Model Boat Mayhem
Mess Deck: General Section => Chit-Chat => Topic started by: Martin (Admin) on March 13, 2014, 03:51:36 pm
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OK, no one else has mentioned it....
Missing Flight MH370 from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing.
... it's like the plot to a 1970's James Bond film or the stupid TV series: LOST!
I find my own insatiable desire for answers very interesting.
Am I a ghoul, petulant or intrusive?!...
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Just curious Martin.
A lot of experts are scratching their heads over this.
Myself, I would have thought that any aircraft transmitting
an ocean would have some sort of EPIRB fitted as well as the
beacon in the black/orange box.
Something fitted to the top of the fuselage or tail fin
that would detach on impact.
Ned
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There are systems that send back , in real time , engine data to Rolls Royce which will give them a time that contact was lost ( don't think those transmitters can be disabled from the cockpit ) , from what's been said it looks like the crew switched off the AIS ( Automatic Identification System ) transponder and all other transmitters. It might now be time for a system to be added that CANNOT be disabled by the crew ( and would prevent the aircraft from taking off if tampered with on the ground ) that sends out a continuous position/altitude/course/speed data back to a central control room then they would know instantly when a plane was in trouble
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This is very strange indeed. If there really is no floating debris, did the plane crash over land into some forested uninhabited area? Do the Chinese know a lot more than they are letting on, in order to justify giving Malaya a hard time? Or has the plane been hijacked to some out of the way airstrip and whipped under camo netting the minute it got there? Weird. Very sorry for the families.
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apparently those transmitters attached to the engines were transmitting for another 4 hours after she had disappeared.......if it weren't so serious and tragic, one would start to believe in alien abduction!!!!
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Triangulation of the engine transmissions
would surely have given the last known position.
If they transmitted for four hours they were obviously
not under the ocean.
Ned
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From what I've read, the aircraft could have travelled another 100 miles from having lost power (engines and electrical). So if the last transmission was the time of failure then the search area could be a 200 mile circle, which is a lot of sea. If it had turned to return to the nearest airfield then it could have made it back over land. Given that the area is fairly densely wooded the possibility remains that the wreck is hidden in the jungle.
If she ditched and didn't break up the aircraft may have sunk intact leaving little or no wreckage to find. It's incredible in this day and age that such a big aeroplane could be completely lost. With search coverage and satallite surveillance it can only be a matter of time before it's found.
What ever the cause and reasons for the mystery the loss of of so many is a real tragedy and one can only hope that at least some of the passengers are still out there in liferafts.
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That story about the engine data has now been retracted by the Wall Street Journal, where it originated. Rolls Royce received two data packets from the onboard ACARS system, one just after take off, and one on the climb to cruising altitude. Nothing exceptional was noted in them.
Nothing is sent continuously in real time, as the cost of the satellite/radio bandwidth would be prohibitive.
Lance
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It has been reported here, that the black boxes, actually Orange, are obsolete 1990's technology and have not been upgraded to modern standards because of the $100,000. cost per aircraft.
If they were modern 'boxes' then the wreckage would have been found by now, using GPS type data like as in mobile phones etc.
Makes you wonder, they go on about crash proof and redundant back up systems but skimp elsewhere.
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So far in the 'normal' press, no one has mentioned alien abduction. :embarrassed:
There was one report of an aircraft seen flying low over a Vietnamese island at the right time and on the direct route to Beijing. If the pilots were incapacitated and the plane was at a low level on autopilot, how far could it have flown? My uneducated guess is that it will never be found after all this time.
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Our current news media reports that the plane transmitted, or "pinged" a satellite for
four hours after it disappeared. They are searching East toward the Indian Ocean.
The plane had enough fuel to fly for up to six hours after its last reported contact.
If this is the case, the search area becomes huge, and the plane could even have been
landed or crash landed somewhere.
It becomes more and more like a James Bond movie or "Lost" as more info keeps being
disseminated and reported.
:o
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After, was it 5 days, the Chinese came across with satelite images of floating wreckage in the area where 370 was last heard from, using Occams theory, that's probably the place it wrecked.
Never mind the elaborate theories having the crew turning off techno devices and flying on weird courses for unexplained reasons, 370 probably nose-dived into the sea due to an event on board around the time the signals were lost.
IMHO
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So far in the 'normal' press, no one has mentioned alien abduction. :embarrassed:
There was one report of an aircraft seen flying low over a Vietnamese island at the right time and on the direct route to Beijing. If the pilots were incapacitated and the plane was at a low level on autopilot, how far could it have flown? My uneducated guess is that it will never be found after all this time.
There was a report, that the last one that went down in the Ocean, took them two years to find, so perhaps, the same length of time will be needed once again.
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Air France Flight 447
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_France_Flight_447
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Let us imagine a system as on lifeboats.
The black flight recorder (orange) is in the water,
a system inflates balloons
flight recorder rise on surface
we find orange boxes
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Let us imagine a system as on lifeboats.
The black flight recorder (orange) is in the water,
a system inflates balloons
flight recorder rise on surface
we find orange boxes
Wouldn't work, the flight recorder could be trapped under wreckage...
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It works on boats, why not on planes?
He could have several systems there fixed to the surface of the plane.
System which starts in the contact of the water
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How many flight recorders would you need though? They are heavy..
So a single recorder is the only realistic option and you would still be relying on a crashed plane coming to rest in a certain position with NO wreckage directly above it as the recorder would only travel upwards...
If this system worked 100% reliably don't you think the aircraft designers and engineers would have incorporated it already?
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Black boxes are fitted inside the tail section are they not, inside signifies it is difficult for it to be release without a complete and catastrophic failure of the fuselage. Having an ejector pod throwing out a beacon is not such a bad idea, gives a closer idea of the locale to look in and can be separate to the box being only a beacon.
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Let us admit: recorders in double!
The weight of a man?
What is the weight of a plane?
The engineers did not make because the man pays, not the recorder
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I'd like to go on record for patenting purposes later on.
All planes should be fitted with a water soluble dye that is automatically releases orange dye for up to 7 days in the even of a water landing. ( Don't life rafts have these? )
All planes should be fitted with a Smoke Flares that discharge once a day at precisely 12:00 in the even of a crash landing.
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All wonderful ideas but destructive forces involved in a serious crash make most of them impractical - ships don't generally impact the water at 200mph. The recorders are sealed in extremely strong boxes and buried in the tail to provide extra protection. Putting it on the surface of the aircraft would expose it to more damage and anything like a flotation pack would likely be stripped off in the crash. As mentioned, cost and weight are significant commercial factors too, and getting the world's aviation authorities to agree on new rules to force adoption of such things is not easy.
A good solution is probably to introduce continuous data transmission back to 'base' but anything transmitting is potentially unreliable and the sheer volume of data would be phenomenal. Just go to one of the aircraft tracking websites, like flightradar24, and see how many aircraft are in the air. It's hundreds just in Europe. You might need an entire constellation of satellites just to deal with aircraft data.
Change will come, but as aviation is so international and needs system and hardware changes around the world, most significant changes will take a while to be agreed and implemented.
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All planes should be fitted with a Smoke Flares that discharge once a day at precisely 12:00 in the even of a crash landing.
When's that? Midday GMT? So they'd have been looking for smoke from MH370 around midnight.
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It may well be worth recalling the disintegration and subsequent crash of the PanAm 747 on to Lockerbie.
That aircraft was intended to blow up over the Atlantic. I can't recall the aircrew having time to make a distress call (?). But a lot of data was eventually recovered.
However. Backtracking the flight and having regard to its speed and altitude etc. it was reported that the "event" began when the aircraft was in the vicinity above Newcastle. If (and it's a big "if", the Malayan 777 didn't turn west then the falling debris from an explosion would carry on falling for quite a distance. All very nasty. BY.
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If (and it's a big "if", the Malayan 777 didn't turn west then the falling debris from an explosion would carry on falling for quite a distance. All very nasty. BY.
It doesn't need to be an explosion (eg. terrorism). A major structural fault (which is what a bomb effectively causes) at 500 knots and 35,000 feet can still result in almost instant disintegration of the aircraft. I would have expected them to have found at least a little floating debris from such an event by now, though.
If it made land then yes it could well all be hidden in jungle, but that's a long way to be off course with no contact. It is a bit puzzling.
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ships (planes) don't generally impact the water at 200mph (though some do ditch). The recorders are sealed in extremely strong boxes and buried in the tail to provide extra protection (thought so). Putting it on the surface of the aircraft would expose it to more damage and anything like a flotation pack would likely be stripped off in the crash (though a sonar buoy - could be ejected from inside whilst being flush with the surface of the fuselage). As mentioned, cost and weight are significant commercial factors too (about a Kilo for a sonar buoy), and getting the world's aviation authorities to agree on new rules to force adoption of such things is not easy (nigh on impossible).
A good solution is probably to introduce continuous data transmission back to 'base' but anything transmitting is potentially unreliable and the sheer volume of data would be phenomenal (unless a mobile type transmission burst every half hour of a couple of seconds - would give a closer indication especially over water).
I copied the above and its not a dig more of a suggested agreement and comment so please take it in the spirit intended - agreed in principle but my take is that a sonar buoy could be cheap - light and have a high degree of survivability in a total loss scenario, dye in the water could be released at the same time as a buoy as a back up (no good on land though), as a separate system to the boxes, recovering them would be easier if they were closer.
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Is there some sort of conspiracy linked to this flight ? -
Flight MH370... 20 passengers were electronic specialists -
http://media.freescale.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=196520&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1907348&highlight=
Also -
"It is apparent that a huge radar “blind spot” that did not previously exist has occurred in the area. This Radar interference caused many aircraft to leave the radar screen in a 1 hour period — only one did not return on radar."
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/03/13/malaysia-air-flight-370-facts-of-the-flight-and-9-possible-scenarios/
And as odd as it may seem the two passengers with "stolen passports" seem to have the same set of legs???,(scroll down the page )
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2578020/Why-cellphones-missing-Malaysian-Airlines-passengers-ringing-Family-members-claim-loved-ones-smartphones-active.html
Why would they doctor a photo like this ? and do it so poorly ?.
There's more -
The wife of a missing passenger during a chat with Piers Morgan stated -
"He said to me, just as he was leaving, he said to me 'I'm going to leave my wedding ring here. It's no use me leaving it in my room on-site. So i'm going to leave my wedding ring and my watch, and should anything happen to me, I want the ring to go to the first son that's married and the watch to the second.
http://piersmorgan.blogs.cnn.com/2014/03/12/wife-of-miss-flight-370-passenger-hes-my-best-friend-and-my-soul-mate-i-just-cant-wait-for-him-to-come-back-i-hope/
Very bizarre statement !
'HawkEye
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Maybe they found
But they do not say it
They are countries where they have the cult of secrecy
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Speculation in the absence of confirmed facts is interesting. However a point to remember is that aircraft that permanently disappear are almost unheard of. eg: Amelia Earhart and Glenn Miller. The Air France flight that went down in the Atlantic did yield wreckage several days later. The longest wreckage finding delay was probably the Avro Lancastrian 'Stardust' that took over 50 years to exit the base of a glacier after hitting a mountain in 1947. Steve Fosset's plane was finally found a year later.
Forget 'flight 19' (alien abduction) as wreckage has since been positively identified.
It will be found, but sadly far too late for grieving relatives.
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while on exercise in Cyprus in 1969 we were told to camouflage the guns etc a raf nimrod flew over and found every piece of equipment we hid even foot tracks so why with BETTER radar etc can we not find a aircraft
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tell ya....alien abduction!!!! {:-{ {:-{ {:-{
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while on exercise in Cyprus in 1969 we were told to camouflage the guns etc a raf nimrod flew over and found every piece of equipment we hid even foot tracks so why with BETTER radar etc can we not find a aircraft
Cos they knew where to search. Won't find many footprints in the sea, assuming it is in the sea.
Regards Ian.
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It's definitely looking fishy.
The SATCOM pings sent out by the plane indicate that 5 hours after the plane switched off its transponder, it was cruising at its normal flight level. And the military radar which tracked the aircraft, tracked it following several 'waypoints' on an air route heading west, before losing it again. This points to deliberate pilot action. Even if it was just following autopilot, somebody would have had to program that course into it, as it's not the course it would have normally followed.
There are two types of radar, primary and secondary. Secondary radar works using the transponder, and gives details about the aircraft as well as its location and height. The transponder was switched off to evade this type of radar. Primary radar works like a ship's radar, in that you don't know who each contact is, but you know they're there. In the local area, the primary radar had a range of 200km, but the military radar had a longer range and so tracked the plane further. If the plane had come close to shore pretty much anywhere else in the world, the likelihood is it would have been picked up, unless it was shadowing another aircraft by practically flying next to it, which is incredibly difficult in an aircraft of that size.
The evidence points to the aircraft being deliberately flown to an alternate location. But the main question is where? There's a lot of places you can get to in 5 hours and 40 minutes at 500 odd mph, but very few places that you could do so without detection. If it has landed, it would certainly have to be covered up, possibly at a governmental level, and this is incredibly unlikely.
The aircraft was carrying 227 passengers instead of 243, which indicates a heavier cargo than normal. Could someone onboard be trying to steal it (if it was anything of value)? It's not unheard of for gold to be transported on commercial aircraft, or more sinisterly, weapons. But that's very unlikely.
All this sounds very tinfoil hat brigade, but it does raise questions.
I personally think that the pilot and/or copilot have tried to divert the plane to an alternate location, for whatever reason, and never made it, possibly by running out of fuel. It would certainly take a knowledgeable person to fly outside of radar detection for 5 hours, especially if they were anywhere near coastlines.
I feel desperately sorry for the passengers' families though, it must be a horrible feeling being, similar to losing people at sea.
Flight 19's wreckage has never been located by the way, several planes were found but they were later proven to be part of a dumping scheme.
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The aircraft was carrying 227 passengers instead of 243, which indicates a heavier cargo than normal.
Not necessarily, scheduled flights frequently travel at less that full passenger capacity. But yes, it does look fishy.
Colin
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I always thought that lifejackets and life rafts had transponders in them that started to work when they got wet, along with lights. Surely if the plane had gone down in the sea, no matter how tragically at least one of these devices would have started to transmit. So I would have thought the plane must be down in the jungle, if the plane had been taken to land it I think you need about two and a half thousand feet runway to get it down.
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Here's a really good thread on Flyertalk, there's a lot of big brains on there bringing up some very interesting and valid points.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/other-asian-australian-south-pacific-airlines/1558464-mh370-772-kul-pek-missing-1730-gmt-7-mar-2014-sar-underway-read-wiki-first.html
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Lifejackets are simple things with a light and whistle. I don't know about the rafts, apparently there were four on board. However, if a big airliner ditches in the sea then the prospects are not good. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zA5FMFVbVZ0
Colin
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http://news.sky.com/story/1226217/plane-sent-signals-hours-after-contact-lost
Data still being send 5 hours after they dropped off transponder , that means a 2,500nm range meaning a 5,000nm circle around the last position that is a LOT of area to cover
They are shifting more into the Indian Ocean near the Andaman Islands ( there was a report of an unidentified seismic event there on the same day after this plane went missing so could be the plane hitting the sea , when the Kursk sunk the detonation of her torpedoes registered as a F4.4 earthquake )
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If it might be on land we should probably send a few dog walkers out to help.
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http://news.sky.com/story/1226217/plane-sent-signals-hours-after-contact-lost
Data still being send 5 hours after they dropped off transponder , that means a 2,500nm range meaning a 5,000nm circle around the last position that is a LOT of area to cover
They are shifting more into the Indian Ocean near the Andaman Islands ( there was a report of an unidentified seismic event there on the same day after this plane went missing so could be the plane hitting the sea , when the Kursk sunk the detonation of her torpedoes registered as a F4.4 earthquake )
I would have thought the Satellite "ping" would have offered more information.
Perhaps, as reported, the Airline did not subscribe to the service, but the computers
would still be sending that data to the system. The ADS-B system implies that a lot
of info regarding the planes location, and status may have been recorded.
http://www.flightradar24.com/11.39,103.07/5
http://www.flightradar24.com/how-it-works
However, the Boeing 777 was introduced in 1995, even flightradar24 states that there
may only be 60% of aircraft using the system. 2007 is the earliest, that I can see, regarding
rules of ADS-B tracking deployment. So it will be interesting to find out what system was pinging the satellite.
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circlip the nimrod did not know where we were thay were told to find us which the crew did we were hidden in the trudoo mountains as I said not with the equipment that is used today I knew an awac crew who could find a needle in an hay stack as the saying goes
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ships (planes) don't generally impact the water at 200mph (though some do ditch). The recorders are sealed in extremely strong boxes and buried in the tail to provide extra protection (thought so). Putting it on the surface of the aircraft would expose it to more damage and anything like a flotation pack would likely be stripped off in the crash (though a sonar bouy - could be ejected from inside whilst being flush with the surface of the fuselage). As mentioned, cost and weight are significant commercial factors too (about a Kilo for a sonar buoy), and getting the world's aviation authorities to agree on new rules to force adoption of such things is not easy (nigh on impossible).
A good solution is probably to introduce continuous data transmission back to 'base' but anything transmitting is potentially unreliable and the sheer volume of data would be phenomenal (unless a mobile type transmission burst every half hour of a couple of seconds - would give a closer indication especially over water).
I copied the above and its not a dig more of a suggested agreement and comment so please take it in the spirit intended - agreed in principle but my take is that a sonar buoy could be cheap - light and have a high degree of survivability in a total loss scenario, dye in the water could be released at the same time as a buoy as a back up (no good on land though), as a separate system to the boxes, recovering them would be easier if they were closer.
The technology exists to enable the "Black" boxes to be found in an "instant" but they have not been upgraded due to the cost.
The mentality is they, planes, are crash resistant so why spend all that money on a one off occurrence. Where have we heard that before.
Someone said, if you lose your mobile phone, you dial a number or such, and you can find it, but they cannot find an aircrafts "black" box??????????
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News item: "Why a better black box wouldn't help"
http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/03/why-malaysia-airlines-370-remains-so-profoundly-mysterious-and-why-a-better-black-box-wouldnt-help/284407/ (http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/03/why-malaysia-airlines-370-remains-so-profoundly-mysterious-and-why-a-better-black-box-wouldnt-help/284407/)
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News item: "Why a better black box wouldn't help"
http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/03/why-malaysia-airlines-370-remains-so-profoundly-mysterious-and-why-a-better-black-box-wouldnt-help/284407/ (http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/03/why-malaysia-airlines-370-remains-so-profoundly-mysterious-and-why-a-better-black-box-wouldnt-help/284407/)
Does not address the situation of a black box that continues to transmit real time data independent and irrespective of aircraft systems being turned of etc, Can have its own tamper proof supply et all. But No it wont happen because it is expensive to implement.
My understanding is, that radar does not track Commercial Aircraft, but they in turn transmit data that is displayed on Air traffic controllers boards, hence they know where the aircraft is. Which is why the public can via the internet track a known flight. The 'receivers' for this data are strategically placed around the world but not all airlines subscribe to the most recent upgrades/sytems, once again cost.
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We found the plane, it is there
(http://i55.servimg.com/u/f55/15/37/42/64/fligth10.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=3421&u=15374264)
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Point I was trying to make Regiment is that they were trying to find you on Cyprus not Crete, Mallorca or Sicily, they were told to look for you there.
Regards Ian.
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tell ya....alien abduction!!!! {:-{ {:-{ {:-{
you might be next....... {-) .....
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maybe they are filming another series of lost....
in all seriousness, as a pilot with a more than basic understanding of radar etc, there is no foreseeable way to land something that big on mainland without being seem visually or without being on someone's primary radar - unless you were covered by weather - at which you would be IFR and need a proper airport to land at with ILS etc.... - not going to happen as it hasnt landed there.
You cant even get a poxy 152 over the channel at 100ft with a boot load of coke from france without being detected...
At the same time, and for some reason, i get the feeling it isn't a crash either. I think there's a lot more going on than most people realise. there's some island in which is basically an air force base with a runway long enough to land the thing, which belongs to india or someone. Nobody thought to fly over as they will be shot down.....
Sat images released 'by mistake'. of course all them folk over that way are monitoring each other and something's kicking around to un-nerve folk.
don't think its as far fetched as aliens, although im not discounting the theory. I was infact at the dentist earlier and it suspiciously reminded me of the time i was abducted by aliens.
passengers phones ringing out instead of going straight to voicemail.....
you are at the mercy of the authorities who run the 'local' satellites to tell the truth - not going to happen.
redirecting american satellites etc takes time, weeks or even months to align orbits with correct daylight for imagery etc.
the truth will come out soon enough.....
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Diego Garcia?
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you might be next....... {-) .....
they'd get a b***** shock if they did...................they'd think we'd digressed back to primeval life, {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
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I reckon they will find the Plane / wreckage by Monday.. 8)
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I would have thought the Satellite "ping" would have offered more information.
Perhaps, as reported, the Airline did not subscribe to the service, but the computers
would still be sending that data to the system. The ADS-B system implies that a lot
of info regarding the planes location, and status may have been recorded.
'Fraid not. The system was only sending a 'keep alive' signal, rather than transmitting a full information stream as it had been disabled. Malaysia won't have known anything about it, because they would only receive the full stream and not the keep alive pings. The only reason we know about these pings at all is because Inmarsat have trawled through their satellites' data logs and manually picked them out.
There's a rough position coordinate and altitude, but these aren't accurate as it's where the satellite 'thinks' the signal came from.
F4TCT:
There is a way to evade primary radar detection - it's called shadowing and basically involves sticking yourself like glue to another aircraft. But it's very hard to do and you could easily be spotted by that aircraft, but there will then only be one contact on the ATC's radar.
There are 4 runways in the region which are uninhabited and could have accommodated a 777, but they have been checked. The AFB you refer to has stated they haven't got it and this has been verified.
The Chinese photographs could definitely be a lot clearer, but as it's a military satellite and they don't want people knowing how good their optics are, it's been deliberately blurred. They must've been pretty confident, but they've definitely tried to backtrack with the mistake story.
Phones continuing to ring are caused by pecularities in international telephony and should be discounted.
Hope this clears a few things up.
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The end of the world is going to arrive (once again).
The passengers ( 11 nationalities) were chosen.
It will be the chosen people.
This plane is the plane of Noê.
He(It) is somewhere, in an underground passage, shielded from the radiations .
Neil did not want to leave because there was no cheese Roquefort in the food reserve {-)
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Current media is reporting the aircraft as "officially" hijacked.
It is interesting to note that there is an expectation for it to be put to ground at
an airport. The hijackers may have taken great care to bring it off the grid and to
a new course, but they may not care how the plane comes back to ground.
To them a crash landing in jungle, or the ocean may be as good an option as
holding any passengers hostage. As no credible claims of action, or demands have
been made, it is a very disturbing type of intimidation that has been introduced.
People can cope with the loss of friends and family, when the loss can be resolved, and
some sort of requiem can be made. However to lose someone and perhaps never know
what happened, will be forever hard on the families.
If this aircraft was intentionally "disappeared", that one question may never be answered, "Why?"
{:-{
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The Malaysian PM in a live interview Australian Eastern Standard time 10 minutes ago acknowledged.......
The MH370 aircrafts computerised reporting systems had been intentionally turned off [by persons unknown] prior to the aircraft leaving Malaysian air space ..........Derek
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sorry circlip my mistake did not read message right regiment
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Now further "Clues" have been given, perhaps the searchers will be looking in the right areas?
Interesting how the Malaysian officials have had a total clamp on media releases, when in recent times of conflict, the world media hasn't had the courtesy to allow the nearest and dearest to be informed before splashing it across the airwaves.
Regards Ian.
No probs Regiment, I should have elucidated.
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Plane has been "hijacked" by the CIA with the complicity of the pilot, who will get Witness Protection in California, and a commission in the Confederate Air Force and be able to spend his days flying vintage aircraft. Plane was shadowed into Diego Garcia by a passing B-52 on a "navigation training" flight and passengers are being held incommunicado in the plane - runway has been mocked up with "Bankok Airport" signs and they have been told the stop is for emergency work on the engines. They cannot disembark because of immigration restrictions. Some passengers have been taken off for "health " reasons and are by now in Gitmo where certain gentlemen wish to speak with them. CIA now working on problem of feeding passengers back into circulation. Any better ideas?
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Sounds about right..
All I can say is somebody knows something but just not saying for what ever reason..If the military knew a plane had deviated from its course and it was no longer registering an ID and did nothing about it !! something is not right..
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The truth - if it ever comes out - will have been clouded by the fact that several countries' militarys are involved. I strongly suspect that all of them know more than they are saying for fear of revealing the scope and range of their own surveillance hardware. Look how fast the Chinese backed off when they realised that maybe they weren't supposed to have the capability of identifying wreckage from that distance.
These are murky waters in all sorts of ways.
DM
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Last one news
Boeing knows where is the plane, engines passed on(transmitted) all the information
Boeing wanted to know if the plane was responsible;
He is not!
Boeing is going to give the information.
In the case or Boeing was responsible it would have had no information there
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if it wasn't so serious it would be funny , my initial comment on this about the need for a system to automatically send location/altitude/course/speed that cannot be disconnected by the crew has been covered on the news and the reason for NOT having it fitted is cost. The airlines are claiming that the satellite costs would be too high , however , most airlines are now offering wifi and telephone services aboard which use satellites so all they have to do is piggy back on a data packet once a minute at no cost to the airline ( you can get fixed cost satellite comms deals for fishing boats that give full broadband internet & telephone for £1,000 per month which would be absolutely small change for an airline )
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Its another alien abduction. They have proved they can do it in the past, look at all the planes 'missing' in the Bermuda Triangle. There is a similar triangle in that area of the world as well.
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Hijacked
Taken 'off grid'
Crashed a long way off track (accidentally or deliberately)
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Friendly fire incident ? I mean why is the CIA involved %) all Chinese specialists - what company was it that may mean a possible taking out 8)
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This is worth a watch for the conspiracy theorists...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNZtz-HVy6c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNZtz-HVy6c)
Dan
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A diffferent slant on things.
Don't forget, that in all of this the powers to be, will be very reluctant to reveal every bit of "pertinent" information that could aid and abet.
For example, why let a hijacker/terrorist know, when and how you knew, they immediately took control of your aircraft. They will then change how to do it next time. Or why reveal what checks you have in place to identify passengers travelling with false documents. After all don't the James Bonds travel with false documents.
Isn't the name of the game to find the aircraft? how it is done is not important.
Also why would other nations, eg China, reveal their unknown military capabilities, except to steer searchers to the right area. The Chinese have Nationals on board.
The lessons learned here will be adopted by the Arms manufacturers, this is a real time event and test of current equipment and technologies.
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Strange though itsnt it. you know for a fact you have nerds and anoraks (no offense) sitting there watching flight radar all day long or all night long. they are the ones who notice subtle changes, such as the video i have shown.
Ive always believe 9/11 was an inside job...
although i believe they landed on the moon.
Torn between the two on this one, although couldn't care less aslong as there has been no lives lost.
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Just the fact that you can gain access to the cockpit area is totally irresponsible in my view it should have a lock down mode
John
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Just the fact that you can gain access to the cockpit area is totally irresponsible in my view it should have a lock down mode
John
Not a lot of use if the guy is inside the cockpit to begin with. Wasn't there an Ethiopian airliner "hijacked" by its co-pilot just last month?
DM
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Correct.
Is not the concern, that "terrorism" will be from home grown, that is from within and therefore harder to detect if at all possible.
Reports here are that the chief pilots home has been raided by the authorities???????????
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Attention of the US Intelligence services (according to CNN anyway) is shifting towards the crew, yes. They've done searches of the houses but nothing has been revealed yet (we already knew the pilot had a simulator setup though).
The cockpit door is always locked these days, and reinforced if I remember correctly, specifically to make it hard to enter the cockpit by force.
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But the co-pilot let a couple of pretty girls in last year. >:-o
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Strange though itsnt it. you know for a fact you have nerds and anoraks (no offense) sitting there watching flight radar all day long or all night long. they are the ones who notice subtle changes, such as the video i have shown.
....
...
...
Actually, there is a play back option on that Flight24 website.
You can select the day, and run the flights you are interested in.
I imagine that that is what the video poster was watching, and why
he saw a change in the data. Could be lag ... but he has his beliefs.
ok2
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New hypothesis
Microscopic cracks of the fuselage would have caused (provoked) a slow depressurization.
It would have caused (provoked) a slow lack of oxygen of the crew
It is comparable to the drunkenness.
It arrived in Greece in 2005 on a Boeing 737 of Hélios Airways
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I don't buy that, because if the crew were in a state of hypoxia they wouldn't have been able to fly for several hours on a different course making heading and altitude alterations. Even if it was flying on autopilot, they'd still have to reprogram the route into the flight computer and that is a complicated task too. Furthermore it doesn't explain the disabling of the transponder and ACARS systems, which must have been deliberate.
In the Helios accident, the aircraft was flying the holding pattern around the airport on autopilot, which was already programmed in before the crew started suffering the hypoxia. So it kept following the same route. In this accident the plane took a whole new route!
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According to todays "Sunday Times" the aircraft had climbed to 45,000ft...and so (almost) de-pressurising the cabin area. Then it descended. It was believed to have crossed the island of Penang (an area I know quite well) at a "low" level (20,000ft) This would have been noticed. But nothing was reported.
Turning SW towards Diego Garcia really has to be a real No-No. Ever been there? I thought not. Far too open for aerial scrutiny. Plus the fact that there's a UK presence embedded there. So rule that one out.
Landing somewhere 1,000 miles east of Perth in Australia? Jeez, how much fuel was this plane carrying?
Burma? Who knows. Points further NW into the "'stans"..possibly. Who knows? Still nasty. BY.
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Diego Garcia is just a huge military base Bryan, Yanks have a big airfield there now and base B52's,B1B's and B2 Steaelth bombers there for missions to Afghanistan , nothing would get within 500 miles of that airfield without being detected by the E2C AWACS aircraft they have there.
News reports now saying the pilot was a fanatical follower of the now jailed leader of the Malaysian opposition ( who is a fairly hard line Islamist ) , if these reports are accurate then I'd put a bet on that this plane is sitting at a Republican Guard airbase in Iran. They weren't at full seating capacity meaning the Pilot could fill the tanks to the max flight take off weight meaning a much longer flight time ( its the pilot who decides how much fuel gets put aboard I think )
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that this plane is sitting at a Republican Guard airbase in Iran. They weren't at full seating capacity meaning the Pilot could fill the tanks to the max flight take off weight meaning a much longer flight time ( its the pilot who decides how much fuel gets put aboard I think )
So someone needs to check the amount put in.
What would be the point of taking the plane and then not saying "we have it" or "we have blown it up"
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I could be a hijack that went badly wrong....
Do modern airliners have handheld / completely independent emergency radio?
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it would seem that the mobile phones of some of the passengers are still ringing out but not gps trackable........if the plane had gone down in a devastating crash either on land or at sea, I'm sure that they would not ring out...........drop your phone in a bucket of water and see........looks like they have been confiscated from passengers????? rather than destroyed by fire or water???
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New hypothesis
Microscopic cracks of the fuselage would have caused (provoked) a slow depressurization.
It would have caused (provoked) a slow lack of oxygen of the crew
It is comparable to the drunkenness.
It arrived in Greece in 2005 on a Boeing 737 of Hélios Airways
The Helios Airways crash was caused by maintenance crews not following SOPs regarding working on the planes pressurisation system. They left the pressurisation system in manual after some tests on the aircraft, instead of putting it back to flight mode (automatic)
Brian
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it would seem that the mobile phones of some of the passengers are still ringing out but not gps trackable........if the plane had gone down in a devastating crash either on land or at sea, I'm sure that they would not ring out
I think this point has already been dealt with. The international connections can still cause phones to ring out even if the handset is inactive.
Colin
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it would seem that the mobile phones of some of the passengers are still ringing out but not gps trackable........if the plane had gone down in a devastating crash either on land or at sea, I'm sure that they would not ring out...........drop your phone in a bucket of water and see........looks like they have been confiscated from passengers????? rather than destroyed by fire or water???
However after 8 days I doubt any modern phone would still have a charge..
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I rather doubt if any comments on here can usefully add to the situation.
Colin
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I rather doubt if any comments on here can usefully add to the situation.
Colin
A bit like all the news reports, But it has caught the worlds attention.
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I rather doubt if any comments on here can usefully add to the situation.
Colin
and to be quite honest, colin.......that comment was pretty useless as well, having no point or purpose what so ever other than to cast derision over other peoples perfectly plausible comments..... >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
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So as the keeper of the "Order of the wooden spoon" does that mean that Colin is now the most recent recipient
%) %) %) %) %) %)
{-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
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Going back to the blurred Satellite image of an item of interest in the sea from the Chinese, I have just been watching the program aboard the International Space Station , this showed pictures of the World Trade Centre just before it was destroyed and on fire, These buildings were visible as was the bridge across the river.. So if these could be filmed with camera's from within the ISS in 2001 I am pretty sure Modern satellites can easily pick up much greater detail now.
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Looks like they might be all boat people coming by plane %% %% %%
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/world/missing-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-likely-to-be-near-australia-says-analyst-20140317-hvjjw.html (http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/world/missing-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-likely-to-be-near-australia-says-analyst-20140317-hvjjw.html)
They really are not letting us know anything other than fuel speculation.
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To sum it all up.. Basically No one has the foggiest where it is.
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Going back to the blurred Satellite image of an item of interest in the sea from the Chinese, I have just been watching the program aboard the International Space Station , this showed pictures of the World Trade Centre just before it was destroyed and on fire, These buildings were visible as was the bridge across the river.. So if these could be filmed with camera's from within the ISS in 2001 I am pretty sure Modern satellites can easily pick up much greater detail now.
They can. Military satellites can see in very close detail, but the Chinese don't want anyone knowing exactly how good their optics are, so the pictures have been deliberately blurred up and made fuzzier.
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TLB......I don't necessarily agree with.... "to sum it all up.. Basically No one has the foggiest where it is"
I think the perpetrators <*< of the crime do....... Derek
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There is an assumption here that top grade imaging satellites were used. The images from the Chinese satellites were captured about 24hrs after the planes last contact. This was before the big search began. It is more likely that these were regular geographic information satellites, used for climate and agricultural data collection. This is speculation on my part, but no less relevant than some of the other speculation on here.
If they were SPOT satellites, that are usually used for regular imaging, they work on 2.5m - 20m resolution. Lower resolution uses much less memory and the images can be analysed much more rapidly, electronically. Using satellite imagery does not give instant analysis, sadly, there is a lot of computer data manipulation to make sense of the images (which are to all intents and purposes a data stream).
Modern military satellites can get great images, as they are often put into position to capture a specific image. They are not doing a gradual sweep of vast areas.
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I think the perpetrators <*< of the crime do....... Derek
That's assuming there has been a crime.
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That's assuming there has been a crime.
Just about everything said here on the forum has been either assumptions or conjecture. At this stage it seems as if that's all anyone anywhere has been able to do, as there doesn't appear to be any evidence of the aircraft crashing, or having been hijacked. For all intents and purposes it has just disappeared. It must be absolute hell on the families of the passengers and crew, not knowing what has happened.
Peter.
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To sum it all up.. Basically No one has the foggiest where it is.
i was listening to the radio and the reports stated they were searching the pilots house.....
now i know i am no aviation expert but i dont think the pilot has parked it up on his driveway has he ? :}
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Landing somewhere 1,000 miles east of Perth in Australia? Jeez, how much fuel was this plane carrying?
Possibly a heck of a lot. Remember that the 777 that crashed at Heathrow in 2008? That was on a Beijing - London run. That is, in itself, a long way, but they do tend to carry a substantial reserve to cater for landing delays and diversions. Figuring out how much fuel actually was on board is guesswork as well. While the pilot decides how much is to be carried, and there will be filling records, no-one knows how accurate those records might be. He might have a mate on the filling crew who could pour in an extra ton or so "off the books". Fuel gauges in planes seem to run on guesswork anyway - look back at those cases where the pilot thought he was taking off with plenty but only had enough to get half way.
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HAs anyone checked Martin's loft? or come to that Neil's workshop :)
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HAs anyone checked Martin's loft? or come to that Neil's workshop :)
{-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-) {-)
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I think a 777 would probably stand out in Neil's workshop.........on the other hand, having seen some photos of said workshop, maybe not %)
Peter.
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I think a 777 would probably stand out in Neil's workshop.........on the other hand, having seen some photos of said workshop, maybe not %)
Peter.
O0 O0 O0 O0 Lost forever
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Diego Garcia is just a huge military base Bryan, Yanks have a big airfield there now and base B52's,B1B's and B2 Steaelth bombers there for missions to Afghanistan , nothing would get within 500 miles of that airfield without being detected by the E2C AWACS aircraft they have there.
News reports now saying the pilot was a fanatical follower of the now jailed leader of the Malaysian opposition ( who is a fairly hard line Islamist ) , if these reports are accurate then I'd put a bet on that this plane is sitting at a Republican Guard airbase in Iran. They weren't at full seating capacity meaning the Pilot could fill the tanks to the max flight take off weight meaning a much longer flight time ( its the pilot who decides how much fuel gets put aboard I think )
Davy, having been there a few times and "had the tour" I can vouch for the runway length as it was also an emergency strip for the Space Shuttle. My first visit was in 1972 when the B52s were doing circuits to Vietnam...it's much improved now. But it's more than an air base. The Maritime Sealift Command use the vast lagoon to hold a rather large fleet of fully loaded QR ships "just in case". And very impressive they are. Bryan.
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Possibly a heck of a lot. Remember that the 777 that crashed at Heathrow in 2008? That was on a Beijing - London run. That is, in itself, a long way, but they do tend to carry a substantial reserve to cater for landing delays and diversions. Figuring out how much fuel actually was on board is guesswork as well. While the pilot decides how much is to be carried, and there will be filling records, no-one knows how accurate those records might be. He might have a mate on the filling crew who could pour in an extra ton or so "off the books". Fuel gauges in planes seem to run on guesswork anyway - look back at those cases where the pilot thought he was taking off with plenty but only had enough to get half way.
Malcolm.....the Great Circle route from Beijing to London is very much shorter than the more or less "straight" route (ie following a line of latitude). This shorter distance is well within range of a 777. The presently "assumed" route taken by the missing aircraft doesn't really allow for Great Circle routing to be employed....so geographically, at least, the range is shortened. Bryan Y.
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Malcolm.....the Great Circle route from Beijing to London is very much shorter than the more or less "straight" route (ie following a line of latitude). This shorter distance is well within range of a 777. The presently "assumed" route taken by the missing aircraft doesn't really allow for Great Circle routing to be employed....so geographically, at least, the range is shortened. Bryan Y.
Quite true, thats why I took the precaution of using a globe and a piece of string. If he had gassed it to the max, and traveled straight he could have reached Turkey, Egypt, Madagascar, and carrying the arc on, about halfway across Australia, given a reckoning from somewhere about the middle of the Bay of Bengal. Last plotted heading NW? I don't know how good the radar coverage is around there, but if he was knowledgeable enough, he would lose considerable range losing some altitude, but would gain the advantage of just vanishing, having taken a different heading.
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Ah, Malcolm....you'e fallen into a bit of a trap here!
A Great Circle course always starts off aiming towards the pole of the hemisphere you are flying (or sailing) in.
Once you cross the equator the great circle first heads towards the opposite pole and then diverges from it.
So, in fact he'd be heading away from Australia (to the west) if such a course was being followed. His actual trajectory would be in the shape of a shallow "S". Sorry my friend, but if "your" course was followed they should be looking somewhere about 800 miles west of Aussie. A lot of water in that vicinity!.
Back to the drawing board, I think. Bryan.
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Ah, Malcolm....you'e fallen into a bit of a trap here!
A Great Circle course always starts off aiming towards the pole of the hemisphere you are flying (or sailing) in.
Er, I don't think so. A great circle route is the shortest distance between two points on the Earth's surface (or anything spherical-ish) without going sub-surface. Nothing to do with the poles.
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Sorry "Plague"....in navigational terms great circles relate to the N.Pole and S.Pole.
In terms of Trigonometry and Geometry I suppose you could transpose the "poles" on to 0* and 180* of longitude...(that is, turning the earth (mathematically) through 90*. But it just doesn't work that way.
Going from the n.pole to the s.pole (direct) is automatically on a great circle route.
Still with me?
N to S follow lines of longitude. Try it with a bit of string on a globe. Any deviation will add distance. QED.
E to W (or vice verca) is a different thing altogether. BY.
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My Geography teacher also got it wrong then, Great circles were the shortest distance between two points when he taught. O0 :o
Great circles crossed both lines of latitude and longitude.
Regards Ian.
PS. Wiki screwed up as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_circle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_circle)
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http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/missing-malaysia-airlines-plane-live-3254541 (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/missing-malaysia-airlines-plane-live-3254541)
Someones found it apparently...
looks like a photoshop job to me, and yet its still all intact after landing in the jungle...
blks...
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Brian, you've got your wires crossed a bit mate. A great circle between two points is a circle, the plane of which passes through the two points and the centre of the sphere. There are an infinite number of them. The meridians and the equator are also great circles. The shortest distance on the earths surface between two points is a great circle.
A rhumb line between two points on the earths surface is a line on the earths surface that crosses the meridians at a constant angle. If continued along you will eventually reach a pole. A rhumb line appears as a curve on a globe and as a straight line on a Mercator chart. A great circle appears as a curve on a Mercator chart
Jerry.
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Wooww there.
Think you guys are talking at cross purposes here.
Your both right.
But Bryan is talking at plotting great circles onto flat charts, hope that's right Bryan.
Whilst the rest of you are talking about using a globe to show this.
Now if you guy's plot the strings route onto a flat chart, you will get the distorted path as per Bryans explanation
cheers
vnkiwi
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further to my post and having researched a little further, it could be the aircraft shown is actually flying and landing at a strip a few miles away..
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Wooww there.
Think you guys are talking at cross purposes here.
Your both right.
But Bryan is talking at plotting great circles onto flat charts, hope that's right Bryan.
Whilst the rest of you are talking about using a globe to show this.
Now if you guy's plot the strings route onto a flat chart, you will get the distorted path as per Bryans explanation
cheers
vnkiwi
A flat chart is always tricky as it can't properly represent reality - the curved earth. The plotted route would be distorted but would not "always start off aiming towards the pole".
eg. If you wanted to take a great circle route from London to Penzance you would most certainly not set out toward Scotland and then turn left. You'd set out in a direction that was roughly west. And the plotted route would reflect that.
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It occurs to me that there may be a confusion regarding "towards".
A great circle route when plotted on a chart will curve away from a simple straight line route and the direction of the curve will be toward the pole of the hemisphere you are working in.
E.g. if you plot a route from a to b where both points are at the same latitude then the simple route will be a straight line going east-west, but the gc route will 'bulge' towards the pole.
The further apart the points are the greater the bulge and ultimately if they are on opposite sides of the globe (180 degree of latitude apart) the gc route will pass through the pole. That last example is the only time you would actually aim for the pole, because you are going to pass over it.
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Another assumption being made in the navigation of the plane arguement.
The best possible route planned may not be the most efficient route, if one is evading detection.
I think this story may go down in history as another Amelia Earhart type event.
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and that would be a shock if they found her plane. :D , one report is the tia's confirmed a plane was heading north west trying to stay under radar - time will tell.
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BBC: Missing Malaysia plane: 10 theories - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26609687
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A theory is missing
The plane passed above Himalaya.
King Kong is on holidays in Himalaya
King Kong caught the plane because in the plane there was an attractive blonde
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Too much Coffee for you today GAZOU %%
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No, no, I am to train to drink of the wisky for my holidays in UK.
In a month I visit some famous men at your country !!
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One possiblity is that the elevator servo has jammed in the +0/-0 neutral position. With this stuck the plane cannot descend and may still be up there.
Has anyone counted aircraft arriving at airports and compared the data with flights acually confirmed on the arrivals board? A difference of one could be a clue.
My car SatNav regularly gets confused, like halfway between motorway junctions 20 miles apart "Turn around where possible". Good job I can overide it.
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I'm just a bit surprised that so many people seem to find the subject a matter of entertainment given that a couple of hundred people have almost certainly met with a terrifying death.... It may be interesting to speculate about what happened, if a bit pointless in the circumstances, but joking about it I think is in rather poor taste.
Colin
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King Kong caught the plane because in the plane there was an attractive blonde
Could only have come from a Frenchman! Oo la la, Jean-Pierre! :o
but joking about it I think is in rather poor taste.
Could only have come from an Englishman........... Colin - I'm sure no offence was intended.
DM
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If we do not take things in the fun so much to commit suicide at once
Every day there is Thousands of deaths
It is proved that the most dangerous place is a bed. Millions of people died in a bed
Or by falling off the bed
And nevertheless we joke about beds
Jean-Pierre
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Black humour like this is very common, albeit 'non-PC' these days. Of course it's offensive to some people, but there isn't much humour, or indeed anything written or said, that doesn't manage to upset somebody.
As Gazou suggests, I think it's a mechanism to let us deal with the ever present threat of our own demise, particularly among the non-religious who have no 'safety net'.
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I think it's a mechanism to let us deal with the ever present threat of our own demise, particularly among the non-religious who have no 'safety net'.
Not altogether sure about that but yes, I do accept the point about 'black humour' after all just about everyone jokes about the Titanic these days, but seeing all those relatives stuck in the hotel waiting for news does make me a bit uneasy. But then I always was a sensitive soul. :-)
Colin
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I'm going to go along with Colin.
This whole thing is degenerating into a very poor taste farce. I'm now withdrawing from it.
However, I'm perfectly willing to discuss some of the misconceptions about Great Circle navigation on another thread. Harry just about got it right though. BY.
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As the plethora of official theories gets more and more far fetched an exasperation with this trend becomes almost inevitable. Too much reliance on Sat Nav blips that may be missleading. It may be possible to sneak into a busy airport in the wake of an expected flight.
"...when you have eliminated all which is impossible, then whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."
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One thing that the search does highlight is that seagoing trade and airline routes are concentrated into relatively small areas of ocean. There are vast expanses where people rarely go and any wreckage in these areas could take a very long time indeed to be found.
Colin
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There's some real mad stuff being banded about.
I still think that for whatever reason the pilot/copilot have taken the plane towards a different destination on purpose, but never made it due to catastrophic failure, interception (unlikely) or running out of fuel.
I am skeptical that they reached land.
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Fixing me computer! i fink XP may have had it's day....
Topic tidied up..... no more bad taste humour gentlemen. :police:
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It has been done to death about humour and tragic events. It is a form of release that you are not a victim and is perfectly normal and is to be encouraged rather than the opposite.
After all, we need to be able cope with tragic events, some do so in different ways, if you don't or can't, then you are a candidate for mental illness which in Australian affects 1 in 3.
We Australians, are said to a have weird sense of humour, but I shudder to think of the mental health statistics if we develop a stiff upper lip, eh what, old boy mentality.
It is similar to people blowing their stacks in anger rather than suffering ulcers etc by pent up emotions.
It is for this reason that political correctness will not survive or work as it seeks to put everyone in the same mould, we are all unique individuals.
Don't take my word for it Google it up and talk to a professional.
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I have to agree RAAArty, it's called being 'Professionally Offended', sadly all too common these days. 'I am not affected in any way, but if I was, I might be upset, so I will write lots of angry letters telling you how upset I might possibly have been if I was in that position'. However, I digress so I'll draw a line under it. Literally.
It's a very conclusive development that's been announced today (if it is true), that the autopilot was set to take the plane off course, BEFORE the communications were lost. Surely if something was amiss in the cockpit, the crew wouldn't continue acting as normal. It's very suspicious, and again points to a deliberate diversion by the crew. Even if the copilot wasn't 'in on it', surely he'd have seen the pilot reprogramming the computer? But then were they acting of their own accord or did they have someone holding a gun to their heads?
And furthermore why? Was the motive people, property, or plane? I think it'll be a long time before we know the answer to those questions. We'll find out where it came down and why first, then we'll have to work out how it got there.
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The latest in Oz is, that the airline has now acknowledged that they are withholding information.
This is perfectly reasonable, after all it serves no purpose in letting the, say Hijackers, know that you know, where they are and give them, the hijackers, the opportunity of foiling, say a rescue attempt. Or alternatively that they have been successful in their endeavours, such as hijacking the plane.
Look at rescue attempts that go wrong and why, maybe because the media plastered all the information far and wide.
The old WWII "loose lips, sink ships" comes to mind.
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I totally agree with Raaarty on this one, and sadly it is something that we all have to deal with one way or another...........you might call me callous for having a joke for instance at my mums expense for dying from the disgusting disease AHLZIEMERS......BUT JUST AS I NOW LAUGH AT HER CONDITION IN LATTER STAGES, so would she have done so the same,had she been here to laugh herself........as Raarty has said it's a release from real life......we get over it, and shouldn't be condemned for doing it IN OUR OWN WAY!
IT'S A 'blinking!' SAD WORLD IF PEOPLE NOW START TO TELL US HOW TO, AND HOW not to GRIEVE IN PUBLIC ( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-( >>:-(
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IT'S A 'blinking!' SAD WORLD IF PEOPLE NOW START TO TELL US HOW TO, AND HOW not to GRIEVE IN PUBLIC
There has always been those who do this Neil.
Everyones different, it's part of life.
In my opinion, grief is a personal thing, and individuals must handle it best they can.
cheers
vnkiwi
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There has always been those who do this Neil.
Everyones different, it's part of life.
In my opinion, grief is a personal thing, and individuals must handle it best they can.
cheers
vnkiwi
:-))
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;)
We can laugh at everything but not with whoever,
but especially not with those who have no humor in .......
We can cry for everything,
for the small catwhich is hungry,
and to ignore the man who dies from cold
Each sees the life as he wants ,
and each is respectable
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:police: OK, enough said, back on topic now please. :police:
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'Debris' spotted off of Australia.
Looks rather on the big side, but it could be.
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Tonight's news, Brisbane, and interviews with tech savvy salvagers etc, is speculating that it could be part of a wing, one object estimated at 24 metres length, as they would be buoyant as all fuel was used up.
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/missing-malaysia-airlines-plane-debris-found-in-search-for-mh370-says-australian-prime-minister-tony-abbott-20140320-354xz.html (http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/missing-malaysia-airlines-plane-debris-found-in-search-for-mh370-says-australian-prime-minister-tony-abbott-20140320-354xz.html)
Two RAAF and One RNZAF maritime aircraft, PC Orion, are en-route to locate possible wreckage as is a RAN supply vessel equipped to salvage anything found.
If confirmed, then they will start plotting backwards, using tides, wind, currents, etc to try and Pinpoint the crash site for underwater exploration for the wreckage.
Still a long way to go.
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If it ditched, rather than crashed hard, the wings might well remain in large chunks. Remember the tail fin of the Air France one was floating more or less intact and that was flying quite slowly when it hit the water. The relatively fragile fuselage would probably still disintegrate though (I'm assuming the sea down there isn't exactly a millpond, which means an elegant splashdown is somewhat unlikely even if attempted).
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IMHO...that plane is down somewhere in the wilds of one of the 'Stans, hidden away in a building. The passengers...well, I hate to think, but my guess is that they were all sacrificed in the name of religion of some sort.
The plane will be loaded with explosives and deliberately crashed into a building of high significance at a carefully chosen time..maybe even The Houses of Parliament, after all we are not immune to acts of terrorism.
IMHO, of course.
Rich
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If we do not take things in the fun so much to commit suicide at once
Every day there is Thousands of deaths
It is proved that the most dangerous place is a bed. Millions of people died in a bed
Or by falling off the bed
And nevertheless we joke about beds
Jean-Pierre
Yes, makes me want to sleep on the settee!!!
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'Credible lead' in search for plane"
Is this Yes we have found definite wreckage but want to double check ? first..
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No. This is, "there is/was something there 4 days ago, and we won't know what it is till we have checked, and so it would be wrong to jump to conclusions". It may also no longer be near the surface.
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What about this?????????
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/entertainment/books/first-book-on-mh370-mystery-blames-us-war-games-20140517-38gmf.html (http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/entertainment/books/first-book-on-mh370-mystery-blames-us-war-games-20140517-38gmf.html)
Moderators might have to now move this thread to urban myths and conspiracies etc
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>>:-(...the directors of this video should go to specsavers...... O0.........Derek
The Boeing aircraft in the video emblazoned with the Malaysia name & logo is a four engined Boeing 747-200
The Boeing aircraft of flight MH370 was a much smaller two engined Boeing 777-200
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Derek, the 747 in your photo is either a -300 (note the extended upper deck) or a -400. If it's a -400 there would be winglets at the tips of the wings, but the wingtips are not visible in the photo. Either way, it is certainly nothing like the missing 777-200 but, to some people, a plane is a plane, is a plane, etc etc. >>:-(
Peter.
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Well I said at the start to a work mate 'give it a couple of months and the first conspiracy theories will emerge with the finger pointed at the US'. Any mystery and it seems the White House is the default blame position no matter how preposterous and total lack of evidence.
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I think that perhaps the makers of the video used stock footage which they could get easily (i.e. a Malaysian Airlines 747) in the absence of that of a real 777, in much the same way as the flight crew shown in the video probably weren't members of the actual crew which was lost. One must allow for artists' license in such circumstances because, as you say, to many folk a plane is a plane is a plane.
I don't think that the truth will ever be found but that, if it is, it will be so undramatic that it will be almost incredible - certainly not in the same league as the conspiracy theorists would have it.
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The following is a copy of the news report on ABC's Four Corners program shown on Australian TV last night,
It was observed on Malaysia's military radar. Even though contacted by Malaysia's civil aviation authority about a missing airliner, the military opted not to send one of its aircraft to investigate.
"If you're not going to shoot it down, what's the point of sending it up," Malaysian defence minister Datuk Hishamuddin Hussein told the ABC.Read more at http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/2014/05/19/21/18/fire-unlikely-in-plane-disappearance#VkzsAFfxL2lQYZiT.99 (http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/2014/05/19/21/18/fire-unlikely-in-plane-disappearance#VkzsAFfxL2lQYZiT.99)
It seems that Malaysia are at fault for not giving the details concerning the disappearance of the aircraft soon enough.
Something that concerns me and, I'm sure, most Australians, is the cost to Australia of the search for the missing aircraft. In the recent Federal Budget, an amount of A$89.9 million has been set aside for the search, which is expected to last "a long time". This in a Budget which saw extensive cuts to health and education funding, and severe reductions to essential welfare. I don't for one moment believe that the search should be called off, but why should Australia bear the brunt of the cost?
Peter.
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DM....I understand journalistic license....but feel it should be less prevalent if an acceptable or truer representation of the matter in question were available
An image of a Boeing 777 [photoshop could have added the name Malaysia & Icon] would have been more credible than an image of a Boeing 747 <*<
I'll just stick to my kitchen chores :-X & making BBQ's for the grandchildren........Derek
PS....Peter ...have only flown in a 747-200 twice....& we were passenger's 201 to 204 inclusive & in baggage class just under the tail........ {-)
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Hi Peter,
I'd be very sceptical re the Budget amount set aside for the cost of the search.
Costs of the military exercise, are already part of the military budget, and the only extra cost, over and above normal operating costs, (as they are standard no matter if sitting on the ground or flying for personnel and equipment), would be the extra fuel to maintain the increased flying hours required, and is only a small part of the yearly budget.
This is simply a political/accounting ploy to justify whatever the politicians are trying to achieve.
The costs of the aircraft, personnel, and ground staff, are part of your existing military budget, and occur on a yearly cycle. So, I would be asking what is this $89.9 million in the budget really being used for.
Be thankful that your military resources are being used in a positive way.
cheers :-))
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Hi Peter,
I'd be very sceptical re the Budget amount set aside for the cost of the search.
Costs of the military exercise, are already part of the military budget, and the only extra cost, over and above normal operating costs, (as they are standard no matter if sitting on the ground or flying for personnel and equipment), would be the extra fuel to maintain the increased flying hours required, and is only a small part of the yearly budget.
This is simply a political/accounting ploy to justify whatever the politicians are trying to achieve.
The costs of the aircraft, personnel, and ground staff, are part of your existing military budget, and occur on a yearly cycle. So, I would be asking what is this $89.9 million in the budget really being used for.
Be thankful that your military resources are being used in a positive way.
cheers :-))
In true conspirator style, we are not sure they are %) %) %)
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DM....I understand journalistic license....but feel it should be less prevalent if an acceptable or truer representation of the matter in question were available
An image of a Boeing 777 [photoshop could have added the name Malaysia & Icon] would have been more credible than an image of a Boeing 747 <*<
I'll just stick to my kitchen chores :-X & making BBQ's for the grandchildren........Derek
PS....Peter ...have only flown in a 747-200 twice....& we were passenger's 201 to 204 inclusive & in baggage class just under the tail........ {-)
Him looka all a same to me boss O0 O0 O0 {-) {-) {-) me no fly in im plury plane %) %) %)
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'Planes don't just disappear': Former Malaysian Prime Minister accuses CIA of covering up what really happened to flight MH370
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2632447/CIA-knows-missing-Flight-MH370-says-former-Malaysian-PM-Dr-Mahathir.html#ixzz32Gj49Oa5
http://chedet.cc/
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/465557/Malaysian-plane-20-on-board-worked-for-ELECTRONIC-WARFARE-and-radar-defence-company
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Vnkiwi, I agree with what you say about the amount quoted for the search, but it was given to us by a politician - and we all know how to tell when a politician is lying, don't we? Their lips are moving :o {-)
Actually there were other assets brought in for the search, including an underwater ROV to scan the sea bed. Who knows how much that really cost, and who paid for it?
Peter.
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Well its been Confirmed, The Wing part found on the beach is from Flight MH370 so pretty well proof that what ever happened it happened at sea, I just hope they eventually do find the black box to see what actually happened, but if plane parts are being washed around in a huge sea current I would think they will never find the box unless still attached to the main part of the plane, if they ever find that.
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They also reported that some suitcases were washed up but the 'Natives' has burnt them to keep warm.
ken
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They also reported that some suitcases were washed up but the 'Natives' has burnt them to keep warm.
ken
in fairness their job is to keep the beach clean and to burn all rubbish, not to keep warm.
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Finding the wing flap so far away from the designated search area doesn't help either...
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Brisbane papers carried a story that months earlier, several items including suitcases, a seat and debris had been found and destroyed on the beach, by burning.
No mention was made or any thought given to the previous items found as no one envisaged/expected MH370 wreckage ending up on the beach.
Seeing as the "finder" could not burn the "wing" probably asked the question what will I do with it and the rest is.................
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A person who knows the file speaks but she wants to remain anonymous
She says the MH370 fell close to Australia.
The proof shells have a pocket on the stomach