Model Boat Mayhem
Technical, Techniques, Hints, and Tips => Radio Equipment => Topic started by: rob on August 23, 2014, 11:34:48 am
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Having found a German shop selling these for under £500 (just) I've hit the plastic for one.
Been very happy with various F14 for many years, this looks like the modern version for me.
Anyone got one ? Any user comments ?
Look out for my F14 navy in the for sale section soon I guess.
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They can be had with a discount these days (though I personally still find it overpriced) because Spektrum apparently discontinued it. Clearance sale, sort of.
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Steve Dean has one in his AFOR alien thingy. That's the only one I know of in a floating thing.
I've tried to obtain details of this set - and particularly its switch/prop modules - from Horizon Hobbies (both UK and Inc) for an article to appear in Model Boats but they have not replied to either me or the Editor. Needless to say I can't write up anything for which there is limited detailed info.
It looks as if the standard DX10T comes with fixed switch modules to suit model aircraft and that you have to buy the marine ones as extras. On top of a basic price which hovers around £500 this looks a wee bit too pricey for most. No doubt those rich herberts who fly 1/3 scale Spitfires and twin-turbine F15s will scoff at such a trifling amount, but at this end of the pond there are folk who buy motors off E-Bay for a quid and then moan about the quality.............and the price! I almost lost faith in humanity when I found myself being expected to haggle over the price of a thirty-bob motor mount.
Good luck, Rob. I have to admit to being a little envious but >£5C for a tranny and receiver is a bit rich for my blood.
Dave M
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As long as the wife thinks it is my old F14, or flying 10j tranny I shall be alright Dave.
Must admit the price nearly put me right off, but I loved the look of it and the versatility.
I'm a bit cagey of the bondage type device they sell to hold it on, but I will have to put up with the ribbing.
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On top of a basic price which hovers around £500 this looks a wee bit too pricey for most.
I think it's too pricey for what it has to offer. Especially compared to what OpenTX-based transmitters have to offer.
Here you're stuck with Spektrum's design/ideas.
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I look in to this set. But like most was put off by the price. You could get 5 second hand F14 set for that. The only person I have seen with one is Steve Dean as mentioned above. From my under standing you can only have 10 channels unless you buy the expansion kit. On the hand set there are more that 10 switches what you do is set a switch to a channel . It is a beautiful bit of kit with a very big price tag.
A F14 Full loaded would have more channels than the DX10 . I am customizing my F14 for my ferry . They may me old but are still great bits of kit.
I would be interested in finding out more info on the DX10.
john
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If you are looking for lots of channels and memories then there is the FrSky Taranis with 16 channels and up to 60 memories. It is about 1/3 of the price of the Spektrum.
See http://www.t9hobbysport.com/frsky-taranis-2.4ghz-transmitter for the full specification
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BJ
Chalk and cheese, m'duck.
The FRsky transmitter might have umpteen channels but they are limited by the standard switches which festoon the case - which in turn are dictated by the specific requirements of aeroplane/helicopter pilots. In other words once you've used up the available switches that's it - and many of those are just simple on/off channels rather than proportional ones.
The F14/16 and Spektrum radios are modular, in that you can add a panel of switches and an encoder to the transmitter. This takes up just one channel (via a system called multiplexing) and gives you another eight switches available for such items as lights, winches, doors, lifts etc. You can add a second encoder/decoder to further enhance the number of functions available. Robbe reckon their F16 can be expanded to six proportional and thirty two switched functions. You won't get anything like that from the Taranis, which is essentially a model aircraft/helicopter set.
I agree with cos918 - the Robbe-Futaba F14/16 is still the ultimate boat radio, even though it's not 2G4. I'd also be wary of buying a radio which has been discontinued (I'd wonder why). Never mind; there's always the DX18t at nearly £8C, and that's just for the standard tranny!
I think I'll stick with my trusty Hitec Optic 6.
Dave M
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On the Taranis you just remap inputs to whatever you want to do.
Want to operate a crane on your deck: use the left stick and move propulsion to the right stick. When you're done , go back to standard mapping. And so on.
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On the Taranis you just remap inputs to whatever you want to do.
Want to operate a crane on your deck: use the left stick and move propulsion to the right stick. When you're done , go back to standard mapping. And so on.
I'm afraid I have no idea what "remapping" might involve. Could you perhaps explain?
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Can you tell me the utility to have 60 memoirs .............
To have a radio complicated it's good, that impresses the friends, have you need for it really?
Will know how to be of use to you it without the user manual in the hand?
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I'm afraid I have no idea what "remapping" might involve. Could you perhaps explain?
Let's say in the default mode - how most of us probably setup our radios:
- up/down on left stick is throttle
- left/right on right stick is rudder
By flicking a switch you change to "crane mode":
- up/down on left stick is still throttle
- left/right on left stick is now rudder
- crane can be operated with right stick
In most entry/mid-level TXs like a DX7s most channels are either "hard wired" (ie: the two sticks are channels 1-4) or can only be reassigned through an obscure setup menu. On a Taranis/OpenTX Radio (and I suspect the DX10T also has this) you have complete flexibility with multiple modes you can setup and choose while sailing/flying.
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Thanks.
Dave M
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Let's say in the default mode - how most of us probably setup our radios:
- up/down on left stick is throttle
- left/right on right stick is rudder
By flicking a switch you change to "crane mode":
- up/down on left stick is still throttle
- left/right on left stick is now rudder
- crane can be operated with right stick
In most entry/mid-level TXs like a DX7s most channels are either "hard wired" (ie: the two sticks are channels 1-4) or can only be reassigned through an obscure setup menu. On a Taranis/OpenTX Radio (and I suspect the DX10T also has this) you have complete flexibility with multiple modes you can setup and choose while sailing/flying.
Thank you for the explanation . Gives some food for thought. couple of questions.
Q1 when you switch modes does it take a lot of time.
Q2 if you took an esc off line say a bow thruster would it glitch .
john
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No glitch or delay. Everything is handled by the OpenTX firmware. On modern programmable TXs what input stick or switch is what channel is arbitrary and only a matter of software.
I assume that technically a DX7S could do it. It's just that Spektrum's software doesn't offer the feature. It's a marketing decision more than a technical one (ie: leave it to the high end TXs).
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Thanks
I like the idea .
john
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Well that wasn't quite the response I'd expected.
Have I any need for it ?. ......... Well, the ability to use any switch /slider/rotary for any use is desirable.
The sheer versatility is amazing.
Will i use all the functions ? . . . . . No of course not, but I've got almost infinite availability.
Will it impress my club mates . . . . . No idea or worry. But I certainly hope not.
£455 just for a radio set ? . . . . How many people have added up the cost of the latest kit, with motors,
Props, batteries etc etc etc.?
I've just sold my self built trike motorcycle( mainly due to advancing years) and I want something nice.
Looking at german websites, the DX10T, inline with almost all Spektrum airfare sets, there has been numerous updates on this gear to make it really really versatile. The reason for its redundancy is, I believe, the DX18 T release. But I'm assured factory backup will still be available due to the similarity with the 18.
I'm a bit concerned over the thought that my F14 navy will be worth only £91 !
I'm still worried regarding the bondage gear needed to 'strap it on'
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To have a radio complicated it's good, that impresses the friends, have you need for it really?
I don't know what kind of boat rob is going to build/operate.
But a tug / AHTS with twin propellers and twin rudders is going to require 4 channels for main propulsion: 2 ESC, 2 servos for rudders.
Add a bow thruster (and possibly a stern truster of bigger tugs) and that's already 5 or even 6 channels for propulsion alone.
Same goes with VSP (5 ch) or ASD (4 or 6 ch) tugs.
Next come lights, fire monitors, winches, anchor windlass ...
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£455 just for a radio set ? . . . . How many people have added up the cost of the latest kit, with motors, props, batteries etc etc etc.?
Rob - that's not really the point as you have to buy those items whatever type of radio you have. An expensive one just adds more to the cost.
I too toyed with buying a DX10T after slobbering all over Steve Dean's but I came to the sad conclusion that I really didn't need all of its cleverness for any current or planned project. For the same reason I sold the F16 which I'd bought for a Graupner Parat (mistake - not my sort of kit). I also got a bit miffed at Horizon Hobbies (both UK and Inc) for not bothering to reply to my E-Mails for further details and prices of the available modules for the DX10T. I thought "if they don't want my £5C+ then nuts to 'em!" I've since found that the suggested marine L2 and R2 switch modules cost an extra $190..............ouch. BTW I think all you need to attach yourself to that Tx is a neckstrap with a clip at each end; the corresponding arms fold up out of the Tx body - it's all very clever stuff. At least you don't have to fork out another large slice of wedge for a moulded plastic tray.
Broadening the subject a little, you say you wanted something nice (having sold your trike) and admitted to advancing years. I can sympathize totally. When I was sixteen all I ever wanted was a Gibson Hummingbird acoustic guitar but they cost such a mind-numbing amount that it was just an impossible dream. Now that I've sold my business I could afford to buy several Hummingbirds - but I just don't need one any more. My only excuse would be that it would be nice finally to own one - and that's really no excuse at all. Sad getting old and sensible sometimes, innit?
I think you're best advised to hang onto the F14, mate - it's got to be worth more than ninety quid so why give it away?
..............and enjoy your Spektrum radio, whatever anyone says. You deserve it 8)
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Youre right there Dave,
Dont need the Hummingbird {-)
Abum note on a hummingbird sounds
even worse than one on a bit of Japanese Plywood %%
Ned
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£455? thats the tesco value end of the market
Check out this one
http://www.electricwingman.com/jeti-duplex-ds16-transmitter.aspx?gclid=CMWIg_7UrsACFfOhtAodtHgAAQ
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Its ok Dave goes to Waitrose not Tescos %%
Ned
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Well that wasn't quite the response I'd expected.
Have I any need for it ?. ......... Well, the ability to use any switch /slider/rotary for any use is desirable.
The sheer versatility is amazing.
Will i use all the functions ? . . . . . No of course not, but I've got almost infinite availability.
Will it impress my club mates . . . . . No idea or worry. But I certainly hope not.
£455 just for a radio set ? . . . . How many people have added up the cost of the latest kit, with motors,
Props, batteries etc etc etc.?
I've just sold my self built trike motorcycle( mainly due to advancing years) and I want something nice.
Looking at german websites, the DX10T, inline with almost all Spektrum airfare sets, there has been numerous updates on this gear to make it really really versatile. The reason for its redundancy is, I believe, the DX18 T release. But I'm assured factory backup will still be available due to the similarity with the 18.
I'm a bit concerned over the thought that my F14 navy will be worth only £91 !
I'm still worried regarding the bondage gear needed to 'strap it on'
I now have X4 F14 sets of which 2 are Navy . A second hand TX + RX Navy would be lucky to make £100. a normal F14 TX + RX would be a lot less . seen them go for less than £50. Great to buy but you will get peanuts if you sell them .
Yes they are no longer made but there are than many second hand ones for sale spares are no problem. you can still get 8ch 40mhz RX
The DX10 is good but not that much better than a loaded F14. The one are were the F14 lacks is mixing
john
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And what price a fully loaded F14 ?
I believe with the two top modules, decoders and a couple of extra switches we are way over the £455
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And still no 10 channel RX,
I know because I tried to do it.
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£455? thats the tesco value end of the market
Check out this one
Lovely, isn't it? Paul Freshney brought this one to my attention a few months ago - apparently there's one in the club he goes to. Shame it's still just for things that fly, though. At least that stops me coveting one!
What's a Waitrose, Ned?
DM
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And what price a fully loaded F14 ?
I believe with the two top modules, decoders and a couple of extra switches we are way over the £455
I got F14 normal with X2 sliders X2 Tx modules X1 8 on off on switches X1 4 on off on 4 proportional switches . 8 ch RX and X2 RX 8 output modules . bigger batter for £130. Yes I know I am comparing new against new but like has been said the F14 is no longer made and the DX10 is to new for them to come round on the second hand market often .
What I am trying to say Yes the DX10 is some top kit but it is very expensive. Dont discard the F14 because she is old . There are some great bargains to be had .
john
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I think there was a topic around here on converting a Futaba FM TX to 2.4Ghz.
Might be worth a shot if you want to do away with the crystals.
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Hi All,
Just seen this thread and thought I should chip in! Least any of you (including Old Man Action) think I'm rolling in gilt edged beer vouchers, I should point out that I purchased my DX10 from Al at Al's Hobbies in Wolverton (near Milton Keynes). He has only ever sold two of these sets and the one I have was available due to a shipping error. He offered me a deal on it and at the time I was looking for a Tx/RX which had more than four proportional channels for use with my AFOR (A for Alien) project.
There is no question that the DX10 has been a total failure for Spektrum in the UK. As you all probably know our friends in mainland Europe, particularly Germany, like tray style transmitters but they have never been popular here.
Interesting to read Dave's comments about Spektrums lack of response. It may interest him to know, that in the manual for the DX10 there is no reference as to how you allocate all the extra switch and proportional channels. I contacted them in the UK and no one could tell me how to do it. I eventually figured it out and wrote to them explaining how to do it and suggested they add it to the manual. The response has been total SILENCE.
All a bit bit sad really as I'm a big Spektrum fan. I have a DX6, DX8 and of course the DX10 and they have all been rock solid when operating at range and in high RF environments (i.e. at big shows).
If you want to caress and ogle a DX10 I will be at the International Model Boat Show in November. I'm the Pool Master so I'm easy to find and if you need a clue …… then look for the Alien !
Cheers
Steve Dean
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It's arrived . . . . Superb. :kiss: O0 %% :-) :-)) :kiss: :kiss: :kiss:
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Photos please, Rob.
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I will take some, alongside my F14, for a size comparison, tomorrow.
As you can see from my avatar. . . . . Even Spock had a DX10T. :}
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Anyone care to message me with an email address, I will send you the photos, you post them here please?
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Rob has contacted me and asked that I transmit the following pictures.
I have re-sized them down to to fit on the Forum.
He will provide the commentary. :-)) :-))
ken
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next batch
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Thanks Kenny, very much
As you can see chaps, a bit wider than the F14, a bit shallower and a lot nicer looking !
Changeable to modes 1to 4 as you wish
Every one of those switches and knobs and levers can do anything you want them to do . . . . . Once you have worked it out.and yes there are two momentary switches on each stick. The handbook is woefully lacking in content.
On board charger for the lipo.
Up to 8 proportional and two switched possible as is ( or any combination )Add the x thingy and it's 18. Surely enough for anyone.
Still concerned by the bondage gear thing needed to strap it on though.
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Rob, welcome to the world of DX10T ownership.
To be blunt the manual is crap. If you can't figure out how to allocate the extra switch and prop channels then let me know and I'll try and help.
Cheers
Steve.
PS. You realise that Mr Ex-Action man Dave is going to be green with envy ….. not too green I hope as otherwise my Alien may try and mate with him!
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:-))
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There seems to be a good manual online at the Directory of instructional Manuals and User Guides under "SPM2800US DX10t". I use this site a lot for that hard to find manual or when random pushing of all the buttons in no particular order fails to work
Paul.
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Chuffy you are a star, thankyou
Lots of switches switched to no avail already.
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Rob ….. if you are having trouble allocating the extra switches and proportional channels let me know and I'll post on here the information (not in the manual) that I sent to Horizon Hobby on how to do set them up.
Cheers
Steve.
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Thankyou Steve, though to be perfectly honest, I've not spent a lot of time playing with it yet. Building boat and playing with aircraft being my excuse. If you wouldn't mind posting it here , or to my email addy I'd be very greatful.
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Hi Rob (and anyone else following this thread).
Here's how you allocate all the extra switches, buttons and proportional channels on the Spektrum DX10.
Firstly you need to be in 'System Setup' mode. You do this by holding down the roller whilst turning on the transmitter. You will then be in the 'System Setup' screen. Rotate the roller to the right and scroll down to 'Channel Assign' and then press the roller to take you into this screen. Again rotate the roller to the right and work your way through all the settings until you highlight 'NEXT' in the bottom right hand corner of the screen. If you now press the roller it will take you to 'Channel Sources'. Then left hand column shows channels 1 - 5 and the right hand column shows channels 6 - 10. Now here's the clever bit …… if you rotate the roller to Channel 6 (AUX 1) and then press the roller again you will then find that by rotating the roller you can go through a list of all the switches, buttons and extra proportional channels. Once you have chosen which switch, button or proportional function you require, then press the roller to confirm and the setting will be stored. Channel 7 (AUX 2) to Channel 10 (AUX 5) can be set by following the same process.
A little tip …… right down a list of the Channels you set and which switch, button, etc you have allocated them to and what you are using them for on the model. This will make life easier when you connect everything up to the receiver.
You will find that once you get to grips with how the procedure works then it is really easy. It's just a shame (disappointment) that Spektrum make no mention of these set-up operations in the manual.
Good luck and if you need any further help I am always delighted to help anyone & everyone in the boating community.
Cheers
Steve.
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Steve
I've been told that unlike the Robbe-Futaba F16 modules (which have switched channel outputs as well as proportional ones) the DX10t auxiliary channels are all proportional i.e. they all have 3-wire servo outputs. That means that if you wish to use one of these channels, for example, to operate lights then you would need a proprietary switch (e.g. ACTion P43, 44 etc) plugged into the receiver. Spektrum's website is devoid of any useful information like this, so as one of the few UK-owners could you confirm this, please?
Dave M
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Steve, thankyou.
That will save me hours of switchery flipping,roller waggling and head scratching.
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Hi Dave (Inertia),
Yes you are correct, in fact in my Alien project 'AFOR' which you have seen, all of the switched functions, i.e. the Aliens plasma gun (water pump), turning on the jet thrusters, etc, etc, are all triggered from the DX10 by taking AUX channels from the receiver to various Action switch modules.
For anyone reading this who is not familiar with this methodology the only consideration you need to make is to check how much current the device you are activating uses. For turning on something like an LED or two then a low current solid state (electronic) switch is fine, however if you are turning on a pump or oil burning smoke generator then you will need to use a relay based switch or a solid state switch that can handle higher currents (typically up to 10 amps).
An important tip in all this that everyone should note is that in all my models that use lots of switched functions is that they are powered by a separate battery (or batteries). Don't use the receiver battery as switching on high current devices can dip the battery voltage and in some cases cause the receiver to experience what is known as a 'brown out' and cause the receiver to loose its binding to the transmitter (2.4ghz operation).
If in any doubt don't hesitate to ask questions on the Forum as there are many people on here who like me come from an electronics background.
Steve.
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Very helpful. Thank you Steve.
ken
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Just had a conversation with some guy at Horizon Hobbies re the dx10t, all he would say is that there are only a few odd ones in the Uk as it has been superseded by the dx18T which he claims is a vastly superior set in almost every respect and then went on to say that the 10t ( not up to much compared with the 18t he said) was the same price as the new 18t £900 give a penny, rip off UK is alive and well.
Paul
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Interesting Chuffy,
If I ever use all the functions on my 10 I will certainly look at the 18, but with the latest airwear downloads for the 10 I will only be short of the (annoying on my DX9) voice prompts, wireless buddy box facility, a few obscure mixing functions and bright orange stick ends.
The 18 doesn't have the buttons x4 on the sticks and is twice the price of the 10 as well .
Quite happy as is .
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Quite so Rob, the 10 is for my needs a much better set and they are available from Germany for around £425 + P&P of about £13. The receptionist who I spoke to initially at Horizon UK having spoken to another member of staff relayed the comment that sets imported from Germany would not have their warrantees' honoured in the UK. Seems rather odd when companies like Nikon UK fall over backwards to sort out problems with imported ( purchased in another country) photographic equipment as long as it's registered with them and not of course a knock off.
My comment re rip off UK was about the UK retail prices they wanted for the 10t and the 18t, in their own words ( not mine) chalk and cheese for the same price.
Paul.
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Paul good morning,
Mine came from Germany, and when it came to registering it, the UK website seemed to accept it . . . . Time will tell I guess, but I don't suppose the UK 'branch' will have any problem accepting my money for spares and repair out of the guarantee period should it ever be needed !
I see the 18 comes with Spektrums own harness , one plus point lol.
The more I play with the programming, the more I'm finding. . . Remarkable set really.
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Hi Rob,
I'm not sure if you are aware but the DX10T is compatible with the Spektrum X-PLUS module which if used with certain receivers ( 12120, 12020 and 9020) but not the 10000 that comes as standard with the DX10. The X-PLUS module adds a further 8 proportional channels, i.e. up to 18 channels as per the DX18.
By heck it is possible to suffer from channel addiction ! O0
Steve
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Steve, re the 10t can you tell me how the banks of switches on the replaceable modules L1 - L2 for example control various functions, is it through the receiver to say a servo or do they have to connect to an electronic switcher to perform a task like turn on lights or radar.
The reason I ask is that I use a Beier sound card with a F14 Navy on 40mhz and the 8 switches on the top panel give me 16 switchable functions through one receiver channel in my set (I have put it in the no 5 slider channel) The whole system works fine and of course with fewer components parts to worry about and wire in BUT... I do like the 10t, my wrists now ache all day through a type of arthritis that's not going away and the whole 10T layout and the way it slopes slightly forward when on a neck strap is heaven. I could stick with the F14 but 2.4 is so convenient as the crystals are inside the the F14 and you would be suprised how many people still use 40mhz.
Paul
Link to what I'm talking about there are boat/ ship sounds on the site to download but it's a simple matter to do your own.
http://www.beier-electronic.de/modellbau/produkte/usm-rc-2/usm-rc-2.php?sprache=gb (http://www.beier-electronic.de/modellbau/produkte/usm-rc-2/usm-rc-2.php?sprache=gb)
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Hi Chuffy,
All the extra channels are in essence proportional channels, i.e. three wire outputs from the receiver. If you want to switch something on (like a light) then the appropriate output from the receiver needs to go some form of switch module. Of course this could be a servo operating a micro switch but that's not a very elegant solution.
There are a number of switching modules on the market some of which are solid state and others which have small relays on the circuit board. You obviously need to use a module that can handle the appropriate amount of current for what ever you are switching. As you are probably aware a few LEDs use very little current whereas a water pump will probably pull several amps.
I use switching modules from both Action Electronics (now supplied by Component Shop) and also Technobots. They all work well and I would recommend both suppliers.
If you care to scroll back up this thread you will see that Dave Milbourn (Inertia) asked the same question as yourself and you will see the reply I posted.
Always pleased to help.
Steve.
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Thank you for your reply Steve and your ability to answer my questions in a manner that I can understand. Sadly,,,,,because I really really want a 10T I am in reality going to get very little more than my F14 Navy delivers. I have just fitted an 8 switch module, giving me the ability to control 16 electronic functions on the Beier sound card as well as being able to control the volume of all the sounds from one of the newly installed switches remotely. Which ever system I use will require some form of switching modules for equipment drawing a few amps so no difference there. The major difference between the 10T and the F14 is of course the 10T is 2.4 Ghz, but with so many people migrating to that band 40Mgz receivers are very easy to get hold of now and there are new twin sticks from Germany for around £150. Another member has however pointed out that there is an orange 2.4 conversion now available for this type of set, not as a module but as a "DIY" conversion kit at around £21.00 plus the usuals.
I would however put the style and functionality of the 10t along side that of the JR PCM10 35Mhz from the 80's, one of which resides in my loft to this day.
Paul.
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Paul, there are lots of differences between the F14, though your thoughts on positive benefits is true, (which I've used for many many years, and a Simprop version before that) and the 10 T. . . . The feel of the sticks is nothing short of amazing, and the looks of fellow modellers trying to figure out what it is, is a chuckle.
Rob
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Hello Rob
My post was not meant as a criticism of the 10T, I have been able to handle one and the design of the stick is totally different to all others and made even more attractive attractive with the trim buttons on the rear, re trimming without fingers leaving the sticks, but as i am loosing feeling in my fingers bit by bit the feel of the sticks would not be a plus for me. As i fly and sail with thumb and four finger in the stick I have already experimented with a plastic sleeve over the stick to make it a little larger and easier to grip.
I agree that there are lots of differences between the two sets but none that would benefit me for in investment of £550.00.
Paul
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Look on eBay Paul, down to 440.
Didn't take it as criticism, my written words were perhaps not perfect.
Kind regards
Rob
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it's looking more inviting by the day Rob, have you been talking to RAF Launches of this forum, who would be only too pleased to tell you of my love of all things shiny and spend hours polishing same shiny things as therapy.
Paul.
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Well, spend the £440. . . . . . . . My wife tells me that is therapy.
Get the 10T . . . . It's all therapy !
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£425.
Paul
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Even more inviting !
The German site selling them were very quick with dispatch, 3 days from order to it arriving on my doorstep.
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There is one on the BFMA sales section for £250 at the moment ! Got to be bargain of the week.
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£276 including postage now on ebay
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£276 including postage now on ebay
Hmmm, can't find it... :((
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They are rising in price a bit on ebay ( from Germany) the news regarding the latest airware download to virtually turn it into DX18 spec but with keeping the stick buttons still has obviously done it some good.