Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Navy - Military - Battleships: => Topic started by: ballastanksian on March 27, 2014, 11:24:29 pm
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How do chaps.
Despite considering HMS Collussus (1880's) as a major project, HMS Warrior has taken my heart to play with! I have top and water line hull drawings available from Amazon in Warship VolIII (IIRC) and wondered if anyone has frame plans for her or one of her sisters? I did think HMS Kent would suffice, but she is quite a lot smaller though the hull shape might be very similar.
I intend to build her in 1:96th as that plank on frame model I feel I ought to try after I have built HMS Rupert and the WW1 Destroyer.
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Hi there
I assume you mean the HMS Warrior that is now on display at the Portsmouth dockyards?
If so, I have just taken delivery of a Billings boats kit of the Warrior in 1/100 scale. It doesn't come with frame drawings as such as they are already laser-cut but it does come with a nice side and plan view drawing.
If you ever find yourself in West Sussex happy to show the kit to you or I could post photos.
Craig.
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Funnily enough I used to live in West Sussex until last November! Sadly I am after the WW1 Protected cruiser. I should have been more specific in my title to save helpful souls like you wasting time.
I apreciate your offer and thankyou for replying, I hope the build gives you much enjoyment as I beleive Billings make a good kit.
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I did wonder if there was more than one HMS Warrior. :-)
The kit does look pretty good but the box is worryingly empty for the cost of it, a few laser cut sheets, a small box of fittings and a whole lot of planks, not much more to be honest.
Good luck finding the drawings you need. :-)
Craig.
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More ww1 stuff has my attention, look toward to seeing the build!
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Thanks Craig. Warships Vol III has a lovely set of drawings covering the plan and profile so at least I can fabricate the decks and turrets etc with confidence.
I noticed that she has 26 3pounders which would fire a veritable barrage of small shells at anyone daft enough to try and attack it in a smal craft though doing this in a destroyer or larger would be more dangerous to the Warrior. I have considered using the plans of HMS Kent which though smaller might give me the basis of the larger hull by massaging the frames.
As long as you have everything promised in the kit and then the box should at least provide a home for the hull and large parts during construction assuming the box is actually large enough for the former item.
Taa Tom. I am building up a list of ships to model and one of these is the Warrior of 1905. I have HMS Ready under way who was an M class destroyer built by Thornycroft. She is pictured in Janes 1919 as having a ram bow and, while assuming that she subsequently had this replaced with a standard bow, will continue to build her as pictured.
I prefer 1:96th for my ships of this era though I will build the Inde to 1:192 so as it fits in my shed and car.
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How do chaps.
Despite considering HMS Collussus (1880's) as a major project, HMS Warrior has taken my heart to play with! I have top and water line hull drawings available from Amazon in Warship VolIII (IIRC) and wondered if anyone has frame plans for her or one of her sisters? I did think HMS Kent would suffice, but she is quite a lot smaller though the hull shape might be very similar.
I intend to build her in 1:96th as that plank on frame model I feel I ought to try after I have built HMS Rupert and the WW1 Destroyer.
I have an immaculate hard back copy of William Mowell's 'Building a Model Warship - HMS Warrior 1860' (Chatham Publishing) for sale at £5 plus postage. It contains scores of construction photos and I found it invaluable when building my square rigger.
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Sadly its the wrong one but for others reading this topic, it could well be the book that helps start a project especially for Craig!
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PM sent about the book Popeye, :-)
Craig.
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Hi Ian
Took me ages to find a picture of the general arrangements of Warrior/Cochrane, eventually found on in Norman Friedmann's book British Cruisers of the Victorian Era. Other than that the only way I could see that you could get plans would from the National Maritime Museum Plans Section, rather expensive but I can see why you could adapt HMS Kent profile and water lines. Just remember to make it more streamlined than Kent! :-))
(http://i62.tinypic.com/4lolfs.jpg)
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Thanks Nick! I will have to look at something like the Kent. I might save up some pennies and drop the Maritime museum a line. Much as she is a sweetie, I want to be good and complete my first projects so as not to be swamped in hulls and the like!
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I have been reading D K Brown's books on warship development which confirm that the hull design of successive classes was usually an extrapolation of previous designs for given classes of ships.
Colin
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Thankyou for that Colin. it does really make sense as to go too far from a proven shape technology risks making an expensive flop. What will be a challenge will be getting all the turrets to traverse given they are on different levels. I considered driving A turret with a searate servo and having the others on a linked system to create a feeling of coming to action stations.
I have some time to plan this out so I will not rush things. There is a set of plans on the My Hobby shop site IIRC so I will obtain these and get modifying!
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Just checked my copy of Janes 1914 and you can see that the two types do have rather different keel profiles - not sure how accurate the drawings are though the Warrior one doesn't seem to tie up with your image.
Colin
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I would disregard Janes as a source for anything below the waterline, Colin.
Here's HMS Dreadnought from the 1919 edition: hopelessly wrong.
(http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~pbtyc/Janes_1919/B_Ships/Images/Dreadnought_BV.jpg)
Andy
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Yes, adapting the lines of Kent should give the best result. It may be worth tracking down photos of models, for example the NMM has one of Duke of Edinburgh here: http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/67315.html
Minotaur here: http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/67329.html
And Warrior herself: http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/67322.html
Leviathan: http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/67286.htmlhttp://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/67286.html
Chatham have a model of Leviathan:
Colin
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Yes, sadly I agree about janes and asume there is an element of time saving versus known information at the time of compiling the information. Though there are some evil mistakes such as showing the Invincible diagrams for the Indefatigable class battle cruisers. I take on board that the former was a direct inspiration for the latter, but the turret and superstructure layout is quite different.
Still, the titbits of information are inspiring, and seeing battleships in one section appear again in another as converted for a lowlier task such as HMS London who was converted into a Mine layer and painted in razzledazzle also interest me!
Amphitrite was also converted to such a role. (Cruiser)
Thankyou for all this assistance. I will diligently continue looking for information and build up a dossier (assuming someone does not produce a kit!)
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I have seen in my book "Warrior to Dreadnoughts" a ref to "K. McBride, "The Dukes and the Warriors", Warship International 4/90 (Toledo 1990).
If you can get a look at a copy of this book or anyone on this site has a copy, perhaps there is more relavent info for you there.
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i dont know if anyone caught this but it might help, super dreadnoughts, on yesterday channell http://yesterday.uktv.co.uk/shows/deep-wreck-mysteries/watch-online/ regards pad
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I have seen in my book "Warrior to Dreadnoughts" a ref to "K. McBride, "The Dukes and the Warriors", Warship International 4/90 (Toledo 1990).
If you can get a look at a copy of this book or anyone on this site has a copy, perhaps there is more relavent info for you there.
I missed that when I read through the short section on Armoured Cruisers. I will get on to it. Thanks.
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A one-sheet 1/192 scale version of the HMS Cochrane plans published in Warship Volume III can be purchased from Taubman Plans in the US:
http://www.taubmansonline.com/SIRCOCHRAN.htm (http://www.taubmansonline.com/SIRCOCHRAN.htm)
They include plan and profile only though; no hull lines alas.
These plans were originally published by A&A Plans in the 1970s. Later they were acquired by Sambrook Marine (and distributed by WEM in the UK), and more recently were acquired by Taubman Plans.
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Thankyou Mr Linux. I saw the drawings on line as you say from WarshipsIII, so if Taubman does them without the crease then I can make these work.
Regards Ian:OD
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Actually plans from the National Maritime Museum were not as expensive as I thought having recently purchased a set for Iron Duke. The full set includes everything would have cost in the region of £600 but I only really needed the weather decks (main deck and forecastle deck and hull lines). The total was £88 including shipping I seem to recall. Whilst this seems a lot given it takes us years to build it is not that much spread over time. Notionally just the lines would be 1/3 this cost so it may be worth dropping them an e-mail. I found they were very helpful and quick in responding.
A word of warning though, they don't scale them so they come at the original builders scale which is 1/48. ID plans are about 16 feet long including edges and frames!
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That is what has worried me as I do not have space to hang this size of plan! No worries, you have given us ideas thanks muchly.
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I know I am interested in a copy of the Warrior class plans, what if others similarly minded clubbed together to get a set of plans.
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Working on the copy and send on principle so as not to contravene copyright laws? If five people were interested then I would be interested.
We could then each choose to build one of the class to save building five Natals or Cochranes!
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Sounds good by me.
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Any more for any more chaps?
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I have National Maritime Museum plans for HMS Black Prince which was a half- sister to the Warriors. Essentially identical except she carried 10 x 6" guns in casemates - later plated over with 6 guns moved to the upper deck with shields. The only other difference of note is that the first three funnels are slightly larger in diameter to the Warriors but the 4th is the same size - took me several years to spot but once you see it, it is obvious! As mentioned earlier, the plans are very big! If you go on the NMM site, you will also see they do rigging plans. My recollection is that these show a simplified 1/192 scale profile view of the ships but I can't remember the detail. I'm hoping to go to the NMM I the next couple of months so I can report back. I've wanted a large scale model of the Black Prince for years so may need plenty of advice as and when I start!
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Hi Ian.
Sorry not to get back to you sooner. Do please report back on the plans I would be interested in their quality.
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I've been looking into HMS Minotaur, a slightly more "recent" armored cruiser class. I know the NMM has the hull lines for that class, drawing NPB7113 ADR812.
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Oh yes, didn't she have twin turrets fore and aft and single turretted weapons on the broadside?
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Twin 9.2" mounts fore and aft, and five single 7.5" single mounts on each broadside- I have to convince myself I can make a master of each those turrets and successfully cast them- I don't think I would ever be able to scratchbuild them to match, especially almost a dozen of the smaller guns'.
The 9.2 twin mount was also used on the Lord Nelson class predreadmoughts, and I have a set of plans for that. The 7.5 turrets were less common and could be a problem!
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What scale are you looking to build your cruiser in?
I was thinking of 1:96th scale. If, you are looking at this scale, I need 7.5inch turrets for Achilles (Decided to do this one as she is an Elswick girl:O) so if these are the same then we could do a swap, turrets for small guns (3pounders etc?)
We need to confirm that all the turrets are the same, the scales are the same and the tech will be the same, as I would like to have mine traverse but am not bothered about elevating barrels.
I am not in a position to start the whole project until HMS' Ready and Rupert are almost complete, though the turret could be done quite soon in my lunch times.
Whaddaya think Mr Scrambp?
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Thank you for the offer, but I think I'm going to build in 1/72. My 1/48 destroyer fits in the car nicely, and a 1/72 cruiser would be a little smaller (85 inches against 93").
I'm hoping, too, to get a little more stable model by going just a bit bigger.
The Minotaurs used 12 pounders as their anti- torpedo boat battery, and making them has been a problem I've been wondering about. What do you plan to use for the 3 pounders on your model?
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Hi Scrampb.
I plan to scrathbuild a set of patterns then mould and cast the required number I need. I have ready access to the equipment so will make best use of it:O)
Good luck woith your build, I look forward to seeing her when complete, are you going to put pictures up of the build? I love to see things to salivate over!!!
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I have a small build to do for a friend, and then "on to bigger things". Give me a month or two...
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I have contacted the NMM and they are putting an order sheet together for HMS Natal (sister to Warrior, Achilles and Cochrane). If the plan and profile plan from Taubman is cheaper than the same from NMM albeit in HOOOGE scale, then I will order frames from NMM and the rest from Taubman.
Lets see what tomorrow brings:O)