Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Navy - Military - Battleships: => Topic started by: hmsantrim on October 20, 2013, 03:39:10 am
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Hello can anyone tell me the BS paint code for the 1970s Royal Navy deck green.
Cheers :P
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Hi,
Try:
http://www.shipcamouflage.com/3_7.htm (http://www.shipcamouflage.com/3_7.htm)
or
http://www.steelnavy.com/wem_colourcoats.htm (http://www.steelnavy.com/wem_colourcoats.htm)
Regards
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Mid Brunswick green.....BS381 226 :-))
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Humbrol matt 88 green is what |I use on decks for that era
Geoff
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Years back I got given the painting history for Plymouth by a kind soul at Defence Standards.
Her deck green was BS4800 14C39 (no names for the BS4800 series). Phoenix paints do it in various sizes or you can simply go to a paint shop and get it mixed up. If we in Oz can get it mixed up at hardware shops and paint shops, in the UK you should have no problems at all. The anti slip treads from thta era were a bit lighter shade of green.
FYI, the Humbrol Deck Green is not like the RN's deck green, it is a lighter "less green" colour.
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Hi,
Found what I was looking for.
I use these in Photoshop.
Regards
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That was WW2, the RN changed colours after that.
After dumping the green in 1978, they switched to BS381C 632 Dark Admiralty Grey or as an alternate BS381C 638 Dark Sea Grey. When decks were green, these two greys were the flight deck colours. If you look at a BS381C swatch, these colours are almost identical.
An alternate for 14C39 if it wasn't available was BS381C 226 Mid Brunswick Green which is not Humbrol's Deck Green. Unlike the greys which were formulated as anti slip paint, the greens were high gloss which made them dangerous when wet.
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An alternate for 14C39 if it wasn't available was BS381C 226 Mid Brunswick Green which is not Humbrol's Deck Green.
Medway I think you will find it was BS381C was the paint used... :-))
The BS numbers are british standard numbers which mean they have to conform to set standards
BS4800 is paint used in the construction trade (houses offices etc)
BS386 is paint used in special locations with a letter code after to note what type of special location
Also big bri who I know well will be right in his paint colour as he had painted enough decks in his time in the navy (probably as a punishment O0 )
Plymouth possibly used the BS4800 paint whilst a museum ship as it's cheaper and easier to get your hands on than the BS381 paint
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NO, it was BS4800 that was used and is still used. The green lino/floor covering inside the Type 45s is the old deck green colour.
BS4800 was designed for use in construction but a colour is a colour is a colour & can be used anywhere. I also got confrirmation of the colour from Leigh's who made the paint and the RNZN who also used this colour.
The history I got was from day one & came from Defence Standards in Glasgow who kept the painting records of all RN ships. He also explained that BS4800 & 5252 18B25 and BS2660 9-097 are the same as BS381C 632 Dark Admiralty Grey and that BS4800 & 5252 14C39 and BS2660 6-074 are the “near equivalent/practical equivalent” to BS381C 226 Mid Brunswick Green.
Extract from his email is below:
re-HMS Plymouth
The superstructure of the Rothesay Class Type 12 frigate (HMS Plymouth) at new build (1961) was Light Admiralty Grey to BS 381C and the decks were painted to BS 4800 colour 14C39 green.
Between 1966 and 1969, HMS Plymouth underwent a major conversion refit in conjunction with DG Ship specifications (these fall in our area now since 1st April). At the time of the repaint, the superstructure became Light Weatherwork Grey BS381C:676 (W&L Leigh Paint Co's number H766). and the decks stayed BS 4800 colour 14C39. Thus, these colours were the operational colours in 1975.
FYI, I have attached a defstan showing the usage of BS4800 in RN ships.
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I was chippies mate on one of the ships I served on in the mid seventies ( Hms Salisbury) and can assure you it was BS381C 226 Mid Brunswick Green procured and used. So my recommendation is based purely on personal experience :-))
And yes Ging, I have spread more than my fair share of that muck on the decks, but not as a punishment though, but just for the twisted amusement of the buffer I think O0
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So chap's which direction should I take the seamans code or down unders code. Or just both made! %)
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If you read the guy from DefStan’s comment BS4800 & 5252 18B25 and BS2660 9-097 are the same as BS381C 632 Dark Admiralty Grey and that BS4800 & 5252 14C39 and BS2660 6-074 are the “near equivalent/practical equivalent” to BS381C 226 Mid Brunswick Green, we are both right. 226 can be used instead of 14C39 as can 18B25 be used instead of 632 etc. Somewhere on my PC I have some painting instructions issued by Chatham Dockyard on the repainting of HMS Minerva. As well as details of the colour & width of the flight deck markings etc., the instructions included those for the decks as to be 14C39 or if not available BS381C 226. Dammed if I can find it now but I have found the attached fragment of an NES regarding painting of Survey Vessels.
Down Under here is from Kent hence my user name. I’m a member of the Chatham Dockyard Historical Trust and used to come home every year for work and spend a week or so off visiting relatives and “rummaging” amongst the records held by the trust and out at the National Archives in Kew. There is a lot of uncatalogued info in Chatham but the Trust is more about the workings of the Dockyard than the RN.
Big Bri is in the right place for this as my contact in DefStan, Directorate of Standardization worked at Kentigern House in Glasgow.
I’ve got several sets of BS381C including the original 1930 edition and BS4800 standards. Looking at the two colours, 226 to the eye seems to be just a slightly darker version of 14C39.
BTW If you don’t want large quantities of paint, try Phoenix Paints. They are model railway specialists and can do BS381C & BS4800 colours in lustreless (flat!), low sheen or gloss in cans from the Humbrol size upwards. I used them until I discovered that my local paint shop could mix the colours up for me.
http://www.phoenix-paints.co.uk/standard-colours/roundhouse-touch-up-colours.html (http://www.phoenix-paints.co.uk/standard-colours/roundhouse-touch-up-colours.html)
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Hi,
When in doubt go with the Chippies Mate.
He has practical experience.
There again I am not a rivet counter.
Regards
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You`ve received some very informed info Frank, so the choice is up to you matey, regardless of the choice, post up the results and let us all have a look see :-))
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So chap's which direction should I take the seamans code or down unders code. Or just both made! %)
just mix the 2 together and you can,t go wrong, {-) {-) {-)
only joking, but I would go with the chippy, you would use what was issued.
john
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But don't forget the "Scale Distance" correction factor. Caused quite a stir ( Bad pun) on toy aircraft scale judging. The original full size look a different shade with distance.
Regards Ian.
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Try White Ensign Models they do a good range od Admitalty enamel paints.
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When I started in 1974 in the PAS, we used the same deck paint as warships, it was a awful paint to use and caused a lot of rust. The paint was none slip, olive green - the none slip part was grit mixed into the paint. But the cans had olive green none slip stamped on the side plus a store number and claw mark. The paint was trailed on or smeared, it used to wear out long tom brushes very quickly.
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I joined the P A S in 1974, then we used the same deck paint as the RN, the tins were marked olive green none slip , plus the store number and claw mark.
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That paint was used throughout my time in the RN
60's and 70's.
You needed a broom handle to stir it and get the grit/sand
mixed in.
I was basically daubed on as Dodes said.
Impossible to paint normally.
Just glad painting was not a Tiffies part of ship.
Even the Chippy had 'mates' to do it.
Ned
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The colour used by the RN & RMAS etc. was different. The RMAS used BS381C 220 Olive Green.
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Hi Mudway, when I joined the PAS at HMDyd Chatham in 1973, we used RN deck none skid paint. In those days matelots' painted their own ships and the basin sides by RN ships all had their own waste skips, by which empty paint cans were stowed, often half used or sometimes full cans were placed there as well for various reasons. Anyway as paint was sometimes times in short supply for the PAS we used to purloin these cans, that's how I know then that the paint was labelled Olive Green. When the RMAS came into being in 1976, the old deck paint was used up by the RMAS, as the RN had by now gone onto a different paint mix called Dado Green and soon introduced a two part mix paint for none slip on open decks. The reason was the old none slip with sand in it was found to cause heavy corrosion under it, as it was porous.
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My cousin was PAS & then RMAS in Chatham from the late 1970s.
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One thing I do remember well was we probably had more frigates and destroyers laid up in the basins then than is now total in the RN.
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Needs touching up a bit but genuine ex-RN paint O0
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/17905285/MVS/IMG_0657.png)
Next time I'm onboard I'll have a look at the tins and what's written on them.
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Looks like an old MoD boat too. Is it an old FML.
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Didn't ModPlod :police: have some Nelson 34's ?
Ned
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Yes, along with the Range Safety Group.
Bob
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Yep, full marks. She's a Nelson 34. She originally served with the Thames River Police, before being transferred to HM Customs at Dartmouth. She's now a vessel of the Maritime Volunteer Service (formerly RNXS), called MVS Curlew. There's a thread with a better picture of her on here in the full scale boats section, just search for her name :-))
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Hi,
Colour chip and application of Deck Green from McGherkin's photo... :}
Regards
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Sorry but I've had a bad week and my brain can't quite understand the plan attached or see what an ex Thames Police/Customs boat has to do with RN paint. They didn't use RN paint did they? I don't think the MOD Police boats did or do use RN paint either. {:-{
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Hi mudway,
The reason for the photo of the Ex Police/Custom boat is and I quote " genuine ex-RN paint.
This gives an idea of the colour we are trying to find.
I then used this to make a colour chip for my own use and the deck plan shows how the three shades look together.
I did this because most peoples idea of colour is not perfect.
Being an ex-photographer I balanced my Green colour by using a technique using an 18% Grey card.
That's the way I read it anyway.
Regards
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Yup, she's been repainted with ex-RN paint.
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Mudway,
The Police Boats were maintained by the RMAS Small Ships Group.
From Major Refit to running repairs so MoD paint used on them all.
As an aside, why did their name change to "Defence Police"?
Because an MoD Police Inspector thought MoD Police looked like MOO Police!!!
Bob
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Rickles,
Interesting that you use a photograph to work out a colour. I started in the 1980s trying to get the right colours for my Cleopatra. I couldn’t work out the correct colour from photos. Colours vary so much from the daylight, time of day to the printing process in books that I didn’t trust them. Out of curiosity, what colours do you come up with on the attached pdf? Three photos of the same model? The photos haven’t been played with, it is just a case of the same paint job taken at different times of the day and different angles.
In the 1990s, I discovered that RAN ships carried a book which listed the laid down colours and figured that as they had it, so would the RN. As it happens the Aust Book is ABR19 and the RN one is BR19.
Why, if you are going to try and work out the 1970s RN deck green with a photo, don’t you use a 1970s photo of a warship painted in the colours not a modern vessel which might be painted in it?
From photos on the MoD website, the RN Archer Class seem to use a lighter green on their decks in the University Squadrons. Is this the ex RN green on the Nelson? I’ve asked a couple of contacts over in the UK if they can tell me what deck green colour they are using. So far the only information is from someone who was on the old Exploit in the 1990s and said her decks were Olive Green and hull black. The Nelson paint also seems to be matt and anti-slip whereas the old deck green was high gloss paint. That seems to show up in the photos.
As the actual colours are known and laid down in DefStans and Naval Engineering Standards, why go through the photo matching process?
If you read old Airfix Magazine articles, Scale Models from the time or plans drawn up by people like Dave Sambrook, the colours are mentioned e.g. A & A’s plans for Danae have the deck colours etc. all written down from back in the days when the colours were still in use. Murphy’s Law, I only found this out after getting in touch with the relevant authorities about what the colours should be. I was going through my old Scale Models deciding whether to keep them on not and found articles with colour details for the RN and FAA. Then somebody gave me a copy of Danae’s plans.
My Mitre 10 in Sydney has all the colours in their paint mix computer, yours must do too. Just ask them.
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Hi mudway,
The answer to your question is by using the 18% Grey card technique.
All light meters are calibrated on this setting. It's halfway between theoretical pure white and theoretical pure black.
One of the things I look for is colour in shadow as it will show the better colour.
Also my colour sight is still rated at A1+ and I can see more colours than the 'normal' person.
One last thing is that I double checked the colour against some chips I made from a colour film of a Navy ship in World War Two.
The Green and the elusive Navy Grey were shown inside the ship and I took readings from these.
Taking a photo to a paint store has its problems as it would depend on the TYPE of paint used.
Matt, Satin and Gloss will produce a different shade of the same colour as will different brands.
Luckily I have access to a Paint Store who's owner is a boat modeller... ;)
Regards
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I still think the deck paint I have used is as near as the colour used in the 60s (humbrol 88)
as in the attached photo of HMS Aisne
Geoff
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We have been here before many times. It is pointless agonising about the exact paint hue as optical perception will greatly vary depending upon the lighting environment under which it is viewed and the degree of 'sheen' to the finish. Then there is the consideration that everyone's vision is different and people will perceive the colour in different ways according to their particular eyesight. Models will always look different to their full size counterparts as well.
Quite apart from that, when paint is applied it is of a particular hue which usually fades rapidly when exposed to sunlight and weathering.
So there is no 'definitive answer to this except that if it looks generally right you can be happy that it is right.
Colin
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Hi Colin,
Well said.
Regards
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I made a comment about the Archer Class and their lighter green decks and I've since got some info on them.
First via a PM from another member > [font=]The decks are a hard rubber mat. That is glued down in sections.[/size][/font]
[font=]Second this morning from a CPO serving on one > Hope you are well, the deck is not painted on the Archer class it is a rubberised decking which is Green but with no designator and varies from supplier and batch we receive. I had a look at a few and they are all different due to fading with age and light[/size][/font][/font]
Anyone building these seems to have the choice of any light green they feel looks right. :}
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Hi all,
That's why I just build models to keep ME happy.
I am not a rivet counter.
Regards
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Well if by river counter you mean someone who believes that if you spend a couple of years building a scale model and know the real colour, you paint it in the real colour rather than painting it a colour you fancy, then you would probably call me a rivet counter.
I’m not a rivet counter, my title is different. It will come as no surprise to you that in TF72 I’m known as the Paint Nazi having spent a lot of time getting the right colours for people. We have a few other “Nazis” like me in the club including the Funnel Nazi who has been known to pull funnels off of models because they look wrong. I’m not complaining as he did borrow my plans and make a superb funnel for me.
As we build all models to the same scale, any variances from scale of the same class are obvious. Also obvious is when several vessels of the same navy and class are manoeuvring together and one is a different colour to the rest. Stands out like a sore thumb. As I said, if you know the real colour, I figure you use it.
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Hi mudway,
So you would know Alan Pugh?
Regards
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Al is the gun or turret Nazi. :} Known him for about 30 years.
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Hi mudway,
You might be able to tell me:
where can I get 1/72 scale ship fittings WW2 or Flower class Corvette?
Regards
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Al has a load of WW2 fittings and guns. [email protected] He is closed for business for Xmas at the moment.
Sirmar used to do a nice fittings set for a Flower & Al has a 1/72 scale f/glass flower hull. Frontline Hobbies in Newcsatle used to stock the Flower Class kit.
David Perkins (Parkins?) used to have fittings for a Flower too.
Fleetscale in the UK are starting to get a larger range of 1/72 as well.
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Great little ships are the parkins name,
http://www.djparkins.com/acatalog/Great_Little_Ships.html (http://www.djparkins.com/acatalog/Great_Little_Ships.html)
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That's the colour I remember.
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Al this energy spent on working out correct colours, I remember after putting Intrepid and Fearless in chains at the top of Portsmouth harbour when they were put up for sale, my last memory of looking at the pair was that one had a blue based grey while the other was a green based grey, very distinctive at the time.