Model Boat Mayhem
The Shipyard ( Dry Dock ): Builds & Questions => Steam => Topic started by: ooyah/2 on December 20, 2014, 12:18:18 am
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Having just finished a STUART boiler feed pump, my next project is to machine up a set of D10 castings.
For anybody wishing to machine a D10 or a 10V a good book to have is BUILDING A VERTICAL STEAM ENGINE by Andrew Smith which I think is available from Amazon, his instruction come in Metric and Imperial.
I started by cleaning up the Boxbed casting with a file to get rid of the casting flashings also the base plate, the first casting to be machined was the boxbed.
Pic No1
This was mounted on the lathe face plate with the top side to be machined first, with the lathe tool sharpened and honed a .010" cut was taken across the face,eventually 3- cuts were taken before I was satisfied .
Pic No2.
The boxbed was mounted onto a small face plate which is fitted to a round mandrel which allows it to be held in the 3- jaw chuck.
I then proceeded to take several cuts until I reached the drawings dimension.
Pic No 3
Pic of the 2- face plates that I use, the big one came with the lathe the small one from a club mate which I made the mandrel for, it saves a lot of time for small jobs.
Pic No 4
Now it was the turn of the base plate, as the sides on the casting are square it can be mounted in the 4- jaw with outside jaws and roughly centered,
With the bottom side up it was machined taking about 3- cuts to clean the underside.
Pic No5
It was reversed in the chuck and the top side machined to give an o/all dimension of 1/2" from the underside to the top of the bearing blocks
All in all about 4-hrs work.
Next job to tackle is the main standard, I think that this is the most delicate procedure in the whole of the D10 process which I will describe next if anybody is interested.
George.
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I'm watching and learning. Now I understand what a faceplate is. A useful Christmas pressie.
Jerry.
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I am sure you will have many viewers from around the world watching this thread as it progresses George :-))
Compliments of the season to you.......Derek
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Bonjour George,
I am the happy owner of D10 machines (but just bought), the "Rolls Royce" of the steam machines to my opinion even if the iron cylinders can rust if not correctly oiled, and I am interested indeed to see how it was born.
In particular, I was very impressed when I saw that the water pump settings were made with sheets of paper !
(https://imageshack.com/i/jdd10remont9j)
Tug JAN one (plugs on cylinder heads for oil came later)
(https://imageshack.com/i/5bd10segment5j)
Cylinder segments milled in Teflon.
and HERE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRBMj0lImus)for tug Côte d'Emeraude (with plugs on cylinder heads for oil).
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Bonjour George,
In particular, I was very impressed when I saw that the water pump settings were made with sheets of paper !
(https://imageshack.com/i/jdd10remont9j)
Cylinder segments milled in Teflon.
Raphaël
I am sorry but I do not understand what you mean by the above statements.
George.
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Bonjour George,
Sorry, my English is not perfect, especially when I have to explain a technical point.
As you can see it on the picture, the axis of the feed pump, which supports helical gear is perpendicular to the crankshaft axis.
When we screwed it, it was too tight, so, we have been obliged to put thin shims to give it some room to operate. And the friend who restored my D10 told me that Stuart used to make these shims with pieces of paper of the appropriate thickness. Unfortunately, I did not take any picture of them. Is it more clear for you now ?
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/497x373q90/705/d10pompe.jpg)
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Raphaël
Thanks
I fully understand, yes paper & shim brass can be used to pack up the worm wheel shaft in order to get clearance.
I still have to come to that of machining the pump, as I don't have the pump base casting I will be fabricating the bearing supports from stock material.
What about the CYLINDER SECTIONS MILLED IN TEFLON ?
George.
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Re bonjour Georges,
I was told that some pistons had two or three thin grooves to make the sealing with water and oil, but the ones I own have single segments.
When my friend opened the cylinders (it was a second hand machine), we discovered that the pistons segments had rust, damaging the cylinders.
Because of this, to clean the cylinders, he increased their diameter (19,6 mm ==> 20+ mm) with his lathe and, in order to keep the pistons which were yet correct, he made teflon rings to the final diameter of the cylinders, thickness remaining equivalent to the original ones (+/- 2mm), made a little diagonal cut to transform them as segments. And the sealing is now perfect.
On my little steam machines, I find very often Viton segments.
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Hi Raphael.
I have never used Teflon on pistons but I always fit Silicone "O" rings to my pistons which is very effective as no doubt Teflon is.
I have fitted cast iron rings to a Stuart launch engine, 2- rings /piston. but never had steam through the engine, I feel that there is quite a bit of drag with the cast rings but maybe I have made them too tight.
Here is a pic of a D10 piston with Silicone "O" ring fitted.
George.
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Hi George,
I will certainly be watching this one as I have a set of D10 castings that have been ageing in my shop for a while. Are you going to add the reverseing gear to this one?
Regards,
Gerald
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Hi George,
I will certainly be watching this one as I have a set of D10 castings that have been ageing in my shop for a while. Are you going to add the reversing gear to this one?
Regards,
Gerald
Yes Gerald,
I shall be making the Stevenson revers gear and also an engine driven pump of which I shall have to make the bearing supports from stock material.
I will not be installing drain cocks as I consider them a waist of time and money.
The other thing that I don't like about the D10 design is the round drag link bars on the revers gear , I make them from strip brass, I have considered in the past making the drag links from steel but having seen a few D10 with them made from steel they are inclined to rust.
Here are a couple of pics of a D10 that I built last year, this one is fitted with needle valve drain cocks, self made, but still a waist of time.
George.
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Hi George, Signed in for this one
You never know you may persuade me to make on of these funny steam engine thingy ma bobs
Best wishes
Frazer
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Hi George, Signed in for this one
You never know you may persuade me to make on of these funny steam engine thingy ma bobs
Best wishes
Frazer
Hi Frazer,
Thanks for looking in, this thread may inspire you to build a real engine , not those Black Magic hot air engines that you are famous for.
George.
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Oh you never know
Black Magic , thought that was summit you bought the wee squeeze to say sorry
Iv even sharpened the 3D CAD pencils :-)) and a runner :-))
All the best
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| Next job was to machine the 2- standards
Again the flashing from the casting had to be roughly filed off before mounting in the 3- jaw chuck.
Once mounted roughly center the standard until its running reasonably true, turn the standard so that the feet are standing at 908 to the bed plate.
Bring the tool up until it touches the trunk guide, wind the carriage back and then turn the standard thro' 180* and then bring the carriage back and bring the tool up to touch the trunk guide, repeat this until both sides are equal.
Pic No 4
Do the same with the standard feet until the tool touches both sides and then go back and double check the settings on the trunk guide and the feet.
Make a wooden plug that has a shoulder to be a push fit in the trunk guide cored hole, bring up the tale stock with a revolving head and pierce the wooden plug,lock everything up securely and then take very light cuts to the standard feet, .010 at a time in case the leg of the standard snaps.
Next step I turned the standard around and mounted it on the face plate, which can then be centered using the machine pointer and once running reasonably true start boring out the trunk guide, be careful with this as the tool bumps every time it passes over the open spaces in the trunk guide.
Light cuts are required as it can knock the standard out of line if too big a cut is taken, again about .010" cut.
Note that the last pic showing the boring tool that the standard is mounted on the large face plate, I forgot to take a pic when setting it up on the small one.
On this setting the Top flange can be machined to size and that completes the standard machining
Fellas ,
Please excuse the picture sequence I have made quite a mess of them .
They should be .
Pic No 3--!st
Pic No 4--2nd
Pic No 5--3rd.
Pic No 1--4th
Pic No 2--5th
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Hi George - I shall follow this with a keen interest ok2 .
I have an old D10 for the Wide a Wake but it really needs a complete rebuild and a reversing gear. I was thinking of sleeving the bores with bronze and using PTFE packing - works very well on air but how that will stand up to steam I'm not so sure - any thoughts?
Also, do you find the standard Stuart Stephenson's reversing gear easy to operate using servo control? And could you give me an idea of the length of your sub plate including the water pump as this is something else I need to make too - I will have to scratch build it as I have no drawings of it.
Keep up the good work
Regards - Ramon
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George, it is great to watch your progress but as a sideline I am interested in your comments about drain cocks being a waste of time. I have a single cylinder double acting engine built to the A H Rayman design which, once it is running, goes very well. The problem is getting it started. From cold in particular but also when it has been stopped for any more than a few minutes it gets what I have always thought was some sort of hydraulic lock caused by condensed steam. It takes lots of rocking back and forth until it eventually can be forced over centre and pumps the water out to get running. This is about the time that the paddlewheels try to take my fingers off. I also have to alternate with the steam valve open and closed. I have had a club member with lots of experience check things such as valve timing and he says the engine is built and timed as per the book of instructions. I had thought I would need to remove and strip the engine and have cocks fitted but if you have an alternative way of the solving the problem I would be most grateful to hear about it. Thanks in advance, Ian
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George, it is great to watch your progress but as a sideline I am interested in your comments about drain cocks being a waste of time. I have a single cylinder double acting engine built to the A H Rayman design which, once it is running, goes very well. The problem is getting it started. From cold in particular but also when it has been stopped for any more than a few minutes it gets what I have always thought was some sort of hydraulic lock caused by condensed steam. It takes lots of rocking back and forth until it eventually can be forced over centre and pumps the water out to get running. This is about the time that the paddlewheels try to take my fingers off. I also have to alternate with the steam valve open and closed. I have had a club member with lots of experience check things such as valve timing and he says the engine is built and timed as per the book of instructions. I had thought I would need to remove and strip the engine and have cocks fitted but if you have an alternative way of the solving the problem I would be most grateful to hear about it. Thanks in advance, Ian
Your engine was designed as a straight runner , as I have mentioned in your other post, and like all other single cylinder double acting engines if stopped will not start again without some method of kicking it over either T,D.C. or B.D.C.
So when it stops after a while you will get a hydraulic lock and you are very fortunate that you manage to get it started again out on the water.
I have had a 10V without drains fitted but have had a mechanical gear box driven by an electric motor to restart and reverse the engine using slip eccentric gear and never have had any hydraulic locks after it's started.
Same with D10's but you do have to turn the prop over by hand to clear the condensate to get the engines started and with the D10 there has never been any problems with condensate out on the water when running or the occasional stop. and drain cocks are more trouble than worth.
I don't see any improvement fitting Cock valves to your engine nor can you fit slip eccentric as it's an enclosed crank case.
The only drains that work are needle valve drains which are maintenance free where as the Cock type eventually leak and are difficult to seal.
George.
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Contiuing next is the cylinders.
Again it's important to file off the casting flashes.
Firstly try and get the valve face as flat as possible either by hand file or mill a flat face.
Set it up in the 4-jaw with packing on the 4- jaws.
Square up the valve face with a small square , do the same with the side, with the machine pointer true up the cored bore as true as you can get.
Measure the o/all length of the casting and check with drawing size ,it can then be faced taking of half of the difference of the length on both side.
Bore thro' to final 3/4" bore with boring bar and then face of one end, when done take the cylindr off and mount it on a mandrel and face the other end to size.
The mandrel is a piece of 3/4" dia B.M.S. with a piece thin paper used to jam the cylinder on the mandrel to allow facing the other end which ensures that it's square to the bore.
Next job is the top and bottom covers.
Next job is to machine the top and bottom covers.
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Merry Xmas George. What is a machine pointer?
Jerry.
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Merry Xmas George. What is a machine pointer?
Jerry.
Hi Jerry,
Merry Christmas to you.
Truthfully I don't know the excact name for it but it's an adjustable pointer mounted on a machined base which I use alot for centering and trueing on the 4- jaw.
I hope the pic tells a story'
George.
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Got you George, an aid to the eye, like when trueing a wheel rim.
Jerry.
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Before starting to machine the top and bottom covers which come as a cast iron blank 1.375" dia, the finished dia of the covers is 1.375" so it's required to give then a polish when the other processes have been completed.
The blank is large enough to hold and machine the bottom of the cover to fit the standard and to bore thro" then drill and tap 5/15 x 26 for the packing gland all at the same setting
I made a large collet from a piece of round tube which I was able to machine a recess the same dia as the cover with a 3/32" landing, cut a 1/16" slot to grip the casting in the 3- jaw. the casting was then reversed and able to be machined to the 1/32"landing size to fit the bottom of the cylinder.
Next I will start on the bearings and themain shaft.
George.
This completed the base plates, standard, cylinder and covers.
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Your engine was designed as a straight runner , as I have mentioned in your other post, and like all other single cylinder double acting engines if stopped will not start again without some method of kicking it over either T,D.C. or B.D.C.
So when it stops after a while you will get a hydraulic lock and you are very fortunate that you manage to get it started again out on the water.
I have had a 10V without drains fitted but have had a mechanical gear box driven by an electric motor to restart and reverse the engine using slip eccentric gear and never have had any hydraulic locks after it's started.
Same with D10's but you do have to turn the prop over by hand to clear the condensate to get the engines started and with the D10 there has never been any problems with condensate out on the water when running or the occasional stop. and drain cocks are more trouble than worth.
I don't see any improvement fitting Cock valves to your engine nor can you fit slip eccentric as it's an enclosed crank case.
The only drains that work are needle valve drains which are maintenance free where as the Cock type eventually leak and are difficult to seal.
George.
Thanks for the advice George. Just to make things clear the Rayman engine has never stopped on me when out on the water even when I throttle it right back, my only problem with lock is at the poolside when starting up for the first time or after stopping to top up the lubricator or change a gas cannister. It seems the needle valve drains are what I need, can you point me to any information about how they are made and whereabouts on the engine they should be fitted? regards, Ian.
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Sorry for going off topic, but regarding Ian’s Rayman engine. On a slide valve engine, in order to get rid of condensate when starting from cold, the slide valve has to lift a little. It occurs to me that the problem could be caused if the valve on the Rayman engine cannot lift sufficiently, maybe the valve rod is not allowing any movement or the valve is very close to the valve chest cover (or possibly both). Just a thought.
Malcolm
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Thanks for the advice George. Just to make things clear the Rayman engine has never stopped on me when out on the water even when I throttle it right back, my only problem with lock is at the poolside when starting up for the first time or after stopping to top up the lubricator or change a gas cannister. It seems the needle valve drains are what I need, can you point me to any information about how they are made and whereabouts on the engine they should be fitted? regards, Ian.
Ian,
With all single cylinder double acting or Twin cylinder engines you need to get rid of the condensate on start up.
Feed in some steam and keep turning the prop over by hand and the condensate will get spat out of the exhaust port as the valve lifts and you will need to do this every time you stop, fill up or what ever to restart the engine.
As Malcolm says the valve may be too tight on the face but I doubt this as it only takes a few thou" lift to let the condensate pass and if the valve was held down so tight not to allow this you would have tremendous ware on the valve.
I have had a look at the drawing and if the builder machined to the drawing there should be enough lift to clear the condensate.
If you want needle valves you will have to make them but I still think that they will be a waste of time and if you want to fit them the cylinder casting of the engine used a Stuart 10V cylinder casting so there will be bosses cast in to fit cock valves or needle valves.
George.
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The next step was to make the bearings from the Stuart extrusion.
Pic No 1
From the book BUILDING A VERTICAL STEANM ENGINE I use a small piece of sheet steel x 1/32" thk which is about correct for a packer, this saves the tedious method of setting up the bearings in the 4- jaw for every bearing.
It's now an easy job to machine one end to size, bore thro' and ream take it off of the chuck and with a saw cut it oversize and put back in the 3- jaw and machine to size. I use this process for the bearings.
Pic No 2
The central bearing is split so I machine the bearing to overall dimensions but don't bore it thro'.
I mill the bearing down to the small pip left when facing.
Pic No 3.
Is the bottom half machined from a piece of brass or cast bronze to the same dia as the top bearing casting, machine it down to half size and the soft solder it to the top half.
this can now be put back into the 3- jaw with the packing strip, bored and reamed, turned around and finished to size.
Pic No 4.
Is a piece of 9/32" dia shaft set up with the bottom bearing in place, the top half is lying on top of the base plate.
Pic no 5.
Bearings in place ready for drilling and tapping.
Not forgetting that the central bearing requires an adjusting screw from the underside of the base casting to hold it in position below the top half, this will be done at a later stage.
George
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That's it. I'm hooked. Bought the book. Do you see any problems attempting this engine on my Taig rig?
Jerry.
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That's it. I'm hooked. Bought the book. Do you see any problems attempting this engine on my Taig rig?
Jerry.
Jerry
I am not familiar with your TAIG Lathe, is it like the PETOL lathe, nor it's size as to whether it could machine the 10V engine.
You would need a face plate about 4" dia min, to hold the standard while machining the feet and a
4- jaw chuck with outside jaws to hold the base plate to machine the top side and bottom side, also you would need the 3- jaw to be able to take the 1.375" dia of the standards top cover.
All other parts I would guess that you would be able to make on a small lathe.
Or if your lathe could take my small face plate which is 6" dia and the stub shaft is 1.5" dia you could borrow that to machine the standard and the base .
Failing all that if you crossed my palm with silver or bacon butties I would machine these parts for you.
George.
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Jerry,
Found these pics of my face plate.
Face plate is 4" dia.
Stub mandrel is 1.25" dia.
Will it fit your lathe?
George.
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George, thanks for getting back to me. Peatol and Taig are one and the same. Called Peatol in UK. Lathe spindle is 3/4" x 16 tpi. I don't know what thread form is though. Supplied faceplate is 3 1/4" diameter. Swing is 4 1/2". 3 jaw chuck will be ok and 4 jaw chuck has reversible jaws so works inside and out. May be possible to make an adapter to enable use of a 4 1/2" faceplate. I'll think of something.
Jerry.
Ps. Just noticed what you meant by stub mandrel. That would fit in my chucks.
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Hi Guy's,
Looking good so far George. :-))
Jerry, the 3/4" x 16tpi is UNF threadform.
Also are you aware that Taig make a raising kit to increase the max. swing to 6"
http://www.taigtools.com/c1250.html (http://www.taigtools.com/c1250.html)
This raises the headstock and tool post.
They also have a tailstock raising adaptor to match. Part no. 1251.
Not sure if these can be obtained in the UK but should be easily got from the USA.
Have a great New Year guys.
All the Best.
Sandy. :-)
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Thanks for that Sandy. Riser kit is available from uk chap.
Jerry.
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Hi George like the others I'm hooked on this! Definitely one to watch :-)) I was just wondering like Jerry about your machine pointer? I would be using a DTI for this task but was wondering if the rough castings prevented this so a more practical solution was needed? Good luck going forward - Mark
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Hi George like the others I'm hooked on this! Definitely one to watch :-)) I was just wondering like Jerry about your machine pointer? I would be using a DTI for this task but was wondering if the rough castings prevented this so a more practical solution was needed? Good luck going forward - Mark
Hi Mark,
There are quite a few things that I do that are unconventional and the pointer is a very useful tool.
A D.T.I. is no use on rough castings so you have to use your eyes and judgment, the only time that I use the D.T.I. is on machined surfaces.
A piece chalk is another useful tool especially working on castings, if you chalk up the casting after you have filed off all of the flashings you can set it up and turn the chuck over and mark the high spots with the pointer.
I am not a trained machinist and have limited machinery, but after being at this game for some years I have picked up lots of hints along the way, so hang in here and you may see some more, thanks for commenting.
George.
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George, thanks for getting back to me. Peatol and Taig are one and the same. Called Peatol in UK. Lathe spindle is 3/4" x 16 tpi. I don't know what thread form is though. Supplied faceplate is 3 1/4" diameter. Swing is 4 1/2". 3 jaw chuck will be ok and 4 jaw chuck has reversible jaws so works inside and out. May be possible to make an adapter to enable use of a 4 1/2" faceplate. I'll think of something.
Jerry.
Ps. Just noticed what you meant by stub mandrel. That would fit in my chucks.
Jerry ,
The stub mandrel will go straight into your chuck and you can use the 4" face plate, if you have a 3.24" face plate you should just be able to catch the standards feet on it to allow machining of the top flange.
I don't know anything about your lathe so why would you need raising blocks.
You should be able to machine a 10V on your lathe but could struggle with a D 10 base plate and boxbed.
Sandy may have tried a D10 on this lathe so Sandy knows more about it than me, anyway we are all here to learn and help.
George.
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Hi Guy's,
I have not personally tried a D10 baseplate on a taig/peatol lathe, but a local friend has and he had trouble with it... the corners of the base casting were catching on the bed.
The rising block mod would allow this to be done... however, it does place a lot more stress on the crosslide and tool post due to the additional offset created... so much lighter cuts are necessary.
I ended up doing his for him on my VMC mill which was quicker than setting it up on the Myford faceplate.
If you have milling facilities Jerry then the D10 base can be done with this... the taig will handle the standards ok with a bit of carefull clamping to the 4 1/2" faceplate.
Keep happy.
Sandy. :}
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Jerry,
I didn't realise that your machine was so small, don't know if you intend to build the D10 or the 10V so thanks to Sandy for the link to your machine, which engine are you going to build ?
The following dimensions may be of help to you.
The dimension on the D10 base plate is 4" cape to corner.
The boxbed that the base plate sits on is 4.5" cape to corner.
10V
The base plate is 3" cape to corner.
Boxbed is 3.5" cape to corner but has 2- cast fixing lugs which have a dimension of 4" o/all
I hope this
helps you to asses whether you can hold it on your face plate and have clearance over the lathe bed.
On my last post with pics I missed the one showing my method of filing the base plate to take the bearings using a 3/8" round file.
It would have been much easier if I had a 7/16" ball end cutter to mill out the slots and then a little filing to get clearance.
George
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George, if you remember I just managed to turn the ends of the boiler shell with 25 thou clearance from the bed. I'm going to build the D10. I think I can probably do it on the Taig but if any problems I have the use of an American lend lease lathe. It's all a bit sloppy now but will do the job. I used it to turn the boiler former.
Jerry.
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Pic No 1
The crank webs were cut from my last piece of 5/32" x 1/2" bright mild steel bar( I don't think that this size is now available)
4- Pieces were cut all to the same length and a little over size,
I marked off the 9/32" hole center in each of the pieces , set them up individualy in the machine vice, borored the 9/32" hole and then moved the "Y" table up .375" and bored a 1/4" dia hole, this is for the big end journal which is (/32" dia with each end shouldered and reduced to 1/4" dia with the dimension of 5/16" between shoulders.
The same was done for all 4- webs.
Each of the journals were coated with Loctite 603 and pressed into the webs with a piece of 9/32" rod inserted in the 9/32" hole but not glued to line up the webs.
Pic No 2
When the glue was set the spacing of the webs can fixed to the main shaft with a coating of 603 and left overnight to cure.
Pic No 3 and 4
When cured the holes for the taper pins can be drilled thro' the webs and the main shaft.
5/64" taper pins are used and with a light tap with a small hammer they are fixed in place, I only fit the taper pins to the main shaft but not to the big end journals as the 603 will never allow them to move.
Pic No5
With the shaft now fixed solid it can be put into the lathe and the big end journals only can be machined to a radius using very light cuts.
The web ends at the main shaft are filed into a radius and the lot is polished with emery cloth..
The center piece between the webs and the main shaft can now be cut out with a hack saw and the cut ends filed smooth and polished
Pic No 6
Is the completed shaft fabricated and glued with 603..
Pic no 7.
The underside of the base plate has a 1/4" slot milled thro' the central web and is then is bored and tapped 6 BA to take an adjusting grub screw to take up any slack in the underside half bearing in the center support.
The shaft runs very true and is slightly stiff but can be turned over by hand , it just needs some running in.
A HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ONE AND ALL.
George.
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Having a couple of hours over the New Year festivities I decided to make and fit 3- oil cups to the bearings.
Chuck up a piece of 1/4" A.F brass hex I machined down the hex for 1/4" with round nose tool, drill and bore 3/16" x 5/16" deep and drill 1/16" dia x 3/4" deep..
Leave 1/8" of the hex bar and with parting tool machine back for 1/4" and part off, repeat for the other 2 off.
Turn the job around and grip on the hex, machine the end down to 5/32" dia and thread 5/32 x 40 t.p.i.
I had to adjust the length of the threaded part to clear the shaft on fitting as the Stuart drawing shows the oil cup fitting being bored thro' 5/32.
After a pleasant couple of hours job done..
George.
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Hi George, just quietly watching and learning :-))
Best wishes for the new year
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Hi George,
happy new year to you and yours.
nice to see a clever made D10.
Alain
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Happy New Year George - that's coming on well :-))
Is it usual to install the engine with the box-bed or can that be left off?
I was planning on installing mine without but on hardwood bearers in turn mounted on an ali sub plate. Would that that make sense?
Thanks for your help so far - looking forwards to the rest of the build
Regards - Ramon
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Hi Ramon,
I have only used the box bed as a mount for the engine .
When I make the fly wheel the box bed lifts up the engine to allow the F/Wheel to be turned by hand.
I will eventually mount the engine the way that you want on an Ali base mounted on 5/16" square Ali runners that I can buy from B&Q, I think I posted a pick of the Ali bed plate at the start of my postings. ( page No 1 post No 10 )
I will start the F/Wheel next and as there is so much power in the D10 I make a taper sleeve for the F/Wheel to fit on the main shaft
I have found that a grub screw to hold the F/Wheel on even with a flat milled on the main shaft it just strips a groove on the main shaft if you switch into reverse when the engine is running, I.E. an emergency stop.
George
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George...I would be grateful as time progresses if you could explain more about your proposed taper locking bush for the flywheel to crank on your D10
I do understand and have used keyed Fenner Taper-Lok bushes for over 40 years in industry ...however in scale size are we not again getting back down to M2 or M3 HPGS?
My build has a 50mm diameter webbed flywheel on each end of the 4.0mm diameter paddle shaft, each wheel has two M3 tapping's on either side of the hub [four in total]
The area of concern is that the contact point on the M3 HPGS to the shaft is so small that I share the issue you note
Another complication is if the engine were reversed at speed, I would also be contending with the rotational mass of both 120 diameter paddle wheels ... Derek
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'Morning George
I had seen the pics but it hadn't registered (age thing) - thanks
Note taken re the flywheel - sounds like a split tapered collet as used on prop drivers on I/C engines is required.
Derek - I note that lagging :-)) very nice. I can see some appears spiral wrapped but what is or how have you applied the areas that appear straight and smooth.
Regards - Ramon
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Ramon......again without stealing the thread from George
1. the lagging system is from Jerry C.......string & Polyfiller ....sand down in a radial motion & paint
2. my only extension was 1/8" ID Teflon washers to the tube spools prior to the string & Polyfiller installation
3. the spiral wrap is simply an addition of radial string......for tubes on the HP side of the system.....
Derek
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Thanks Derek - all duly noted - I like the idea of using PolyFilla to fill the ridges.
Back to you George ;)
Ramon
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Hi Ramon,
Knowing Derek he has probably mixed his pollyfilla with Vegimite to add some strength :D {-) .
Keep happy guy's.
Sandy. :}
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MAKING A SPLIT TAPER COLLET FOR FLYWHEEL.
Chuck the flywheel casting in the lathe using the outside jaws and machine the dia as near as possible to the chuck jaws,
turn the casting around so that the boss side is away from the chuck face and machine to meet the other cut, bore thro' 3/8" dia.
Leave the F/Wheel in the chuck and offset the top slide 2.5 deg , with a small boring bar machine the taper but don't allow the 3/8" hole be enlarged at the front as the screwed end has to pass thro'.
Once completed the casting can be removed from the chuck
To make the taper sleeve chuck up a piece of mild steel no less than 5/8" dia x 1.5" long and with the top slide still at the same setting machine a parallel 3/8" dia x 1/2" long, screw 3/8" X 26 t.p.i. or any other that you have dies for.
Once threaded bore thro 9/32" dia and make a small under cut with a parting tool 1/2" from the end.
At this under cut start to machine the taper checking for fit as you go making sure that the F/Wheel edge comes up to the start of the thread, the under cut allows the F/Wheel to be pulled onto the taper
With the tapered collet still in the chuck put the F/Wheel on to the taper and lock up with a 3/8" x 26" t.p.i. nut, it can then be machined to size and the end faced.
At this stage the F/Wheel can be removed and the taper sleeve parted off from the M/Steel barPut the nut on to the parted off collet and hold it in a vice allowing 4- slots to be cut with a hacksaw, make sure that it's a new blade which prevents wandering, finish with a polish.
F/Wheel can now be mounted on a piece of 9/32" dia rod which is center bored each end, mount the job in the chuck ,held at the other end with a revolving center and now with very light cuts it can be finally machined true and polished.
We now have the 3- components of the taper collet, and lastly fitted to the 9/32" dia main shaft which runs very true.
As can be seen the F/Wheel will foul the ground if not mounted on the boxbed which will be replaced later.
George.
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George...I would be grateful as time progresses if you could explain more about your proposed taper locking bush for the flywheel to crank on your D10
I do understand and have used keyed Fenner Taper-Lok bushes for over 40 years in industry ...however in scale size are we not again getting back down to M2 or M3 HPGS?
My build has a 50mm diameter webbed flywheel on each end of the 4.0mm diameter paddle shaft, each wheel has two M3 tapping's on either side of the hub [four in total]
The area of concern is that the contact point on the M3 HPGS to the shaft is so small that I share the issue you note
Another complication is if the engine were reversed at speed, I would also be contending with the rotational mass of both 120 diameter paddle wheels ... Derek
Derek
I have waited until I had the Taper sleeve made so that you could see what I have made,
I don't think that you have enough shaft protruding to make sleeves for both brass wheels.
I have always found it a problem of the Grub screws tearing the shaft when you go into reverse even with a generous flat milled on the shaft and your problem is compounded by the small dia of your shaft, at 4mm its .001" larger than 5/32 Dia.
May I suggest that if you have 2- grubs to each boss could you drill thro' the shaft 90deg from the grubs and insert a taper pin ?
I presume that when you finally get the plant into a ship you will remove the 2- fly wheels and fit paddles, will this mean extending the shafts to take the paddles by making couplings to widen the drive shaft.
If so at that time you could fit taper pins to the couplings.
George.
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Thankyou George for the explanation & photographs.......your design will certainly be food for thought down the track
You are correct with concern on the smaller diameters, my quandary is that the flywheels are also being used as the mechanical coupling between the engine crankshaft and the 200 mm long shaft extensions to the paddles
I have installed an ACTion P96 servo slow down to the ACS steam regulator & set this for a gentle ~~8 seconds for each direction for the 90 degree movement, so it should be literally impossible to impose a high velocity directional moment to the shafts
The next consideration maybe a micro switch mounted on the steam regulator servo that requires a ZERO position as a permissive to allow the engine reversing servo to operate
Derek
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Thankyou George for the explanation & photographs.......your design will certainly be food for thought down the track
You are correct with concern on the smaller diameters, my quandary is that the flywheels are also being used as the mechanical coupling between the engine crankshaft and the 200 mm long shaft extensions to the paddles
I have installed an ACTion P96 servo slow down to the ACS steam regulator & set this for a gentle ~~8 seconds for each direction for the 90 degree movement, so it should be literally impossible to impose a high velocity directional moment to the shafts
The next consideration maybe a micro switch mounted on the steam regulator servo that requires a ZERO position as a permissive to allow the engine reversing servo to operate
Derek
Hi Derek,
I would suggest you reconsider your slow servo on the regulator... especially if you add a Zero point switch for reversing direction.
Set up like this it will take you at least 16 seconds to go from full ahead to full astern which, in an emergency situation, could land you in a collision condition... a heavyish model at full ahead or full astern can travel a long way in 16 seconds.
By all means add a zero point switch if you feel the need as it is not advisable to slam from full forward to full reverse with Stephenson gear... this would put considerable strain on the Stephenson linkage let alone the paddleshaft.
As long as you slow the engines down to a very low rpm (preferably stopped) before changing valve gear/rotation direction you should not have any problem in normal operation... in an emergency you need things to move a lot quicker... even if the risk is some minor mechanical damage...
Much better than a wreck situation. <:(
Just my 2 pence worth.
Keep happy.
Best regards.
Sandy. :-)) :}
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Morning Sandy......how is the Haggis? {-)
Thanks for your comment, however I won't clog up Georges D10 build thread but will post comments/questions in my Saito engine thread when I have experimented a little
Derek
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Hi Derek,
Understood.
My apologies to you George.
Best Regards.
Sandy. :-))
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When it's convenient George, will you give us a tutorial on taper pins. I am confused by the pic that shows what appear to me to be broken drill bits for pins in crank webs.
Jerry.
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When it's convenient George, will you give us a tutorial on taper pins. I am confused by the pic that shows what appear to me to be broken drill bits for pins in crank webs.
Jerry.
Broken drill bits indeed !!!!!
Jerry wash your mouth out with Paraffin, no expletives allowed on this forum.
Jerry
What you see in the pic is a very poor quality and the taper pin shown is only 5/64" dia, which is reflecting the light..
Taper pins are bigger at one end , smaller at the other and the pins are ground steel, you need a taper reamer to fit them and the smaller the reamer the more costly they are.
Once fitted these taper pins stay in place but as long as they are not driven in you cam tap them back out before final fit.
You can also get Roll pins which are parallel and made of spring steel, they have a slot full length and are slightly over size so that you can drive them in and get them back out, not for crank webs as they need to be flushed off but as they are hardened steel they knock seven bells out of your file.
Here is a link for taper pins , explained much better than I can.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taper_pin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taper_pin)
You can also Google Roll pins and there are good explanations for them.
George
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Hi,
Regarding the rate of change in direction of the D10. I've had no problems with my D10 doing 600RPM or more and immediately slamming into astern and then back to ahead as a standard manoeuvre and, since there is no steam regulator in my system, there is no means to shut off the steam; the launch displaces 35kg.
See YouTube:- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HV4s9MjfaQ
At 2:30 into the video, you can witness the need for an immediate astern manoeuvre as the rocks appeared ahead!
The steam launch has no flywheel and just relies on the 5 inch (125mm) prop acting as one.
I hope this helps in the decision making process.
Ian
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Hi,
Regarding the rate of change in direction of the D10. I've had no problems with my D10 doing 600RPM or more and immediately slamming into astern and then back to ahead as a standard manoeuvre and, since there is no steam regulator in my system, there is no means to shut off the steam; the launch displaces 35kg.
See YouTube:- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HV4s9MjfaQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HV4s9MjfaQ)
At 2:30 into the video, you can witness the need for an immediate astern manoeuvre as the rocks appeared ahead!
The steam launch has no flywheel and just relies on the 5 inch (125mm) prop acting as one.
I hope this helps in the decision making process.
Ian
Ian,
Stick a F/Wheel on your engine and see what happens.
I have experience of the F/Wheel chewing the main shaft on a 10 V never mind a D10 .
On both occasions I had to drill and tap 6 ba thro' the boss and the shaft to fit a H.T. Socket head cap screw.
All my engines including my flashsteamer has taper lock collets fitted which has cured the problem.
Possibly slamming into reverse without cutting off the steam has caused you to replace your Stevenson gear.
George.
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Blimey George you've got a good memory re the Stephenson gear - that was nearly three years ago!
When you suggest fitting a flywheel, are you suggesting it would improve the performance?
I also fitted a 6BA steel screw through the boss and shaft (it may have been your suggestion) having had experience of the grub screw on flats chewing up.
As I have said, I haven't the luxury of any valve between the boiler and the D10 - its just a straight through arrangement with no throttling losses.
Ian
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Blimey George you've got a good memory re the Stephenson gear - that was nearly three years ago!
When you suggest fitting a flywheel, are you suggesting it would improve the performance?
I also fitted a 6BA steel screw through the boss and shaft (it may have been your suggestion) having had experience of the grub screw on flats chewing up.
As I have said, I haven't the luxury of any valve between the boiler and the D10 - its just a straight through arrangement with no throttling losses.
Ian
Ian,
No it will not improve the performance by virtue of your 5" dia prop but if you had steam throttle control it will save a great deal of ware on the Stevenson gear if you could shut off the steam, reverse the gear and apply steam to drive the engine.
I have a D10 in a 42" x 32 lb Steam tug CERVIA and doing as you were slamming it into reverse I knackered a servo and replaced it with a steel geared one that I now use only in dire emergency to stop the boat.
Other than that it's steam off, reverse and away I go, steam off and then forward.
George
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Making Con rods
Normally when machining the casting for the Con rods you could grip the rod in the 3-jaw with the machining stub but these castings are very poor , looks as tho' there has been some movement while casting so the stub had to be machined in order to get the casting running reasonably true.
I filed the outside of the big end in a rotary motion and gripped it in the 4- jaw and trued it up with my trusty surface pointer, this allowed the outside edges to run true.
Did the same with the flat side of the casting and trued it up which it was now running reasonably true and the stub could then be machined until all of the rough parts were gone.
At this point the end of the casting can be machined square.
I could then grip the stub back in the 3- jaw to machine the Con rod to size.
After machining the big end dia to size the top slide is off set at 1/2 deg and with very fine cuts about .005 the rod was machined to a taper with a round nosed tool and finally the top side squared off.
Finally the big end casting can be marked off for cutting thro'. the shaft center line after marking off the 1-11/16" center
this can be done with a slitting saw but as I don't have one the Junior hacksaw with a new blade will be used.
Next job is to bore and face for the main shaft.
George.
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Having changed to a new Mac this is a test pic to see if I can post direct from the new Mac as previously I had to size my pics , mail it to a lap top and then post to the forum, so it seems as tho' I have been successful
George.
Con rod now bolted and ready to bore
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Hopefully I have cracked posting pics on the MAC direct to the forum so I can continue with the Con rods.
No 1.
Before removing the Rod from the chuck I center drilled the eye of the casting for future work.
No2.
As the ends of the bearing block have been faced of leaving it at 5/8", enough to saw off and still have plenty of material to machine the ends to 1/4" thick giving a bolted dimension of 1/2" it's now time to saw in half.
No 3
Bearing blocks cut in half ready for machining.
No 4
Using the 4-jaw the bottom end is roughly set up to run true, the heavy packing pulls the job straight on the 4 - sides and then machined to 1/4" thk.
No 5.
The top half as the bottom with the rod inside the 4- jaw and face to 1/4" thk.
No6.
The 2- halves are bolted together ready to be bored and reamed 9/32" dia for the main shaft.
George.
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Nice job! for those new to machining, Note that the big end split (pic No3) is 'below' the punch so that the 'little end' - 'big end' distance can be maintained....a very important measurement.
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Pics No1& 2,
The big end bush was flattened by rubbing it on a flat file until both sides were smooth, a flat packer was set under the big end and I ran a D.T.I . over a flat side and when level the pop marked center was drilled with a center drill, a 5/32" dia pilot hole was bored thro' and then a .270 drill passed thro' for fina; reaming to 9/32" dia.
No 3 4.
The conrod is mounted on a short piece of 9/32" dia rod, cut a strip of paper to give about 2- turns around the shaft, tighten up the 2- halves of the big end which now allows a fine cut to bring the block to size.
The finished size of the block has to be .312" and as it measured .372" .030" has to be machined from both sides this can be done with a sharp nosed tool. turn it around in the 3- jaw and take .030" from the other side
No5.
With a round nosed tool both side of the block can be machined down each side by another .030" to give a final size of 1/4".
No6.
The Conrod can be turned around and the small end mounted in the 3-jaw.
Having previously marked of and center punched the connecting pin hole it ran very true just as mounted.
Drill thro' and tap 5 B.A. and then drill and ream 5/32" dia by 5/16" deep for the connecting pin.
No 7.
Now can be seen the reason for center drilling the conrod small end as previously described, this allows the rod to be mounted vertical in the machine vice and the drill center
found.
After locking the table loosen the vice and turn the rod round 90 deg and the end will now be central for milling the slot to clear the cross head when made.
Use a 1/4" dia slot drill and with .020" cuts millout the yoke.
This can also be done by drilling a hole verticaly in the flat behind the pin center, cut down with a hack saw and then file to shape with a round file., this was how I did it before having the luxuary of the mill.
No.s 8&9
Rods now completed and fitted to the crank shaft, they are quite tight but will run in when the standards and the cross slides are fitted.
George.
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Continuing with the build the next thing was to drill the Standards feet which was an easy proceedure,
Pic No1 .
the Standards were gripped in the machine vice and all holes drill to suit 7 b.a .clearance.
No 2.
The holes in the base plate were marked off from the feet, drilled and tapped 7ba., the assembly is held by a cast in bar on the underside of the Boxbed, another reason for using this at the start of the build although it will not be used in the end.
No 3.
The first Conrod is fitted after bolting down the standard and all is well, turns over freely with no binding.
No 4 and 5.
Second Conrod fitted and horror of horrors, for the eagle eyed there is a gap in the bottom of the feet which is caused by the big end journal on this Conrod being out of line .
As shaft webs come up to T.D.C. it pushes the standard over to the left, correspondingly when at B.D.C. it pushes the standard over to the right.
After some thought I changed the Conrods over to see if the 9/32" Big end hole had been drilled and reamed out of line but no it did the same thing when turned over.
So nowt else for it but to make a new shaft, but here was the rub, 9/32" dia round bar in the past had been like finding Hens teeth but after a search on the web I found this supplier that I didn't know of ( http://www.glrkennions.co.uk/ (http://www.glrkennions.co.uk/) )
Phoned them on Friday morning at 10-30 am and the items arrived much to my surprise on Saturday mornings post with a full Cat enclosed, now that's what I call service.
Next job a more carefully made new shaft.
George.
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Looks great! Can't wait to see the cylinders and steam chests! Too bad about the crank! I had to replace a big end journal pin in a Stuart triple. I was able to cut out the old pin, then drill out new pin holes in the webs , re-centered the whole unit square, cross pinned and silver soldered. Worked out fine. but this was a one piece cast crank. Any way to save the good parts of the crank?
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Looks great! Can't wait to see the cylinders and steam chests! Too bad about the crank! I had to replace a big end journal pin in a Stuart triple. I was able to cut out the old pin, then drill out new pin holes in the webs , re-centered the whole unit square, cross pinned and silver soldered. Worked out fine. but this was a one piece cast crank. Any way to save the good parts of the crank?
xrad,
The mistake that I made was not to drill the crank webs in pairs, I used to make them without the use of a mill but this is the first time that I have tried to be clever and bored the holes individually using the graduations on the tables.
What I shall now do is bore them in pairs by drilling the 9/32" dia hole and then wind the table forward by .375 to drill the 1/4" hole for the big end journal, before drilling the 1/4" hole I will put a piece of 9/32" dia rod in the first hole before drilling the 1/4" hole to keep every thing in line.
Unfortunatelly I can't save the shaft as the offending crank webs are out of line and I don't like to S/Solder cranks as I find it dificult to clean the job after soldering.
I have never attempted to machine a crankshaft from the solid as I think that the Chinees lathe that I have would complain at cutting the offset material supplied with the D10 casting kit so I stick to my method of fabrication, it's not a big job doing it this way.
Thanks for your comments and interest
George.
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exactly right. in pairs with the crank pin(or other pin) as the alignment tool. Or all four at once. But it's Ok if one crank-rod pin pair centers are a few thou off the other (as long as the piston does not slam on a cylinder cap AND the pins are all square). Have to clamp the webs both vertically and horizontally so they don't wiggle.
Built up cranks are nice too. I built one for a Tiny power 2V10M ( a real nice kit). came out fine.
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MAKING A NEW CRANK SHAFT.
xrad ,
That was how I built all of my crank shafts before purchasing a mill and never had any trouble, so that was my reward for trying to be too clever.
In making the new shaft I cut the 4- pieces of steel for the webs and using some square tool steel as slips set them up in the vice.
Clamped them in pairs and center drilled the hole for the 9/32" main shaft, drilled and reamed and on the same position below the drill inserted a small piece of 9/32" dia rod.
Wound the table forward .375", drilled and reamed a 1/4" dia hole thro' both crank webs while still clamped in the same position which ensured the journals to be parallel
The big end journals are 9/32" dia with the ends turned down to 1/4" dia and shouldered at 5/16" wide which is the dimension inside of the webs,
Glued and pressed them together and slipped them on to the 9/32" dia shaft before they set to ensure that they remained parallel and left overnight to cure.
When cured they can now be glued in position on the main shaft and set at 90deg before curing, after curing for 24 hrs they can be taper pinned and and the center piece of the main shaft at the webs can be cut out, cleaned up and assebled in the engine.
which should cure the problem.
George.
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Nice. Looking good. Should be a square as needed this time.
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NEW CRANK SHAFT
New crank shaft made and fitted, I made sure this time that the webs were taper pinned on the main shft end and the big end , that's 2- pins per web , 8 in total.
I mounted the whole assembly in the lathe and gave it about 10 mins running in with lashings of oil and it now turns over by hand with no sticking points, must say that I am pleased with it now.
I next started on the cylinders by setting the cylinder in the machine vice and held a square to the valve face to ensure that I drilled and tapped verticaly the exhaust ports.
The steam passages have to be drilled at 20 deg and as I don't have a tilting vice a piece of C.L.S. had an angle of 20 deg cut into it as seen in the pic.
A 3/16" dia by 3/32" deep pocket was cut with a slot drill, the casting is then held by hand and drilled 3/32" dia to meet the top steam inlet, turn it around and repeat for the bottom inlet, being very careful not to break into the exhaust port.
Steam chests were next, the square cast hole was cleaned up with a file and the width measured, the equivalent material was taken from both sides to bring it to the drawing dimension.
They were then mounted in the 4- jaw and trued with the surface pointer, the valve rod boss can then be machined true and equal amounts machined from both ends to bring it to size.
Bore right thro' 1/8" for the valve rod , drill and tap the end 1/4 x 32 t.p.i for the stuffing glands, before removing drill thro ' into the far end 3/32" x 1/4" deep, this takes the top end of the valve rod as a guide.
The casting can now be turned around and the domed end machined and then the same amount was turned from the casting to bring it to size.
The castings can now be set up in the milling vice and equall amounts machined from both side to bring them to size.
Next job will be to drill the steam chest mounting holes and attach them to the cylinders.
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The bolt fixing holes are needing to be drilled, so having previously described how I machined them now the holes were required.
This was a simple job done by mounting the covers in the circular jig that I made to machine them and with them mounted in the rotary table the holes were set out at 1.125" p.c.d and then spaced out at 72deg .
They were then clamped to the standard and using the drilled holes, drill thro' to complete.
The same was done with the bottom covers but a hole was drilled and tapped then held down to drill and tap the holes 7 B.A. ensuring that all was square to the cylinder end that takes the steam chest.
The top cover was assembled on the cylinder and standard and it was here that I hit trouble.
I have read on several forums that Stuart castings were not as good as they used to be, I have never encountered any trouble but this time the drilled holes at 1.125" p.c.d. were breaking thro' the edge of the castings.
I have been very lucky in that although the holes are breaking thro' on 3- holes I still am able to get a thread long enough to catch the bolt.
So anybody in the future deciding to have a go at building a D10, before drilling the holes in the covers make sure there is enough meat on the casting, if not redice the p.c.d.
to 1.063" p.c.d. or even 1" p.c.d.
Any suggestions on how to over come this problem would be appreciated.
Some may say that I should have checked the p.c.d. before drilling the covers but it's not a thing that I would consider as the drawing and Stuart castings have been around for a long time, hopefully the new Company will make the castings a bit better.
I can't send the cylinder castings back to Stuart as I didn't buy them there, if I had bought from Stuart they would replace them without hesitation.
George.
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xrad & Mark T.
Thanks for your suggestions which seams to have been lost after the shut down, they are the same thoughts that I had, however another suggestion was to make the covers
4- bolt fixing.
As I had a piece of Mehanite grade cast bar I parted off 2- discs and made new covers, reduced the P.C.D. to 1.062" and drilled the holes on the rotary table.
Plugged the holes with in the cylinders with 7 b.a. steel screws and a spot of Loctite 603 and flushed them of, this gave me fresh metal to bore and tap so I am now quite happy with the result.
George.
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George....
I had similar thoughts of plugging the tapping's by gas puddling brazing, however was concerned with heat distortion
However your fix of reverting to the alternate four bolt pattern on the reduced PCD is an excellent solution to the casting size glitch.
This rectification work is also serves as an example to [us/we] younger players of what can be achieved with a few more years of knowledge & experience under the belt :-))
Derek
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Hi George.
Nice save. If it was my engine it would have been hoyed and you tell me this steamy thingy ma bobs easier than the white mans magic.
It will never catch on you know
best wishes
frazer
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Hi Guy's.
Nice save there George, but it should not have happened in the first place.
Not your fault George, but rather one of legacy.
Stuarts have been through several take-overs in the past years and during the first of these a lot of the original patterns were either lost or destroyed.
The purchasing new owner chose not make new patterns, claiming High cost as a valid reason, but rather chose to use an existing casting (obtained in the take-over) as the replacement pattern.
This was a flawed decision, since the casting did not have sufficient allowance for shrinkage (it already having shrunk)... the net result being a casing with marginal remaining machining allowance.
This has occurred on more than one take-over and the latest castings are now lacking in any allowance at all... in some cases, such as your cylinders, the latest castings are too small in some areas to comply with the drawings.
What is really required is that the latest owners make NEW patterns, with proper shrinkage and machining allowances included... but I doubt that they will.
Sadly, this is a problem with many of the Stuart engines, not just the D10.
I would recommend that anyone building a new Stuart engine, from newish castings, to carefully check all dimensions before cutting metal.
The drawings have never been altered to match the new castings.
So... beware and double check. O0
It is a real shame that such well designed, and very well respected, engines are now being produced using inferior methods... it does the Stuart Name no service and, given the current prices, is not really acceptable. :((
Keep happy.
Best regards.
Sandy. :-))
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Sandy,
You are spot on with the castings so it's a must to plan forward rather than making from the drawings assuming that everything will fit in the end.
Although I must say that some weeks ago I ordered 2- off Gun metal castings for the top valve on the Stuart steam driven boiler feed pump and they were absolutely superbe,
but the stampings for the con rods on this engine were very poor and so much metal had to be taken off to get them correct.
I don't know how old these castings are as they were purchased on e-bay, so age is unknown.
Perhaps the new Gun metal castings are better than the Cast iron ones but it's a bad show if the Cast iron ones are getting smaller.
MACHINING PISTONS.
The piston rods are a simple turning job with each end threaded 7 b.a, I leave the piston end longer than the brass blanks suplplied for the piston which allows the piston blank to be fully screwed on to the rod to allow the blank to be machined on the 5/32" dia rod , all on the one setting.
The piston blank can be screwed onto the rod I with a spot of 603 on the thread, machine to length ( 1/4" ) and then turn down to size of .75" checking as you get near to the bore size, the groove for the "O" ring can now be done using my back post parting tool, before taking out of the chuck take the sharp edges of the groove with a fine file
as these sharpe edges can cut the rings when putting them on.
I allways when making pistons drill 2- holes in the piston crown to take a tool that I made to screw the piston rod down into the cross head, this saves so much time having to take the cylinder off of the standard if a small amount is needed to come off the piston crown or bottom.
To my great releif when the piston rods were screwed into the cross head the whole assembly turns over very smoothly with no tight spots.
Next is the valves and the steam chest covers.
George.
P.S.
Frazer the engines that you build are very Masonic ( it's a secret how they work. )
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Hi George, nice to see some progress. The D10 is a nice engine just a pity you've had to rework due to a casting fault.
At least she is moving forward.
My engines are a complete mystery to me as well . Although Iv gone over to the dark side on my new build (steam)
Cheers
frazer
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What a great solution to the casting issue - lovely job :-))
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What a great solution to the casting issue - lovely job :-))
HI Mark,
Yes I am sure that it was the best solution, if I had brazed in studs and flushed off I would still have had to alter the p.c.d. as altering the 1.125" p.c.d. to 1.063" p.c.d. the holes would just break into the old ones and when tapping 7 b.a. the tap could snag on the steel and break.
As I had plenty of cast Iron on the bar it was easier to make new top caps and space the holes at 1.063" p.c.d. for 4- bolt fixing.
Thanks for your comments, all suggestions are appretiated.
George.
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Hi George - still following along, that's coming along well and at a good rate of knots too. Nice save on those faulty heads :-)) .
I'm looking forwards to you doing the reversing gear (I assume you are going to fit one?) as have decided not to try the Lang gear after your comment and keep to the Stuart layout. The boat is coming together now so it won't be that long before I strip my D10 and rebuild it.
Keep up the good work - Ramon
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Bonjour,
The piston rings of Jan D10 have been manufactured with Teflon for sealing and it works perfectly :
(https://imageshack.com/i/44d10segment1j)
(https://imageshack.com/i/1sd10segment3j)
(https://imageshack.com/i/1sd10segment4j)
(https://imageshack.com/i/44d10segment6j)
Besides this, we have added little screws with o'ring Viton joints on the heads of the cylinders to be able to add oil in after the navigations in order to prevent them from rust, see HERE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utYZJDJPBVg).
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Hello :-)
Raphaël , tes photos ne s'ouvrent pas <*<
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Goodness........DELHUNTY........just go back to the posting from rhavane and click on the word HERE .... Derek
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Hi George - still following along, that's coming along well and at a good rate of knots too. Nice save on those faulty heads :-)) .
I'm looking forwards to you doing the reversing gear (I assume you are going to fit one?) as have decided not to try the Lang gear after your comment and keep to the Stuart layout. The boat is coming together now so it won't be that long before I strip my D10 and rebuild it.
Keep up the good work - Ramon
Hi Ramon,
I will be starting on the Stevenson link reverse gear very shortly, I have been very fortunate in that the castings purchased on e-bay came with a set of Stuart machined eccentrics and sheeves, all the bits and pieces required to make the reverse gear.
What I will be changing is the linkage, I don't like the small rods that have to be glued into place so I will be making the links from flat brass.
I know that on full size engines the links are steel but on a model that can sometimes be laid up they are inclined to rust hence brass.
When the linkage is done and the engine running I will start making the engine driven boiler feed pump, these parts will be made fron stock material as I don't like Stuarts pump casting.
Thanks for looking in.
George.
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Bonjour,
The piston rings of Jan D10 have been manufactured with Teflon for sealing and it works perfectly :
(https://imageshack.com/i/44d10segment1j)
(https://imageshack.com/i/1sd10segment3j)
(https://imageshack.com/i/1sd10segment4j)
(https://imageshack.com/i/44d10segment6j)
Besides this, we have added little screws with o'ring Viton joints on the heads of the cylinders to be able to add oil in after the navigations in order to prevent them from rust, see HERE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utYZJDJPBVg).
Raphael,
I have known that Teflon can be made into piston rings, I have never tried it as I prefer Silicone "O" rings.
As to the oil ponts on the cylinder head I don't think that they are neccessary, I have a D10 in a S.T. CERVIA at 43" long, the engine is 2 years old and has had a lay up over the winter of 5 months and there is no rust what so ever in the cylinders.
If you use a good quality steam oil the oil builds up in the "O" ring groove and stays there when cool which prevents rusting, I do however every now and then turn the prop over by hand which keeps the cylinders oiled, I don't know what happens with your Teflon rings but it's all a matter of choice.
George.
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Bonjour George,
We choose the Teflon option because we rebuilt the D10 to 20,6 mm bore and we had no O ring wide enough to do the job.
About rust, it did not appear at the cylinder/piston level but at the cylinder/side valve level and the rust made little holes which destroyed its efficiency With my solution, I can gorge the cylinders and all the valves with oil as I do not navigate often with my heavy babies.
An this is also why I like my Reeves Warrior MK3 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ-lbevCsX8) , kind of twin of the D10, which can not rust because made of bronze.
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MAKING THE VALVE GEAR
I always start with the valves as they have to be some of the best and aqurate components in the Stuart range of parts.
It only needs cleaning up with files ensuring that the vertical and horizontal guides are set at 1/8" wide to take the valve buckle and the 1/8" dia rod.
The rod needs to be threaded 5B.A.at one end for the fork end and 5B.A. to take the buckle and reduced to 3/32" dia at the top to go into the steam chest.
This is where I deviate from the drawing, make the buckle from a piece of 1/8" thk brass drill it 1/8" dia and drill the top for a 2m x 2mm long grub screw, by doing this it means that the valve rod can be made plain withought the 5B.A. threading to take the buckle.
It's so much easier when timing the engine just to loosen the grub screw and adjust the valve up or down as required, also deviating from the drawing the steam chest is bored 1/8" dia for the rod and straight up into the top of the chest to allow the rod to go up into it and be supported .
Gland nuts are made from 5/16 A.F. Hex brass , threaded 1/4 x 32 t.p.i. and drilled and reamed 1/8" dia.
The fork ends are a simple turning job in the 4- jaw, 6- are required, 2- with the ends tapped 5B.A. for the valve rods and 4- with the ends tapped 7B.A. for the eccentric rods, slots can be drilled and filed or milled out to 1/8" wide.
The quadrants are a filing job as they are stampings and of good quality, with needle files the quadrant slots are filed out to 5/32" wide to take a small roller 5/32" dia x 1/8" long with a reamed hole ( 3/32" ) to take a 7 B.A. plain bolt, 2-off required.
Finally clamped together and drilled to take the fork ends of the eccentric rods.
Next is the eccentrics and the link bars which I hope to complete in the next few days.
George.
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Hi George,
I like the idea of the grub screw on the buckle, as you say it would make the timing adjustment so much easier.
Is this the first time that you've tried it, or have you used it on your previous engines and do they maintain their settings after the engine has been running for some period?
For what it worth, I've attached photos, that you've seen before, of my quadrant milling jig using a 4mm end mill, since my filing was not consistent enough to give a smooth travel.
all the best
Ian
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Ian,
All of the Stuart Vertical slide valve engines that I have built I have used the grub screw fixing, never had any problem with them and they have never lost their settings.
This isn't a new idea as I picked this tip up from a Loco builder friend and this is common practice with a Loco valve gear..
The quadrants are so easy to file into shape and although I have a mill I thought that I would describe the filing method for those who may wish to have a go at building a D10 without milling facilities.
These engines can be made without a mill with careful filing but a lathe is required.
Last year I built a Stuart Launch engine and had to make the quadrants from 1/4" thk bright bar, so a jig like yours had to be made, mine is adjustable to suit varius radus.
The casting and fittings for the Launch engine are very sparse and many parts have to be made from stock bar.
Here is a pic of the jig and the Launch engine.
George.
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I too have used the grub screw method on both my slide valve engines with nearly six years running and no problems also nice work George, do you have plans to put the engine to use?
Cheers
John
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Thanks George,
I like your adjustable quadrant milling jig.
I wish I'd known about the "grub screw" mod when I was building my D10, apart from the ease of adjustment, it makes the valve construction that little bit easier.
Ian.
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I too have used the grub screw method on both my slide valve engines with nearly six years running and no problems also nice work George, do you have plans to put the engine to use?
Cheers
John
John ,
At present I have no plans to put the engine in a boat.
I have a 3/8" - 1ft model of Cervia which has a D10 in it which I made about 2- years ago, my problem is that I don't have enough space, my workshop is 9ft x 9ft and is not ideal for boat building that's why I stick to butchering metal and I don't like wood shavings and dust in the W/Shop.
The launch engine is in a box on the shelf until I decide what to do with it, probably sell it, it needs a big boiler , the engine at 1" bore x 7/8' stroke and each piston with 2- cast iron rings needs more steam than my test boiler can produce, so my delema will be compounded when I finish the D10, what to do with them !!!
George.
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MAKING THE ECCENTRICS
These are made from a piece of 5/8" dia free cutting steel, ENIA I think, as I only had a small piece of bar I had to be caerefull holding it to get 2- eccentrics from it.
TYhe eccentrics are 3/32" of set and to get this I use a piece of 3/32" strip under one jaw of the 3- jaw chuck.
Drill and ream a hole 9/32" dia and then machine the boss on the outside, I used a parting tool to cut down nearly to the 9/32" bore but didn't part it of.
Using the parting tool I machined another eccentric with the bar in the same position and parted off as before but not going fully thro'.
The 3/32" strip was taken out of the chuck and then the grooves can be cut with a thinner parting tool that I have on the same post, this groove ids for a small stud that goes into the bottom of the eccentric sheeve to prevent it floating side ways.
The eccentrics can now be separated with a hack saw and the faced off.
When you buy a set of reverse gear you get an eccentric that doesn't have the boss on it and it has a 1/16" hole in to match a hole in the one with the boss thro' which a 1/6" dia pin is glued in place in the eccentric with the boss.
I mounted the eccentric with the boss first on a 9/32" piece of shaft material, then I put the one without the boss on top and clamped it with a parallel clamp, with the 2- pieces mounted like this ensures that when the 1/16" dia hole is drilled thro' every thing works out true and leaves the eccentrics when finally mounte at 120 deg to one and other.
Allt he little rods were then put in place and to my relief every thing lined up.
Next job is the drag links, the weigh shaft and brackets, I hope that you can follow my blethers.
George.
George.
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George
I love following your progress building the D10, but I am rather surprised at how you get the 3/32 throw on the eccentrics. If you have a copy of Tubal Cain's "Model Engineers Manual" and you turn to section 13, you will find a paragraph "Eccentric turning in a 3 jaw chuck". You will see that the packing needed is much more than 3/32", actually .134". with 3/32 packing you will only get about 1/16" eccentricity.
I've attached the relevant portion. Note that D in the formula is the diameter gripped in the chuck jaws, not necessarily the sieve diameter as he says.
Malcolm
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Hi Malcolm,
I have never been aware of this formula and of all the Stuart vertical engines that I have built I have used the method that I have described with no adverse problems.
I have just come from the workshop and after measuring the cam travel it is .164 giving a .082" lift which is only .010" short of the design figure of .093" and bearing in mind that this is a model engine and the castings are quite poor it has never effected the engine performances that I have noticed and I have no cause to doubt Tubal Cain's statement
If I may ask are the calcs for full size practice or does it apply to models as well ?
Getting back to Stuarts drawing of how to measure for the 1/16" drive pin to link the 2- sheaves there is a mistake in the drawing.
It shows the pin hole at 60 deg and at 1/4" rad from the center of the .625" dia sheave.
If it has to be drilled at this dimension if you subtract 1/4" from 5/16" rad of the sheave it only leaves 1/16" and then the rad of the pin at 1/32" leaves 1/32" to the outside edge of the 5/8" dia sheave and the drill breaks into the groove for the guide pin.
I would think that the rad would need to be max 7/32" which wouldn't matter as long as the angle was 60 deg.
Here is a copy of the drawing , what do you think, or have I got it wrong ?
Thanks for your comments.
George.
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MAKING THE REVERSE GEAR BRACKETS.
Today I made and fitted the steam chest covers which have to be done in order to fit the reverse bracketry.
There are 2- brackets to hold the weigh shaft and they have to be of opposite hands, they were set up and squared inthe lathe and then with a newly sharpened and honed tool a very light cut was taken off of the face of the brackets, just enough to clean the faces up.
On this lathe setting the 3/16" dia holes were drilled and reamed.
The same process with the 2- brackets that connect to the quadrants and the operating lever was done as well.
When it was all set up instu the 3/16" dia weigh shaft turned quite freely so the next step is to link every thing up and see if all is well.
Must say that Malcolm gave me a jolt with his post but then I thought , this is how I have always made the eccentrics and the engines have worked, I may as a test piece make the eccentrics using a pice of .138" thk packer that I have found described in Andrew Smiths book ( BUILDING A VERTICAL SSTEAM ENGINE )
George.
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What a grand job you are doing George, thoroughly enjoyed reading through.....
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What a grand job you are doing George, thoroughly enjoyed reading through.....
Nick,
Thanks for looking in, drag links arein the pickle jar so when they are cleaned I will soon be in a position to try the engine out on air.
George
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Malcolm,
Your post confirming that the Calcs were for model engines seams to have been lost along with a reply I posted regarding the eccentric lift.
I had apiece of 5/8" dia bar which I chucked up in the 3- jaw and put a 1/8" packer made from gauge plate under 1- jaw and machined the eccentric.
I measured the size from top and bottom of the eccentric and it showed .220" so half of that is .115" which is .020" greater than the .093" called for in Stuarts drawing
So at present I shall leave the eccentrics as they are with the lift that they have as I know that the engine will work.
If I had made a packer of .138" I would be afraid of the valve hitting the top or bottom of the steam chest inside
In the near future I will be machining up a set of Stuart SCORE casting that I bought on e-bay and at that time I shall do a little research into the eccentric lifts and try a packer of .138" and see what happens.
You mentioned in the missing post as I recall, that you have made up spread sheets of the eccentric lifts but they would not post on the forum, if you are able to send them via e-mail I would be only to pleased to send you my e-mail via P.M.
On consultation with some model engineer friends it would appear that when Tubal Cain ( TOM ) published these calcs it caused quite a furor'y in the model community,
some agreeing and some not which rumbled on for months with no final agreement or conclusion which I hope that this corespondance does't start it all again with others, as it is not my intention to do so.
George.
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George
Very happy to send the spread sheet. It will be a few days as I am away at the moment.
I hadn't realised that there had been any controversy about this subject. I have to admit that I haven't checked my valve travel for any of the engines I have made using this method, but at least they all work very well. I guess I had better do a few measurements! Will let you know the results.
Regards Malcolm
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George
Very happy to send the spread sheet. It will be a few days as I am away at the moment.
I hadn't realised that there had been any controversy about this subject. I have to admit that I haven't checked my valve travel for any of the engines I have made using this method, but at least they all work very well. I guess I had better do a few measurements! Will let you know the results.
Regards Malcolm
Malcolm,
Thanks just when you are ready, my mail is down at present but should be back up soon, problems at Virgin.
MAKING and FITTING DRAG LINKS.
The drag liks were cut from a piece of brass angle which I cut into 1/4" thk strips 4 off.The centers were marked off and drill 5/32" dia and clmped in pairs before drilling.
Small bosses were made from a piece of 3/16" brass rod turned down at the ends 5/32" dia to fit the links holes, these need to be drilled and tapped 7ba after S/soldering as the heat can distort the threads .
Only 2- are tapped 7 ba the other 2- to have 3/32" dia holes bored.
I used 3/16" brass rod bought in the model shop, that stuff that is made in Chicago so be very careful when tapping as it's very soft and clogs the tap, the very first hole that I started to tap the tap broke so a new link had to be made.
After soldering it was just a filing job to bring the width of the linkds down to 3/16" or there abouts, a good polish and then the fitting.
All went well and it just remains to fit grub screws into the movement levers and the reverse lever.
George.
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FINNISHING THE LINKAGE AND TIMING THE ENGINE.
Having all of the bits and pieces completed the weigh shaft and the levers had to be pinned , on the shaft I used 3/32" taper pins and on the operating lever 1/16" roll pin.
When everything was operating smoothly the steam chest covers which are 1/8" thk had to be removed and 1/8" packers made in order that the assembly could be put together and I was able to view the position of the valve to time the engine.
Start by setting the quadrant in the mid position and the valve should cover all the ports , move it back until it's in line with the valve spindle and turn the engine over, the valve should move equally over the ports.
I like to start with the bent rod and when the engine is turned over which way you want it to run the valve should just be showing a crack with the crank just over T.D.C.
Do the same at the other end making sure that you are turning the engine in the same direction.
When this is done the valves should just be openning at T.D.C. and B.T.C. in the direction you want the engine to run, if not you have to move the valve a touch in the direction needed to get the valves openning as required.
You will never get them perfect but as near as posible, this is the time that using a grub screw in the valve buckle prooves it's worth.
Now start with the straight rod, use tha same proceedure and if the valves are not openning as described you will need to lengthen or shorten as required.
Once I was happy with the settings I rebuild the the steam chest taking out the packers and assemble the rods and levers, as there was a set of steam and exhaust pipes with the kit I couldn't resist the urge to se if the engine would fire on the compressor.
A first time hit and away it went both forward and reverse, this is what gives me the greatest pleasure in engine building, I tried to take a pic hoping that the tap wrench that was acting as a flywheel would show as a blurr but no luck, my camera must have quite a shutter speed.
I now can get on with the drive for the engine driven pump.
George.
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It looks great, are you going to paint it?
Regards,
Gerald.
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It looks great, are you going to paint it?
Regards,
Gerald.
Yes Gerald,
OnceI have the pump and drive made it will all be stripped down and painted.
George
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George
Very happy to send the spread sheet. It will be a few days as I am away at the moment.
I hadn't realised that there had been any controversy about this subject. I have to admit that I haven't checked my valve travel for any of the engines I have made using this method, but at least they all work very well. I guess I had better do a few measurements! Will let you know the results.
Regards Malcolm
Malcolm,
Some further observations as I progres with the build.
I just can't agree with the figures that Tubalcain has published, as I have said the 3/32" packer that I use leaves me .010" short in the travel of the valve over the steam inlets top and bottom.
If I had to use a packer of .136" that would give a travel .272" + the length of the valve at 1/2" is .772", the diminsion on the inside of the steam chest is .75" L x .563 W which means that the valve would hit the top and bottom of the steam chest and stop the engine from rotating.
Also if you have the book by Andrew Smith ( BUILDING A VERTICAL STEAM ENGINE ) on page 49 he recommends a packer of .138" for the eccentric which coincides with Tubalcains formula which I think is also wrong.
On taking another measurement on the finished reverse gear I find that I am still a little short but now by only .004".
I can't prove it but I am sure if I had used Tubalcain's formula the travel would be such that the valve would travel over the steanm inlet and uncover the exhaust port.
The engine runs very well in both directions on air so I still have to run it on staeam at a later date but I have no doubt that there will be any difference.
I shall stick to my way of making a packeras I know it works.
Thanks for your input.
George.
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BOILER FEED PUMP DRIVE.
Before starting on the boiler feed pump drive an Ali base plate had to be made to replace the box bed casting.
The Ali plate was cut from a 1/16" sheet and the holes in the plate had to be made to clear the engine big ends and the eccentrics.
The plate was mounted on the milling table with a piece of 1/4" ply below and all held down with clamps.
When completed I bought a length of 10mm Ali square from B&Q which was to be what carried the engine, the engine studs are tapped 7 b.a. into the Ali bar and up thro' the plate to allow the engine to be bolted down the the bed plate.
The plate was left oversize as I had not at this time decided on the position of the bearing blocks, the plate would be cut to size later.
I now had to make the bearing blocks and to machine and bore the gunmetal castings for the bearings.
The bearings are a simple drilling and milling the bases to size job before boring the fixing holes.
I had hoped to make the bearing blocks from a piece of Duralamin but I couldn't get the dimensions of the blocks that I wanted so they were made from a lenght of B.M.S 8" long x 1' x 1/2" , 2- pieces were sawn off and milled to size as a pair at 1.375" long.
Mark of the centers in the blocks and set up in the 4- jaw for turning the outsides to 7/8" dia down to leave the bases 1/4" thk.
When completed they were set up in the vice and milled down as a pair so that when the bearings were bolted down the centres of the Worm and wheel matched.
The last maching job was to mill a relief on the bases, I do this in case I have to alter the height of the block base to get the worm and wheel meshing, it's easier to take a little of the base pads than if the reliefe wasn't there.
Finally all holes were drilled and the bearings, bearing blocks and the cross shaft were fitted and the shaft turns over by hand.
Next job is the pump drive disc and the water pump to be made.
George.
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Today I started out to make the worm shaft bracket and bearing from a piece of Duralamin from an old bike crank, very high grade stuff.
I thought that I would have a nice pleasant afternoon using the rotary table and the milling machine.
All went well and I made the bearing from a piece of gunmetal scrap and pressed the bearing into the bracket.
Before final finishing and polishing I needed to bring the center of the bearing to 1/2" to the base which is the height of the worm shaft, here's where it gets nasry.
To machine the base plate to bring the cemnter to 1/2" would have ment that I had to machine all of the base plate off, reason, I had measured wrongly at the start when setting up.
Another piece of the build now at the bottom of the river running at the bottom of my street, I do jest as I would not polute the river. !!!!
So I will have another go tomorrow, it's a good thing that the weather is so bad at present which allows more Shop time.
George.
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Oh bad luck George !!
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Oh bad luck George !!
No sweat Boneash it's all a learning curve, what's that old saying, HE WHO HAS NEVER MADE ANY MISTAKES HAS NEVER MADE ANYTHING !!!!!
Thanks for looking in and your commiserations. .
George.
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WORM SHAFT SUPPORT BEARING .
A more successful afternoon, I made the support bracket from a piece of Ali using the same method of machining as the last one but made sure that the measuremnts were correct.
With a thicker base plate it allowed me to adjust the center size to mach the shaft, all in all a most pleasing afternoon, the worm shaft is 3/16" dia and while making the main shaft of 9/32" dia the end of the shaft is drilled 3/16" dia x 7/16" deep to take the worm shaft, it's glued in with Loctite 603 and the worm is fixed to the shaft with a 3/32" dia roll pin.
Whilest having to make the new bracket I took the opportunity to make the base a little wider, I think it looks better and a much stronger job
I shall now start on the drive for the pump, the pump in the pics is a Stuart turner item machined from a casting, I don't particularly like the design of the pump so I shall probably make one to my own design from stock material.
George.
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Well done George, a most suitable addition well executed.
So now another eccentric and con rod to produce !
A detail I realise I have noticed is that the wheel of the the worm and wheel appears to be straight cut and not dished to the radius of the worm for greater surface contact. Is this deliberate or due to the complexity to power transfer requirement not being a necessary requirement.??
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George.....I have been following this engine build on a daily basis ...thankyou...but a few questions......
1. We understand the boiler feed pump displacement simply comes back to bore x stroke x speed....
2. is the worm wheel to worm reduction ratio approx. 40:1?
3. is there any deliberate design in having the worm wheel of considerable width/thickness?
Derek
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Well done George, a most suitable addition well executed.
So now another eccentric and con rod to produce !
A detail I realise I have noticed is that the wheel of the the worm and wheel appears to be straight cut and not dished to the radius of the worm for greater surface contact. Is this deliberate or due to the complexity to power transfer requirement not being a necessary requirement.??
Boneash,
I have to agree with you on the worm and wheel which I don't like.
However as far as I am aware that from the time Stuart started making the reverse gear it has been the same worm and wheel which I think is ugly with the wheel being too big, this is what you get when buying the castings from Stuart.
This was a set of castings that I bought off e-bay along with a set of launch engine castings both of which were bought from the same seller.
When doing reverse gear on D10's and 10V's I purchese the worm and wheel from H.P.C. gears which has the wheel radiused to suit the worm and it's advisable to purchase them in pairs to match, but being a bit costly I used the worm and wheel from the castings that I bought.
The worm is a 10 start and the wheel is 30 T giving 3/1 reductionfrom the engine.
Over time I have discovered tha 4/1 reduction and a slightly longer stroke is about right for these engines.
I enclose a pic of my Flashsteam engine which has the H.P.C. gears and this has a reduction of 6/1 from engine shaft with a 4- start worm, the engine does 15,000 r.p.m. free on the bench so the pumps are working at 2500 strokes/min. with no sign of war and a D10 that I built last year for my S.T.CERVIA again 4/1 reduction using h.p.c. gears.
Derek I hope this answers your question as well.
George.
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George.....I have been following this engine build on a daily basis ...thankyou...but a few questions......
1. We understand the boiler feed pump displacement simply comes back to bore x stroke x speed....
2. is the worm wheel to worm reduction ratio approx. 40:1?
3. is there any deliberate design in having the worm wheel of considerable width/thickness?
Derek
Derek,
Don't know where you get the 40/1 ratio from but that would be far to much of a reduction to feed a boiler round about 4/1 is about correct.
George.
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Many thanks George for your explanation, information and beautiful examples of your work.
good luck with the next sections and I and others look forward to seeing them
Rod
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Apologies George...that was a typo......I counted what I thought were 10 teeth [from 12.00 to 9.00 [a quadrant] of the worm wheel......and saw the 10 start worm.....hence 4:1.......not as typed 40:1 .......
Image No 9 - Bearing Blocks clearly shows the components as an easily counted set.......Derek
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Apologies George...that was a typo......I counted what I thought were 10 teeth [from 12.00 to 9.00 [a quadrant] of the worm wheel......and saw the 10 start worm.....hence 4:1.......not as typed 40:1 .......
Image No 9 - Bearing Blocks clearly shows the components as an easily counted set.......Derek
Derek,In my post No 116 I state that the worm is a 10 start and the wheel has 30 T giving a reduction of 3/1 so I am afraid you have miss counted.
I don't know where Stuart get their gears from as I have hunted the web abd find nobody that does a 10 start worm.
H.P.C. hoever do 4-3-2 and single start worms so on all my engines ,except the flashsteam engine, I use 4 start worms and 16 T wheels to give 4/1 reduction.
H.P.C. gears are all matched to whatever combination you buy but you can't mix them, the are so much smaller than the monsters Stuart use and in my opinion much neater.
I may even consider thining the wheel down.
George.
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Many thanks George for your explanation, information and beautiful examples of your work.
good luck with the next sections and I and others look forward to seeing them
Rod
Thanks Rod,
Tomorrow I have a whole day to myself, Mrs T is off to a ladies Conference , so I shall have a go at the drive disc on the cross shaft and maybe get the connecting rod casting supplied machined and fitted.
George.
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PUMP CON ROD AND DRIVE.
No1
Started of by chucking up a piece of 3/4" dia M/S bar and machined the boss 7/16" dia x 3/8" long and bored and reamed the hole to take the 1/4" dia icross drive shaft.
With a parting tool part of 1/2" long from the face of the machined disc.
No 2.
Put a piece of 3/16" thk material in one of the jaws in the 3- jaw chuck to off set the 7/16" dia boss and turn down to leave a 1/8" thk disc and the drive pin to .281" - .0005" dia.
While in this set up drill and tap the drive pin 6 ba x 3/8" deep, at this point machine the drive pin to 11/32" long.
Clean up all sharp edges and remove from chuck.
No 3
All the components of the Pump drive.
No4.
Cross shaft and pump drive fitted.
Cross shaft was glued into the 1/4" dia reamed hole in drive disc with Loctite 603 and cross pined with a 1/6" dia roll pin.
No 5.
Con rod center of 9/32" dia drive pin was marked off and set up in the 4- jaw to center and drill the drive pin hole.
Hole was drilled and reamed 9/32" dia and the Con rod had .032" to be taken off of both side to bring it to 5/16" thk., did one side, turned it around in the 4- jaw and machine the .032" required.
This was a very poor gun metal casting and the drill was inclined to wander a little when boring so drill it in steps before final ream.
No6 & 7.
The Cross shaft and pump con rod fitted, the rod end still has to be machined flat to 1/8" to fit into pump ram, so next step is to make the pump, still not sure whether to use the Stuart pump or make one of my own.
George.
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Hi George, just caught up with this - very nice work indeed :-)) there will be some flattery appearing in a few weeks I can tell you ;)
Not wanting to teach granny here but with regards to the gears the ones you are using on the D10, are these not helical gears as opposed to a worm and wheel as per the HPC variety you have. Hence the straight cut wheel as pointed out as opposed to a true worm wheel which is usually concave to follow the radius of the worm.
HPC do helical gears so you may be able to find the same combination there.
Thanks for your recent mail, Keep up the good work - I'm away to Peterborough tomorrow so I'll be in touch on Monday.
Regards - Ramon
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Hi George, just caught up with this - very nice work indeed :-)) there will be some flattery appearing in a few weeks I can tell you ;)
Not wanting to teach granny here but with regards to the gears the ones you are using on the D10, are these not helical gears as opposed to a worm and wheel as per the HPC variety you have. Hence the straight cut wheel as pointed out as opposed to a true worm wheel which is usually concave to follow the radius of the worm.
HPC do helical gears so you may be able to find the same combination there.
Thanks for your recent mail, Keep up the good work - I'm away to Peterborough tomorrow so I'll be in touch on Monday.
Regards - Ramon
Ramon,
You are quite correct, the gears are Cross shaft Helical, not worm and wheel.
On contacgt with Stuarts in the past they refered to them as worm and wheel so I continued with this description.
I don't like the Helical gears as they are very over size and in my opinion just don't look correct for this application but as I had already bought the castings these were with the set.
If I was building from scratch I would purchase the worm and wheel set at 32 D.P. from H.P.C. which I have used on various occasions on other Stuart engines and on my flashsteamer and these from H.P.C. give very accurate centres between worm and wheel, in the Stuart drawing you have to scratch about to find what the centers are .
I had overlooked that H.P.C. did the Helical gears to give 3/1 reduction but the wheel at 30t is 1.061 " dia which is bigger than the Stuart issue and would look even worse.
The nearest that can be found is a 4 start worm and a 16t wheel to give 4/1 which is close enough to Stuarts recommendation of 3/1 and if I wanted to pass more water I would either increase the pump stroke fro 5/16" tp 3/8" or increase the dia of the pump ram from 1/4" dia to 5/16" dia. possibly do both and fit a bypass valve.
The last D10 that I built and is now installed in a 42" long St CERVIA x 32 lb weight has the 32 D.P. worm and wheel at 4/1 which is adequate to feed the D10.
Look forward to hearing from you and thanks for keeping me in line.
George.
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ENGINE DRIVEN FEED PUMP
I decided to make the pump to my own design, I don't like the Stuart pump as it relies on 2- stud fitting at the base of one of the standards and the ram has to be fitted with an "O" ring.
I don't know how one is suposed to fit the "O" ring as the ram is 1/4" dia and the "O" ring has an internal bore of 1/8", I have found it impossible to fit the ring without breaking it which would mean having to fit it broken or wrap around some graphite packing.
My own method is to counter bore the end of the pump body to take a 1/4" I/D Silicone "O" ring and make a bearing to hold it in place, the bearing will have a small oil hole before the "O" ring to take a very occasional drop of oil and the bearing will be held in place by a small 8 b.a. brass round head screw.
I have never liked Stuarts method of connecting the eccentric arm to the pump ram, the drawing shows the 1/4" dia ram having a 1/8" slot milled to take the connecting pin, this only leaves 1/16" as side so I made a M/S/ yoke from a 5/16" square M/S/ bar drilled and tapped the end 5 b.a. and milled a 1/8" slot in it and threaded the end of the pump ram 5 b.a. x 3/16" long which I think is better.
I found it quite difficult to hold in position the pump body and bracket to S/Solder but managed it in the end.
I will be using 3/16" dia Nitrile balls in the valve box so that's the next step and once completed I will be filling the joints with a Chemical Metal filler, clean it all up and paint before fitting to the side of the base plate.
Almost there.
George.
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PUMP AND GEAR DRIVE COMPLETE
Well nearly complete, I made a mistake in boring the valve box, I should have drilled up to the hole from the pump ram on the suction side leaving a bridge to stop the ball from rising on the forward stroke of the ram so I had to modify the design of which I am not particularly pleased with so I will make another pump.
The pump not to my liking has the parts shown, to save the pump and get it to work I had to drill and tap 1/4 x 32 t.p.i. straight thro" the valve box and make the parts to hold the Nitrile balls in position.
The reason that I don't like it is that in my opinion it looks out of place being so high and there are too many parts in the assembly.
No 1
The suction valve is fitted to the bottom of the valve box to hold the Nitrile ball, the next fitting goes straight down to hold the ball at .025" clearance.
This fitting also takes the delivery ball in place and the top part screws down to hold the delivery ball at .025" clearance,
Pics
No 2-3-4-5.
Are just of the finished assembly , the 30T wheel is pinned with 2- 6 b.a. socket grub screws as is the thrust collar at the ram drive end to stop the shaft floating when the engine is reversed.
When I have made the new pump the engine will be stripped down and painted so I hope that when it all goes back together it's a smooth as it is now.
George..
The whole assembly of the engine and pump drive turn over very smoothly at 20 p.s.i. on air as it's still very new and will loosen of when put to work on steam.
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Hi George it's a real credit to you that the engine runs smoothly on 2o psi and no doubt will run superbly when its run in ,did notice a gap in one of the rear eccentrics and wondering is this just loose or will it be shimmed?
Cheers
John
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My mistake George went back and looked at the other pics and see the sheaves are one piece casting and as I don't make them that way sorry jumped the gun so beautiful work George
Cheers
John
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Hi George - Congratulations on producing a very nice running engine and pump - and in such a short time too :-))
The pump may as you say be a little tall but overall the 'whole' looks very compact and neat - it won't be long now before I begin copying it :-) .
I haven't used nitrile balls before but have used O rings as seats - how do the balls stand up in use?
Be in touch soon - sailing all day yesterday which left us totally wiped out last night - didn't even watch the box!
Lovely work George
Regards - Ramon
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My mistake George went back and looked at the other pics and see the sheaves are one piece casting and as I don't make them that way sorry jumped the gun so beautiful work George
Cheers
John
Hi John,
No problem, I do need somebody to keep me right as I can fly off on a tangent sometimes.
The reverse gear was a Stuart machined set that came with the e-bay castings and the sheave is only split in one side and what has happened is that the pinch bolt has come loose and the gap openned.
When I strip the engine down for painting and on final assembly I put a small dap of thread lock on all the nuts, the sheave bolts should have a thin lock nut on but it's an absolute devel to get in to tighten the niuts so the Loctite is used..
Thanks for your comments
George.
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Hi George - Congratulations on producing a very nice running engine and pump - and in such a short time too :-))
The pump may as you say be a little tall but overall the 'whole' looks very compact and neat - it won't be long now before I begin copying it :-) .
I haven't used nitrile balls before but have used O rings as seats - how do the balls stand up in use?
Be in touch soon - sailing all day yesterday which left us totally wiped out last night - didn't even watch the box!
Lovely work George
Regards - Ramon
Ramon ,
I started using Nitrile balls on the recommendation of a Loco builder friend who uses them on pumps and Clack valves, you have to be careful with Clacks that the hole from the valve into the boiler is smaller than the ball, as the boiler cools and vacuum occurs it can suck the ball into the boiler never to return.
On pumps they work very well , if the pump has a negative head of water you have to push some water thro' with a syringe to wet the balls , a positive head is best but not always practical.
I have had Nitrile balls in a pump installed in a steam tug over the last 4 years with no problem, I have also made several pumps for friends and never had any complaint that the balls are not working but as to there longevity I can't say.
I do know of another member on the forum that uses an "O" ring below a steel ball and it works as well, one day I am going to experiment with an "O" ring under a steel ball in a safety valve to see how that works.
I have lost count of how many safety valves that I have made but can only remember one that didn't weap a little, all others needed a clip with a spanner to stop the weeping.
I have tried pop valves as well but just can't get them to work even with K.N.Harris's recommendation to give them a biff with a hammer to seat them remembering to replace the hit ball with a new one
My friend Frazer took a pack of ten ball bearings to a precision engineering firm that measured them and out of the ten only one was truely spherical, so maybe it's the balls.
New pump almost complete just a couple of screw down nuts to make and the I will post my new creation.
Thanks for you comments.
George.
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FINISHED ENGINE AND BOILER FEED PUMP.
As I said that I wasn't pleased with the pump that I had made as it appeared too tall and had too many parts so I have made this othedr to a more simpler design.
All the pumps that I make are more or less derived from K.N.Harris's book on boiler building but I now use Nitrile hard rubber balls.
The Nitrile unlike Steel balls require a coned landing as against the sharp edges of the steel ball.
I make the landings using a 3/16" cemtre drill by going down until I feel the tool touch the metal, start up the lathe and counter bore for for .025" and leave the lathe spinning to give the surface a slight polish.
I make all pump barrel and the valve box and after boring to suit 3/16" balls I tap about 6 threads with a first taper 1/4 x 32 tap on both ends of the valve box, this gives a good start after soldering as the intense heat can burn a full thread, after all of the silver soldering has been done go back in and tap a full thread in the metal.
No 1.
The ram barrel and valve box ready to solder.
No 2
After soldering and ready to put in the pickle jar
While soldering on the mounting bracket take a piece of 1/4" dia bar and coat it wil the smoke from a candel or any other thing that gives heavy smoke when burning.
Put the 1/4" bar into the reamed ram hole and clamp on the bracket, if you don't do this the hole when hot enough to solder will turn oval whith the slightest of pressure.
Putting the bar inside while soldering prevents this and the smoked rod will come back out whout sticking.
No3.
All the components of the pump ready to assemble.
No 4
Pump assembled and bolted to the engine base plate.
Stuart recommends that their pump is mounted on the 2- holes at the base of the main casting, this I don't like as I have experienced the pump under working conditions to move and if not noticed can be a bit of a disaster, hence the longer bolts into the side of the base plate.
No5 & 6.
Pump bolted in position with a 1/4 x 32 Connection at the delivery end to take 5/32" dia copper pipe and a push on connector on the suction side to take the Silicone tube the the Aero guys use for fuel.
The only thing that I have not shown is the 10 b.a. round head screw in position to hold in the rear bearing of the pump, the tapped hole can just be seen in the side of the barrel, the hole abovr is a small counter sunk oil hole.
So there we have it , engine completed and I must say it's one of the best runners that I have made, I put this down to a mod that I made to my Chinees lathe, some time ago I bought a British made " Pratt-Burnered " chuck and I made the back plate that the regester of the chuck fits too a slack fit, about .005 " undersize.
This allows me to adjust the chuck with a D.T.I. to run true on a dedicated jaw, in my case No 2 jaw, the chuck has a 3- bolt Hex head bolt fixing from the front and if ever I have a tool dig in I can very simoly re-adjust the chuck, simple but effective and worth the trouble.
Next job isn't one of my favourites, stripping down for painting so I only hope that it goes together and runs as well so I shall post my last pics when painted.
I do hope that somebody will read this thread and have a go at at D10.
George.
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Count me as number one George. Lovely job, am looking forward to building one. On your smoke device, visit a gun shop and buy an Acetylene sight blacking torch. Or you can make one easy enough. It's just a cylinder with screw on top with a small nozzle in the top. Add a small piece of calcium carbide, spit on it and light the gas as it comes out. It deposits pure carbon black on steel. We used to be able to get carbide from the chemist or bike shop. However if you have an oxy-acetylene torch use that with no oxygen.
Looking forward to seeing the engine painted and a vid of it running on steam.
Jerry.
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Count me as number one George. Lovely job, am looking forward to building one. On your smoke device, visit a gun shop and buy an Acetylene sight blacking torch. Or you can make one easy enough. It's just a cylinder with screw on top with a small nozzle in the top. Add a small piece of calcium carbide, spit on it and light the gas as it comes out. It deposits pure carbon black on steel. We used to be able to get carbide from the chemist or bike shop. However if you have an oxy-acetylene torch use that with no oxygen.
Looking forward to seeing the engine painted and a vid of it running on steam.
Jerry.
Jerry,
Your far too young to know about Carbide cycle lamps, myself at 76 years of age and have been a cyclist since I was 7 doesn't remember carbide lamps, I used to hear stories from my Dad that they used to "P" on the carbide to get the lamp lit.
There were 2- off them in my house A "Lucas King of the road" that had a great big reflector and a bracket to hang on a fitting at the front forks and when the spring in the bracket went a sponge rubber ball was squeezed in to keep it pointing down the road, can't remember twhat the other one was.
I shall stick to the simple method of smoke from a candle, seams like an expensive method for possibly a one off proceedure, if I was making them comercialy I woul;d consider it.
How is the progress on your 2- engines ? havn't heard from you for a while, hope that you are well and surviving this horrible weather.
George.
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Ho ho George. We never used the lamps, only the carbide. Put a piece in a corona bottle with the top done up, throw in canal and after it exploded, net the dead fish. Or get a tin can with small hole in the base, upend can on fizzing carbide, light smoke and boom can rises 200 feet in the air and ears ring for hours.
One engine finished and run in on lathe, other awaiting final assembly and running in. Compressor still u/s. Have been on 10 day shake down cruise on our narrowboat. A few more things to modify/fix. The leisure battery system not up to par but smart TV superb when Mary gets 3 or 4G on her iPhone. Next job is fit a 2.8kW generator and an alternator to battery charger and we're ready for anything.
Jerry.
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Ho ho George. We never used the lamps, only the carbide. Put a piece in a corona bottle with the top done up, throw in canal and after it exploded, net the dead fish. Or get a tin can with small hole in the base, upend can on fizzing carbide, light smoke and boom can rises 200 feet in the air and ears ring for hours.
Jerry,
You must have a bit of a hooly in your younger days, if you did these things today you would have the "POLIS" and the Bomb squad at your door with the Big "Red Key" to gain entry.
Must it would have been great fun as long as you didn't get caught, were you a good runner ?
We don't have a lot of canals up here although the Forth and Clyde runs thro' the town but I sure wouldn't like to eat any fish that came out of it.
George.
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George - Jerry.
Your mention of carbide strikes a chord.
I remember having to (nervously) crawl inside a boiler in the Lowestoft Docks Tug 'Ness Point' as a young fifteen year old armed with a yard made acetylene lamp for illumination. My task was to hold the (leaky) mud hole door back up which had had a lead strip held to it with grease. The door was bolted up with me inside the boiler to squeeze the lead to see where the erosion was for building up by weld. Once inside though I could see light coming in from above and crawled around the tubes to exit from the dome flange. I crept back down and stood behind Jack who I was apprentice too as he undid the door and gently brought it through. 'Okay' he yelled into the hole 'you can come out now' - no answer - another yell still no answer then I tapped him on the shoulder %%
The 'Corona' bottle brought back memories too for we used to do just that in the river though we were never lucky to get any dead fish. Just how dangerous that was as a prank though was brought home many years later when I met a guy through model boating who had permanently damaged an eye by a glass shard from an an exploding Corona bottle. Regrettably much later in life he began to lose the sight of his good eye. Asked about his other eye he commented that he had lost the sight of it as a young lad. Imagine his relief when it was discovered the scar tissue could be removed and behind was a perfectly good eye! Sadly Peter is no longer with us but he was a great guy, absolutely full of humour and a great model boat maker to boot - I so wish he was still around.
Thanks for the input on the Nitrile balls George - I'll look into trying some. Good point on not having a square seat.
Regards - Ramon
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ENGINE REBUILT AND PAINTED.
The strip down and rebuild went without any trouble, the steam and exhaust pipes were part of the original kit and were made by Stuart Turner.
After painting with 3- coats of hard enamel I made the cylinder lagging strips from .015" Ali sheet held on with 8 ba round head screws, I have some .015" brass sheet but I just don't like brass for lagging, I think that's because I have never seen any full size engines with brass lagging, only Ali, Black or timber..
I can't say much more as all went well and I think that the engine runs even better now, down to 15 p.s.i on air.
As It's not been run on steam I will have to make a displacement lubricator to fit on the steam line.
Lastly I had a piece of American Walnut that a joiner friend gave me to mount the engine on, it will be held down by Long round head self tappers.
I will post some pics of the lubricator when I make it.
George.
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Beautiful, George, just beautiful.
Geoff,
Thailand
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Gorgeous George, nice job on the plinth too. Jealous!
Jerry.
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Just fantastic that is such a nice job - now all you need to do is build a boat big enough to fit it in :-))
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A very nice outcome indeed George - a good looking 'package' all round. You should be well pleased with that result :-)) .
Ramon
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Bonjour George,
Will it propel a boat or... a shelf ? Such a powerful steam machine, based on my experience, should live (to my opinion of course) and the coupled water pump allows a smaller boiler with a strong burner for a good autonomy :-))
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A very nice outcome indeed George - a good looking 'package' all round. You should be well pleased with that result :-)) .
Ramon
Hi Ramon,
Yes I am very pleased with the engines running performance, this is the 4- D10 that I have built and I mentioned earlier the Mod that I made to the chuck on my Lathe which has allowed me to have a more accurately built engine.
Thanks for you comments.
George.
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Mark T
Raphael.
I don't intend to fit this engine into a boat as I already have a S.T.CERVIA at 42" long with a D10 engine that I built 2- years ago to replace a 10V, the Scotch marine boiler is 4.75" dia and as you can see from the pics it's a bit of a squeeze to get the engine and boiler into the hull.
This Tug is 40 years old and originaly started electricaly powered with a bus wiper motor, it lay up in the loft for many years until I retired and then I converted it to steam building the 10V and the boiler.
The problem with the 10V was the inability to get a 100% working reverse gear and after many trys with slip eccentric and other Heath Robinson devices to reverse it I made the D10 and now there are no broblems.
I am not very good at building boats but must confess that I did build a Clyde Puffer with a Cheddar Pintail steam plant, this bost was 33" long modelled on SKYLIGHT,no longer in my posetion.
I don't have such a great space of a workshop and I don't like sawdust on my machinery.
This engine that I have built will probably end up on E-Bay so sombody hopefuly will buy it and put it in a boat.
Thanks to both of you for your input.
George.
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Forgot to post the pics of the boat.
Just the lubricator to make now and it's job done.
George.
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Bonjour George,
Thank you again for your great job, hopefully people like you build then share, and for the pictures of your Cervia which is as small as my Jan (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utYZJDJPBVg) (1,20m, 21 kg).
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ZB02ZmKdhXqb6glwdaux9N0YLmDbW8-q0FQIV5IjS9c=w339-h190-p-no)
Just between you and I, without any commitment and in the respect of the rules of this forum, could you give me a price for this D10 with its pump ?
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Bonjour George,
Thank you again for your great job, hopefully people like you build then share, and for the pictures of your Cervia which is as small as my Jan (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utYZJDJPBVg) (1,20m, 21 kg).
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ZB02ZmKdhXqb6glwdaux9N0YLmDbW8-q0FQIV5IjS9c=w339-h190-p-no)
Just between you and I, without any commitment and in the respect of the rules of this forum, could you give me a price for this D10 with its pump ?
Raphael, I have sent you a P.M.
George.
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D10 COMPLETED.
Job done,
No 1
Lubricator is made from a piece of 5/8" dia brass.
The endis drilled and Tapped 3/16" x 40 x 5/16" deep and then drilled thro" 5/64" dia for 1/2".
No2.
The body is turned around in the chuck and drilled down 3/8" to 1/4" from the bottom breading thro" the 5/64" drain hole.
Body is tapped 7/16" x 26 t.p.i for 1/4' to take the top cap.
Using the boring tool shown in No 3 the inside is bored out to 1/2" dia but leaving the thread for the top cap untouched.
No 3,
Boring tool.
No 4
The lubricator cap is a simple turning job and when fiinished a fibre washer is fitted as a seal.
No 5.
The Needle control valve is made from a pice of 1/4" dia brass bar, the top slide set at 20 deg and the point is machined.
Turn down the full length to 5/32" dia and threaded 5/32 x 40 t.p.i.
Reduce the tip of the valve to 1/8" dia to give oil clearance into the Lubricator.
The end of the valve which is left at 1/4" dia has a 3.32" dia hole drilled and a piece of brass rod glued in.
The body to take the Needle valve unfortunately I didn't take any pics but it's made from a piece of 1/4" dia brass bar x 1.25" long,
Drill and bore straight thro" 5/64" dia.
Counter bore and tap 5/32" x 40 t.p.i. 9/16" deep and finish to 5/8" deep with "D" bit ,this give a sharp edge for the needle valve to bed.
While in this setting in the 3.jaw thread the end 1/4 x 32 t.p.i. x 3/16" long.
Take the job out and turn it around and thread the other end 1/4 x 32 t.p.i. x 1/2" long.
Before S/Soldering the valve box into the lubricator body machine down the part that will be inside the lubricator to 3/16" dia, this allows good access for the oil.
No 6.
Condensate driain valve which again is a simple turning job and I use a single knurled wheel tool to give grip when closing and openning valve.
The end of the drain is 3/16 x 40 t.p.i and the point is cut with the top slide at 30 deg.
No 7.
A drain hole is required in the clear machined part of the valve at 90 deg and then a 5/64" dia hole is drilled thro" to break into the 90 deg hole.
No 8.
All of the lubricator components before soldering in the 1/4" dia valve box.
No9
Completed Displacement Lubricator
No 10 .
Job done and lubricator fitted to the engine.
Last job will be to run the engine on steam, I shall see if my next door neighbours son can take a video of the steam test and post it on the forum ,if not y-tube.
Thanks everybody for looking in and your comments, I do hope that it's been of interest and will tempt somebody to have a go at maching a D10.
George.
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Looks wonderful George and thank you for the build as i am sure it will be a great reference for everyone contemplating similar
Cheers and good health :-))
John
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Well done George a lovely project well described and pictured, Thank you.
A question about the lubricator, I presume the oil is extracted by vacuum on inlet differential, but how is the air replaced as the oil level reduces in service runs?
Rod
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Well done George a lovely project well described and pictured, Thank you.
A question about the lubricator, I presume the oil is extracted by vacuum on inlet differential, but how is the air replaced as the oil level reduces in service runs?
Rod
Hi Rod.
The needle valve only needs to be openned a crack, the steam from the steam line enters the lubricator and it condenses to water in the bottom of the lubricator and as the oil floats on water the water pushes the oil up and out a small hole and into the steam feed line to the cylinders, the thinner the wall on the lubricator the better the condensation.
It only needs the valve to be openned about 1/4 turn to let a whisper of oil into the cylinders.
Here is a pic of the oil feed hole to the steam line which I neglected to show earlier, notice that the 1/4" dia rod used for the valve box is waisted and the small C/Sink hole lets the oil into the steam line.
Hope this answers your question
George.
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Thank you again George , well explained too.
Rod
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Hi George nice lubricator and next on my to do list, I have also built the boiler feed pump to your design and it works great ,only problem I have is It gets an air lock in the pump bore and once steam pressure is up the air lock will not move hence I have to dismantle the pump piston to fill the pump with water and it's fine ,any idea how to fix this ,I know the feed line should be free of air but sometime s the tank will run out ,I did think about a stop cock on the feed before the clack valve but open to suggestions
Cheers
John
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Hi George nice lubricator and next on my to do list, I have also built the boiler feed pump to your design and it works great ,only problem I have is It gets an air lock in the pump bore and once steam pressure is up the air lock will not move hence I have to dismantle the pump piston to fill the pump with water and it's fine ,any idea how to fix this ,I know the feed line should be free of air but sometime s the tank will run out ,I did think about a stop cock on the feed before the clack valve but open to suggestions
Cheers
John
Hi John,
I can't remember what sketch I sento you of a pump but all of the pumps that I have made have always worked.
I always push some clean water thro" the pump with a syringe before starting as the balls in the valve box can be dry after a layup especially if they are" Nitrile "
If you put a bypass valve on the line between the pump and the clack in the boiler if you open that on start up the pump should pass water overboard, shut the valve and any air locks should be pumped out of the system, close the valve and it should have the pressure to pump into the boiler at any pressure that we use, these little pumps easily pump up to 300 p.s.i.
If you are carrying water on board it's best to have a positve head of water, negative head can cause air in the line but the bypass valve should clear it.
Let me know how you get on.
George.
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FINISHED ENGINE.
Well guys that's the D10 finished I hope that it has been instructive.
Many thanks for all of your kind words.
Next project.
How about a Stuart SCORE engine ???
George.
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Thank you George for a thoroughly enjoyable conducted tour through your build. A lovely job and a fine testament to your skills.
:-)) :-)) :-))
Greg
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'Hear Hear' to that George - an excellent discourse throughout. A Score should follow that nicely too :-))
Looking forwards to it
Regards - Ramon
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Really enjoyed reading this post. Thanks for taking the time to write it up. The engine looks wonderful.
Ben
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Hi All,
As a complete newbie I found this thread by accident and am really glad I did. I bought a D10 on impulse, with zero knowledge and this was just what I needed to give me an insight into how it goes together.
Many thanks for your time and effort - well done.
Dok
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George,
I stumbled on this thread. I am adding a Reversing Gear setup to my D10.I share your feeling about using the straps in place of the rods/ends on the links.
Would you please be so kind as to provide me with the dimensions of the links and the distance between holes?
Thanks for providing the thread.
Regards,Jim PopeDenver, CO
USA
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George,
Ignore my request.
Another Senior Moment.
Just found the Link info in the thread, I had not read far enough.
Thanks again.
Jim Pope
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George,
Ignore my request.
Another Senior Moment.
Just found the Link info in the thread, I had not read far enough.
Thanks again.
Jim Pope
Hi Jim ,
Glad that you have found the page with the description, I was trying to send a scanned picture of the Drag links but the pic from my scanner doesn't come out as a jpg and I can't change it, that's why in my thread it's a pic from my camera which is jpg.
George.
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HI Jim,
After a computer lesson from my good lady wife I have been shown how to change the scanner pic to an acceptable
gif for the forum
So to see if I have it correct here is a better pic.
George.
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Hi Jim,
Just had a thought, if you are to install your D10 in a working boat with the Stevenson reverse gear can I suggest that you make the flywheel with a taper lock to the main shaft.
I have found in the past that with a large prop on a boat when at full power forward and an emergency stop is required and reverse is immediately selected if the flywheel is grub screwed to the shaft it it just tears a grove in the shaft and in the past to counter this I have drilled a hole in the shaft with a taper pin thro' the flywheel and the shaft.
All of the D10's that I have since built I make a taper lock sleeve.
Just a thought.
George.
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Nice work ooyah. Do you 'cone' the driveshaft as well(cone in a cone)? Or just use the cone compressed by flywheel via flywheel nut onto the standard crankshaft?
What size slit saw are you using? Hand cut or machine cut?
Thx
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George,
Thanks for all the tips. I really appreciate them and I am sure others do too.
In my case I have the full set of parts from Stuart for both the Reversing Gear and the Feed Pump.
And I am adding them after I built the original kit.
I just spent the better part of the weekend working on the eccentrics and sheaves.
I decided to use the 4-jaw method in order to match the original offsets from the
first set of eccentrics. If I was doing it over I would have used your 3-jaw method.
It took me over an hour to get things right!
My Mill and Lathe are Sherline, which has some advantages and also challenges for me.
I would be lost with put their DRO option, but sometimes wish they were just a little bit
larger.
Thanks again,
Jim
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Nice work ooyah. Do you 'cone' the driveshaft as well(cone in a cone)? Or just use the cone compressed by flywheel via flywheel nut onto the standard crankshaft?
What size slit saw are you using? Hand cut or machine cut?
Thx
If you go back to the first pic you can see that there are 3- parts The nut, taper sleeve and the tapered bored flywheel. I set the top slide at 5deg and machine the taper and bore the flywheel out on the same setting.
The taper sleeve goes into the flywheel and then on to the 9/32" dia shaft, a washer is fitted and then the nut which pulls the flywheel onto the taper sleeve and locks it in place.
The taper sleeve has 2- slots cut a t 90deg to each other with a new 32 t.p.i. hacksaw blade, this allows the taper sleeve to lock the flywheel on.
I use a Hacksaw as I don't have any Slit saws.
George.
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Hello George,
New to the forum and paying catch up. Just been following your build of a Stuart D10 which was of great interest as I built a D10 last year and recently added a water pump and reversing gear. Unlike yours, I followed the plans and agree with you that the proposed reversing linkage by Stuart's is very fiddly indeed and needs to be 'glued' (locktite) together which is not ideal. Your linkage is much better. It's also an arrangement Stuart's use in the Twin Launch & Compound Launch. Intend to change mine and follow your example. You will note that my D10 is fitted with a non-marine type fly wheel that came with the kit of castings, I intend to replace it for a disc wheel and employ your tapper fitting and remove present bed plate. Looking to put it into a suitable boat one day.
Photo 1 is the D10 as originally built and the subsequent ones show it in its present form now fitted with pump and reverse gear.
Regards
Ian
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Bonjour Ian,
For a future prject, I am the same step as you. A friend is enhancing for me a D10, we have ordered the reverse and the pump castings to Stuart. They quindly helped us because of the language barrier... Main diffreence with the original plan, a sheet of 1 mm brass for the side valve to protect it from rust and plugs on the cylinder head cover for oil after navigation.
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipM4BnMqLYY5sFxUWEQ6kG1n1a6IvvV5fWU_nnEsXtz8Quo_1DYGzAmD3OZ35WW6cPg?key=MlJoWVpuUFk5cTROVHF1MjJHbWhVS3J3VTJyRGxn
Then I will have to order the appropriate boiler...
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George,
(And anyone else)
Referring back to replay #97-98 on page 4.
I am adding a reversing set to my already running D10. So I have a set of eccentrics with bosses.
My spatial visualization is somewhat lacking these days. and I am trying to determine the orientation of the new
eccentrics in relation to the old.
So to paint a picture:
Each eccentric has a "lobe" - as the engine revolves the lobes move the sheaves up and down.
Easy without the reversing kit.
With the reversing setup in place, each cylinder now has a second lobe on the crankshaft.
They are offset by 120 degrees. I am trying to determine if the offset is in the same
direction for each cylinder. as the cylinders are "mirrored" in orientation.
So:
When rotating in a CW direction, when viewed from the flywheel, Cylinder1, closest to the flywheel,
has the "Bossed" outside eccentric lobe - leading the inside "new" eccentric lobe.
When you then turn the orientation of the engine so you are looking at the other end of the crank,
you are now rotating in a CCW direction.
Big question: Does the Bossed Eccentric Lobe on Cylinder 2 still LEAD or FOLLOW the lobe on the new eccentric?
---------
Same concept - but different view-
With the Eccentrics pinned together and the two sets side by side, are they identical in orientation?
or are they "Mirrored" ?
Hope this makes sense, I am at the point of drilling the holes for the pins and want to get my angles right.
Thanks again,
Jim Pope
Denver, CO
USA
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Hi Jim,
If you drill the 1/16" pin hole as per the drawing on the eccentric that has the boss ( 2- off )and the same as per the drawing for the eccentric without the boss ( 2- off ) it will become clear when you assemble them as long as you keep the eccentric with the boss to the out side.
On making the reverse gear I have always followed the drawing and never had any trouble.
George.
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George
Thanks for the reply.
Have you noticed that the drawing for original Boss eccentric has the 60 degrees measured from the center of the eccentric,
but that the add-on eccentric drawing shows the 60 degrees measured from the middle of the crank shaft?
I am assuming that both should be measured from the same point? but which one is correct?
Thanks,
Jim
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Yes Jim,
I noticed that and informed Stuart with no reply about 2 years ago, I use the dimension from the shaft C.L. on the eccentric without the boss.This is taken from the actual drawing for the D10 & 10V reverse gear, so do the same on the eccentric with the boss.
My apologies I should have mentioned that but it's a few years now since my last D10 build.
George.