
Not being in the navy, (though my eldest sprog was trying - has to wait three years now), i assume closing up is shutting any hatches / doors etc to the elements to prevent ingress of water :} , the anotomy series book will give you a layout, though from memory, the rear section was taken up mostly by the engine.
As for mods - more like ommissions, in the book it mentions that some arnament was dummy as they had nothing available, and in some cases was anything they could get their hands on, mine has an airfix single bofors in the rear bandstand and a German 88 - yes an 88 on the forward bandstand - looks better than the kit version. :D
One of the early RCN corvettes left Canada without a gun on the fo'c'sle - just an empty gun shield, with a piece of wood substituting fore the barrel. As if that wasn't bad enough, the 'gun barrel' developed a pronounced droop during the voyage to the U.K. How embarrassing!
Tom
-
A little of track........ :embarrassed:
One of our HMA DDG's arrived back at Garden Island from a RIMPAC exercise with what appeared to be two Rathon CWIS gatling guns???????????????? O0
Turned out that the skipper was very imaginative ....they were each made from a 44 gallon drum with a dome on the top & six pieces of 1/2"NB water pipe as barrels
Our DDG also had its pennant number painted over.......... :o
This then placed the US vessels as not prepared to send a wargame Tomahawk missile at the ship as the silhouette showed she had CWIS capability {-)
Cruel sea these war games.........Derek
-
It's been back on again, watched it twice now, would love to know why they may have missed picking the sub on the asdic, was it range.
The scene where there were men in the water and they thought it was a sub - could it not have been the sinking ship they had just been thrown from as it went to the bottom - all ships become subs when they sink below the waves - ideally they should have circled and picked up the survivors before determining if it was the sinking vessel - just my opinion.
-
I know it's a film, but would a WWII Captain have authority to do depth charge in an area of people in the water??
-
What a film brings back many a memory of when I joined my first ship it was tradition to watch the film on a Sunday and all new joiners had to wear foul weather gear for the duration.
-
Hi,
If memory serves me right, preservation of life was secondary to the fighting abilty/capability of the ship; fight, float, move etc.
And I was one of those with the baptisim of the cruel sea in foulies :-))
Rich
-
I know it's a film, but would a WWII Captain have authority to do depth charge in an area of people in the water??
It is not a question of "authority" The CO of a warship had virtual "carte blanche" to do as he thought fit in any given situation. His orders, probably, were to escort and protect convoys from any enemy activity, if that meant dropping depth charges on a suspected contact that was taking shelter under survivors then so be it; after all what was the loss of a few survivors to the destruction of a U-Boat that could be the cause of many hundreds, maybe thousands of deaths. Remember also that Nicholas Monsarrett wrote from experience, and that peoples attitude to life was not so soft as it is now, mores the pity.
LB
-
It's been back on again, watched it twice now, would love to know why they may have missed picking the sub on the asdic, was it range.
The scene where there were men in the water and they thought it was a sub - could it not have been the sinking ship they had just been thrown from as it went to the bottom - all ships become subs when they sink below the waves - ideally they should have circled and picked up the survivors before determining if it was the sinking vessel - just my opinion.
The "Men In The Water".....When I was a lowly 3/O on "Norseman" circa 1962, our Ch.Steward used to find work as an"extra" in films. One of them was "The Cruel Sea". He was one of the guys in the water when Jack Hawkins drove his ship through them.
It was all done in a shallow "pool" at the studio...in fact all the "swimmers" were actually standing on the pool bottom and just thrashing about. The Corvette was only a DIY mock-up of the bow area pushed along from the (unseen) back of it. Apparently all good fun, but he recalled that the water was brass-monkeys cold. BY.
-
It's been back on again, watched it twice now, would love to know why they may have missed picking the sub on the asdic, was it range.
The scene where there were men in the water and they thought it was a sub - could it not have been the sinking ship they had just been thrown from as it went to the bottom - all ships become subs when they sink below the waves - ideally they should have circled and picked up the survivors before determining if it was the sinking vessel - just my opinion.
You mean drop rafts for the survivors. With a uboat around, I don't think a captain dare stop to lower a boat.
Watched a bit of this on TV the other day: Ericson orders abandon ship and a man 'losing his head' jumps from the gunwhale unprepared, next scene is 'Tonbridge', the seaboats coxswain(?) who takes a few seconds to prepare himself, adjusting his lifebelt, see it is inflated, etc. We see Tonbridge again by a carley float calling for survivors, you don't see the unprepared guy.
p.s. about the original question to 'pipe the silk'. I don't think the ensign was ever called silk, maybe he said 'pipe the ship'?
-
It would be the Still
The still is a single note shrill pipe
when anyone on the upper deck comes to attention and faces
aft as the ensign is raised or lowered.
The next pipe is the carry on. A shrill note that goes lower
at the tail off.
Ned.
-
BBC Radio 4 Extra: Nicholas Monsarrat - The Cruel Sea. Searing tale of how the Second World War was fought in the North Atlantic.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01qxyw3
-
Watching HMS Barham roll over and explode her magazines under hundreds of crew shows me what a U Boat can do, so while sad, if killing a few sailors means that a sub cannot kill hundreds, then it is worth it. Without doubt, a good number of those on Barham would have been under eighteens.
-
BBC Radio 4 Extra: Nicholas Monsarrat - The Cruel Sea. Searing tale of how the Second World War was fought in the North Atlantic.http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01qxyw3
What a co-incidence! Last night I was searching for stuff on Flower-Class and I found this on YouTube and listened to it all. Very good. Thing is, having watched the film so many times, I know the script by heart!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LDkgcSex9o
BTW: Here it is from the man himself Donald Sinden (First Lt.) on how some scenes were filmed .....................
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRp9n5imXzo
-
..... having watched the film so many times, I know the script by heart!!
Me too! O0
-
My muttering in advance drives my wife mad! {-)
Was there ever a better British war film acted like this? I don't think so.
Slight boob though - Did anyone else spot the depth-charge markings? Hardly likely in action in wartime!
-
I would have liked to have watched that, but it is only a radio adaptation. There is a film on youTube, but it is only the centre of the screen, peoples heads cut off above the mouth etc. Being B&W it is unlikely to be shown on television nowadays, so if you want to see it buy the DVD from Amazon at £14.50