Model Boat Mayhem
Technical, Techniques, Hints, and Tips => Tutorials & "How To’s" ... => Topic started by: para_handy on June 08, 2015, 02:56:41 pm
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how is the best way to secure wheelhouse so it can be easily accessed
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I assume you mean removed for access? Build a coaming on deck at least 1/4" tall around the inside profile of your superstructure and a good fit. You can then just pull off the wheelhouse and the coaming helps prevent water getting inside the boat.
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do you not need any type of fixing to secure it
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If the coaming on the deck is continuous, at least 1/4" high, and a good slide-on fit, you shouldn't need any fixings. The superstructure should fit snuggly like the lid of a box.
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small rare earth magnets ( 2mm diameter approx 1mm thick ) one at each corner will hold it in place , sounds too small BUT magnets that size can pick up my glasses with ease so more than strong enough to keep the casin attached ( especially up in the Blue Toon at the Lido !!)
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Personally I would never rely on a push fit superstructure. I have seen too many become dislodged over the years due to collisions or simply because the boat has been tossed about in rough conditions resulting in the sinking of the model. It can be disconcerting to see how easily an apparently snugly located superstructure can pop off if the hull is bashed by another boat or the model gets tossed about in a chop as I saw at one Mayhem meeting a while back.
It is very simple to provide a mechanical fixing with a bit of ingenuity. My Deans Medea steam yacht has a tiny hole drilled through the foremast into the superstructure face into which I push a dressmaker's pin. A similar arrangement at the back of the superstructure using a securely mounted deck ventilator fixes the after end in place.
Coamings are also very desirable to stop water on deck finding its way below but I would not rely on them to keep the superstructure in place.
Magnets are OK up to a point but if you have ones sufficient to really fix the superstructure in place then it needs a bit of a wrench to break the connection which is generally not kind to delicate fittings etc.
Photos below show a push fit superstructure being tossed off in choppy conditions.
Colin
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PARA.........that scenario shown above seldom happens, because the majority of people sailing boats hardly ever put them into water like that, unless they are brave or foolish.......and either way they should have made the combings tighter fit.....In fact the majority of model sailors that I have come across at club meetings won't even get their boat out of the car if there is a hint of rain, never mind a wind above force 2.
I have sailed on probably the roughest man made lake in this country, Fleetwood, in all sorts of weather with all sorts of boats,........my caldercraft puffer was run down by an 8'6" Battle class destroyer, and just bobbed up like a cork............because I made the combing of substantial height..........anything between 20 -25mm high from the deck, and a fit like a latex glove.........and never had a top blow off........
In fact in the 50 years I have been watching and sailing at Fleetwood in all weathers, have never seen a superstructure blow off or washed off yet........no magnets, no screws ,....no fittings, just a good combing rising FROM THE DECK , ( not vice versa......i.e. glued to the superstructure and sliding down into the deck orifice.....that's just courting disaster) with a superstructure tightly slotting over it..................and I have built a few models in my time. %% %%
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Horrendous ................... <:(
An excellent tip Colin. I shall "pin" mine immediately. :-))
Cheers
ken
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Neil,
People can be caught out. The pics above were taken at an MPBA Scale Final at Wicksteed Park. The conditions on the course were fine until a squall suddenly came through and piled up a sudden vicious chop at the narrow end of the pond which amplified the effect as the waves bounced off the concrete. I think three boats went down and mine only just reached the bank half full of water from being tossed on its beam ends. Those boats not on that part of the course managed to avoid it.
No, it doesn't happen often but it's like putting a fuse in your electrics, unlikely you will need it but if you do then it will save you a lot of grief. A few years back I saw a hovercraft at Beale Park run smack into a scale boat knocking the superstructure right off, both the boat and upperworks instantly disappeared into around 30 feet of murky water. Had the superstructure been firmly attached the boat would have been damaged but probably not sunk.
GRP and plastic hulls have a tendency to temporarily deform if struck and not adequately supported inside and this can be enough to 'pop' off the superstructure.
Anyway, all I am saying is that this is what I do for a bit of extra peace of mind so where is the harm in doing that? As far as others are concerned it is just a suggestion to consider so no need to rubbish it. If you run a small model then there often isn't room for a high coaming inside anyway.
Colin
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Hi Colin, I like your method. I lost a top in a colision years ago. If something can go wrong, it will.
Chas
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I remember that happening, that freak weather squall claimed the most model boats to be sunk at Wicksteed in one day!
My Dad's submarine superstructure is bolted on and it's a surface runner, a lot of my boats are the slot on style superstructures however the big difference that they are all quite big models and the superstructures are quite heavy and big so it requires a massive shock to move them off.
I'm now learning that smaller scales require a different way of thinking especially on my new build which has four access hatches that are flush but need to be water tight and not easy to fall off.
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My models are normally on the small side so are more vulnerable to coming off worse in a collision. Also, being small, the topsides tend to be pretty lightweight which is another reason to ensure they are secure. As raflaunches says, the bigger the model the less the chance of the top coming off but if the model is flung about too much then inertia can still give a nasty surprise. (No, not you Dave!)
Colin
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The simplest and cheapest way is ALLWAYS the best......use an old fasioned net curtain track holder you all know the oln the old Question mark screw...and use an elastic band there will be plenty around the floor around outside your houses dropped by your frendly postperson.......never had one fall off using this method and cheap as chips to replace
Dave
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Comments - Please do post off topic discussions here on Mayhem - Admin
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I think the comments about coamings were very relevant to the topic, especially the experience of the Scottish lads sailing open lochs ...................and as |I have had much experience of building myself especially with coamings................why has this post been lifted.........it was most helpful to others.
ARE WE NO LONGER ABLE TO DISCUSS OTHER PERSONS COMMENTS ANYMORE???
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On that matter, No.
If you have issues with another person or company, take it up with them direct, not here on Mayhem.
Admin
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The comments I was referring to martin, were those about flexing hulls, combings and other technical points which could allow a superstructure to pop off...........nothing more............and experience counts.
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Repost that part please Neil.
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Repost that part please Neil.
nah, sorry Martin, can't be bothered.....shouldn't have been removed in the first place..............life's far to short to re iterate especially when others think they know more than me and yet never show any evidence of it other than what they read........I have seen absolutely no practical knowledge or experience imparted to others ever, and yet you want me to go over mine again.sorry, but the word pants comes to mind.
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Photos below show a push fit superstructure being tossed off in choppy conditions.
Colin
How on earth did that get through the 'Big Brother' word censorship board?!?! ok2
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One will always slip through.
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One will always slip through.
As the Bishop said to the Actress.... (no relation ok2)
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I take Neil's point about a decent-sized coaming, but 25mm is not always practical on models where, for example, there are glazed panels close to the deck which would be obscured from the inside - or where there isn't 25mm between the deck and the cabin roof! I don't sail my models in choppy conditions so I don't make any special provision for holding down the superstructure. I think it's a matter for common sense - and magnets, elastic bands, pins and anything else a fertile imagination can contrive.
As for things getting past censors, I'm given some succour by the fact that it still happens..................... ;D
(Yes - I still remember......)
DM
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As Dave says, don't sail a given model if it's too windy or choppy for it. I check the BBC Weather for wind strengths etc, and rain. My smaller ships have rare earth magnet hatches which work well if you balance hold-down against pull to get them off, but only used in 10 mph winds or less due to their size. Medium size with good freeboard I use up to 15 mph. Much over 15 mph I won't risk choppy seas. My Springer is the most sea resistant, up to 18 in practice, and that has a very deep coaming with a nice tight fit superstructure.
at 1/96 scale 11.5 mph is equivalent to a hurricane.
PS: Magnets can be really solid if the right size and quantity used, ensuring metal to metal unpainted contact.
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I certainly have no issues with high coamings and substantial superstructures on larger models but, as Dave says, they are not always practical on smaller boats such as my Deans Medea Steam Yacht kit for example. So it's horses for courses really. My suggestion is simply a practical belt and braces solution that is effective on small to medium models and costs nothing to do.
As far as hull distortion is concerned, kits are produced down to a price and the smaller ones often don't have all the internal reinforcement that 'gurus' with 50 years of 'experience' would think desirable. People build them out of the box in accordance with the instructions but a bang on a small model can indeed 'ping' the hull and maybe even pop joints if the right adhesive hasn't been used. I usually reinforce mine, having the required 50 years of experience(!), but most people will quite reasonably follow the manufacturer's instructions which should produce a perfectly serviceable model but not one that is built to be rammed!
I don't think anyone sets out to run their boat in marginal conditions but it is still easy to be caught out. It might be calm by the bank but when you venture further out on the lake the model could be caught by a gust of wind and if it is a bit 'tender' then you can suddenly find yourself in trouble. It's the same with full size sailing. You can be on a reach with wind over tide and perfectly comfortable without realising that the wind is slowly increasing but then you need to turn and maybe the tide has changed and you suddenly find yourself in quite a nasty situation. Experience reduces the risk but does not prevent it altogether.
Experienced or not, everyone can be caught out or make a mistake, none of us are perfect!
Colin
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As DM has just reminded me, rubber bands.
My hatches have a very small coaming (6mm). There is a small screw eye in the keel, with a rubber band looped through, and a small cup hook attached to the bottom of the hatch covers (the green ones in the pic) . This works very well, even in quite steep waters.
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Dave also mentions the problem if glass panels are close to the deck. I worked around this for my port holes, but it may not always be suitable, for example if you have lots of squared windows.
With mine I cut down the high coaming, where the portholes would be, and then covered this will a clear plastic strip to reduce/eliminate ingress from that point.
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What useful ideas has anyone got for sealing deck openings in flat decks?
Not you Ken!!! :kiss: {-)
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By Jove, Mr Perry - that's devilish cunning!
DM
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Tiger Tiger maybee you should go to specsavers it was ME and not Dm who said about the rubber bands FIRST lol
Dave....stirring AGAIN
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The simplest and cheapest way is ALLWAYS the best......use an old fasioned net curtain track holder you all know the oln the old Question mark screw...and use an elastic band there will be plenty around the floor around outside your houses dropped by your frendly postperson.......never had one fall off using this method and cheap as chips to replace
Dave
:-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-)) :-))
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Tiger Tiger maybee you should go to specsavers it was ME and not Dm who said about the rubber bands FIRST lol
Dave....stirring AGAIN
Ha! Sorry Dave, you completely confused me with the curtain track thingy dropped by the postman. I said I got confused.
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What useful ideas has anyone got for sealing deck openings in flat decks?
Not you Ken!!! :kiss: {-)
You could try to adapt the idea in the picture.
If you didn't want to use screws, you could still use rubber bands to hold the hatch down. You would need some sort of sealing, perhaps a bead ( or thick smear) of silicone or rubberised sealant (or draft excluder) left to dry before the hatch is closed.
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Comment removed - Admin
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If you don't want any visible screws you can always use the magnets mentioned earlier they are fantastic and come in all different sizes. Then use a waterproof tape as a seal. The piece will just lift when pulled.
i used to fix aircraft engine nacelles with them and believe me when I say some of the bumpy landings I did didn't manage to remove them so they must be good. The bigger magnets even come with a warning not to let one jump to attach itself to another as the power could smash them. U2
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For flush hatches that can be screwed down most of the time I have bought some of this stuff which looks as if it will be quite useful:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0085EAV2A?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00
It's marked as unavailable from Amazon at the moment but I imagine there are other suppliers.
Colin
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:-)) Got some in poundland the other week Colin,quite good for sealing superstructure and the like, as for securing rubber bands and curtain hooks works very well and is cheap as chips,I learnt this lesson many years ago when a gust caught the roof of a cabin cruiser I had and it took ages to recover from the lake,Ray. :-))
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Does it repel or absorb water? U2
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The stuff I got is neoprene closed cell foam and should be completely waterproof. (Same stuff as used in wetsuits and drysuits) I don't know what the spec of the Poundland stuff is.
Colin
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Worth searching for is the MIL spec neoprene, used for numerous military applications. Costs a little more than £ Shops, but well worth the proverbial ha'p'ny worth of tar extra
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;) Colin,you can bet it is not as good but I have used it before and it is still OK after 18 months that's why I bought some more,the draft excluder tape is OK too and double sided which is handy,I don't buy much in poundland most is tack but 1 or 2 thing are useful so if it only lasts a few months cheap enough to replace, Ray. ;)
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Topic tided up and renamed.
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Yes, I like to have a look round Poundland too, if I had seen it there I would probably have bought it but have been stuck indoors with a foot problem for a bit so have been browsing Amazon instead!
With my small models I tend not to open them up at the pondside if I can avoid it except for a little hatch to check for any water ingress. Getting the top off my Medea model means swinging out the lifeboat davits and detaching bits of rigging etc. which is a recipe for damaging the model on the bank. It's just too easy to be a bit clumsy and knock something off or bend the mast etc. When I get it home I do remove the superstructure in the safety of my workshop and ensure everything is dry and lubricated ready for next time.
Colin
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Tigertiger nice pics of your boat, nice boat too!
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Thank you.
She is a modified Mary J Ward kit from Victor Models in the USA.
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For sealing hatches on a flat deck. Important to allow for the thickness of the sealing strip. Something that may become obvious afterwards {:-{
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Hi guys, if you check out my Damen build http://www.modelboatmayhem.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,42633.100.html about 6 posts down is a picture of my preferred method, there is a storm hatch that screws on like a sub might have then a decorative hatch that locates with magnets, not shown in the picture is the rubber seal but that would sit where the screws are.
Phill
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IF you want to add a combing to a flat deck there is another method.. you can make a rebated double coving to which to hatch slides into.. i just recently finished my latest sail boat.. which has that coving. although the coving stands above the deck by 5mm in this case there is no reason why the coving can't be achieved to give you a flat deck, it will however cost you internal depth space, and may not be appropriate if you have limited internal height.
There is no ''set rule'' on coving heights, all that's required is a tight fit and ther ability to keep water out, even the highest covings can lead to the loss of a wheel house or hatch if its a loose fit! The next few images show my new yachts and the coving depth is only 4mm and the boat has been drowned with no water ingress even after a 2 hour choppy race, the lid is a tight fit but can easily be removed with finger nail. Secured down with stainless steel screws which seal the securing holes.
Other methods are shallow covings, with high strength magnets to keep the hatch down , or the use of a pair of hooks one inside the boat, the other to the superstructure, and linked w a rubber band.
(http://i19.servimg.com/u/f19/15/73/75/95/we_nip10.jpg)
(http://i19.servimg.com/u/f19/15/73/75/95/wee_ni12.jpg)
(http://i1044.photobucket.com/albums/b446/Tow_Chief/iPhone%20photos/11196591_10203833527628102_1266477343_o_zpsfcamegpo.jpg)
(http://i1044.photobucket.com/albums/b446/Tow_Chief/Snowberry/445BF8F4-2A62-46B6-A98C-3726D1F9D963_zpsgvsmhopu.jpg)
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Nice marquetry!
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Thanks Martin,
Although in this case for the boat was built up using Parquetry not marquetry as i didn't do a veneered inlay for the model its a build up of wooded pieces and planks. (gave me material to work with to get a perfectly smooth surface so i could obtain that shine on the varnish)
full blog can be seen here... http://www.thercmodelboatforum.com/t887-wee-nip-build#9580
(http://i1044.photobucket.com/albums/b446/Tow_Chief/random%20photos/052D8969-0318-4D03-8982-D3EF920E19B8_zpsldprwdfd.jpg)
(http://i1044.photobucket.com/albums/b446/Tow_Chief/random%20photos/E281F4B7-22D2-4E8A-BE68-4B6C5752A83A_zpsx6ifac62.jpg)
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heres also other flush decks.. the coaming for those is nothing more then a thin shelf which the hatch lays upon, still no water ingress from running the models, and they run VERY fast, the hatches are 'sprung fit' which is that the coming is pressured downwards when the hatch is fitted and locked into place with a underside latch over the bulk head, this pressure fit requires no foam sealer, nothing its wood on wood contact under pressure, i should point out that the coaming itself is only 2mm wide and the hatch is 2mm thick ok2
(http://i1044.photobucket.com/albums/b446/Tow_Chief/IMG_20140330_175748_zpsd3fba64b.jpg)
(http://i1044.photobucket.com/albums/b446/Tow_Chief/IMG_20140330_175708_zps5cd8d620.jpg)
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What a beautiful finish as well. Looks great.
Colin
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I aim to please ok2
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Beautiful work, no wonder it doesn't leak !!! Who made the window casings ?!!!
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A coaming of whatever size you wish plus a couple of pins through superstructure and coaming Simples !
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The simplest and cheapest way is ALLWAYS the best......use an old fasioned net curtain track holder you all know the oln the old Question mark screw...and use an elastic band there will be plenty around the floor around outside your houses dropped by your frendly postperson.......never had one fall off using this method and cheap as chips to replace
Dave
Crackin idea :-)