Model Boat Mayhem
Technical, Techniques, Hints, and Tips => Radio Equipment => Topic started by: Clive on June 13, 2014, 09:21:01 am
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Good morning all,
I've spent many hours/days searching and looking into the best new radio system for my needs, I would like many channels - about 10+ - I love all the electronics and gadgets from foggy units to programmable sound, lighting operated in sections from the transmitter and moving features etc. However I have found the search to be frustrating. It really feels that the R/C industry does not include model boats in its thinking.
I’ve looked at the Robbe Navy F14 and FC-16 which certainly appear to have the functions I’m after but 40MHz? Now I’m sure many of you are happy on 40MHz but I would like 2.4GHz as it has proved to be so reliable for me in the past. Also what are Robbe doing marketing a radio system at this price that looks like it came out of a 1980’s car boot sale – have they not seen the competition – I think the Graupner Hot design team have done a great job IMHO, but they are not alone in producing some excellent systems. However, and this is the crux of the matter, now that we all have access to computer based R/C and that many are fully programmable by the manufacturer and the user, why is it that all the 2.4GHz systems only have set-ups for helicopters and planes? It can’t be beyond them to include a marine option with a picture of a boat and some user friendly set-ups for typical layout, e.g. single engine, twin engine with mixer and up to 4 engine set-ups – and then a sail set-up for different mast formations or whatever (sorry not a sailing expert) – and how about submarine users? They might even allow you to name your own functions e.g. smoke on/off, fog horn etc.
I believe that a programmer worth his salt could add these options very quickly – it’s a matter of having alternative pics and names for the functions already present in the system.
Would you not think that if a manufacturer added this to their system then model boaters around the world would be very keen to buy? I certainly would, but no, having spent so many hours and pennies on building my boat and then several hundred pounds on the radio system (because I want so many things on it), I will be controlling my boat across the lake looking occasionally at the plane my transmitter appears to be controlling! :((
Frustrated Clive!
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Sorry, forgot to mention, if anybody knows of a system that does what I would like then please let me know. I would love to be proved wrong as this would end my search. :-)
Clive
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Clive
This'll do the job, but don't expect much change from £600 for the basic set! http://www.horizonhobby.co.uk/aeroonline/e6spektrum/e6_ten_t/e6_ten_t.html (http://www.horizonhobby.co.uk/aeroonline/e6spektrum/e6_ten_t/e6_ten_t.html)
Dave M
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what about the Hitec Aurora 9
ok it only has 9 channels but I have one and find it good to use.
although I don't use the mixing functions (yet)
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Dave that looks really nice, I'll try reading through the instructions, found on the Bay for £488 it's over my initial budget but might be worth saving for.
gingyer, this one is on my short list, it certainly looks like a lot for the money - may be I need to go through all the instructions - as you say 9 channel - but that could be enough.
Thanks for the input guys
Clive
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:-)) Try Turnigy TGY 9x I have two of these sets,lots of functions fully programmable,really long range, keen price about £120 with lipo battery,I use these two sets on 5 boats never had a problem,Ray. :-)) :-)) :-))
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Hello Clive,
What you say is what all have been thinking and wanting. In the boating world we do not require too much mixing, but more separate channels to control 'things', as you point out above.
The best solution is to have many toggles and switches and to this end, may I suggest using several 2.4 gig transmitters. It is possible to strip them out of their cases and build them into one box. by using (say) 3 planet transmitters at £45 each along with 3 receivers with 5 functions each
Imagine having 6 toggle levers and a row of switches at your command all on one panel. 8)
What can possibly go wrong !!!
cheers
ken
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There are a few multi-channel 2.4 units on the market.
FrSky Taranis is popular 16 channel with plenty of addons - http://www.frsky-rc.co.uk/frsky-news-frsky-taranis-transmitter-2.4g-receivers-telemetry-modules and it is available from :-
http://boltrc.com/uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=75_76&gclid=COfvrazC9r4CFYXKtAodIV0AJQ (http://boltrc.com/uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=75_76&gclid=COfvrazC9r4CFYXKtAodIV0AJQ) and https://www.t9hobbysport.com/frsky-taranis-2.4ghz-tx (https://www.t9hobbysport.com/frsky-taranis-2.4ghz-tx)
or The Turnigy 9XR Pro, which is very easy to customise. - http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__51442__Turnigy_9XR_PRO_Radio_Transmitter_Mode_2_without_module_.html (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__51442__Turnigy_9XR_PRO_Radio_Transmitter_Mode_2_without_module_.html)
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Sparky, as you say fantastic value but reading the instructions it is still focused on the flying frat. However if I were to follow Ken's suggestion then this would be a good model to start with. problem is Ken - time and expertise! I've now been drooling over the Spectrum DX10t, saw a video on tube and realise that it has optional modules the same as the Robbe F14 and also has an extra receiver that via a bus cable upgrades the channels to 18! only thought is that as I'm building rather than boating at the moment it might be worth waiting until the DX is more freely available and hence prices may fall slightly. If you don't know the DX then have a watch here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOd9OWL3QKI
I think this guy has done a great job of giving you the basics.
Cheers all :}
Clive
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Hi kinmel
I totally agree that these systems are really good, it's because so many 2.4GHz systems exist that work really reliably that I want to go with 2.4, my point is more to do with the fact that when you take them out of the box all model boaters have to work in an aeroplane mode including the aero icons etc. It would appear that Spektrum have recognised this with the DX10t but at the top end. I just think that all these other systems should have a marine set-up with boat icons etc. throughout the programming. i certainly do not think that I can’t get a system to control the items I want - I just think that the world's model boaters deserve more recognition by the R/C system manufactures.
There I go thinking that life should be fare again.
Cheers
C %%
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They are set up for the aircraft people principally because they are their main customers in the World; marine modellers hardly register on the scale in comparison.
Like the idea of buying three cheap radios and making one custom one though.
LB
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The main point to make about the computer controlled 2.4 systems is that regular users of these sets no longer think in terms of rudder channel, motor channel etc.
Since everything is programmable, we think in terms of channel numbers, each of which is set up to match that model's needs. It does not matter if you choose "Glider" , " Acrobat " or " Heli " mode because we are not using those pre-sets and we would not use a pre-set marked " Boats " either, because it is unlikely it's settings would be what we want.
We programme each channel and mixes of channels for particular boats and just use their names to later select their particular pre-sets.
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I take your points; I do think though that we often underestimate the number of boat/ship modellers in the USA, Australia Japan, and now China. Germany and many other parts of Europe also have large numbers of users for boats and a higher than expected number of model trucks that are also left out.
I fully appreciate that some do not want any marine settings, adjustable or not and are very content with things as they are, I’m not here to change anyone’s views, interesting though that Spektrum have decided to include marine specific modules for their new DX10t and DX18t. Let’s just see where things go, it could be with the rapidly rising interest in ready built models that the market is growing. I still prefer to build mine, albeit usually from a kit as a starting point.
Thank you for the input, it does help ease the frustration and make it easier to accept the situation as is.
Cheers
C :-)) :-)
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Dave that looks really nice, I'll try reading through the instructions, found on the Bay for £488 it's over my initial budget but might be worth saving for.
Steve Dean uses this set in his AFOR alien (seen at Stickyweed this year). He says the instructions are dreadful! I must confess I drooled like an idiot over the transmitter - it's to die for! There was also a bloke at Sheepy Maggots this year with a weird Rowland Emett-type R2D2 which had what looked like a convention DX18 Tx but with two mobile phone keyboards on the back. The Lord alone knows how modified that set was but the android did dozens of tricks and noises.
Just to echo why RC manufacturers don't bother too much with model boats, I saw somewhere that model helicopter and aircraft operators outnumber model boaters by 5,000 to 1! Now you also have to factor in the rapidly-growing number of quadcopter fliers. Don't forget also that a majority of boaties only use two channels and you can see why a dedicated multi-channel marine radio wouldn't make for much of a marketing triumph. I think Spektrum have stuck out their corporate necks with the DX10t and 18t, but I have to say that Horizon Hobbies are not at all forthcoming with replies to E-Mails about featuring their sets in an article I'm writing for Model Boats magazine.
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http://www.jperkinsdistribution.co.uk/detail.php?JPNO=2515303&activepage=1&Navmain=R/C%20equipment&subcatname=Multiplex%20RC
I have just started using the set above. Granted it is a bit odd looking to us seasoned boat modellers, but it is aimed squarely at the 'surface modelling' crowd. Being configured either for standard marine use, or with the press and hold of a button, switching over to Tamiya tank/truck use.
I have been running a Tamiya Sherman and HMT Resolve with it. Range is good, learning curve was steep, flexibility is good, and I love Multiplex!
As it comes it is a five channel system, but you can purchase an Rx and switch unit for about £50, giving you extra 3 amp switching functions, or a full 9 channel rx for the princely sum of £115, giving proportional (sort of ) control for 9 servos.
Weird but I love it...
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Just a thought, Multiplex is owned by HiTec, has been for a good few years and Graupner is also now controlled by a Chinese or Malayan Company, so "Made in Germany" quality is a thing of the past.( They still have a premises here,Multiplex that is, but it is more a Distribution Centre than a Factory.) I agree they turn out good kit, but how much is it HiTec development sold under the cloak of pseudo German "Quality"?
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I am quite happy with the 'designed in Germany' bit. Also quite happy that it works as specified. I dont mind 'made in China' as long as the whole thing doesn't cost thirty quid and look like a cheap copy of a mainstream handset from twenty years ago!
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Graupner is also now controlled by a Chinese or Malayan Company
South Korean, in fact. I think the last totally German radio manufacturer was Simplex. We had a customer (David King??) somewhere in the Bristol area who had a set but I haven't seen any other signs of it for a long while. I can also remember Grundig, which had a transmitter which looked like an old-style transistor radio but with sticks on the top and a receiver which comprised of a decoder and one additional plug-together module for each channel (rather like Lego). I'm afraid I couldn't get on with a transmitter that looks like that Multiplex. It's probably very ergonomically designed but there'd be too many smart-alec comments down at the lake about me playing 'Grand Theft Auto' etc!
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:o Looks like the Spektrum DX10t might be off the air for a while as I believe through the searches I've done that it has already been superseded i.e. no longer available due to an upgraded model due soon - apart from other bits I think the upgrade is bringing the voice options >>:-( seen on the likes of the Graupner higher end kit. It’ll be the DX10ts
http://www.horizonhobby.com/products/dx10t-10-channel-transmitter-receiver-only-mode-1-4-SPM2800U (http://www.horizonhobby.com/products/dx10t-10-channel-transmitter-receiver-only-mode-1-4-SPM2800US)
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Ever thought about switching a "classic boat" Tx like the FC16 to 2,4 Ghz?
I´m very happy with my FC16 with a Jeti module (Corona would also work but gives not the advantages of a Jeti module with Minibox) and self built multiswitches (www.cp-elektronik.de (http://www.cp-elektronik.de) unfortunatly german only), even if I use the new Taranis for all models with not too much functions.
Multiswitches in my point of view are perfekt if you have to control a lot of functions since you see on the first sight if a "channel" is switched on or not.
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Time Bandit, the FC16 has a lot going for it, not least the option to pop in a twin stick for the throttles; I have a few twin engine boats. I may actually go this route as it's less than the Spektrum - especially the new versions. I thought I might get an FC16 with twin sticks and one module to start and then convert to 2.4 when I have got to know the system well.
Currently looking into sound - I want to use my own sound transferred from computer and I also want a good amp and speaker. I’m also completely convinced by the “Foggy” unit so one of these is on the shopping list. I’ll keep this stuff for other areas on the forum though.
Cheers
Clive
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Clive
ACTion P100 sound unit will accept your own sounds. The P101 amplifier will run up to 15W @18volts into a decent speaker (5"+)
Details here http://www.componentshop.co.uk/p100-noisy-thing-digital-sound-playback-module.html (http://www.componentshop.co.uk/p100-noisy-thing-digital-sound-playback-module.html) and manuals here http://www.action-electronics.co.uk/art.php (http://www.action-electronics.co.uk/art.php)
Dave M
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Morning Dave
Just having a quick look at that, I had noticed it before but for some reason I had moved on and was thinking about the Graupner “soundswitch”. However, the P100 is certainly better value and with the addition of the P104 I think it will do what I want – activate an individual sound like the steam whistle on top of the engine sounds. Also the amp and speaker you mention look like the kind of thing I need – I need to get to some shows to hear and see these things – it’s going to be a busy summer – I hope. :}
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How about this...
Rich
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Rich
That's very orange, you must really know what your doing with all those controls, which one makes the tea :} , at least it shows innovation is not dead :-))
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No, nothing to do with me...that was designed and built by a gentleman named Colin Gross many years ago to control his DSRV. He couldn't find a tx to suit his needs, so he set to and built one. As you do...
Rich
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;) Last time I touched one of them I ended up back in 1968! too many knobs for me,Ray. :-)
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You want knobs? Try my FC-16...I think it has 72 functions.
Rich
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I think this is favoured choice at the moment Rich :} , just wish it came as 2.4GHz and looked a little more up to date, I know it is possible to upgrade but with some loss of functions it would appear {:-{ . Any way, looks like I might settle for 40MHz to gain the options on offer here and the fact that at least Robbe understand marine modellers needs more than most - I like the optional modules available, unfortunately at a cost though. :((
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I'm sure Robbe make a 2.4gHz version...have you looked at their website? http://www.robbe.de (http://www.robbe.de)
Just had a look...I knew they did! http://www.robbe.de/rc-fernsteuerungen/sender/sender-fuer-helis-flugzeuge.html (http://www.robbe.de/rc-fernsteuerungen/sender/sender-fuer-helis-flugzeuge.html) and scroll down about 2/3rds of the page.
Rich
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:o %% Wow, that's probably as close as I can get to my radio at present, just found one from a German shop at £398, when you add up the parts for the Fc-16, switch banks etc. it starts to look ok, cant use the twin stick module in this one though and less dedicated marine input but I'm quickly realising that you can't have it all O0 . Thanks a lot for that link.
Cheers
Clive
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No worries Clive...I wish you well with your hunt. I don't think the 'perfect radio' exists really, although the FC-16 comes very close to my wish list. It will do all I need in my Akula, and then some...I'd run out of internal room long before I used up 70 odd functions!
Rich
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My FC16 looks pretty much the same :}
My guide to a good an cheap Tx for multifunctional boats:
Buy an used FC16 transmitter (no need for reciever, the old version is also okay "boat & truck" is not a must have) ~ 20-50£
Get a corona module - http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=9770&aff=659069 (http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=9770&aff=659069) ~ 22£
Build or buy 2 of these - http://www.cp-elektronik.de/index.php/multiswitch/86-16-kanal-multiswitch (http://www.cp-elektronik.de/index.php/multiswitch/86-16-kanal-multiswitch) - self build price will be something around 25£ (mainly depending on PCB costs).
You can also buy them on ebay http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=131198220635 (http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=131198220635) / http://www.ebay.de/itm/16-Kanal-Multiswitch-Set-500mA-fuer-Futaba-Sender-/131157095705?pt=RC_Modellbau&hash=item1e89927519&nma=true&si=jSV%252Ft%252FI67OfQVWofKhUaaueLHco%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 (http://www.ebay.de/itm/16-Kanal-Multiswitch-Set-500mA-fuer-Futaba-Sender-/131157095705?pt=RC_Modellbau&hash=item1e89927519&nma=true&si=jSV%252Ft%252FI67OfQVWofKhUaaueLHco%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557)
Here in germany you can sometimes buy a completely build up transmitter for around 250€.
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They are perfect for those amongst us like me who suffer from rheuamatoid arthritis in the wrists/hands/fingers...mine sits in the Robbe tray, and with the extended sticks, I find it so comfortable to use. I had an F-14 previously, fully modded up, and that was perfect for my DSRV.
I do have the helical aerial for mine, but I'm wary of using that in a sub, I had one or two problems with the F-14 with the short aerial whilst submerged, so I tend to stick to the longer metal one.
I bought mine with the Robbe multi function module, eight channel rx, a high capacity battery pack, one set of extra switches and both sliders all fitted from DM on here, as near brand new as you could wish for...half the boxes and packets hadn't even been unpacked, for the sum of £300 ( http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,47436.0.html (http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,47436.0.html) ) I added the second switch module, a tray and the extended sticks...now it's as near perfect for my needs as I'll ever get.
Rich
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Rich/TB
I too will be using a tray unit no matter which system I go for, have had arm problems for about 6 years and am awaiting another MRI scan to try and locate problem :(( . I do find that researching and building boats (and in the background a coal fired gauge 1 GNR Atlantic locomotive) really helps keep your mind off such things :-)) . I’m really quite new to this forum and I’m amazed by the response I have had. This is the best I have come across. So many choices for control systems out there, the more you look the more you find. TB I’ll research more on your suggestions, something between self-build and off the shelf certainly looks like the cheapest option – wish I wasn’t so drawn to new & shiny things %% – message to self – listen to the experienced :-)
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You'll make a fortune with that orange one. :-))
Just what I had in mind.
ken